Originally Posted by Heath

I tired looking up on the internet about if jews are in Islam and I still don't understand why you would want to be in Islam, I mean I can understand you want to be in Islam for the spiritual aspect of it but the Quran is very clear on many different things which leave no doubt as to where the Quran stands on the issue of the Christians and the Jews. I also have been studying the Quran and I have the Quran at home which I got free through the mail also I got some another religious textbooks from different religions to study with.

This is the one I am looking at:

! Jews for Allah ** Jews for Allah !

Originally Posted by Yiffzer

So, tell me where the Qur'an stands on the topics of Jews and Christians.

-Kahyr.

Originally Posted by Heath

I have not really read anymore about the Christians and the Jews in the Quran. I am more focused on warfare and military matters in the Quran. I know the Quran says for the muslims to not make friends with the Christians and the Jews. After 9/11/01 happened I started to look for answers from the Quran in order to understand the new enemy that America now faces.

That is why I was surprised that a jew, of all people would want to embrace Islam.

I have seen both sides of the violent and the non-violent Christianity core beliefs put into practice or action.

I never met a jew who wanted to embrace Islam. Never ever happened before.

I also don't see how I can become a muslim and that is okay because that is something I can't picture or see in my mind being islamic.

I know I should not be shocked or be reacting with shock but I really am shocked and the more I think about it, the more baffling it gets for me and I would be lying if I said I was not shocked, when I am truly shocked.

Originally Posted by Yiffzer

Heath, I have said to John (Fierynaga) that you should not take verses out of context. It will make them appear wrong and misleading. Also, it depends on the translation of the Qur'an you have. I use not just one but several to ensure balanced checks to make sense of the verses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahyr
In the Qur'an, God has explained how to read the Qur'an. The Qur'an explained that the Qur'an must be read entirely from the beginning to the end so that it makes even more sense. The Qur'an says every verse in every chapter must be recited together as if it was one whole entity and not separated.
Please make sure you understand this to the fullest. With that said, here is the verse (taken from the translation of Dr. Rashad Khalifa):

"O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors." (5:51)

This verse has nothing to do with treating Jews and Christians like enemies. It speaks of specific Jews and Christians that befriends with other disbelievers. Note that it speaks of those that transgress. Read on:

"Your real allies are GOD and His messenger, and the believers who observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they bow down." (5:55)

This explains that the true allies are God and His messenger, not the Jews and Christians. It could be perceived as to not rely on the Jews and Christians for spiritual help. Read on:

"O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers. When you call to the Contact Prayers (Salat), they mock and ridicule it. This is because they are people who do not understand." (5:57-58)

God also clarifies that those certain Jewish and Christians are those that mock and ridicule you. Most certainly you would not consider them your ally, regardless if they were the people of the scriptures. You would not consider them your ally if they try to convince you that their religion is better. Such and so on.

Now, to prove that God actually commands Muslims to respect the Jews and Christians, it goes before 5:51. Read on:

"We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers." (5:44)

This confirms that God has sent the Torah among the Jews. Read on:

"Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous. The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked." (5:46-47)

This confirms that God has sent the Gospel among the Jews and Christians. Read on:

"Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations to you. Do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you from some of GOD's revelations to you. If they turn away, then know that GOD wills to punish them for some of their sins. Indeed, many people are wicked." (5:48-49)

And finally, the religion of Islam which now supersedes the Jewish and Christian religion, God commands the Muslims to believe. As you read throughout all these verses, you will understand that God expects the Muslims to believe the previous scriptures as well. That means they must respect the Jews and Christians as well.

I apologize for the long post. It is very enlightening as you read and examine through this short section of the Qur'an. Much wisdom comes to you ever flowing. Thank you.

-Kahyr.

Originally Posted by Heath

Teresh, keep up with the fancy high snobbish intellectual, I am better than thou talk and you will lose friends really fast. You really don't know what you are talking about, really. You also live in an acamedic world and I live in the real world.

Originally Posted by CyberRed

[COLOR=DarkRed]
Exodus 20:3-6

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Originally Posted by Reba

No, it isn't. It is a perversion of Judaism and Christianity.

If Allah is the same as God, then why would the Muslims need the Koran? Why wouldn't they just use the Bible?

Originally Posted by Aleser

I was raised in a Christian household. Why don't I "just read the bible?"

It trods all over women.
It tells me that If I'm raped, I must -marry- the man who raped me and don't have a say in the matter. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
It forbids me from speaking up in my place of worship. (1 Corinthians 14:35)
It says that if I have a -male- child, I'm a filthy pig for a week, but if it's a
female, I've got a whole two weeks going against me. (Leviticus 12:1-5)
I am inherently -less- because of Eve.

All are not equal.

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

which bibles, you read?

As far as I know in Islamic countries, women are being rape, is punish to death as "charge with adultery" and also charge with murder as well if women kill their attackers to defend themselves where non-islamic countries doesn't. This is neglect women's rights...

Originally Posted by Yiffzer

My, my, I'm surprised. Teresh is the only person in this thread who's fairly knowledgeable of Islam (and dare I say I'm impressed by her knowledge). Everyone else is seeking to attack Islam without understanding it. All these allegations have been made popular by a couple of sites that speak anti-Islamic rhetorics.

I've already refuted Heath and other members of these rather pathetic accusations of Islam at Deaf Summit.