hottiedeafboi

Well, what Cain as a farmer and Abel as a shepherding is not God focal point. Its a sacrifice. God gave them guideline to show them how to receive God's forgiveness. Its start with Adam where Cain and Abel been taught what Adam been taught by God. Since the fall of Adam and Eve, bec sin destroyed there fellowship with God. His holiness is like clorox and our sins are like bacteria, like clorox kills bacteria same as His holiness destroys sin. We are stain by sin. Then how to get rid of it? The blood of the lamb. Veg and fruit doesn't. Sin remains. That's how thru the old testament showed about the coming of Messiah. Its not how faithful or how we try to live up to make God happen, sins remains. That's why in geneaology came about as the time comes, God chosen virgin Mary, as Jesus gave up His glory to come down to become human like us, but no sin in Him. That's how Joseph thought Mary must ve slept with someone else. Now, not the christians, but some of the religion believe God has sex with Mary, which is not true. He came here to die so we can have access to the Father. Jesus is a Sacrificial Lamb to draw us to Him. His blood once for all our sins been forgiven, past, present and future. Its for all mankind. That's who we believe. And its beautiful message of Go's love which no other have. That's the point about Cain and Abel. Its not God favors Abel bec of shepherding and Cain is the farmers has to do with Go's favor, and God honors both and pleased. Problem is Cain doesn't do what he has been taught to do. Sin took strong hold again Cain that lead him jealousy and murdering.

Deafness

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Askjo

Because the atheists have their own religion.

There are 3 kinds of worship: A) worship in spirit; B) worship at a stone; C) worship in nothing.

The Bible warns that the atheists do not like to keep "God" in their knowledge because the Bible shows that they DENIED Him.

The simple explanation is that they used "God" to say against, but the question is: WHY did they use "God" during the communication between them and other people. For example, an atheist told his friend, "I do not believe in God." Where did he take God's name? From this atheist's knowledge in his mind according to the Scripture. Suppose you ponder yourself. When your mind pops up, "God" in your mind is that is what the Scripture talks of.

RedFox

Atheists may or may not have a religion. Certain types of Buddhism do not treat Buddhas as gods and atheism is possible with Taoism and with certain liberal Quakers. And there are atheists who do not follow those or other religions. Worship in nothing means no religion because worshipping is one important part of what a religion is.

Where in the bible is this? What is mean by denied? If denying a god means making a positive claim that the god does not exist, that can be called strong or positive atheism. What about weak atheism? It is simply not believing in any gods without making any claims about their existence or nonexistence.

Before that meaning of weak atheism is confused with agnostism, the meaning of agnostism I use is saying that there is no way of knowing if a god existed or not. Theism and atheism are words I use about having beliefs or no beliefs about gods and agnostism is the word I use for the claim that no epistemology about gods is possible.

If denying a god means rebelling against a god one believes actually exists, then the people doing that are not atheists, but theists who believe that they are rebelling against a god whose existence they believe in. It is impossible to rebel against something that one does not believe in. I don't believe in Zeus. Does that mean I'm rebelling against Zeus?

What meaning of denying god are you using and where in the bible is it mentioned?

Do you mean that if somebody says the name of a god, like God, they know that the god exists and if they say they don't believe in that god, they're rebels against that god? Is that what the scripture is talking of?

I can say that I do not believe in Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Amun-Ra, Chac, Ahura-Mazda, Inti, Mani, Aonghus, Maui, Shango and any of the countless other gods that had been worshipped worldwide over thousands of years. Where did those names come from? Of course, they're from the people who believe in those gods. They didn't pop into my head from another realm. Similarly, I know of how Christians use God to refer to their god because I learned of that usage from the believers. Having that in my head does not make me believe that particular god is real in the same way knowing the names of all of those gods I listed does not mean that I believe in them or that they are real.

Atheists tell believers that they do not believe in the believers' gods so that the believers would know of the atheists' nonbelief, not because they are rebelling against a god that they know exists. Of course, that would make them theists, not atheists.

It seems to me that some believers think this way so that they would see everybody, including people who claim to be atheists, as theists with some being rebels and others not being rebels. The believers themselves are theists, so that what they are comfortable with. Those theists could be projecting their theism onto everybody, including atheists, because they are uncomfortable with the thought that there are people who actually have NO beliefs in ANY gods. They would rather see atheists as theists who are rebelling.

hottiedeafboi

Well, either people believes or not believe God, will stand before Him no matter waht.tho, noone can make them to believe, but that's not mean they will escape God, bec there is no where to hide from Him. Well, Book of Romans explained, that people has no excuse by not believing there is God, because of creations. And Book of Pslams says fools says there is no God.

guido

If I were sent to hell because I found it absurd to believe in an all-knowing, all-powerful, invisible being that refuses to give us physical, material proof of his existance, I'd be pretty pissed off at him. Wouldn't you?

Also, its not as simple as "you believe in God, or you don't." Why do fundamentalist always try to paint in black and white? Agnosticism is a whole belief devoted to the unknowability (I doubt that's a real word) of God's existance.

hottiedeafboi

I know. Remember, God did not send people to hell. Hell should be a place for Satan and demons. But people made a choice, and God gave them opportunity, that is Grace thru Jesus Christ. Satan works so hard to blind them and misleading so many people to fall different categories of religions or atheist or any kinds. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. The problem is His Holy and we are sinful. So Jesus took our place upon Himself to pay our sin debt in full. But many chose the other way try to live up God's approval. I know as of hell message isn't comfortable way to share that. Jesus been pointing out and disciples thought noone will ever make it to heaven, bec all of us sinned till Jesus said ANYONE wants to come to Me, I will not turn my back on them. Only Jesus is our Hope.

Liebling:-)))

Askjo will disagree to this.

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Liza

Im not an atheist but I'm not into worshipping deities or a deity. I think its sad that some people have the attitude - "oh they'll go to hell cos they are rebels or dont believe in God!"... I would think at least they would pray for those they feel to be in need. That'd be a kindness. I know my mother does.

Maria

I want to remind you that Jesus did warned to people about Hell. He even accounted about one rich man who refused to feed the poor. The poor man named " Lazarus " when he was laid on the street and he was very hungry and sick. The dogs licked his sores before he died.
Both of them, the rich and poor men died on the same day and, one of them went to paradise and the other went to hell.

Jesus warned about Hell several times in the bible. How come it offends to some people about Hell when it's necessary for them to know what's out there when they died, if without Christ as their personal Saviour ?

Hell is somethin' that people need to know. Same thing about Heaven, people need to know, too.

MorriganTait

I wouldn't much care for that either. If hell is a real place, I'd like to think you have to try pretty hard to get ther. Doesn't seem fair that average human behavior would be enough to send us into eternal damnation.


very interesting way of looking at it.

hottiedeafboi

Cyber, I'm not sure if you understand my saying, what you said is true. The point is about Lazarus and rich man. Lazarus choose God's view and rich man choose his own way and comapring his life with others. See, God didn't send him there, rich choose his way thinking he's better than anyone else. All of us made the choice what it will be, admit, I'm a sinner and ask Christ to save or I'm good enough, and don't need Jesus, or say I just believe Jesus and go to church is sufficience. That's the matter of choice. Yes, like I said, Jesus pointing out about hell and described all kinds of people, as disciples was down, thinking no way we are going to heaven til Jesus said, with God, all thing iis possible. How? Only God's plan for slavation to all mankind. Bec everything we do or try is shorten the achievement, just like it said "all men sinned and missed the mark, but only salvation is thru Jesus alone".

XBGMER

I don't believe in hell nor heaven since I know DAVID was the knigdom of Israel. He never told his people that his baby go to heaven.. but his word made clearly to me, He said, "his baby son can't return to him, but he shall go to him". He, Him which mean is the person.. I believe that the person shall go to the person will be reincarnate flesh and blood again after the death..

Rose Immortal

I do try to pray for those I think are in spiritual distress. I don't want people to be in pain.

People's reasons for unbelief are only known to God, and I have to believe He looks at that. I don't know what He decides, but I kind of think it has to be case-by-case unlike the blanket judgments people love to make. God knows who goes to Hell and Heaven. I do not and I dare not say because we are warned not to pass judgment. I have seen too many times the terrible effects such behavior has on both the accuser and the victim, enough to confirm the wisdom of that warning.

Liebling:-)))

Simple question:

Can the bible protect us?

Should we follow what the Bible says?

Should the bible decide for us?

Should we let the bible tell us what to do?

Should I follow the bible because an author wrote his/her opinion?

Do bible is the responsible to take care of people?

Should I do what an autor of the bible say?


All what I say is: I thank God and Jesus to give me strength to cope with my life.

Jesus and God GIVE us freedom to have our own choice/decision what we have in our life. I don't beleive that God & Jesus would like us to follow what they wants because they are kind of respectful people who respect us what we are.

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jazzy

I am confuse with ur personal belief. Umm okay I have question for u, u said u believe in God and Jesus not the bible. Ummm so how do u learn about God and Jesus? who taught u about God? People did not know God unless someone told them about God, right?

Y

Hiiii Liebling... Wow, I love your simple questions
because they helped me to think of simple answers
and because I recently have been going through
some difficult times myself and I think I understand
what you mean...

Simple Answers: Just Have Faith and Hope.

NOTE: For a very very long time, I did NOT understand
Faith and Hope only because I did NOT have
any Faith/Hope for years !!! I just recently
started to do my own research/exploration
on my own personal journey. That's exactly
what I've been doing lately...

I just copy the statement from a good Christian book:

"Hope is the foundation on which Faith is built"

Reba

Another simple question:

Can Man protect us?

Should we follow what Man says?

Should Man decide for us?

Should we let Man tell us what to do?

Should I follow Man because an author wrote his/her opinion?

Is Man responsible to take care of people?

Should I do what Man says?

Liebling:-)))

I think you didn´t read the whole the thread here.

Simple is: I´m an Agnostic, not atheist.

I beleive God and Jesus, not the bible. Sometimes I doubt either God exist or not.

Yes I learn from school and other religion beliefs about God and Jesus. I read the bible stories... I didn´t know about scriptures until JW taught me. I thought the bible is from God´s word until I learn many things from this forum... I realized that the bible is not God´s word but human author.

The reason I create a thread here because I want to find out either I´m an atheist or not.

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Liebling:-)))

Is it author of the bible, you talking about? If yes... My answer is No.


I already said in my previous post:

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VamPyroX

We could look at it this way.

Religious fanatics rather believe in the Bible with their eyes closed. Atheists rather open their eyes and believe in what they see.

A man is walking and carrying a backpack with him. Suddenly, a gunshot is heard and that man falls down. OMG! He's shot! Everyone rushes to check on him. Wait! He's okay! Apparently, the bullet didn't get to him. It was stopped by a Bible that he had in his backpack! Praise the Lord! God was watching over him! Hooray!

Now, let's look at this from a different point of view. What if this man was carrying a phone book instead of a Bible? The effects would be the same. What would people say then? "Oh, dude... you're lucky! Wow, that phone book caught the bullet for you! Whew!" In other words, he was just lucky... no mention of God's involvement.

So, in this case... people are being realistic. To me, a bullet was stopped by a book... Bible, phone book, any book... that's all that matters to me. I'm not going to start "Praising the Lord" if that particular book was a Bible. It's still a book. In other words, that person was just lucky.

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Y

Dear Vamp,
I love to read your comments/opinion and stand up
whatever you believe or think etc...

I think I understand what you mean about close and open eyes....

I was so much alike you before, because I did NOT really
understand Faith and because I did NOT have any Faith
I used to say same thing that I prefer to see first before
I can believe something...

Open eyes mean No Faith.

Close eyes mean Lot of Faith.

Thats why I have changed my views going through
my personal journey.

I am not interested in insult you, but I just want
to make a point that if you prefer to see before believe,
that means you have No Faith.

I just want to share with you... thats all....

Maria

I do understand you. Without Christ in heart as personal Saviour, one could go straight to hell without a second chance. Remember what Jesus said ... that one who wants to gain from this world will lose life after death.... or the other hand He said that one who wants to gain nothin' from this world will gain life after death by believin' in Christ ?

Maria

Exactly ! That's what I've asked her earlier in my post. I want to know the same thing, too.

jazzy

U don't sound alike agnostic for one u believe in God and Jesus. Nor ur atheist either. I used to be agnostic till He came to me one night and changed my life forever. I can not denied God for He had showed me many things happened in bible. bible is true for one He is the author and He used human beings to write it. I have seen God can do things no one ever can do it. He showed me He died on cross, very painful experience for me to witness His death. I know now He is real and the bible He send the messages thru men to show who God is real. Without a word, we are wandering pointless in life. He has power no human being can do any of things alike create us in first place and universal. He is very clever and hide from us till we ask for Him.

Jws are not agnostic if you follow thier religion? I met many of them, they are very nice and I like them but I believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit which they don't believe in.

jazzy

jazzy

I don't know but I have seen His works among us, so none of us really see it unless He opened up on u and let u see His works. I do not believe in luck.

RedFox

It is possible to be both an agnostic and a Christian if the word agnostic means one says whatever gods exist or do not exist is unknowable. Somebody could say that and still have faith that there is a god, even if there is no way to know for sure. I know somebody who says that he is an agnostic Christian.

Saying that somebody won't see a god's work in the world until the god opens up to that person and that the god hides from people unless they ask for communication and a relationship with the god does not make sense. If one had to believe in a god to see what the god does and to talk with the god, it could be said that the requirement of believing makes people be biased towards interpreting things and thoughts as actions and communications with the god. The claimed need to believe first automatically produces this bias. The bias can get so strong that it feels and looks real. It acts as a filter to discard other possiblities.

Saying that god is real because things happen that no human could do also does not make sense. It is an agruement from ignorance. It is jumping to saying that a god did those things without ruling out other things. There are plenty of things able to do things no human can do. The Earth, a big ball of inanimate matter, has things like earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes and tornadoes. The former two are powered from the inside and the latter two are powered from the outside with energy from another ball of inanimate matter, the Sun. Those things can do things no human can do.

With people getting better with the doctors not being sure what happened, I'd like to hear from the doctors about if each of those stories really happened. Saying that a god did it is jumping to conclusions. Medical research had not ended and we are still discovering many things we didn't know about before, including how the body repairs itself. Using a god to explain things that nobody can yet explain makes that god a god of the gaps.

I know this for myself because I used to be a believer. Do not say that I never really believed. I had "God exists" echoing around in my head at night and was happy to believe it. I felt holy sometimes in church and felt that the Christian god was really there with us. I think that believers say that all deconverted people never believed in the first place so that they would not fear for the integrity of their faith. They don't want to think about the possibility that if others had deconverted, they could themselves deconvert. They fear losing the emotional comfort regarding what happens after death, the thing they call sin and the social circle. Plenty of times, when somebody deconverts, their church friends try to get them back into the fold. When they are unsuccessful, they say that the person wasn't really saved in the first place, no matter what the person actually believed before. Then they write it off as an issue between the person and the god with and think of the person as hellbound unless they convert "for real." True friends would respect their friends' beliefs as long as the beliefs weren't causing serious damage.

Rose Immortal

I tend to think of it differently. I don't think of a person being hellbound. If anything, I tend to suspect that there was some kind of traumatic event--be it a bad circumstance in life or outright mistreatment from Christians. Sometimes those who deconvert are people who are in pain. As such I feel empathy and want to repair the hurt if at all possible.

Taylor

Can I add a few different thoughts to this conversation for the sake of discussion.

In my job, I have seen officers lose faith, as well as gain more faith based on different events. Many in law enforcement see the bad in people, and deal with them daily. After awhile, one begins to lose hope in humanity and lose hope in a higher power (How could God let all of these bad things happen?)

On that same note, because of the loss of hope in humanity, some gain more faith in God. This seems to be more common with those that I meet.

The same can be said for victims of traumatic events (How could God let this happen to me?). Like before, traumatic events give people more hope and faith in God. In fact, many feel that they need God to help them get through the rough times of such trauma. If God wasn't there, they feel they would be lost. The thought of God gives us hope...in the good times and the bad.

With that said, and this is where I don't understand the atheists that I mean (obviously not all atheists feel this way)...so what if somebody wants to believe in God? You have a crack addicted mother of 6 who is at the end of her rope and her children have no chance of living a 'normal' life like the children their age. One day, the mother hits rock bottom and 'sees the light'. She gets herself cleaned up with what she believes is from the help of God and puts the pieces of her family back together. What would it matter if God helped this woman or not? Is it better for this woman to believe in something that has improved her life and those around her, or to wave a sign in her face saying 'There is no God...there is no Hell...do whatever you want because it doesn't matter in the end'.

God gives hope to those who need it most...why try to take that away or convince them otherwise?

web730

How came that your so-called statement stating that the religious fanatics rather believe the Bible with their eyes closed since they haven't read it yet and to see the difference? Makes no sense even if you were speaking illeraterally.

Also that atheists do believe only in what they see are the ones falling with the world ways more easily!

So those atheists are also spirit-bankrupted and owned by the dark side unknowingly. Lucifier laughs at those fools.