Gemtun

WOW ..no wonder Ive been unable to reach any business by using IP ...even state agencies refuse to take my calls and Im on the computer all day long, due to work so it has become aggravating to be refused by agencies/businesses.

Thanks for letting us know - guess it is time for me to wipe off the dust on my TTY and use my state relay.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Dennis

Is this still going on?

PowerWCRulez

Wow, I'm sure they'll block IP addy from Africa's ISP providers.. they used "Deny List" on SOHO routers (high ends business router racks) I've seen many SOHO router rack system, it's pretty BIG spaceful server rooms.

__________________


[] Astrospace IRC Chat clients [] Astrospace IRC Web [] Ubuntu Linux []
[] Personal Web & Scammer Alert List [] Wheelchairjunkie []
[] Updated: 9/10/2007 - SK3 is here! []
[] Avatar Pic: Ride on the bus []
[] MyMiniCity (Returned! Finally script working now) []
[] Play Pulltab game on facebook! []

Mark Rejhon

Yes,

This is still going on.

Con artists target phone system for deaf
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4781806/

International Scam Artists Steal Big Money Through a New Telephone Service for the Deaf
http://www.citypaper.com/2004-04-14/feature.html

CrazyMomma

Interesting.. I never call anybody and share my personal credits with. I really don't use IP relay for business or anything.. Just some family personal things.

ScamBuster

YES, still going on. There are also some results at busting some of these criminals in Africa...
"...Working with a team of Nigerian national law-enforcement agents he trained last September, an FBI agent recently arrested 16 people on fraud and theft charges in Lagos, Nigeria. The team also seized or prevented delivery of more than $400,000 worth of merchandise stolen from U.S. businesses through credit card fraud, according to Dale Miskell, supervisory special agent in charge of the FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center.

Miskell is the FBI's man in charge of the "419 scam," a series of frauds perpetrated mostly over the Internet but also on the phone, using the Internet Protocol relay system meant for the deaf, speech-impaired, and hard of hearing ("Out of Africa," April 14)..."

See all the articles concerning this scam bye clicking HERE

Neverask

I have proposed registration where you have to enter your signon and password in order to make ip calls. This would help bring up the customer profiles and know where and how to make calls. Customer profiles is already in the works via TTY direct calls, so why not do the same for IP calls? And, in most cases you have to register to make VRS calls. So, it can be done. From what I was told, relay companies do not want to add an extra step. I guess this falls on FCC on making registration a mandate or not. There are ways to help prevent con artists from making IP calls.

Dennis

You do NOT need to register to make VRS calls. In fact, I would argue that it is more convenient NOT to have to register -- I just go to the website, put in the phone number, and dial! No need to memorize a login and password, wasting precious moments each time I need to make a call.

Case in point: SprintVRS, you can choose to login or just go and make a call. The login is for convenience of your personal preferences and options, i.e., your VCO number, frequently dialed numbers, and other personal information ready at a touch of a few buttons.

Logging in impacts your privacy. Hearing callers do not have a 3rd party listening in and identifying them unless they are actively wiretapped. Hearing people don't have to enter a login / password each time they want to call. Deaf people deserve the equal opportunity to enjoy privacy to make their phone calls without being identified by relay operators or interpreters.

Case in point -- I personally know several interpreters who work for different VRS providers. I have met several of their friends who know my face but probably don't know my name. If I call into VRS with my name, they will see my face, remember the name, and then possibly gossip my private conversation to those who may know me. Paranoid? No, it actually does happen in this kind of community, not all interpreters are totally professional and not all get fired for that breach of ethics.

You can give up privacy for convenience and/or security -- but I won't support anything less than leaving that choice up to each individual consumer.

Shiva

simple solution why dont anyone make phone that work between hearing and deaf such as change voice to text inside the phone just like vco but only with typing text change into voice may be difficult part. I know it may ruin relay operators' jobs however at least it should stop the spams and give deafies more private rights using phone communication without using relay.

I dislike relay because of privacy issues, I dont trust them at all only if IT necessary to call relay such as make call to work, make order for food only ask to pay cash or check in person once they delivery the food.

Dennis

*chuckle*

A little trivia for everyone: Did you know that IBM has been working on that for more than FORTY (yes, 40) years?!

"May be difficult part" is really an understatement. 6 billion people on earth. Hundreds of thousands of dialects. Accents. Voice coaching, speech therapy, and makes speech RECOGNICION nigh impossible in real time.

But, of course, Shiva was making a point that "text to voice" may be difficult, not "voice to text" which is nigh impossible. Actually, text to voice is possible, now, but it's still at the monotone, robotic stage. At least live humans voicing for you put some inflection into their voice.

The technology you want is still many years off. Do you want to wait until the "simple solution" comes out in a couple of decades, or are you content to use relay until the right stuff comes along?

JesKlu

In my opinion, IP-relay in this case should be shut down and just dial 711. It is a lot more confidential than IP-relay. IP_relay is over internet and there are people spying on internet all the time. I never use IP-relay. Just 711. Anyway, I know these scams won't stop and IP-relay in this case should shut down and those operators working there should transfer over to the state relay office. Sorry, but it's true. Internet is never confidential and there are assholes out there. Sorry for language, but it's true. Anyway, i think everyone should just go back to 711. Since it's a lot more confidential. Or If you want a way to make IP-relay more confidential, instead of saying Go Ahead, say GA, or say SKSK when caller is hanging up. So that way you will know that if the caller is a scammer. Anyway, I just think everyone should just plain use 711 and those internet IP operators transfer and go to state relay office.

PeteEMT

IP-Relay (the web version) uses SSL. Your connection to relay is encrypted and is just as if not more secure than 711. SSL is the same kind of encryption e-commerce sites use to process your billing information.

To use 711, you need a TTY, a VCO device or to have your computer setup as well as a phone line. To use IP-Relay you just need a Computer and Internet Connection which is more and more common these days even in some cases not even having a phone line but just a high speed data line.

TTY's tend to be based off 50 baud Baudot, because it handles line noise well and tends to work even with the crummiest connections. The downsides: It's slow, It's half duplex (only 1 person can talk at a time).

JesKlu

Actually Pete, 711 is safer because you have to pay long distance charges. Con artists don't want to pay a high long distance cll rate just to steal stuff. The cost of calling here through 711 if you're in Nigeria would be extremely expensive. That's why using 711 would be a lot safer.

ideafspy

where did you get that idea?

__________________
Let the star inner your heart be blast dark sky where there will be a bright kingdom.

sweet4u618

That is crazy for west africa to be nosy in iprelay to use the scams since they were mci , or whatever to call people and heard about iprelay so that is how west africa decide to do crazy to steal people's personal cards out of ip relay computer data wiretapped u mean wiretapped while on computer with ip relay???? and i am glad i don't even accept credit cards at all. I refused it and is smart to watch budget money as i can cuz i have a lot of patience without credit card. .... u said about when i called business like changing service turning off mci and turning on sbc long distance for example, when i call that business.... business hung up thought i w/ relay is not a real hearing person and think relay and i are telemarketing . or like call other business like papa john they thought relay and i are telemarketing that person hung up and i told relay to redial cuz i know they think it 's telemarketing. i use to that that is not bad for me but if personal things on ip relay computer like credit card or debit so many time which is not good that west africa may steal? i use tty sometimes like in morning where i don't want to turn computer on until later evening or night depend on my mood. is that what u are saying all this as i said? WHAT ABOUT BILLS ? WILL THEY FIND OUT AND THEY WILL BILL TO ALL OF US OF IP RELAY BILLS SINCE ALL OF US ARE ABLE TO USE IPRELAY FOR FREE? WHAT IF IT IS GONNA BILLING US LATER ON? CUZ WE HAVE USERNAME AND PW? ARE U SAYING THAT DEAF PEOPLE GET CREDIT CARD BILLS SINCE THEY ARE SCAMMED FROM IPRELAY THAT WEST AFRICA IS NOSY IN TO STEAL?

Dennis

Err, let me see if I can clear up as much as I know.

sweet4u618 :

1) Internet Relay Scam: An person "posing" as a deaf person, usually from an international location, uses the internet relay service (iprelay, sprintrelayonline, at&t internet relay, hiprelay, etc.) to purchase some incredible number of goods. The fraud person convinces the seller that they're on the level and provides a credit card number that the seller doesn't know is stolen. The fraud person convinces them to ship somewhere ASAP. Shortly after, the seller finds out the card was stolen and loses all the money for that sale.

JesKlu:

1) Internet relay is SECURE. SSL encryption is ON for all relay providers, I believe. That means it's virtually impossible for anyone on the internet to view your conversation and "steal credit cards" or whatever.

2) Internet relay is CONFIDENTIAL. The operators cannot record any information; it is a FELONY to do so, they WILL go to jail if they are caught. The only exception to this is they can temporarily record an audio tape of a long message and play back so they can catch the whole thing correctly to type out to the deaf user. People who won't use relay because they're afraid the operators will steal their personal information or will tell the world ARE IDIOTS. Drug deals, murders, and other crimes have been spoken about through the relay service.

3) 7-1-1 is not "more secure" than internet relay. Con artists have and are very willing to pay long distance fees if the payoff is good. The thing is, people can trace where phone calls are coming from, whereas it's impossible to trace via the internet. THAT'S why they use internet relay.

4) 7-1-1 just isn't convenient enough anymore. I'm on the internet far more than I'm on the phone. I'd rather take advantage of what I have than to be stuck with a phone line I almost never use.

Fly Free

personally i use internet relay services than using the TTY now a days when i need to use the services -- its just simply SO MUCH easier to use than with the TTY

Deaf258

It's interesting to know that using the 'My IP Relay' AIM buddy is NOT secure at all.

PeteEMT

That's sort of debatable on "not secure at all". AIM isn't encrypted, yes and can be sniffed but it goes like this.

Your Data Packet is a fish in the river.

If the sniffer is at your Internet Service Provider, the river is rather small and not many fish.

The farther away you go from your computer towards AIM, the bigger the river gets. My IP Relay I bet uses a pretty big pipe or river too.

So getting your information, would be the same as reaching into the river and grabbing an exact fish (and this would have to be done hundreds of times over a single session)

Unless someone is speficically targetting you, the chances that your AIM-Relay conversation will be read by a third party is pretty slim.

Beowulf

These scam artists are also cruising through deaf chatrooms, so be careful not to aim with them, because they can send a Trojan Horse into your computer that way to get all the information they need to make credit purchases through your name.

harleymn

Why cant relay realize the long distance coming from there and ask for a verify phone numbers before making the calls i also recommend everyoine to put your number on the relay screen that way they can check it thru sprint to see if it is fake will that work, like when i make a call threy know my number and vco user already on thier screen. why cant they make everyone put thiers thru a phone co saying you paid the bills etc, then the scammers cant beat that .

sweet4u618

hi i understand that scambuster posted it. so thanks someone else who explained to me that cover up for scambuster. i am glad and yeah i used to iprelay and sometimes i can click ip relay again after first line is on can use two or three lines same times and also can use tty (dial) same time with ip relay. it save my time than wait for tty relay one at a time done after that done sometimes. ok but it said warning??????? so that is not warning for deaf people but to ip relay who are workers that should be warned if they record deaf people's ip relay messages that workers will go to jail. so i thought warning mean something is wrong with ip relay service. that's all and thanks i do understand really clear now but weird warning. ok thx bye

PeteEMT

Well the whole point of IP-Relay is it is anonymous and users don't have to have a phone line.

Even so, this scheme is easily defeated with a device called a Phone Book.

Dennis

What if I'm deaf and I don't want a phone? What about my pager that doesn't have a phone number, just an email address? Hmm?

Deaf258

I didn't know that you are hearing!

And you can use the new option on www.ip-relay.com where you can register for your own personal phone number for hearing people to call you by the use of AIM. If you are not on AIM, they will forward the message to your email.

posts from hell

This is the day of this age where I am so glad that I live in a shack where nobody wants to bother me.

TiaraPrincess

Well, I just tried making a call for the first time using this. I noticed that they relay repeat for number when I am just starting to write down the number. Then the caller repeat as if I am not there. I will have to update again .

Would love to hear from others if they have tried.

Dennis

I'm a hearing dog (bark bark). My master doesn't let me use the computer when he's around.

What the heck was your point? We're discussing relay fraud, and I'm throwing out hypotheticals to address harveymn.



I don't know if you're still addressing my points when you say this:

How does that reconcile what I was addressing:

TiaraPrincess

Well, I had someone call me and leave me a message. It's my first one, and I like it! It also leaves the phone number on the Subject line. Yay! Big success for once.