Salutations! confused on proper asl form

Cappy said:

IDK who said PSE and SEE isn't a language. Its a sign language. Who gonna argue that? ASL is tough as the dickens. I been deaf and learning sign since 6yrs old. I'm now 56. ASL is not my forte. I'm dumb as a box of rocks with ASL. But, SEE and PSE? Piece of cake.

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PSE and SEE are not a language. it's a "bastardized" version of ASL. SEE and PSE are piece of cake to you because it does not follow the formal structure of the actual language. you're basically making it up as it goes.

English is a language... and there are handful of people who did not have solid foundation of English language... so that's why you have "ghetto" language or whatever the version/flavor of English they're using.

this is precisely why we need to have a standardized format for ASL in America. We already have a standardized structure for English in schools... why not for ASL?

no offense to anyone but sorry - I cannot tolerate SEE. It's exhausting for me. any language takes several years to master a solid foundation. please do yourself a favor and don't take a shortcut. ASL users can understand PSE/SEE/International SL because they already have a solid foundation to begin with. With a solid foundation to stand on, you usually can decipher thru several different flavors.

AlleyCat said:

That was actually rude of you, Reba. It is ok to discuss the differences between signs. After all, an ASL student, as you pointed out, can learn that there are differences between personal sign preferences. Just because you're a retired interpreter doesn't mean you know better than the rest of us who have been signing all our lives.

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No, I'm no better than anyone else. The OP is a hearing adult learning ASL for the first time. As a former ASL student myself, I can give language learning tips to her. That's a different experience from someone who's been signing for a lifetime.

Cappy posted, "I might derail this thread." If someone intentionally wants to derail a thread of any topic, they should start a new thread, to be respectful of the OP.

Discussing the differences between signs is one thing. Calling ASL gibberish and Yoda-speak is not "discussing"--it's dishonoring to those who use the language.

Reba said:

No, I'm no better than anyone else. The OP is a hearing adult learning ASL for the first time. As a former ASL student myself, I can give language learning tips to her. That's a different experience from someone who's been signing for a lifetime.

Cappy posted, "I might derail this thread." If someone intentionally wants to derail a thread of any topic, they should start a new thread, to be respectful of the OP.

Discussing the differences between signs is one thing. Calling ASL gibberish and Yoda-speak is not "discussing"--it's dishonoring to those who use the language.

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I agree with you and I don’t find your post to be rude.

Of course, no one is perfect.

Here's a good example of comparison between SEE, PSE and ASL-
and as jiro mentioned above- you can see how exhausting SEE is. I took a course in SEE (I had to- required for my MA coursework :P) and oh gah....while it's great for teaching English itself- it's just that- a method...
Whether ASL is a "hard" or "easy" language to learn is in the eye of the person learning it. What you put into learning is what you get out of it. Cappy, there's no need to tear it down just because YOU think it's a hard language. Sign PSE? Great go for it! Most of my friends did back in college days. Sign ASL? Great go for it! I knew some who signed ASL- though I've never met someone pure ASL I know it's out there. (I don't get around much these days).

Jiro said:

no offense to anyone but sorry - I cannot tolerate SEE.

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None taken and I understand about SEE. Everyone learn new signs everyday... offering tips is good idea to help make communication easier.

My ASL teacher works for one of the two major Deaf schools in my state. She told us in class not long ago that newer generations aren't really using ASL so much anymore. So many of the kids have hearing aids or CIs that they're learning how to sign along with learning English and PSE is becoming the dominant usage. They still teach them ASL but when the kids are out on their own they're using PSE not ASL.

I can't stand SEE either. When my parents were learning sign back when I was a baby, they took SEE classes. They still use it to this day. I understand what they're signing and I tolerate it, but I won't use it for myself.

Lysander said:

My ASL teacher works for one of the two major Deaf schools in my state. She told us in class not long ago that newer generations aren't really using ASL so much anymore. So many of the kids have hearing aids or CIs that they're learning how to sign along with learning English and PSE is becoming the dominant usage. They still teach them ASL but when the kids are out on their own they're using PSE not ASL.

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yes. that's also true. but it's also depending on what college they went to since it will be their daily exposure for 4+ years.

for example - there are "RIT dialect", "Gally dialect", and "deaf generation" dialect. RIT dialect is more of SEE/PSE while Gally dialect is obviously ASL. I do sometimes grimaced in pain when RIT students try to tell a story because I can see they're struggling inside their brain to conceptualize a story from their mind to their hands. it's constantly switching back and forth between English and ASL and figuring out how to express it in ASL as visual story instead of written story but then end up with "English" ASL (but not SEE) which is a combination of English and ASL hence... PSE.... and that's me. But I'm making a good, slow steady progress transitioning into "visual" ASL instead of "English" ASL. as I said... any language takes several years to learn and also how much of exposure you get on daily basis.

I also do sometimes grimaced in pain when Gally students try to tell a story because it's very strong ASL and it can be sometimes hard to follow.

I grimaced in pain when Boston students try to tell a story because damn! they sign and fingerspell better than me! they're mostly terps/terps-in-training.

mind you - these days... lot of Gally students do have HA or CI too. lot of them enter college with varieties of signing (SEE, ASL, PSE, etc) and leave college with strong foundation in ASL plus "Gally dialect". I will be visiting Gally very soon for ASL Elements competition. my good friend created this show.

You all should go!

https://www.facebook.com/events/333939287056304/
https://www.facebook.com/aslelements/

personally - I like "deaf generation" dialect. there are not many deafies who are from deaf generation. in my experience - they're often easiest to understand and can express a story very beautifully and clearly. this dialect is very unique and easily identifiable... IMO

First off, @Lisa Sims , Welcome to AD, Land of Misfit Toys. Looks like you got more than you bargained for.

2nd of all, I got a lot of kick-my-ass PMs (private messages). I love AD and its members for taking me behind the wood shed for an ass whooping. Everyone has valid points. I hafta say, ASL is my weak link. I admit that. I understand that it is faster and easier for some of youse.. Thank gawd for SEE/PSE. Those I get. And, @Reba I still see ASL as yoda speak, only because I don't understand it. No, offense ok?

I was Gally student and of course, my ASL improved after I left Gally, so it was mixed of ASL and PSE. I can't stand with SEE at all.

When I had VR evaluation in 2012 and 2 evaluators was signing in SEE, so I was very confused and didn't understand about what they are saying, so that's effectively tainted my evaluation and they basically told me that I'm not ready for college, but VR supervisor decided to ignored the evaluation and let me to finish the college until I went on medical leave, so they told me that I need new evaluation this year, so I just finished in last June. Finally, I got outstanding evaluation result because of ASL interpreter was with me all time as evaluator spoke orally, so they told me that I'm ready for college, however I'm late junior and closer to senior. Return to Gally has been on hold due to issue with math department and major director, otherwise, I'm going to complete rest of them at community college and transfer to Gally if it is working out.

SEE tends to use make-up signs that sounds like Yoda speaks.

Who cares about how Yoda speaks, I'm huge fan of Star Wars.

Foxrac said:

I was Gally student and of course, my ASL improved after I left Gally, so it was mixed of ASL and PSE. I can't stand with SEE at all.

When I had VR evaluation in 2012 and 2 evaluators was signing in SEE, so I was very confused and didn't understand about what they are saying, so that's effectively tainted my evaluation and they basically told me that I'm not ready for college, but VR supervisor decided to ignored the evaluation and let me to finish the college until I went on medical leave, so they told me that I need new evaluation this year, so I just finished in last June. Finally, I got outstanding evaluation result because of ASL interpreter was with me all time as evaluator spoke orally, so they told me that I'm ready for college, however I'm late junior and closer to senior. Return to Gally has been on hold due to issue with math department and major director, otherwise, I'm going to complete rest of them at community college and transfer to Gally if it is working out.

SEE tends to use make-up signs that sounds like Yoda speaks.

Who cares about how Yoda speaks, I'm huge fan of Star Wars.

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I hope your college plans work out.