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Unread 12-02-2011, 10:15 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webexplorer View Post
You mentioned about playing in the casinos for your living. That is a challenge, too. It is still part of gambling as well as for stock market. ;-)

It seems to me that the Casinos are watching you every game from the surveillance security cameras. The stock market has a computer program that controls the system by one man in a secret room somewhere. They don't want us to be rich. Sorry, this is off topic.
I'm sure there's such scenario like that.
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Unread 12-14-2011, 01:16 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Investment is a risky business and I've heard many uneducated people fall into the get rich quickly/ponzi scheme and lost their life savings. It is a tragic really. But that doesn't mean that you cannot make money by investing in the stock market.

Investing requires discipline, a detachment of emotions and understanding the company/sector of your choice. It is not a gamble by any means if you know what you are doing. A gentleman mentioned earlier that investing in the stock market is no better than gambling, I am unsure if your comment was an attempt at humor or half serious, but I can assure that an educated investor will always come ahead than a gambler.

So do your research but take everything you read with a grain of salt because 90% of the investment materials out there are either written by someone who tries to sell you something or a biased advice without full disclosure.
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Unread 12-15-2011, 06:26 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Investment is a risky business and I've heard many uneducated people fall into the get rich quickly/ponzi scheme and lost their life savings. It is a tragic really. But that doesn't mean that you cannot make money by investing in the stock market.

Investing requires discipline, a detachment of emotions and understanding the company/sector of your choice. It is not a gamble by any means if you know what you are doing. A gentleman mentioned earlier that investing in the stock market is no better than gambling, I am unsure if your comment was an attempt at humor or half serious, but I can assure that an educated investor will always come ahead than a gambler.

So do your research but take everything you read with a grain of salt because 90% of the investment materials out there are either written by someone who tries to sell you something or a biased advice without full disclosure.
Right, it's not gambling when you end up making a shit ton of money in a few hours, but it's gambling when you lose it? When you make money, some other poor schmuck loses theirs. That's the way it works. But of course you don't think of it like that. No stock investor considers the consequences of his success. That is precisely what is wrong with the system and with capitalism in general.

Just because you're successful at it doesn't mean it is any more legitimate than going into a casino and earning a 1000$ on a lucky pull at the slots. The difference is, money earned in the stock market is blood money.
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Unread 12-15-2011, 08:20 PM   #124 (permalink)
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ok I'll bring up a stock chart i tracked a while ago...
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Unread 12-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #125 (permalink)
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ok I'll bring up a stock chart i tracked a while ago...
Hmm, can't readily find it - Will grab it off the other laptop later on.

But here's something I found...

Our first trade -


Note: I made about $85 in 1 minute 2 seconds just fleecing off these who left their cash sitting in the stock market.

I remember that afternoon. It was unreal.

Like TWA said, it's pretty much blood money.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 01:27 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Right, it's not gambling when you end up making a shit ton of money in a few hours, but it's gambling when you lose it? When you make money, some other poor schmuck loses theirs. That's the way it works. But of course you don't think of it like that. No stock investor considers the consequences of his success. That is precisely what is wrong with the system and with capitalism in general.

Just because you're successful at it doesn't mean it is any more legitimate than going into a casino and earning a 1000$ on a lucky pull at the slots. The difference is, money earned in the stock market is blood money.

I'm not quite sure if I understand your point, but I'll play.

1. I never said that making sound, well managed investment is a gamble. When you invest in something, you are essentially putting your money/time on something that you believe will worth more than what is worth today (lets not talk about options and securities ).

2. It is not true that when you make money in the stock market, someone else lose their's. Investment is not a zero sum game.

3. You seem to believe that investing in stock market is illegitimate, but I think what you really mean is that there are unethical activities involving investing which I briefly mentioned in my original post. Enron, Countrywide, Leman Brothers, AIG etc all used sophisticated accounting techniques to inflate their value/mislead investors which are highly unethical and their CEOs/CFOs deserve to rot in hell.

Having that said, I still believe that someone with discipline and knowledge will benefit greatly by investing in the financial market than betting their retirement on slot machines.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 08:51 PM   #127 (permalink)
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I'm not quite sure if I understand your point, but I'll play.

1. I never said that making sound, well managed investment is a gamble. When you invest in something, you are essentially putting your money/time on something that you believe will worth more than what is worth today (lets not talk about options and securities ).

2. It is not true that when you make money in the stock market, someone else lose their's. Investment is not a zero sum game.

3. You seem to believe that investing in stock market is illegitimate, but I think what you really mean is that there are unethical activities involving investing which I briefly mentioned in my original post. Enron, Countrywide, Leman Brothers, AIG etc all used sophisticated accounting techniques to inflate their value/mislead investors which are highly unethical and their CEOs/CFOs deserve to rot in hell.

Having that said, I still believe that someone with discipline and knowledge will benefit greatly by investing in the financial market than betting their retirement on slot machines.
For #3... It is "illegitimate" when you consider that there are day traders all over the place mooching your pennies off you slowly but surely.
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Unread 12-19-2011, 10:01 PM   #128 (permalink)
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I work as a financial educator, meeting with families helping them know what is going on with their money, what should/could happen, what good solid principles are, how to find investments that match your risk profile. You could be surprised how un-complicated it is to make good decisions, once you learn what makes a good decision. Of course that is different for everyone, so I can't define a good decision here. I don't know if it's appropriate to plug my company on here, but our focus is on financial education not just selling products. If you're interested in knowing more, you can let me know, I can give more specifics. I flagged the post to let me know if someone replies, and if you want the contact info, I can get it to you.

In general my advice is if someone tells you what's right for you without looking at your individual situation, goals, experiences, or whatever, that person has no idea what they're talking about. How could they make a blanket recommendation like that? No two people are in exactly the same spot with exactly the same goals! Any book has to be intentionally vague, so that makes the book not really that helpful.
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Unread 12-20-2011, 03:55 PM   #129 (permalink)
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For #3... It is "illegitimate" when you consider that there are day traders all over the place mooching your pennies off you slowly but surely.
Give me an example. What is illegitimate about day trading?
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Unread 12-20-2011, 05:39 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Give me an example. What is illegitimate about day trading?

Derivatives.



Nuff said.
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Unread 12-20-2011, 10:15 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Derivatives.



Nuff said.
Derivatives are not something that you day trade. Please do your research before throw out words that you don't know what it means.

For every word you use but don't understand, God kills a kitten.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 10:16 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Derivatives are not something that you day trade. Please do your research before throw out words that you don't know what it means.

For every word you use but don't understand, God kills a kitten.
I didn't say they were, but certainly you can trade in derivatives on a daily basis if you are prolific enough.

"Derivative" is a term for certain types of financial contracts that are very harmful to the stability of the economy. I'll use one example here: Short selling. The only way for a person to make money on short selling is for someone else to lose their money. There is no additional wealth generated. It is simply betting on someone else' loss. How this is morally, ethically, and socially acceptable, I'm not sure. Financial market watchdog agencies pleaded to have derivatives regulated back in the 90s. Clinton refused. Bush refused. Obama refused.

I have done my research. Maybe you should not try so hard to defend an unethical institution.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:01 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Derivatives are short term contracts between two parties. It's basically hedging against future price of the stock derived from underlying assets.

Warren Buffet called derivatives "financial weapons of mass destruction" in 2002 - 6 years before the collapse. In 2002 - derivatives were 100 trillion. At the collapse, it was over 500 trillion.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:16 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Derivatives are short term contracts between two parties. It's basically hedging against future price of the stock derived from underlying assets.

Warren Buffet called derivatives "financial weapons of mass destruction" in 2002 - 6 years before the collapse. In 2002 - derivatives were 100 trillion. At the collapse, it was over 500 trillion.
... and yet people act as if it's nothing.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:20 AM   #135 (permalink)
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I'll pass on that. Too much risks involved with money.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:20 AM   #136 (permalink)
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You gamble for a living?
As someone who is also an advantage casino player, I can tell you your odds are better at blackjack, if you know how to count cards, than with the stock market.

Also, there are a lot of financial products out there similar to mortgage packaging (mortgage backed securities)that do not favor the consumer. The financial market is still far from regulated.

To be fair, I have made money in the market, but the odds can be against it.

Use caution.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 11:22 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Derivatives are short term contracts between two parties. It's basically hedging against future price of the stock derived from underlying assets.

Warren Buffet called derivatives "financial weapons of mass destruction" in 2002 - 6 years before the collapse. In 2002 - derivatives were 100 trillion. At the collapse, it was over 500 trillion.

This is correct. Just because you have a basket of stocks to hedge does not mean the hedge will work.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 12:56 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Derivatives are not something that you day trade. Please do your research before throw out words that you don't know what it means.

For every word you use but don't understand, God kills a kitten.
I had short selling programmed in my day trading program... Among other things. The benefits given to the day traders that trade large sum of money are unreal.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 12:58 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Give me an example. What is illegitimate about day trading?
I already gave you an example. And I did not say it was exactly illegitimate. I used quotation marks.
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Unread 12-21-2011, 01:33 PM   #140 (permalink)
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I had short selling programmed in my day trading program... Among other things. The benefits given to the day traders that trade large sum of money are unreal.
Majority of day traders actually lose money.
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Unread 01-13-2012, 08:18 AM   #141 (permalink)
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There are many investments out there, However you want watch out for paying Taxes. If you are looking for Personal investment just for you and would like to have tax free retirement. I can help you to understand better. There are are so many misunderstanding how it works. The bottom line is for investment is really for your retirement. Did you know about 401k you have to pay 30% Tax at 70 1/2 of age. If you decide not to used it. It will be 50% Tax. Nice huh? Big Chuck of it. We have a program for Tax Free Retirement. If you want to know more about the tax free retirement. I will be glad to discuss over the VP.
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Unread 01-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Ditto to what kenswct says...some programs have tax savings now, some have them later. Everyone's situation is different, and there are benefits/negatives to all programs depending on individual situation and goals. I'm happy to discuss with people too, explain all the options!!
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