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Unread 12-02-2011, 05:19 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Mmm-hmmm. And make money for himself along the way out of my profits. No thanks.

Most people today have the ability to invest in a 401(k) plan at work. That is the cheapest way to go, and usually the employers will have information available to help people choose which funds (although granted, the information is often not used to full effect by many employees).
no it's not "your" profit. it's HIS profit because he made it for you.

put in $20,000. he gets you $200,000. he gets a percentage out of that. how can you not like it? oh well. your loss.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 05:22 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Mmm-hmmm. And make money for himself along the way out of my profits. No thanks.

Most people today have the ability to invest in a 401(k) plan at work. That is the cheapest way to go, and usually the employers will have information available to help people choose which funds (although granted, the information is often not used to full effect by many employees).
Didn't people have their 401K mangled just a couple years ago?
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Unread 12-02-2011, 05:34 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Didn't people have their 401K mangled just a couple years ago?
The Great 401K Stock Loan Scandal – How Wall Street Minted Money While Retirees Picked Up the Losses | Commercial Lending | Securities Lending | Sec Lending

and this was an interesting read on pros and cons of 401(k):

Efforts to raise 401(k) participation hit snags - USATODAY.com
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Unread 12-02-2011, 05:59 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Didn't people have their 401K mangled just a couple years ago?
If people were totally in stocks in 2008 (in IRAs, 401(k) plans, or non-tax-advantaged plans), and *didn't understand the risks,* then yes, they lost a lot. But in 2009 and 2010, they would have earned it all back again, and more.

If people took out loans *and didn't understand the risks,* then yes, they were in trouble if they then lost their jobs and had to repay the money.

People need to educate themselves. People being what they are, some will do a better job than others; some employers are better than others at making information available.

But more people are benefiting from 401(k)s than ever benefitted from traditional pensions where you had to work for the same employer for 30 years for maximum benefits. People just don't stay with one company that long very often, and never did.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 05:59 PM   #95 (permalink)
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The world was a lot different when Beach Girl and TxGolfer started investing for their retirement. There was a lot more protection for small-time investors like yourselves. I do not trust, at all, any investment firm or large bank to protect my retirement. You two should consider yourselves lucky that you did not lose everything. There are millions of people who did everything right when it came to planning for their retirement, only to have it stolen right from under them and put into the pockets of scumbag executives.

It's a gamble no matter what you do. Personally, I will invest some money, but not directly in the stock market. But I will enjoy a good chunk of it right now. I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to the American Empire. It cannot last forever.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 06:10 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Maybe not. But the probability is that it WILL at least last your lifetime.

The one thing you have on your side is time, and the magic of compounded returns over time. It would be a shame to waste that. IMHO, of course, and I'm not you.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 06:15 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Maybe not. But the probability is that it WILL at least last your lifetime.

The one thing you have on your side is time, and the magic of compounded returns over time. It would be a shame to waste that. IMHO, of course, and I'm not you.
Credit card companies get rich on monthly compounded interest, no reason why we can't too.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 06:24 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Mmm-hmmm. And make money for himself along the way out of my profits. No thanks.

Most people today have the ability to invest in a 401(k) plan at work. That is the cheapest way to go, and usually the employers will have information available to help people choose which funds (although granted, the information is often not used to full effect by many employees).
I recalled a username's comment on the AllDeaf about this one. She lost everything that she invested in 401(k). I may think that it has to do with her layoff. I personally think that 401(k) is a crazy. It is not for me anyway.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 06:47 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Well, OK then, if that's what you want. It's your life. If you can seriously live on Social Security and be ok with that, then good luck to you.

As for me, I am very grateful I started seriously investing a bit more than 30 years ago (just about the time period you've got ahead of you). No way would I be able to live the life I have without those compounded returns, and for sure I would not be happy living on Social Security alone. And besides, I'm not even eligible for it yet.

But that's me, not you. That's why they call it "personal" finance; we all make our decisions as we see fit.

(Annuities, incidentally, virtually all rely on the underlying performance of the stocks in which the parent company invests. So you're not avoiding the stock market exactly in buying annuities, although with an *immediate* annuity, the risk is transferred to the issuing company. A delayed annuity is another kettle of fish entirely.)
I'm surprised that he is able to do that on his Social Security. Does it means that he is allowed to invest something with a limited amount of money?

I am not really expert in stocks. I really hate it, but I had to do it for a reason. It is not a miracle for any investments. I have a Well Fargo account. The Well Fargo took over A.G. Edward Company. Ouch! My stock broker was best, but he passed away a couple of years ago, and his son took over his place, and I don't like him because he is not doing a good job. He is a big guy and about 40 years old. I have to do my own homework without any help.

I am thinking of switching to Scottrade because it cost 5 dollars per a stock. It cost 25 dollars fee ? to call someone at the Scottrade office. Well Fargo charges 100 dollars for a commission and a small percent fee for per call - that is terrible. It is kind of mess up my feeling about the difference. My Dad never taught me anything for money business.

By the way, I was told that all mutual funds take so many years to increase a very small percent every year. I have heard a little bit about CDs in banks. It is a good thing that you bought the issue. My Dad sold his house and invests his CD in the bank for 3 or 5 years. He lives with his daughter's farm house in order to help her to pay off her mortgage, but it is a long way to go.
I thought that I share it with you guys. It seems that you are very smart to know much about the stuff. I didn't finish reading all of the comments yet.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 06:58 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I buy and sell myself. I don't do stocks but I would like to someday. The problem is that one day it's very high. The next day, it's very, very low.

I saw this book when I was window shopping at Barnes and Nobles. I thought it was an interesting book. Not sure if I would want to get this one.
I bet that he was offered to write a book with a 3rd party - See "Louann Lofton Forward by Tom Gardener". I'm sure that Warren doesn't care about it.

The title of the book seems ridiculous. It is not his type. He probably let his authors to be rich again. Who knows. I don't like these words "Like A Girl" because it is too biased.

Many investment books always failed in some ways at the end. It is all about money that the authors tricked the readers to buy their books. I have seen so many books at the public library. No such thing because they are not even famous authors. It is just they take the money and walk away.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 07:05 PM   #101 (permalink)
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I bet that he was offered to write a book with a 3rd party - See "Louann Lofton Forward by Tom Gardener". I'm sure that Warren doesn't care about it.

The title of the book seems ridiculous. It is not his type. He probably let his authors to be rich again. Who knows. I don't like these words "Like A Girl" because it is too biased.

Many investment books always failed in some ways at the end. It is all about money that the authors tricked the readers to buy their books. I have seen so many books at the public library. No such thing because they are not even famous authors. It is just they take the money and walk away.
What I found very interesting is that people like Warren Buffet tend to recommend books from decades ago - he said The Intelligent Investor from Benjamin Graham (1949) is the best book ever written on investing.

Not all books fail, just the bad ones do. It's a matter of doing your research and finding out which books come highly recommended by very successful investors. And why do they have to be famous in order to give solid investing advice?
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Unread 12-02-2011, 07:52 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I disagree.
Caroline,

You have no idea. Do you know what the Plunge Protection Team is? The purpose of PPT is to goose the stock markets up whenever the inflows are less than the outflows. Whenever the Feds stop putting money into it, the stock market PLUNGES.

Let's jump onto something else here. Anyone see what happened in the silver market in the last 10 years? You could have bought in at below $7 an ounce around 7 years ago, and sold out in April/May at around $48 an ounce, before the $13 takedown in the first part of May (it's currently trading around $30-34 an ounce, and I believe it will continue to stay around there, if not drop further into the $20s before it clears above the trading range of $30-50 around May of 2013, give or take a few months).

Here are two reasons why you ought to stay out of the stock markets, or several, rather. Look at the third chart.

Now, here's the problem. Look at chart 4. What do you think is going to happen when the banking system collapses?

Look at the sixth chart. This puts in perspective what has happened to the value of the dollar since 1970, a mere 40 years ago. Does anyone realize that on August 15th, 1971, Nixon took us off the gold standard internationally? No longer could a USD held by a foreign country be redeemed for gold held by the US Gov't to extinguish a debt. That was when we entered a pure fiat regime (paper money not backed by anything so that the currency can be printed at will). The fifth chart from thumbcharts shows historically how much gold it took to buy a unit of the DOW.

Martin Weiss at Money and Markets believes that in 2012, we may see a 90% drop in the stock markets, 50% unemployment (shadow statistics shows that we are already at 24% unemployment), and possibly 3 years of 100% ANNUAL inflation if we do not get a handle on the economic crisis and the money printing by the Federal Reserve System. I hope, HOPE that this will be wrong.

Last thing is this article that you need to consider. Sorry that you came a bit late to this game;

---------------------
Michael Kosares of Centennial Precious Metals in Denver today charts gold's performance for the last decade in ordinary percentage terms and in terms of a "real rate of return," when inflation is deducted. The "real rate of return," Kosares writes, "has been the stuff of portfolio planners' dreams. Even when you take into account the two off-years of 2004 and 2008, the average real rate of return over the nine-year period was a stellar 8.5 percent. If I were to use a single word to define gold's performance over the past decade, it would be 'stalwart.' The other word that comes to mind is 'consistent.' These two words are near and dear to the heart of those who wish to hold on to their hard-earned wealth."
---------------------

The full article is at SpecReportSavingGold
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gold-for-a-house.jpg (34.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg silver-10-years.jpg (26.7 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg money-supply-2011.jpg (28.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg giant-debt-2011.jpg (32.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: png dow-gold-ratio.png (29.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg dollar-worth.jpg (20.2 KB, 1 views)

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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:01 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm biased, but for the average person *who takes the time to be well-informed,* I don't much see the need to pay someone for advice. If you have a complicated situation, then yes, that's different. But for a young person starting out, how complicated can it be? Inform yourself and keep all your earnings to yourself.

That said - a fee-based planner is better than someone who takes a percentage of the money under management, especially if you're talking about fairly small amounts (less than $500,000, at minimum). Most of the financial planners who charge a percentage of the amount being managed won't even talk to you unless you have at least a million, anyway.
I responded to this but it's gone.

Anyway yes I agree. My advice was for those unwilling to do the work. I have heard too many people say "I bought a fund through my broker this year that made money but somehow I lost money. Where did it go?" No kidding. Check Benihana I think they like to meet there.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:02 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I don't know if this is a real U.S. Debt Clock activities. Here is the link: U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:03 PM   #105 (permalink)
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---------------------

The full article is at SpecReportSavingGold
This article was written for a company that sells gold. I wish it wasn't because then it wouldn't have the biased stigma.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:05 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Credit card companies get rich on monthly compounded interest, no reason why we can't too.
Good luck
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:13 PM   #107 (permalink)
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I responded to this but it's gone.

Anyway yes I agree. My advice was for those unwilling to do the work. I have heard too many people say "I bought a fund through my broker this year that made money but somehow I lost money. Where did it go?" No kidding. Check Benihana I think they like to meet there.
Who is that you think likes to meet there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against advisors if someone has a complicated situation, suddenly got a large inheritance, wants to start a business and needs specific advice, etc., etc.

But for a young person starting out, investing a few thousand dollars a year, the very best thing that person can do for him/herself is READ UP. Subscribe to Morningstar. Read the financial papers. Read the business section of the NYTimes, Wall Street Journal, even Washington Post. Read Kiplinger's magazine, Money, Consumer Reports, all those financial magazines that have articles month in, month out, that address average people's concerns. Join a local investment club, maybe, or subscribe to the AAII journal.

THEN if you need an advisor, you will have enough information to know what to ask about.

It's just never a good thing to get an advisor and turn over the reins to that person without understanding what he's suggesting, what the risks are, and so forth.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:14 PM   #108 (permalink)
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What I found very interesting is that people like Warren Buffet tend to recommend books from decades ago - he said The Intelligent Investor from Benjamin Graham (1949) is the best book ever written on investing.

Not all books fail, just the bad ones do. It's a matter of doing your research and finding out which books come highly recommended by very successful investors. And why do they have to be famous in order to give solid investing advice?
Like Suze Orman?
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:18 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Good luck
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:18 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Like Suze Orman?
What about her?
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:21 PM   #111 (permalink)
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The world was a lot different when Beach Girl and TxGolfer started investing for their retirement. There was a lot more protection for small-time investors like yourselves. I do not trust, at all, any investment firm or large bank to protect my retirement. You two should consider yourselves lucky that you did not lose everything. There are millions of people who did everything right when it came to planning for their retirement, only to have it stolen right from under them and put into the pockets of scumbag executives.

It's a gamble no matter what you do. Personally, I will invest some money, but not directly in the stock market. But I will enjoy a good chunk of it right now. I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to the American Empire. It cannot last forever.
Luck had nothing to do with it. Stuffing money away in a 401k and hoping it is managed properly is not exactly "planning". That is what both of us are saying. If you are going to put money at risk you better stay on top of it, it's that simple. Otherwise, it is like throwing money on a hand of blackjack and leaving before the cards are dealt hoping they will track you down at the buffet when you win. Or maybe, "Sorry sir, your cards were a 2 and a 3 and you were not there to take a hit". Of course sometimes even that "2 and 3" will win if the dealer busts. Which is similar to those who make money in the market by doing nothing. But the best way to manage risk is to stay on top of it. There are plenty of great opportunities for people to make money in the market if they educate themselves and are diligent. The "American Empire" really has nothing to do with it, opportunity is everywhere.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:24 PM   #112 (permalink)
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What about her?
Some people said that some of her advices were not right. I don't know what were their specific problems. I don't have the resource on the internet for the pros and cons. I think that she is so smart, but others complained about her. That's all I know of.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 08:31 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Who is that you think likes to meet there?
Sorry, That was my answer to people who ask "where did it go?"
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Unread 12-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Luck had nothing to do with it. Stuffing money away in a 401k and hoping in is managed properly is not exactly "planning". That is what both of us are saying. If you are going to put money at risk you better stay on top of it, it's that simple. Otherwise, it is like throwing money on a hand of blackjack and leaving before the cards are dealt hoping they will track you down at the buffet when you win.


That is exactly right. You cannot just spend 30 minutes a day on it. It's more like several full days per week. You have to know what industries are on the upswing and which ones are on the way down; you have to know where you are in the bull/bear market cycle. You also have to know long-range the political climate and how that affects the business environment, especially with respect to hostile governments. You then have to know how your currencies in those countries affect your return on investment vis-a-vis your national currency. I haven't even added in that there are many kinds of businesses to invest in, like your blue stocks on the DOW, your juniors, your explorers in the mining industry, and disruptive technologies industries - here you really have to do your research, like meet the managers and owners of the business, do background checks on them, credit reports, business history, references, everything about that business before you get involved, otherwise, it's money down a rat-hole.

Now, as for the charge against me regarding the gold-annual-increase report - so what if they are promoting gold? The FACT IS, gold has gone up every year, and it's clear, because of the average person's background in sound money, that you do not understand the context in which we find ourselves in today. That is, we are nearing the end of an experiment in fiat currency, which is about 40 years as of this past August. Generally, experiments in fiat currency last about that LONG, about a generation, before the next generation finally realizes what has happened to them, and then there's the flight back to gold, silver, or at least something tangible EVERY TIME IN HISTORY. Read it. Without precious metals as a way to restrain the tendency to print money at will, what has happened, happens. Every single time.

I can do a source dump here for you if you like. It's about six years of research that I did FULL TIME. Some weeks, it was seven days a week, all day long. I learned to trust certain people, and the rest fell by the wayside.

By the way, Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market was the source for the gold report I referred to. They have documented what is going on with gold, silver, the Federal Reserve System, etc. for the last 11 years. You will find links to news articles, government documents like those at the US Treasury Department, and documents at the Federal Reserve System as well. These are all available as a matter of public record. This is not a conspiracy. It is all there if you are willing to look and know where to look.

The reason I point to gold and silver in this thread is because there is a better return on your money than you will find in the DOW in general, AT THIS TIME. During the 80s-90s, it was not, and there's a whole stack of reasons why. However, in case you are wondering what sound money is, how something that is unbacked by something untangible affects your REAL WEALTH. Did you look at any of the charts I provided? Some people have many multiples of what they originally paid for their metals, even at a post-CME-margin-crash level of $32 this past May. Have you looked at a DOW chart going back to 2000?
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Unread 12-02-2011, 09:22 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Thats ok, folks. I've given a few advice here and there over the years on the forum.. Nobody listens if they don't want to. Can't make the horse drink water.

No big deal
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Unread 12-02-2011, 09:57 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Beachgirl, a little misunderstanding here. When I said pay someone to do it, I didn't mean an adviser. I meant someone to do the trading for me. For example, mutual funds.... Instead of following stocks myself. Keeping track of stocks daily isn't my thing. You are right, I'm too young to get an adviser.

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Unread 12-02-2011, 10:03 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Thats ok, folks. I've given a few advice here and there over the years on the forum.. Nobody listens if they don't want to. Can't make the horse drink water.

No big deal
You mentioned about playing in the casinos for your living. That is a challenge, too. It is still part of gambling as well as for stock market. ;-)

It seems to me that the Casinos are watching you every game from the surveillance security cameras. The stock market has a computer program that controls the system by one man in a secret room somewhere. They don't want us to be rich. Sorry, this is off topic.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 10:06 PM   #118 (permalink)
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You mentioned about playing in the casinos for your living. That is a challenge, too. It is still part of gambling as well as for stock market. ;-)

It seems to me that the Casinos are watching you every game from the surveillance security cameras. The stock market has a computer program that controls the system by one man in a secret room somewhere. They don't want us to be rich. Sorry, this is off topic.
At the horse races, if you bet too much on a horse, you change the odds.
Sorry, this is off topic too.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 10:13 PM   #119 (permalink)
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At the horse races, if you bet too much on a horse, you change the odds.
Sorry, this is off topic too.
Yeah, not many understand how the ponies work.
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Unread 12-02-2011, 10:13 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Beach girl View Post
Who is that you think likes to meet there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against advisors if someone has a complicated situation, suddenly got a large inheritance, wants to start a business and needs specific advice, etc., etc.

But for a young person starting out, investing a few thousand dollars a year, the very best thing that person can do for him/herself is READ UP. Subscribe to Morningstar. Read the financial papers. Read the business section of the NYTimes, Wall Street Journal, even Washington Post. Read Kiplinger's magazine, Money, Consumer Reports, all those financial magazines that have articles month in, month out, that address average people's concerns. Join a local investment club, maybe, or subscribe to the AAII journal.

THEN if you need an advisor, you will have enough information to know what to ask about.

It's just never a good thing to get an advisor and turn over the reins to that person without understanding what he's suggesting, what the risks are, and so forth.
Wow, I feel like a n00b with stuff like those. >_>

I never had to really deal with those kind of financial matters before, and I had just learned how to file my own tax return just this past year. (Jiro knows...you were there when it happened, weren't you?).

But yeah, I can see how it's important to learn about all of those stuff, regardless if you agree or disagree with the system (like TWA).
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