kat05

My 18-month old profoundly deaf boy has started making huge tantrums, not taking no for an answer, wanting to get his own way in everything etc. I had the same problem with my elder hearing boy but I just hoped that by explaining him, things would eventually turn out OK (as they did). However, iin the case of my deaf boy I do not know whether it's his hearing loss, his personality, his desire to explore (he recently started walking with some help) and I am concerned that he wants to communicate and gets dissapointed. I do sign to him but there are times that it does not work either.
I have the same problem when I try to "educate" him, learn him new signs, or when I try to get him notice my lips. Although I try not to push him, I get really frustrated. Not having any deaf person in my environment makes me not to know what to expect, what to watch for etc. Any ideas?

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Audiofuzzy

It can be both. It probably is.
Have you thought of getting professional help, like a therapist
specializing in deaf children?

Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

kat05

Unfortunately, in our island there is no such therapist, just speech therapist (we see one twice a week) who has some expertise on special education in general. I am also concerned about discipline matters, since he cannot hear "NO". For the time being, I sign "NO" for it but it just won't do.

Audiofuzzy

Well, there is many ways to say "no" - apart from signing "no", there is body language- you can show it with your facial expression,
you can sit your child down for a 1.5 minute as a discipline
the way it is done on the TV show Supernanny - the thing is to keep visual contact eye to eye
which I realize might be very difficult but very important all the same.

I suppose what matter is to be consistent in your disciplining.


I am thinking eventually all the hearing child hears is verbal "NO",
so perhaps it is okay to keep signing visual "no" to a deaf child as well.
I suppose the way you sign it makes a difference, too.
Soft, calm "no" is different than coming down a sharp, hard "NO!" ?

Perhaps others will have more suggestions and better ideas?

Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

messymama

Oh my, they are all the same aren't they?

First of all, relax!! Your kid is only 18 months old... The right age to start separating your will from his will. Plus, he's deaf, which doesn't have anything to do with discipline I guess, but it's a powerful weapon!!! My son has always used his superpowers. I can make his hearing sister fell intimidated, scared, guilty just by talking to her (well poor thing, I try not to of course, but I'm lucky as she's a reasonable child). Even with her door closed she can hear me shout "Put your toys away when you're finished playiiiiing!".

But he... If I say "no" he just needs to turn away, and I don't exist anymore. He takes his aids off, and the world is at his feet. No limits. And he knows that!

So yes, you'll need to find new strategies. But you know, that's it with kids! What worked with one doesn't with the next. I have a friend with 7 kids and she says it was the same with every new kid. They're all different!

First I think you shouldn't take deafness as a reason for everything. Yes, your kid has a linguistic delay, both in speech and sign (because he's not born in a signing family, just like mine, so he's just started being exposed to sign, and it takes time for that too). But this happens to hearing kids, too. Late talkers are often trapped in the same frustration. It's not a definitive thing - your kid grows up day after day. It will take TIME.

Second, of course you need to be as visual as you can: signs, gestures, facial expression. Some drawing may work too. But every kid is different, you need to try many things.

I can tell you what works with my kid:

-Not getting too angry. Showing an excessively interesting reaction makes him want to try again, even if consequences are bad for him. He just can't resist.

-Saying and signing "NO" calmly and firmly... And only when it's REALLY needed. I always say, if you can say "yes", just do. Many "no"s, (especially if they can possibly then become "Oh well ok then do what you want!") are BAD. We need to be clear: no is no, and it comes when it's impossible for me to say "yes". So that he can trust you, that your not making fuss your "no" has a precise reason to be.

-If he insists, make it phisically impossible for him to go ahead: block him, put the thing he's not using properly away, things like that. He's stubborn, but I am, too. And if I said "no", it's because that thing is WRONG, so if you don't stop, I'll stop you. Period. I'll wipe away your tears with kisses later, but won't let you do that.

-Explaining, with signs and words, manymanymany times. It always seems not to work at the moment, but it does.

-TONS of PATIENCE. Deaf kids are experimental. Being told "no" and explained why is not enough. They need to try the same thing maaaaany times before accepting your "no". Be patient. You may be rewarded as we are by a kid who points out things and sign "No" to himself.

I tell you, my son is 3yo. He was pretty wild and I've been often told I should discipline him more. But that's not my way, I'm sort of a hippie mama and I don't like getting angry at kids. But he eventually became a well behaved kid. Doesn't make tantrums, doesn't cross roads, goes to kindergarten, speech therapy, everything, without a problem and with a smile on his face. He's got a strong personality, but I don't find him to be a fussy kid at all. And believe me, he WAS pretty wild and WAS and IS frustrated by the difficulties in communication.

Patience is the key, I think!

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

kat05

Messymama, thanks! My son too gets off his aids when he is angry, with one move!! I have another question... How one can be sure that the CI will help his kid? I mean we have done all the tests needed (MRI, CT etc) and they show that my son could be implanted, however are we SURE that this thing will help him? I am a little scared at this major surgery on the head.

messymama

Well, I can'y really help you on this one since I choose not to implant...

Depends what "help" means to you. Nobody can tell you for sure, but in the gret majority of cases implanted children do hear sounds. What they can do with that sound, after surgery, is not predictable by anyone. I'm pretty sure my son wouldn't give a d**n about Ci, exactly like he does about HAs. But you know, we'll never know.

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

Audiofuzzy

I was wondering, Kat, why is it so absolutely vital to you that your child have to hear?

Do you think his chances in life are any less if he have no sound?
I assure you, it doesn't matter. I had a brother who chose to go Deaf,
and unlike me, never ever wore HAs even when he was given ones.

He was very successful and confident. More than me.
Hearing has nothing to do with being successful, in life- self esteem and intelligence does.

I am not saying it is not worth to hear and speak - as I do and I value this,
it does come handy.
But to do it at all cost, I am not sure about that...

Please consider pro and cons carefully.


Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

VamPyroX

That's right.

Cochlear implants is just something that's given to someone. Does it make that person better? That's up to that person.

Just because you get cochlear implants doesn't mean you can automatically hear and speak like a hearing person overnight. It takes time and work to get there.

They will start hearing a lot of things, but will they immediately recognize the sound? No, they won't. That's the part they have to work on.

Will they start talking like a hearing person immediately? No, they won't. They will have to go through speech therapy.

I have a deaf friend who got cochlear implants. It took her 2 years of heavy speech therapy before her voice improved enough for a hearing person to understand what she was saying.

I knew a guy who was deaf and assumed cochlear implants would "cure" him of his speech and hearing overnight. As soon as he got his cochlear implants, he immediately rejected his deaf friends and started hanging out with hearing people. He never bothered to work on his listening and speech skills. He stopped signing and would emphasize that he could "talk" just to show off to deafies. Even after four years, he still relies on his lipreading skills in order to understand what hearing people are saying and he sounds the same as he did four years ago.

__________________
Check out my city... CLICK HERE!
(If you've already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

kparocha

My son was cochlear implanted when he was five years old. He really likes it. I was not sure if I was doing the right thing for him. He is 18 years old and he told me that I did. Yes, he does not speak like me or hear 100%, but he has told me it is much better then his hearing aids. My son uses total communication. He requires an interpreter to assist him in school. He has gone to public school all his life. I was going to send him to a school for deaf children, but when I did, I was told my son did not meet the expectations of the school; which means he wasn't speaking like a "normal person." Every child / person is different.

Cheetah

Seems like you have a fairly realistic and honest view on what a CI can do for a child. The decision to implant a young child is not an easy one. I suspect your impression of the expected benefits are based on your experience with your son. I am curious, if you were to have a child today and faced with the same situation what would you do differently?

__________________
The Cheetah Consulting services
No request too small, no fee too large!
Serving the deaf world wide since yesterday.
Open daily 9 ~ 5

messymama

What an interesting question! I'll wait for reply, too!

As for me, I know I woukld start with signing from day #1. That's my biggest regret, truly, since now it seems sooo hard for him to learn that, too. And I tought of doing baby sign from the start, too... before knowing he was deaf! Then gave up because I didn't want to buy all the dvds How silly of me...

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

shel90

Each child is different. Your son may have a different personality than your older one. His deafness probably has nothing to do with it. I have two hearing children..my younger one was more difficult during his terrible twos than my older one. However, we kept firm with him and never gave in even though there were so many times we came close to. Now, he is 6 years old and knows that when we say, "no" we mean it. Sometimes he will still have his fits but generally he has started to accept it without having his fits.

Also keep up with the signing.

Good luck!

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Cheetah

I plan to sign with my kids no matter their hearing status. I've never looked at a book or DVD of baby signs, how is the baby signs different for regular ASL?

__________________
The Cheetah Consulting services
No request too small, no fee too large!
Serving the deaf world wide since yesterday.
Open daily 9 ~ 5

messymama

Well, it's not a language. Just some simple signs to help little (hearing) babies to communicate before they're able to speak.

Babies seem to pick up these signs very quickly (which shows how much visual communication is natural for ANY human being, not only deaf), and it seems to help with the develop of speech too. Some friend had tried and was enthisuastic so I was thinking about it, but then I did nothing. And that's a pity, because it would have been a good start, better anyway than no language/communication at all, which is basically what we have now! But I didn't realize my child was deaf and had relational problems before he was 18 months, so...

I wish someone told be back then how long it can take for a child to learn to sign, listen, speak. All the children out there seem to be so quick, and mine seem to be... fast as a snail... But it can happen, he's not the only one, and the last two years would have been much more relaxed if I just knew that.

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

Banjo

It sounds like the child is frustrated and is expressing it through his temper tantrums. This is very common with a deaf child if communication is somewhat limited within the family. I know you said that you do sign with the child, but it also sounds like you are doing other things. For instance, getting him to focus on your lips. Doing more than one or two things at once can be difficult for a child to deal with.

messymama

This is something interesting, too. We hearing parents tend to sign AND speak at the same time, and we often are told to do so by therapists, too. But I'm understanding this may be bad and lead to confusion.

I'm not proficient enough to just sign all the time. What would be the best approach, in your opinion? Sign only? Or sign and speak, but not contemporary?

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

Banjo

It's true, American Sign Language and English are two completely different languages. American Sign Language is a rich and complete language, just like English is. However, it is not ideal to use both at once. Can you speak English and French at once? Right, you can't. So why should you sign and speak at the same time? It's better to just sign without actually speaking, but you have to use mouth morphemes since they play an important role in communicating with ASL.

kparocha

What I know today, I would have my child implanted. We sign and voice (total communication.) More speech therapy and more reading. My son liked going to therapy, but didn't want to go anymore when it interfered with his school schedule. He has therapy at school and we do some therapy at home. So, yes if today I was told my son was deaf. I would have him cochlear implanted. I except my son being deaf, I feel if the technology is there use it.

kparocha

My uncle who is in his 70s was cochlear implanted several years ago. He tried it and never like it. My aunt gave me his processor. She thought my son could use it. It is not compatible to his implant. It is from Advance Bionics and it's name is the AURIA. I like to sell it to help pay for my son's new processor. So if anyone is interest please let me know. It is in very could shape. My uncle only used it for one month, then he said no more.
Thanks,
Kathleen

kparocha

The Auria has all it parts and more. It is in the original box. It looks brand new! Just wanted to add that information.

Cheetah

Consider donating it to your local school for the deaf. Kids often lose these things and parents often cannot afford to replace them. They just need to be reprogrammed for the individual. Of course the individual must have an existing comparable AB implant to use the external processor.

__________________
The Cheetah Consulting services
No request too small, no fee too large!
Serving the deaf world wide since yesterday.
Open daily 9 ~ 5

Grayma

Some baby signs materials may be different, but the baby sign materials I have seen do use ASL, although sometimes simplified signs I haven't usually seen in classes or other books. The sign for Mother, for example, is the thumb of the closed a hand on the chin, or the index finger on the chin.

The main difference about baby sign materials that I know of is that they focus on words babies will want to sign and that will be easy for them to sign.

I don't know if I'm telling somebody's grandmother how to suck eggs or not, so forgive me if I am, but there's a progression of developmental ability that goes along with sign- as I recall, signs using only one hand are easier, signs that come towards the body easier than signs that go away, two handed signs where the hands both do the same motion are easier than signs where the two hands are doing something different (work is easier than kitchen, for example).

A native signer wouldn't need to worry about that- if you just sign all the time, the baby's first signs will be just like a hearing child's first words- the things that he wants to communicate most and are easiest for him to say, or a 'home' version.

Hearing parents who do not sign all the time and who are signing for hearing babies prefer to focus on specific signs.

messymama

You know, it's not easy for hearing parents to find a way to mix sign and words in everyday life, especially when you still have no feedback from the child! I guess when he'll grow up and be able to use sign in a conversation, it'll come more natural for us to use them, too.

Me and my husband talked yesterday, and just realized how many times during the day we just leave him cut out from what's happening, because we only talk. We just forget, many times, if we are not talking directly to him.

I'm trying to use more SL everyday, I'm also writing a little illustrated book for him with drawings of a small signing Elf, just to make it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to read them without copying the signs (because that Elf I created is soooo cute ). It's pretty hard to draw the signs though, but I feel books are very important and he loves to look at them by hisself, so I think it's worth trying.

If we started this process from his first day, everything would be different now!

As for CI, who knows, we may end up having one for him one day, but still I have no regrets. Early implanted AVT kids around us do sooo great until 8-9 years old but many have to work harder from then on, so...

You know.
There's NO way to make this all easy going, I tell you

__________________
Proud mum of two blessings: 5yo hearing girl and 3yo profoundly deaf boy

frankiesmom

if he is doing well with the hearing aids, i would just go with that for now..frankie is slowly getting used to his, and its really enhanced his life, i think. he likes music now and he seems more aware of certain things. you dont want to do something that cant be reversed..they told me that if we had it done, it would possibly take away what hearing he does have.
frankie rips his off too when hes mad! and his glasses too.

Beach girl

How very interesting.

Banjo

It's never easy, I know.

kparocha

I made communication books for my son when he was young. I made the books for when we went to McDonalds, grocery shopping, the zoo and other places. I copied the signs and placed them around the house. You can always go to the bookstore and find sign nursery books and other books. They are pretty neat. I know making the decision to have your child CI, but like I said before, my son told me that it was the right decision for him. I made it when he was five years old. At that time I met the right doctor. Well, if there is anything I can do for you please let me know. I also have two children, one hearing and one who is deaf.

Kathleen Rocha
Texas

kat05

Kparocha, do you happen to know any sites from which I could order nursery books for signing babies?

Anij

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

GarlicPress has a number of ASL baby board books - you should be able to request them through any bookstore - including amazon.com.

Also I'd strongly recommend against bothering with "baby signs" - just use the correct ASL sign and your child will start repeating an approximation of that sign back. As their motor skills improve they will form the sign more and more accurately. When they reproduce an approximation of the sign (eg MILK), you should repeat the sign correctly and say something like "that's right, that's MILK"
(Signing and saying MILK).

As for signing and speaking - try using the pattern of "sign,then speak,the sign". For example "YOU WANT MILK?" - "do you want some milk?" "YOU WANT MILK?". This allows them to not only to learn the langauage correctly, it also allows them to focus on one thing or the other.

To learn more signs, places like aslpro.com are excellent because they have video of the signs.

There are also some great signed kids stories online - including "Llama Llama Red Pajama" done by Keith Wann - try watching these together

BTW if you are physically too far away for a Hoh/Deaf memtor to visit the house ... Consider seeing if there's a way to set up a video conference with them weekly - as well as getting some online ASL instruction.

The most importnant thing you can do right now is surround hi with signs ... It doesn't matter that you aren't fluent yet - learn and use as many signs as possible. Get the Random House dictionary of ASL (Elaine Costello) and copy the picture to post all over everything as reminders both of what the sign is and to use it.

Picture how confusing it is if out of thousands of words spoken in your home daily, you only know and can see/access a handful of signs or gestures. The more you sign (even if you make mistakes) the more you are allowing your child to connect to a language and way of expressing things.

__________________
Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD
English & ASL ...PAH!!


Ignorance is NOT Bliss