Should a pedophile be granted parental visits? - Page 8

jillio · 05-21-2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

I do know how it is SUPPOSE to work. It is broken because the court allows the so-called experts to get on opposite sides and begin to confuse everyone. It is broken because lawyers act under the guidance of "Lets put OUR expert out there and see if the jury buys it." Unless ALL the "doctors" agree, NONE should be allowed to open their mouth.

Juries are not involved in deciding whether a child has visitation with a parent.

**TXgolfer** · 05-21-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

liar! I have accessed the sites that have been posted. Just because i have not comment on them does not mean i have not accessed them.

PM sent

jillio · 05-21-2011, 08:27 PM

And that announcement would relate to this thread how?

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

I have no idea just who requires me to agree. Like I said some of it is self-serving. Do you agree with me that some is?

Yes, some of it is self-serving. They have their own agenda they are trying to promoate.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

Yes, some of it is self-serving. They have their own agenda they are trying to promoate.

I would say the links to the Bureau of Justice and the stats from Finland are relatively free of self serving motivation. They are simply reporting findings.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 08:56 PM

Psychiatrists, Criminal Justice Experts At Odds Over Handling of Pedophiles

Very interesting perspective on this link. Less than 8% reoffended in 5 years.

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I would say the links to the Bureau of Justice and the stats from Finland are relatively free of self serving motivation. They are simply reporting findings.

Sure, there are good sources of information out there.

It's tough to determine what is credible and what isn't credible for some folks. I don't know of a sure-fire way to determine what is good and what isn't other than to do extensive reading and research.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

Sure, there are good sources of information out there.

It's tough to determine what is credible and what isn't credible for some folks. I don't know of a sure-fire way to determine what is good and what isn't other than to do extensive reading and research.

Agreed. Do the reading and the research, and then form an opinion. But, I will also caution, read and research from all perspectives, and not just the one that you believe will support your current belief. There was a time that I believed that pedophilia had a high recidivism rate. Imagine how surprised I was to find the data was showing me completely the opposite.

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Agreed. Do the reading and the research, and then form an opinion. But, I will also caution, read and research from all perspectives, and not just the one that you believe will support your current belief. There was a time that I believed that pedophilia had a high recidivism rate. Imagine how surprised I was to find the data was showing me completely the opposite.

Yep, that is a good point. Be prepared to change your mind about something if the data says your theories are wrong. That seems self-evident, but it is a deceptively hard lesson for some to learn.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 09:21 PM

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/203905.pdf

This is a link to a study done by the Criminal Justice dept. They found only a 13.1 recidivism rate for a new crime committed, not necessarily a sex crime. When the data was restricted to a new sexual offense, the recidivism rates are even less. Also, this study includes only those offenders who were on probation, so that needs to be considered, as those who have been incarcerated and are not on paper were not included in the study. That would, no doubt, account for an even lower recidivism rate.

A rather lengthy study, but if one is interested in actually learning about the topic, it is worth the read.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Pedophilia, November 20, 2002, Fagan et al. 288 (19): 2458

And yet another link indicating efficacy of treatment as well as distinguishing between a diagnosis of the psychiatric disorder of pedophillia, and the behavioral manifestations, including the risk factors.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 09:56 PM

A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues

And yet another link. And I haven't even started on the professional journals yet.

**TXgolfer** · 05-21-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues

And yet another link. And I haven't even started on the professional journals yet.

Why not? After all that is what you claimed to use. Why would you post a bunch of googled links rather than post the sources you use? :weird:

rolling7 · 05-21-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

So, let's discuss them. They are very pertinent to my point.

Your first offering is from May 19, 2006....and you jump on Yiz's a being too old!

"Do the reading and the research and then form an opinion."

Here is my opinion....

"The long term recidivism for convicted pedophiles is not knows. But in a five-year follow-up study of 400 convicted pedophiles treated in the community, less than 8 percent were accused of subsequent offense."

Too you 8% might seem good. However 8% of 400 is 32....8% of 4000 is 320....and so-on. To the child anything above 0% is too much.

"But the drawback chemical treatment.......is that it is not always effective in reducing recidivism rates among child molesters. Medication only treats those offenders whose behavior is motivated by an underlying paraphilic disorder, such as pedophila."

Any treatment of any method, to the child, must be shown to be 100% effective before the offender can be around any child.

Look at it this way. Re-title this thread.
"Should a drug addict, after treatment, be allow around drugs?"
"Should an alcoholic, after treatment, be allow around alcohol?"
No treatment is known to"cure"these two. And they are just behavior against ones self.

The child's well-being is paramount. Always has been, always will be. The System must show no mercy to those who violate the innocence of the child.

rolling7 · 05-21-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues

And yet another link. And I haven't even started on the professional journals yet.

Keep them coming, you can bury me in reading them all. And I promise to read them all, maybe not comment unless you ask a specific question but, nevertheless, will read them all.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:13 PM

A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues.Full Text Available By: Hall, Ryan C. W.; Hall, Richard C. W.. Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Apr2007, Vol. 82 Issue 4, p457-471, 15p

Explanations of Pedophilia: A Four Factor Model.Full Text Available By: Finkelhor, David; Araji, Sharon. Journal of Sex Research, May86, Vol. 22 Issue 2, p145, 17p

Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Fagan, Peter J.; Wise, Thomas N.; Schmidt, Jr, Chester W.; Berlin, Fred S.. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 11/20/2002, Vol. 288 Issue 19, p2458, 8p

Perception of self and others in male sex offenders against children: Schema content and its relation to criminal sexual behaviour.Full Text Available By: Reich, Warren A.; Amit, Uri; Siegel, Harold I.. Journal of Sexual Aggression, Nov2009, Vol. 15 Issue 3, p305-317, 13p,

Recidivism in pedophiles: an investigation using different diagnostic methods.Full Text Available By: Moulden, Heather M.; Firestone, Philip; Kingston, Drew; Bradford, John. Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology, Oct2009, Vol. 20 Issue 5, p680-701, 22p

Treatment Considerations for Pedophilia.Full Text Available By: Rosenberg, Matthew. Behavioral Health Management, Jul/Aug2002, Vol. 22 Issue 4, p38, 4p

Psychopathology and Personality Traits of Pedophiles.Detail Only Available By: Cohen, Lisa J.; Gakynker, Igor. Psychiatric Times, Jun2009, Vol. 26 Issue 6, p25-30, 5p

Treatment of Pedophilia with Leuprolide Acetate: A Case Study.Full Text Available By: Raymond, Nancy; Robinson, Bean; Kraft, Chris; Rittberg, Barry; Coleman, Eli. Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality, 2001, Vol. 13 Issue 3/4, p79, 10p

More?

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Why not? After all that is what you claimed to use. Why would you post a bunch of googled links rather than post the sources you use? :weird:

So that others could easily access them on the off chance that they will actually read and understand them.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Keep them coming, you can bury me in reading them all. And I promise to read them all, maybe not comment unless you ask a specific question but, nevertheless, will read them all.

How is anyone to know that you are reading them if you are not commenting on what you are reading?

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Your first offering is from May 19, 2006....and you jump on Yiz's a being too old!

"Do the reading and the research and then form an opinion."

Here is my opinion....

"The long term recidivism for convicted pedophiles is not knows. But in a five-year follow-up study of 400 convicted pedophiles treated in the community, less than 8 percent were accused of subsequent offense."

Too you 8% might seem good. However 8% of 400 is 32....8% of 4000 is 320....and so-on. To the child anything above 0% is too much.

"But the drawback chemical treatment.......is that it is not always effective in reducing recidivism rates among child molesters. Medication only treats those offenders whose behavior is motivated by an underlying paraphilic disorder, such as pedophila."

Any treatment of any method, to the child, must be shown to be 100% effective before the offender can be around any child.

Look at it this way. Re-title this thread.
"Should a drug addict, after treatment, be allow around drugs?"
"Should an alcoholic, after treatment, be allow around alcohol?"
No treatment is known to"cure"these two. And they are just behavior against ones self.

The child's well-being is paramount. Always has been, always will be. The System must show no mercy to those who violate the innocence of the child.

2006 is current. Yiz's was from farther back than that. Plus, Yiz was citing data, I am not. It is still 8%. That also means a 92% non-recidivism rate.

Apples to oranges. No comparison whatsoever. But nice attempt at deflecting the topic.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Why not? After all that is what you claimed to use. Why would you post a bunch of googled links rather than post the sources you use? :weird:

Now, now, TXGolfer...even you should know that only cowardly bullies get together to plan a 2 man attack.

Start reading. You have less time to play games.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Your first offering is from May 19, 2006....and you jump on Yiz's a being too old!

"Do the reading and the research and then form an opinion."

Here is my opinion....

"The long term recidivism for convicted pedophiles is not knows. But in a five-year follow-up study of 400 convicted pedophiles treated in the community, less than 8 percent were accused of subsequent offense."

Too you 8% might seem good. However 8% of 400 is 32....8% of 4000 is 320....and so-on. To the child anything above 0% is too much.

"But the drawback chemical treatment.......is that it is not always effective in reducing recidivism rates among child molesters. Medication only treats those offenders whose behavior is motivated by an underlying paraphilic disorder, such as pedophila."

Any treatment of any method, to the child, must be shown to be 100% effective before the offender can be around any child.

Look at it this way. Re-title this thread.
"Should a drug addict, after treatment, be allow around drugs?"
"Should an alcoholic, after treatment, be allow around alcohol?"
No treatment is known to"cure"these two. And they are just behavior against ones self.

The child's well-being is paramount. Always has been, always will be. The System must show no mercy to those who violate the innocence of the child.

Yeppers. <8% recidivism rate. That means a >92% rate of non-recidivism. You just proved my point with my own link. Thanks!

jillio · 05-21-2011, 10:54 PM

Adult Attachment Style and Pedophilia: A Developmental Perspective.Detail Only Available By: Sawle, Gary A.; Kear-Colwell, Jon; Gary A. Sawle; Jon Kear-Colwell. International Journal of Offender Therapy & Comparative Criminology, Feb2001, Vol. 45 Issue 1, p32, 19p,

Researchers Seek Roots of Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Lamberg, Lynne. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 8/3/2005, Vol. 294

Policing Pedophilia and the Virtual Public Sphere.Detail Only Available By: Harkins, Gillian. Conference Papers -- Law & Society, 2009 Annual Meeting, p1, 0p Issue 5, p546-547

Child Molestation and Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Fuller, A. Kenneth. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 1/27/89, Vol. 261 Issue 4, p602-606

A logical functional analysis of reinforcement-based disorders: Alcoholism and pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Wulfert, Edelgard; Greenway, David E.. Journal of Consulting & Clinical Psychology, Dec96, Vol. 64 Issue 6, p1140, 10p

L}euprolide Acetate Suppresses Pedophilic Urges and Arousability.Full Text Available By: Schober, Justine M.; Kuhn, Phyllis J.; Kovacs, Paul G.; Earle, James H.; Byrne, Peter M.; Fries, Ruth A.. Archives of Sexual Behavior, Dec2005, Vol. 34 Issue 6, p691-705, 15p

Epidemiology and Treatment of Juvenile Sexual Offending.Full Text Available By: Gerardin, Priscille; Thibaut, Florence. Pediatric Drugs, 2004, Vol. 6 Issue 2, p79-91, 13p

Correcting Pedophilia.Full Text Available By: Kersebaum, Sabine. Scientific American Mind, Feb/Mar2007, Vol. 18 Issue 1, p62-62

Review of: Pedophilia and Sexual Offending Against Children: Theory, Assessment, and Intervention.Detail Only Available By: Kalmbach, Karen C.. Journal of Forensic Sciences (Blackwell Publishing Limited), Sep2008, Vol. 53 Issue 5, p1231-1232

The Screening Scale for Pedophilic Interests Predicts Recidivism Among Adult Sex Offenders With Child Victims.Full Text Available By: Seto, Michael C.; Harris, Grant T.; Rice, Marnie E.; Barbaree, Howard E.. Archives of Sexual Behavior, Oct2004, Vol. 33 Issue 5, p455-466

That should keep you guys busy for awhile. Let me know when you are ready for more.

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Why not? After all that is what you claimed to use. Why would you post a bunch of googled links rather than post the sources you use? :weird:

It's a place to start.

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

"Should a drug addict, after treatment, be allow around drugs?"
"Should an alcoholic, after treatment, be allow around alcohol?"
No treatment is known to"cure"these two. And they are just behavior against ones self.

I don't agree with this. These diseases affect families of the affected person. They affect victim of crimes commited by them too, such as DUI. They affect productivity of businesses. And so on.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

I don't agree with this. These diseases affect families of the affected person. They affect victim of crimes commited by them too, such as DUI. They affect productivity of businesses. And so on.

Yes, they do. And...they are diseases of addiction. Pedophillia is not a disease of addiction. Therefore, one cannot compare it, in recidivism rates or treatment modality and efficacy, to addiction.

rolling7 · 05-21-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

How is anyone to know that you are reading them if you are not commenting on what you are reading?

Nitpick! Others who read them might/might not comment, and, how would you know they read yours. I'm not alone here in thinking not every post needs to be mentioned.

jillio · 05-21-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Nitpick! Others who read them might/might not comment, and, how would you know they read yours. I'm not alone here in thinking not every post needs to be mentioned.

Shouldn't you be reading?

rolling7 · 05-21-2011, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yeppers. <8% recidivism rate. That means a >92% rate of non-recidivism. You just proved my point with my own link. Thanks!

And you just prove my point that an additional 32 child's life will be destroyed..

jillio · 05-21-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

And you just prove my point that an additional 32 child's life will be destroyed..

Nope. Not at all. My point was that recidivism rates for pedophillia were very low and that it was ameniable to treatment. I have proven that several times over. Keep reading. It will come clear.

Glenn · 05-21-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Nitpick! Others who read them might/might not comment, and, how would you know they read yours. I'm not alone here in thinking not every post needs to be mentioned.

It doesn't need to be a 30-page essay. You can ask a question about something in a linked article if you want clarification or something like that.

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05-21-2011, 08:27 PM	#213 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	And that announcement would relate to this thread how?

05-21-2011, 08:56 PM	#216 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Psychiatrists, Criminal Justice Experts At Odds Over Handling of Pedophiles Very interesting perspective on this link. Less than 8% reoffended in 5 years.

05-21-2011, 09:21 PM	#220 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/203905.pdf This is a link to a study done by the Criminal Justice dept. They found only a 13.1 recidivism rate for a new crime committed, not necessarily a sex crime. When the data was restricted to a new sexual offense, the recidivism rates are even less. Also, this study includes only those offenders who were on probation, so that needs to be considered, as those who have been incarcerated and are not on paper were not included in the study. That would, no doubt, account for an even lower recidivism rate. A rather lengthy study, but if one is interested in actually learning about the topic, it is worth the read.

05-21-2011, 09:49 PM	#221 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Pedophilia, November 20, 2002, Fagan et al. 288 (19): 2458 And yet another link indicating efficacy of treatment as well as distinguishing between a diagnosis of the psychiatric disorder of pedophillia, and the behavioral manifestations, including the risk factors.

05-21-2011, 09:56 PM	#222 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues And yet another link. And I haven't even started on the professional journals yet.

05-21-2011, 10:13 PM	#226 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues.Full Text Available By: Hall, Ryan C. W.; Hall, Richard C. W.. Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Apr2007, Vol. 82 Issue 4, p457-471, 15p Explanations of Pedophilia: A Four Factor Model.Full Text Available By: Finkelhor, David; Araji, Sharon. Journal of Sex Research, May86, Vol. 22 Issue 2, p145, 17p Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Fagan, Peter J.; Wise, Thomas N.; Schmidt, Jr, Chester W.; Berlin, Fred S.. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 11/20/2002, Vol. 288 Issue 19, p2458, 8p Perception of self and others in male sex offenders against children: Schema content and its relation to criminal sexual behaviour.Full Text Available By: Reich, Warren A.; Amit, Uri; Siegel, Harold I.. Journal of Sexual Aggression, Nov2009, Vol. 15 Issue 3, p305-317, 13p, Recidivism in pedophiles: an investigation using different diagnostic methods.Full Text Available By: Moulden, Heather M.; Firestone, Philip; Kingston, Drew; Bradford, John. Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology, Oct2009, Vol. 20 Issue 5, p680-701, 22p Treatment Considerations for Pedophilia.Full Text Available By: Rosenberg, Matthew. Behavioral Health Management, Jul/Aug2002, Vol. 22 Issue 4, p38, 4p Psychopathology and Personality Traits of Pedophiles.Detail Only Available By: Cohen, Lisa J.; Gakynker, Igor. Psychiatric Times, Jun2009, Vol. 26 Issue 6, p25-30, 5p Treatment of Pedophilia with Leuprolide Acetate: A Case Study.Full Text Available By: Raymond, Nancy; Robinson, Bean; Kraft, Chris; Rittberg, Barry; Coleman, Eli. Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality, 2001, Vol. 13 Issue 3/4, p79, 10p More?

05-21-2011, 10:54 PM	#232 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Adult Attachment Style and Pedophilia: A Developmental Perspective.Detail Only Available By: Sawle, Gary A.; Kear-Colwell, Jon; Gary A. Sawle; Jon Kear-Colwell. International Journal of Offender Therapy & Comparative Criminology, Feb2001, Vol. 45 Issue 1, p32, 19p, Researchers Seek Roots of Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Lamberg, Lynne. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 8/3/2005, Vol. 294 Policing Pedophilia and the Virtual Public Sphere.Detail Only Available By: Harkins, Gillian. Conference Papers -- Law & Society, 2009 Annual Meeting, p1, 0p Issue 5, p546-547 Child Molestation and Pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Fuller, A. Kenneth. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 1/27/89, Vol. 261 Issue 4, p602-606 A logical functional analysis of reinforcement-based disorders: Alcoholism and pedophilia.Detail Only Available By: Wulfert, Edelgard; Greenway, David E.. Journal of Consulting & Clinical Psychology, Dec96, Vol. 64 Issue 6, p1140, 10p L}euprolide Acetate Suppresses Pedophilic Urges and Arousability.Full Text Available By: Schober, Justine M.; Kuhn, Phyllis J.; Kovacs, Paul G.; Earle, James H.; Byrne, Peter M.; Fries, Ruth A.. Archives of Sexual Behavior, Dec2005, Vol. 34 Issue 6, p691-705, 15p Epidemiology and Treatment of Juvenile Sexual Offending.Full Text Available By: Gerardin, Priscille; Thibaut, Florence. Pediatric Drugs, 2004, Vol. 6 Issue 2, p79-91, 13p Correcting Pedophilia.Full Text Available By: Kersebaum, Sabine. Scientific American Mind, Feb/Mar2007, Vol. 18 Issue 1, p62-62 Review of: Pedophilia and Sexual Offending Against Children: Theory, Assessment, and Intervention.Detail Only Available By: Kalmbach, Karen C.. Journal of Forensic Sciences (Blackwell Publishing Limited), Sep2008, Vol. 53 Issue 5, p1231-1232 The Screening Scale for Pedophilic Interests Predicts Recidivism Among Adult Sex Offenders With Child Victims.Full Text Available By: Seto, Michael C.; Harris, Grant T.; Rice, Marnie E.; Barbaree, Howard E.. Archives of Sexual Behavior, Oct2004, Vol. 33 Issue 5, p455-466 That should keep you guys busy for awhile. Let me know when you are ready for more.