jtajlj

Hi All,

Not sure where to post this so I opted for parenting MODS can move it if needed.

My fiance has a 20 month old son and is currently living at home with her parents. She is trying to be the best mother she can be and I am trying to be the best father figure I can be however when we make a decision about her son her parents constantly over rule us.

For example this morning I came over and was helping get her out the door to school and him to the baby sitter. Her mother works from home and has to be in her office at 6AM I had to grab him to keep him from going down the stairs which is nothing new. However he procedded to bite me which is a habit we are trying to break him of. I popped the pamper not hard just enough to shock him. Her mother goes off and screams at me and threatens me that I better be glad he had bite me cause if I popped the pamper for no reason she would have killed me.

Jenn and I are both tired of being over ruled when it comes to him but when she says something its well if you don't want my opionon don't ask. Thing is we didn't ask they just constantly decide that they are right on every thing.

Another example he has bad eczema and had an out break on his arm they both wanted us to rush him to the ER however we already called his doctor and was told give him Zertec and bring him in on Monday (this was a Saturday) and if it starts to effect his breathing or gets worse take him to the ER. They started trying to self diagnose and kept saying he needs to go to the ER. We are both EMTs and didn't think it was that bad trust me if we did he would have been at the ER. On Sunday we work the nursery at church he stayed at home with Grandpa and Grandma we get this call that his arm is swollen and he needs to go to the ER now so we get a replacement for work and take off. We get home and its slightly swollen but not bad we called the Dr again and was told thats normal and to come in Monday. We did bring him in on Monday and its nothing to be concerned about.

What can we do to get her parents to let us be the parents. Jenn uses the comment of he came out of my vagina he's my son not theirs.

Deafness

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Mrs Bucket

Hmm.. that's a good question.

You know grandparents are there for a good reason. They are there whether we like it or not. I'm expecting twins and I know my parents are going to be my mentors for my children.

Spanking a 20 month old baby is not something I condone. You see, they are learning behaviours that's right or wrong. Biting is one of them.

You need to let him know biting is a no-no by saying "Ouch! That hurts!" or say "No biting!".. children learn what they see.

Spanking a 20 month old for biting is not going to stop him from biting; it's going to encourage him to bite more. The more you spank him for biting; the more you reinforce into his mind that biting equates spanking. Spanking can cause delayed toilet training and you don't want that to happen.

I'm just going to tell you that grandparents are built-in parents whether you like it or not. The first reaction grandparents see when their grandchildren is being harmed, they are going to react out of emotion and want to protect their grandchildren whether you like it or not.

Try to sit down and talk with Grandma and communicate with her. Have Grandma share her perspective about spanking and work it out with her. The last thing you ever want to is to destroy a relationship between a grandchild and grandparent.

Hope this helps.

jtajlj

I understand that some don't condone spanking and I respect that fact however My Fiance, her father and I all believe in spanking.

Our issue is reversed Ouch that hurts and biting is a no no doesn't stop him that just makes him do it more. Spanking however stops him. We don't spank hard and we only hit in the butt through the pamper and only 3 times.

We understand he is learning but talking to him about the issue doesn't work.

His grandfather is supportive of how we handle him for the most part as his response is the same as ours.

Mrs Bucket

Hmm.. have you had his hearing tested? Sometimes children that do not listen or respond to parents usually indicate a hearing loss or a behavioural symptom of something underlying.

Have you considered a family meeting between parents and grandparents?

Just a suggestion.

dogmom

punishment <spanking> may suppress a behavior but it won't really change anything for the long-term and it will cause other problems that will be bigger when he is older. Just because someone does something or something appears to "work" doesn't make it appropriate-

jtajlj

Funny you should say that about the hearing.

He is responding much better to sign language then spoken. His baby sitter uses baby signing time and my ex was a Sign Language Interpreter I am a card carrying supporting member of both RID and FRID (Florida Registered Interpreters for the Deaf) and I am HoH myself. When I sign to him his face lights up and he responses much better. He has recently been saying more juice via ASL and loves the fact that someone understands him. However at all most 2 years old his verbal skills are very MLS he might know 12 - 16 spoken words.

Reba

To start with, roles, with their attendant authority, have to be established. As long as the two of you aren't married, and Jenn lives with her parents, that will be difficult to do.

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Mrs Bucket

I encourage you to stick with ASL and discipline with ASL rather than with your hands. It is the most loving thing you can ever do for your child as a parent.

rockin'robin

Both Ms Bucket & Reba have given excellent advise, hope you will adhere to it....
Spanking a 20 month old is something I woud not do. Ur child is almost in the "terrible 2's"....There will be other "little habits" that he/she will pick up from other babies the same age (at day care, etc.)....The grandparents may seem to be "overly concerned" over their grandchild, but that is normal.

jtajlj

Me and her mother had a chat earlier she was not aware he had bit me until after she had already started to scream at me. She had thought I popped the pamper cause he wouldn't let grandma go to work (she works from home and the office is downstairs in the extra bedroom of a split-level home) he was sitting at the top of the stair case with the door shut and she thought I spanked him over that.

FireTiger

New rule: (Dir Sir and Mam) Never scream at me in front of my child, it upsets him- and me- and makes it harder for the lesson to -stick-.

If you have a concern, wait till I have a moment of time and talk to me about it in a separate room.

This way you will not scare (him/her) by yelling and I can get your valuable input so we can discuss our parenting style.

We might have different styles, but as far as discipline we all need to be consistent- it is the best way to show him what the rules are.

sallylou

Biting is a common behavior in toddlerhood. My kids were both the biter and the bitee at different times. Spanking is aggressive behavior that will only escalate the child's frustration. A baby that age has to learn to soothe himself. The baby has to learn how to tolerate frustration and calm down. It's a learned skill. If you are calm and soothing, the baby will model your behavior and learn faster.

Does the child have a special comfy, like a blankey? Have that blanket handy for him when he needs it. Is there something that stressful that triggers the tantrum? Make sure that you don't put the baby in a situation that is too stressful for him. Often a child this age will get frustrated when a parent does not allow independence and autonomy. If the child wants to do something, let him do it himself. Yes, I know that it takes longer and you're in a hurry. Allow extra time for everything.

Most importantly, praise the kid when he does something good. Say things like "I really like how you put your shoes on like a big boy." Stickers work wonders, too. Give him a sticker whenever he cooperates. Put them on his hands, the car seat, where ever he likes them. You can make a chart and he can earn a special treat, like 10 stickers is a trip to the ice cream store for a cone. This positively reinforces good behavior, which is far more effective than punishment.

I would advise you not to correct the child with corporal punishment. Legally, you are not the child's parent. The mother has custody of the child and she is the person who is legally responsible for the care of the child. The grandparents could legally challenge your authority over the child, depending on the law in your particular jurisdiction. Any bruises or injuries could be reported. In fact, the day care has a legal duty to report bruises and injuries. You would be wise to focus building a relationship with the child and the grandparents. Having some fun family time with the child and grandparents would help a lot. A trip to the zoo? A kid party in the back yard? This is the fun part!

Good luck! It takes time to build a relationship with everyone. You'll get there.

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jtajlj

1.) When I spank him I am acting on the request of the Mother and the Grandfather to correct him and it involved the words of pop the pamper out of their mouths.

2.) If spanking is so wrong explain to me why I have a friend who is the Chief Magistrate for the State and know several State Troopers who have all said as long as you don't make it to where they can't sit down you can spank between the knees and the waist on the backside.

I am only asking cause I am hearing a lot of don't spank your child however I am hearing from people with the knowledge of the law in my state that its perfectly fine as long as you don't cross a certain point.

Mrs Bucket

I am sorry to disagree with you there..even there'ss law says spanking is child abuse in other countries.

Why would you, an adult, with the capacity of such brute force want to deliver a spanking that could terrorize a small child under 20 lbs?

I totally disagree with that.

radioman

first of all- the baby and mother is in WHOSE house?! NOT YOURS!!

I understand what you are saying, but when you are in someone else's home or public place, with all the stupid laws you gotta be on your best behavior, doesn't matter if you like it or not. You do have rights, but it can turn ugly fast in someone else's home.

Do YOU want to be free to do what you want within reason? then get your own place with the mother and baby, then you can complain here all you want. Otherwise, since the mother and baby is under someone else's home(the grandparents and they are there for a reason right? financial reasons I bet) you just don't have any rights to complain- its a privilege to have a safe, secure home for baby since its NOT your place. I am sorry to say, but I'm trying to say this in a nice way- bite your tongue for now.

Remember- you are the father so you are already "borned" into the family and she is your forever mother in law until (god forbid) child passes away.

Do you see what I am saying? what you say and do now will have an impact for rest of your life. Don't do anything you might regret.

Banjo

The only solution I see here is for the mother and her child to move out of her parents' house whether you can afford it or not.

sallylou

Not only is hitting someone teaching that violence is the correct way to solve problems, it isn't effective. I'm trained as a teacher and I know how kids learn. Sometimes people want to spank kids because teaching kids *how to behave* takes a lot of time and effort, as opposed to hitting them.

Consider what it does to your relationship with the child. The parent, on whom the child is totally dependent, becomes the person who assaults him. Would you rather a child see you as a person who teaches or a person who resorts to violence? It may be legal in your jurisdiction but that doesn't make it right. The "it didn't hurt me none" argument is a pathetic excuse.

In this, you're not even the parent of the child. If my kid's boyfriend, who wasn't the father of her child, hit my grandchild, I'd go ballistic. Statistically, the risk of child abuse goes up dramatically when a boyfriend who is not the father cares for a child. You're probably a good person, but would I want to take that chance with a defenseless toddler?

Bajo is right. The solution is to move your girlfriend and her child into your home. If you aren't ready for that responsibility, you're not ready the be a parent.

I hope that you gets all of this sorted out soon. It sounds like the current arrangement is dysfunctional and that's not good for anyone, including you.

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jillio

I have seen several good points raised here. I want to add that if you don't want grandparent's interference, then you need to do what is necessary to move out of their home. As long as you are living with them, you are accepting their help. As long as you are accepting their help on one level, they will feel the right to interfere with child raising. After all, the child is under their roof, and they have to live with the consequences of that, so they feel that their input is justified.

The best solution? Become independent so that you are not putting yourself in the position you are currently in.

Juli-terp-to-be

My son was a horrible biter. He was doing it way into age 3 maybe 4. It might sound strange but the only way I got him to stop was biting him back. Not anything too hard, but enough to make him pause. You could see on his face him thinking "Hey, that hurt! I don't like that!"

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jtajlj

If we can catch him before he bites down we will flip it and put it hand in his mouth and let him bite but that doesn't seem to be working either

FireTiger

While mom was a teacher of 'OHI' and 'ASD' children she kept those Listerine little disolving papers fresh packs for something- anyhow they melt on your tounge...


These are particularity nasty tasting and non allergenic. (kids over 5 only)

Banjo

Um, are you saying that she used these to punish the students?

Mrs Bucket

I would hope not!

Bottesini

I can't believe it would be sanctioned by any school.

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Anij

Spanking a 20month old isn't teaching them not to bite - it's teaching them that the way to deal with problems is by hitting others and that adults have permission to hit/hurt you if they want.

Think of this from a infant's/ toddler's eyes:
If he does something you see as wrong, you hit him (call whatever you want, it's still hitting). The cause and effect lesson he learns is: the way to deal with people who do something you don't like is to hit them. He then carries this learn with him, so when he plays with his friends and they take a toy he wants, or does something he doesn't like he uses the technique that you taught him - HE hits them (because you've shown him that hitting is the correct way to manage conflict)

The reality is that almost all toddlers go through a biting phases - for the most part they aren't trying to be mean, or hurt people... they're learning very important developmental lessons - including how their actions impact others, and how sensations work etc. For the first years of their lives they are ENCOURAGED to chew, bite etc ... because they're cutting teeth, learning to chew foods etc - each chewy/teething item, each food has a different "feel" when they bite it ... as do their fingers when they suck, chew on them. At a certain point they start wondering if how it feels to chew/bite other people's fingers etc - not to HURT them, just to see how it feels/what it does. Keep in mind that when they chew on their OWN fingers, they get instant feedback on how hard they're biting themselves - a built in "warning system" that they are going to hurt themselves, so they know to stop biting harder. This "warning" is completely absent if they chew/bite someone else's skin (of course) - however THEY don't understand that - they don't understand that in the way adults do - they don't necessarily understand that if they bite someone and you say it HURTS that it really HURTS YOU (because they're often thinking, "no, it's not hurting me at all ...and when I bit my fingers like this is DOESN'T hurt either - it must be a GAME!!"

The bottom line, is that biting is a developmental STAGE - is a NATURAL (very frustrating for the parent) stage, that DOES need to be managed of course - but honestly spanking isn't sending them an understandable message at all.

It's also worth pointing out that the only people in recent history who've ever been "allowed" to use spanking is parents/guardians (of which BTW, you're currently neither, and legally you could be in a HEAP of trouble for striking this kid because it's not yours). Daycare workers, preschool teachers, babysitters, nannies etc ... none of them are allowed to use any sort of physical punishment (spanking, slapping, hitting etc) - and honestly having looked after infants, toddlers, young children, teens for the last 15+years there has NEVER once been a time in which hitting/spanking was a "good way" or the most effective way to manage the problem. There is ALWAYS an alternative to hitting, always. It's up to the parent/caregiver to be mature and responsible enough to figure out a better means of correcting the child - in a way that makes sense to that child.

Hitting a child teaches that child that violence is the best solution ('act first, think later' management strategies)


Honestly I'd really recommend that you and your fiancee seriously consider taking some parenting classes. I'm not saying this because of the spanking (though it's certainly a factor) - but mainly because it will help you both become better parents to this child, give you strong skills and make sure you are working together in a way that is beneficial for the two of you as parents, as well as for this child. Taking parenting classes together also shows the grandparents that you are committed to raising this child together and using positive parenting methods. The classes will also give you material which you can then share with the grandparents so that everyone is on the "same page" and asserts the mother (and your) roles as parents, and theirs as grandparents.

Regarding the information you got that states as long as you don't hit them hard enough that they can't sit .... to be blunt - they're wrong. It might be their personal opinion, or it might be that if you were taken to court you might not be convicted of child abuse etc, but if you talk to child and family services they will tell you something VERY different than "you can hit them as long as you don't beat them hard enough that they can't sit".

Frankly, the idea that anyone would think it's alright to hit an infant/toddler - as long as they stop before they injure them to the point they physically are in so much pain that they can't sit (either due to bruising, beating the skin red, or in some cases because the blows have actaully broken/fracture the tailbone/coccyx) , that makes me ill. It reminds me too much of the "rule of thumb" - which long before it was a "saying" really was a "rule", which stated you could not hit/ beat your wife or children with a stick/switch that was thicker than your thumb)

I know that in most (if not all) of Canada, and the USA daycare workers, teachers, clergy, medical staff, and anyone who works with children is required by law to officially report any "suspicious: marks, bruises & signs of injury or abuse" as well as report if they see and adult hit/spank child, or if a child says they've been hit. I also know that you can spank a child where there are visible marks (redness, bruising etc) long before they are injured to the point they cannot sit down.


You may be interested in reading this article on the damage spanking can do: Why not to spank The article also lists a number of books how to discipline without violence/spanking etc. many of which are available for loan at public libraries.

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Oceanbreeze

Corporal punishment is carried out in districts here in the deep south; especially those states that are apart of the Bible belt. However, I believe they need written permission from the parents to carry it out.

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Oceanbreeze

I posted to Bott without reading up first. At any rate, I would certainly hope that Listerine strips weren't being used to discipline children!

Wow!

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"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

Oceanbreeze

Side stepping the spanking debate, I will say this to the OP.... People here are spot on regarding their perspective about living on someone elses' turf.

If you are being supported by her parents, then you must move her and the baby out of there. You cannot expect to assert your authority while in the Grandparents home. It's like having too many hands in the cookie jar; very hard to get on the same page regarding such matters with so many differing opinions and such.

If you want to assert your right as stepfather to that child, you must get a J.O.B., put aside the money for a place to live, and then, move out and GET MARRIED. Once on your own, you'll need to make sure you'll be able to make it on your own without the help of the Grandparents. As long as they are helping out financially, they have say in what happens to the kid; especially with the Mom and child under their roof.

My advice is get that job and get married asap. Then, make sure you can be self supporting without the help of her parents. If SHE has a problem with separating from her parents, then SHE needs counseling for the good of that child.

Good luck. This is NOT a good situation for you.

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"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

Steinhauer

Move out of their house.

radioman

CLAP CLAP CLAP !!!! bravo- well said!!!