Deaf and mute crap....

dereksbicycles · 02-28-2012, 11:18 PM

Why does people have to use deaf and mute???

Derek Troy | Facebook

dereksbicycles · 02-28-2012, 11:24 PM

Ethical Treatment Pit Bulls

Fb friend Duana with her dog. Duana has a deaf, mute neighbor. The neighbor always looks down when he passes Duana on the street. But when she is with her dog, her dog goes to the neighbor and gives him a dog hug and the neighbor lights up with a big smile and points to the dog!

Yeah, it's nice when dogs do good things, but it hurts to see deaf mute stuffs being written. I guess we get used to it.

drphil · 02-29-2012, 11:21 PM

Derek: Is the person part of the section called-Voice off Deaf?
As you might recall-discussed here in AllDeaf.com.

**TXgolfer** · 02-29-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dereksbicycles

Ethical Treatment Pit Bulls

Fb friend Duana with her dog. Duana has a deaf, mute neighbor. The neighbor always looks down when he passes Duana on the street. But when she is with her dog, her dog goes to the neighbor and gives him a dog hug and the neighbor lights up with a big smile and points to the dog!

Yeah, it's nice when dogs do good things, but it hurts to see deaf mute stuffs being written. I guess we get used to it.

What term or phrase would you prefer? (Curious)

dereksbicycles · 03-01-2012, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

What term or phrase would you prefer? (Curious)

Deaf mute neighbor.

Why mention that this person is deaf and mute???

rockin'robin · 03-01-2012, 07:40 PM

Personally, I don't like the word "mute".and IMO, it makes it seem the deafie cannot converse at all, even in ASL or written ASL/English.....Hearies assume that "mute" is "dumb"....

If only hearies knew just how intelligent and capable we deafies really are....there have been many times in my life whe I've said "I'm deaf."....and the hearie just flips me off with a hand wave and turns to my son....and I CORRECT that person!....saying that "I'm the adult, not the child, my son is not an intrepretor....and you are not to treat me like a child or a 2nd class citizen!"....

Maybe, in some people's opinion, that was extremely rude....but in my opinion, it was the right thing to do, after being treated this way numerous times.....

**sequoias** · 03-01-2012, 07:49 PM

Would be better to call them "deaf" period. It doesn't mean they're silent. They can be hella loud at times! LOL *droning continues*

rockin'robin · 03-02-2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sequoias

Would be better to call them "deaf" period. It doesn't mean they're silent. They can be hella loud at times! LOL *droning continues*

awwww....shut up, Sequoias! I can hear ya LOL'ing way down here in Florida....

**sequoias** · 03-02-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

awwww....shut up, Sequoias! I can hear ya LOL'ing way down here in Florida....

Not that loud, lol.

Anij · 03-02-2012, 10:53 PM

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold )

Here's the thing ...

While I totally agree that a newspapaer etc referring to someone as "deaf and mute" is unneccessary, because really 99% of the time "deaf" works just fine.

I DO understand that "mute" as a medical definition is someone who is not only unable to, or unwilling to use spoken language but ALSO unable (physically or emotionally/trauma induced) to produce a sounds/noise (scream,cry, anything) at all.

For example if someone has throat cancer and their voicebox etc is removed, they are "mute".

There are of course a tiny minority of Deaf who are physically unable to speak (I'm not meaning they have difficult to understand speech, I mean they aren't able to produce ANY noise etc due to medical issues or some massive emotional trauma etc)

That all being said, I also think "mute" is leaps and bounds better and more appropriate than the term "dumb", which long before it was an insult which means "stupid", was what we now call "mute".

As a Hoh/Deaf person, I cringe at the "mute" thing, especially when it's written/said in a context which is either presumtuous (ie the reporter ASSuming that all deaf people, or deaf who sign cannot speak) or entirely irrelavent (ie who cares that the person in the article you cited was deaf, let alone deaf AND "mute".
At the same time, I'm also greatful that the ignorant writer didn't use "deaf and dumb" - a phrase which in contemporary articles/reports etc absolutely makes me fume and see red.

drphil · 03-09-2012, 08:14 AM

How do the persons who decide to become "voice off" (can speak) fit the above re: "mute"?

Anij · 03-09-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drphil

How do the persons who decide to become "voice off" (can speak) fit the above re: "mute"?

"Mute" refers to someone who has a physiological condition which prevents them from being able to form speech or meaningful vocalizations - for example if someone has had a form of cancer or tumour which has required the removal of the voice box, or an injury which paralyses or damages the vocal cords.

In some cases extreme emotional trauma (or physical brain injury) will cause someone to become temporarily mute, because of the way the brain itself has reacted to that trauma.

"voice off" is a choice that someone who is able to from speech-sounds makes.
There are a number of reasons people elect to go "voice off", including:

They have a lot of difficultly producing speech which is clear enough to be understood by family, friends and espeically strangers.

They feel very self-conscious or have been made to feel embarrassed about the way they sound, especially if people have mocked, teased or made generally cruel or unkind comments about their speech.

Situations have repeatedly occurred in which the hoh/d/Deaf person has interacted with hearing people who upon hear their voice decides that the Hoh/d/Deaf person is severely mentally delayed and begins treating them as such, even when told outright that the person's speech is because they are hoh/d/Deaf, not due to any type of "mental defect"

In situations like this - people may decide to go "voice off" either in certain situations, or entirely and instead use text, gesture and sign language to communicate.

I hope that helps?

drphil · 04-10-2012, 08:48 AM

I believe there are comments here in AllDeaf.com about DEAF persons who can speak and "decide" to become "voice off". Ostensibly- one Savor quietness.

I acknowledge one can "decide" to become "voice off" is a free choice one can effect.
What "others construe" of the "voice off" group=interesting to the discussion of "deaf and dumb".

More discussion in Sociology.

Pidgin · 05-02-2012, 12:40 PM

Deaf Mute means can't speak - can't hear. If you look at the sign for deaf, the movement from mouth toward the ear, basically the sign says deaf-mute, (pointing to mouth and ear) can't speak - can't hear, as you are pointing at both mouth then ear. It's like the sign for hearing, with the words continually rolling out of the mouth of the person. Daf mute goes back 100 + years ...I'm surprised people still use the old terminology.

Pidgin

God Bless the litle children while they are still too young to hate. --- Tom T. Hall

**Bottesini** · 05-02-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Deaf Mute means can't speak - can't hear. If you look at the sign for deaf, the movement from mouth toward the ear, basically the sign says deaf-mute, (pointing to mouth and ear) can't speak - can't hear, as you are pointing at both mouth then ear. It's like the sign for hearing, with the words continually rolling out of the mouth of the person. Daf mute goes back 100 + years ...I'm surprised people still use the old terminology.

Pidgin

God Bless the litle children while they are still too young to hate. --- Tom T. Hall

green427 · 05-02-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Deaf Mute means can't speak - can't hear. If you look at the sign for deaf, the movement from mouth toward the ear, basically the sign says deaf-mute, (pointing to mouth and ear) can't speak - can't hear, as you are pointing at both mouth then ear. It's like the sign for hearing, with the words continually rolling out of the mouth of the person. Daf mute goes back 100 + years ...I'm surprised people still use the old terminology.

Pidgin

God Bless the litle children while they are still too young to hate. --- Tom T. Hall

Really? Tell me more!!!

**Bottesini** · 05-02-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green427

Really? Tell me more!!!

**Smithtr** · 05-04-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green427

Really? Tell me more!!!

drphil · 05-04-2012, 10:09 PM

Is "pidgin" part of ASL?

Pidgin · 05-05-2012, 01:09 PM

Pidgin is my screen name ... it's what I know and who I am.

Is DrPhil part of ASL ??

Pidgin

God Bless the little children while they are still too young to hate. -- Tom T. Hall

**Bottesini** · 05-05-2012, 01:12 PM

Is Pidgin hearing?

Pidgin · 05-05-2012, 01:18 PM

Sometimes ........ Depends on the sounds I guess .......... I can definitely hear sirens, gunshots and shooting !!

Pidgin

Pay cash -- Starve a bank.

**Bottesini** · 05-05-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Sometimes ........ Depends on the sounds I guess .......... I can definitely hear sirens, gunshots and shooting !!

Pidgin

Pay cash -- Starve a bank.

We actually know you are a hearing ASL student...

Obfuscation

**Smithtr** · 05-05-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Sometimes ........ Depends on the sounds I guess .......... I can definitely hear sirens, gunshots and shooting !!

Pidgin

Pay cash -- Starve a bank.

you learn it on deaf cutlures

you we know everything know many!

hearing confused asl how on hear how make reason!, I thin so you are confused! I think so she is not know! I thinks hearing person not experience limit or expertiment skills how hear!

drphil · 05-06-2012, 08:44 AM

" Pidgin" is a "variant" on English-I understand. Using it as a "screen name" here-another factor not relevant to the question of pidgin re ASL.

drphil is a computer code to his website: drphil.com. Mentioned before: a joke in VampireFreaks.com. Right: retired Goth!

To the best of my knowledge- Philip C McGraw is not DEAF and doesn't talk about "deaf culture" on his TV shows.

The dictionary definition-Oxford Canadian- page 610: a simplified form of English or another language,containing elements of local language(s) and used for communication (eg in parts of the Far East) between people speaking different languages. pidgin English.

Thus my query: used in ASL?

Pidgin · 05-12-2012, 03:44 PM

Well DrPhil ......... This time you are wrong ...so you can go backstage and suck your thumb and pout.

Pidgin is the unofficial language of the hawaiian islands ...... So much for DrPhil showing off his uneducated opinion .......... we all know about opinions ............... to continue:
"Pidgin is a beautiful, expressive language. It was originally created so that the immigrants, the Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese and Filipinos as well as the Hawaiians and the Americans could do business. What evolved is a true language."

Dr. Phil Mcgraw is a hearie, doesn't know any asl or sign and doesn't care about the deaf community. He is too busy being famous, making money and being promoted by Oprah ............

So sorry Bottesini ... I am not an an ASL student, nor a student anywhere. I'm too old for wanting to be a college student again ..........
I was in a college once .... while there I tutored computers, computer programming and data base analysis to all the deaf students in the college taking those curriculum courses.

Pidgin

There is someone inside my head,
Who is looking at someone inside my head,
Who is looking at the someone who is looking at someone inside my head ....

**GrendelQ** · 05-12-2012, 03:55 PM

Pidgin, that was a bit rude. A harsh approach to take, jumping onto a deaf forum to call a very well-read deaf member of the community uneducated. Maybe you need to turn the tables and accept a bit of tutoring from those who are deaf, now.

'Hawaiian Pidgin' is what you describe, and it's one of many pidgin languages all over the world. Pidgin, however, is as drphil described. [edit to add: drphil is not the TV personality you mention] And he's not a 'hearie,' he's quite decidedly DEAF

.

Quote:

pidgin, noun
[often as modifier]
a grammatically simplified form of a language, typically English, Dutch, or Portuguese, some elements of which are taken from local languages, used for communication between people not sharing a common language.
(Pidgin)another term for Tok Pisin.
[as modifier] denoting a simplified form of a language, especially as used by a non-native speaker:
we exchanged greetings, communicating in pidgin Spanish

Origin:
late 19th century: Chinese alteration of English business

Pidgin · 05-12-2012, 04:08 PM

Dr. Phil Mcgraw is a hearie ... Please re-read my post ....

Rude seems to be the new normal everywhere ..... The world is full of hate and rudeness .....

Pidgin

There is someone inside my head,
Who is looking at someone inside my head,
Who is looking at the someone who is looking at someone inside my head ....

**GrendelQ** · 05-12-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Dr. Phil Mcgraw is a hearie ...

drphil is not Dr. Phil Mcgraw, sorry, I didn't realize you needed that pointed out.

Rude is not normal.

green427 · 05-12-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pidgin

Well DrPhil ......... This time you are wrong ...so you can go backstage and suck your thumb and pout.

Pidgin is the unofficial language of the hawaiian islands ...... So much for DrPhil showing off his uneducated opinion .......... we all know about opinions ............... to continue:

Glad to see you are off to a great start here......

02-28-2012, 11:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
dereksbicycles Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 60202 Posts: 3,793	Deaf and mute crap.... Why does people have to use deaf and mute??? Derek Troy \| Facebook

02-29-2012, 11:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,113	Derek: Is the person part of the section called-Voice off Deaf? As you might recall-discussed here in AllDeaf.com. __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

03-01-2012, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
rockin'robin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 15,279	Personally, I don't like the word "mute".and IMO, it makes it seem the deafie cannot converse at all, even in ASL or written ASL/English.....Hearies assume that "mute" is "dumb".... If only hearies knew just how intelligent and capable we deafies really are....there have been many times in my life whe I've said "I'm deaf."....and the hearie just flips me off with a hand wave and turns to my son....and I CORRECT that person!....saying that "I'm the adult, not the child, my son is not an intrepretor....and you are not to treat me like a child or a 2nd class citizen!".... Maybe, in some people's opinion, that was extremely rude....but in my opinion, it was the right thing to do, after being treated this way numerous times..... KristinaB, TXgolfer, stephaniep21 and 1 others like this.

03-02-2012, 10:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
Anij Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,087	Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Bold ) Here's the thing ... While I totally agree that a newspapaer etc referring to someone as "deaf and mute" is unneccessary, because really 99% of the time "deaf" works just fine. I DO understand that "mute" as a medical definition is someone who is not only unable to, or unwilling to use spoken language but ALSO unable (physically or emotionally/trauma induced) to produce a sounds/noise (scream,cry, anything) at all. For example if someone has throat cancer and their voicebox etc is removed, they are "mute". There are of course a tiny minority of Deaf who are physically unable to speak (I'm not meaning they have difficult to understand speech, I mean they aren't able to produce ANY noise etc due to medical issues or some massive emotional trauma etc) That all being said, I also think "mute" is leaps and bounds better and more appropriate than the term "dumb", which long before it was an insult which means "stupid", was what we now call "mute". As a Hoh/Deaf person, I cringe at the "mute" thing, especially when it's written/said in a context which is either presumtuous (ie the reporter ASSuming that all deaf people, or deaf who sign cannot speak) or entirely irrelavent (ie who cares that the person in the article you cited was deaf, let alone deaf AND "mute". At the same time, I'm also greatful that the ignorant writer didn't use "deaf and dumb" - a phrase which in contemporary articles/reports etc absolutely makes me fume and see red. rockin'robin, dereksbicycles, AJWSmith and 1 others like this. __________________ Hoh/Deaf ~ +120db deaf right , mild/mod flux left & APD English & ASL ...PAH!! Ignorance is NOT Bliss

03-09-2012, 08:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,113	How do the persons who decide to become "voice off" (can speak) fit the above re: "mute"? __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

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02-28-2012, 11:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
dereksbicycles Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: 60202 Posts: 3,793	Ethical Treatment Pit Bulls Fb friend Duana with her dog. Duana has a deaf, mute neighbor. The neighbor always looks down when he passes Duana on the street. But when she is with her dog, her dog goes to the neighbor and gives him a dog hug and the neighbor lights up with a big smile and points to the dog! Yeah, it's nice when dogs do good things, but it hurts to see deaf mute stuffs being written. I guess we get used to it.

03-01-2012, 07:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
sequoias Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Iowa, the land of the cornfields and pigs Posts: 21,856	Would be better to call them "deaf" period. It doesn't mean they're silent. They can be hella loud at times! LOL droning continues

04-10-2012, 08:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,113	I believe there are comments here in AllDeaf.com about DEAF persons who can speak and "decide" to become "voice off". Ostensibly- one Savor quietness. I acknowledge one can "decide" to become "voice off" is a free choice one can effect. What "others construe" of the "voice off" group=interesting to the discussion of "deaf and dumb". More discussion in Sociology. __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

05-02-2012, 12:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Pidgin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	Deaf Mute means can't speak - can't hear. If you look at the sign for deaf, the movement from mouth toward the ear, basically the sign says deaf-mute, (pointing to mouth and ear) can't speak - can't hear, as you are pointing at both mouth then ear. It's like the sign for hearing, with the words continually rolling out of the mouth of the person. Daf mute goes back 100 + years ...I'm surprised people still use the old terminology. Pidgin God Bless the litle children while they are still too young to hate. --- Tom T. Hall

05-04-2012, 10:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,113	Is "pidgin" part of ASL? __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

05-05-2012, 01:09 PM	#20 (permalink)
Pidgin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	Pidgin is my screen name ... it's what I know and who I am. Is DrPhil part of ASL ?? Pidgin God Bless the little children while they are still too young to hate. -- Tom T. Hall

05-05-2012, 01:12 PM	#21 (permalink)
Bottesini Joe's Friend Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: With Owl Sock Posts: 37,523 Blog Entries: 1	Is Pidgin hearing? __________________

05-05-2012, 01:18 PM	#22 (permalink)
Pidgin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	Sometimes ........ Depends on the sounds I guess .......... I can definitely hear sirens, gunshots and shooting !! Pidgin Pay cash -- Starve a bank. Last edited by Pidgin; 05-05-2012 at 02:18 PM.

05-06-2012, 08:44 AM	#25 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,113	" Pidgin" is a "variant" on English-I understand. Using it as a "screen name" here-another factor not relevant to the question of pidgin re ASL. drphil is a computer code to his website: drphil.com. Mentioned before: a joke in VampireFreaks.com. Right: retired Goth! To the best of my knowledge- Philip C McGraw is not DEAF and doesn't talk about "deaf culture" on his TV shows. The dictionary definition-Oxford Canadian- page 610: a simplified form of English or another language,containing elements of local language(s) and used for communication (eg in parts of the Far East) between people speaking different languages. pidgin English. Thus my query: used in ASL? __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

05-12-2012, 03:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
Pidgin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	Well DrPhil ......... This time you are wrong ...so you can go backstage and suck your thumb and pout. Pidgin is the unofficial language of the hawaiian islands ...... So much for DrPhil showing off his uneducated opinion .......... we all know about opinions ............... to continue: "Pidgin is a beautiful, expressive language. It was originally created so that the immigrants, the Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese and Filipinos as well as the Hawaiians and the Americans could do business. What evolved is a true language." Dr. Phil Mcgraw is a hearie, doesn't know any asl or sign and doesn't care about the deaf community. He is too busy being famous, making money and being promoted by Oprah ............ So sorry Bottesini ... I am not an an ASL student, nor a student anywhere. I'm too old for wanting to be a college student again .......... I was in a college once .... while there I tutored computers, computer programming and data base analysis to all the deaf students in the college taking those curriculum courses. Pidgin There is someone inside my head, Who is looking at someone inside my head, Who is looking at the someone who is looking at someone inside my head ....

05-12-2012, 04:08 PM	#28 (permalink)
Pidgin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Hawaii Posts: 10	Dr. Phil Mcgraw is a hearie ... Please re-read my post .... Rude seems to be the new normal everywhere ..... The world is full of hate and rudeness ..... Pidgin There is someone inside my head, Who is looking at someone inside my head, Who is looking at the someone who is looking at someone inside my head ....

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