Annoying ignorant hearing people stories - Page 9

dogmom · 08-10-2011, 02:46 PM

"I'll pray for you" already comes from a bias

one is the religious bias

two is the audist bias - there would be nothing to pray for if the person initially thought that the individual to whom the comment was directed, was already FINE.

warpedpink · 08-10-2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

You seriously need to revise that post. The syntax, grammar, and word usage make it unreadable.

I'm able to understand it just fine.

jillio · 08-10-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpedpink

I'm able to understand it just fine.

Unfortunately, so did I. But it still wasn't very readable.

If you had a little more experience with AF, you'd see my point. Stick around. She will offend you before it's over with.

SJCSue · 08-11-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Unfortunately, so did I. But it still wasn't very readable.

If you had a little more experience with AF, you'd see my point. Stick around. She will offend you before it's over with.

Who is AF?

purplewowies · 08-11-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCSue

Who is AF?

I'm pretty sure she means Audiofuzzy.

**KristinaB** · 08-11-2011, 05:01 PM

Well - I had to go to our County Government building this afternoon. Had to go to the Property Assessors office. With all the new changes for safety and security, we have the metal detectors and you have to put all stuff on a belt to be x-rayed and walk through this scanner thing. Well, I had my rollator with me and I put my basket on the belt with my purse and all. I went through and the alarm goes off. I knew it was the rollator, but the officer asks me to go through again. I did and it went off again. Then I suggested that I go through without the rollator. Seems, when my back was turned, he was speaking to me and obviously I did not catch what was said. The other officer shouted out, "Hey, Are you Deaf or Something?!" To which I replied "Yes, I am." Officer #1 then, being as ignorant as possible come up with a real gem. "Well, it you're deaf, why do you need a rollator? You should have seeing eye dog and a white cane with red tip." Officer #2 comes back and explains the #1 was totally wrong. A third officer shows up and I explain the problem. He has me walt through without my rollator, no alarms, he checks over the rollator, no weapons, so he tells officer #1, "You're relieved of duty for the day, report to the Commander's office immediately." And off I went to the Assessor's office.

**Jiro** · 08-11-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Well - I had to go to our County Government building this afternoon. Had to go to the Property Assessors office. With all the new changes for safety and security, we have the metal detectors and you have to put all stuff on a belt to be x-rayed and walk through this scanner thing. Well, I had my rollator with me and I put my basket on the belt with my purse and all. I went through and the alarm goes off. I knew it was the rollator, but the officer asks me to go through again. I did and it went off again. Then I suggested that I go through without the rollator. Seems, when my back was turned, he was speaking to me and obviously I did not catch what was said. The other officer shouted out, "Hey, Are you Deaf or Something?!" To which I replied "Yes, I am." Officer #1 then, being as ignorant as possible come up with a real gem. "Well, it you're deaf, why do you need a rollator? You should have seeing eye dog and a white cane with red tip." Officer #2 comes back and explains the #1 was totally wrong. A third officer shows up and I explain the problem. He has me walt through without my rollator, no alarms, he checks over the rollator, no weapons, so he tells officer #1, "You're relieved of duty for the day, report to the Commander's office immediately." And off I went to the Assessor's office.

wow... Hurray for Officer #2.

Kristina - if you are still bothered by it... you are free to go back and file a complaint - I recommend that. I surely do not want such ignorant people like him to be carrying gun and badge to bully people around.

jillio · 08-11-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplewowies

I'm pretty sure she means Audiofuzzy.

Yep.

Sunshine · 08-11-2011, 09:51 PM

A hearie just talking about how Deafies "is just like they're normal". Argh.

**Smithtr** · 08-13-2011, 03:28 PM

I remember, sometimes I know notice it on reason issues serious! I think so might to reason important if suppose reason ignorant to hearing person reason my client annoy I annoy because she nothing serious because too much!

alwaysandalways · 08-15-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Hawk

Like one Shel said and "don't worry", "it not important", "you don't need to know", etc.

I am hearing and when I say, "what?" to what someone asked or said I get the same response. It gets me angry. I do think something is somewhat wrong with my hearing but I just can't place it.

Sometimes I repeat something back what someone says and they laugh and said I misunderstood. That bugs me too. I can't help it. I can only imagine what jerks people are to someone Deaf or hard of hearing if they treat me that way

sarahkhan · 08-29-2011, 02:44 PM

One of the stupiest question that people ask me..."hmmmm...do you wear hearing aid while you bath" Like I could afford a pairs of hearing aids every time I
bath

Another question commonly asked..."do you wear hearin aids when you sleep?" and I normally answer..."Öh then you wear your spectacle while you sleep?" Hm....they think my ear has beem literally replaced by hearing aids....

**ash345** · 08-29-2011, 02:45 PM

I was asked today... while TALKING to a client... "how do you communicate with people?"... really? (this is why I HATE using my voice at work, I am much more content to sit in the back and work on the computers)

RachelRene · 08-29-2011, 08:51 PM

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying.

One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy.

Emmer · 08-29-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

As someone who really does have an auditory processing disorder, this also drives me nuts. Yeah, I have a fan or florescent light humming in the background and can't understand anything but it is like you going to a concert and not being able to hear. I was tested, and while I could hear tones in the normal range, I couldn't figure out the words without guessing a very large majority of the time, even with a quiet environment.

I am also really annoyed by the "never mind" or "it's not important" or "I'll tell you later" (then it never happens).

I do not understand why people think it is okay to talk with their mouth full. I do not wish to see your food (I think this bothers everyone though). Likewise, covering your mouth because you just took a bite of food, then talking with your mouth covered is no better.

Though usually not because of my processing, but because of other health problems, I HATE the whole you are so brave for all you've been through thing. No, I'm not. I take life as it is handed to me, smile and take it a day at a time. That does NOT make me superwoman, it makes me a capable human being.

rebeccalj · 08-29-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Well - I had to go to our County Government building this afternoon. Had to go to the Property Assessors office. With all the new changes for safety and security, we have the metal detectors and you have to put all stuff on a belt to be x-rayed and walk through this scanner thing. Well, I had my rollator with me and I put my basket on the belt with my purse and all. I went through and the alarm goes off. I knew it was the rollator, but the officer asks me to go through again. I did and it went off again. Then I suggested that I go through without the rollator. Seems, when my back was turned, he was speaking to me and obviously I did not catch what was said. The other officer shouted out, "Hey, Are you Deaf or Something?!" To which I replied "Yes, I am." Officer #1 then, being as ignorant as possible come up with a real gem. "Well, it you're deaf, why do you need a rollator? You should have seeing eye dog and a white cane with red tip." Officer #2 comes back and explains the #1 was totally wrong. A third officer shows up and I explain the problem. He has me walt through without my rollator, no alarms, he checks over the rollator, no weapons, so he tells officer #1, "You're relieved of duty for the day, report to the Commander's office immediately." And off I went to the Assessor's office.

Uggh! I would write complaint. Nice that other office step in but, still, ridiculous that people are *SO* ignorant.

rebeccalj · 08-29-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahkhan

One of the stupiest question that people ask me..."hmmmm...do you wear hearing aid while you bath" Like I could afford a pairs of hearing aids every time I
bath

Another question commonly asked..."do you wear hearin aids when you sleep?" and I normally answer..."Öh then you wear your spectacle while you sleep?" Hm....they think my ear has beem literally replaced by hearing aids....

They do not know that they feedback against a pillow.

rebeccalj · 08-29-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ash345

I was asked today... while TALKING to a client... "how do you communicate with people?"... really? (this is why I HATE using my voice at work, I am much more content to sit in the back and work on the computers)

Good grief. You are *talking* to them and they ask that? Maybe when you are born hearie you are not given comprehension skills because of it?

No offense to our respected hearies. You know who you are.

It drive me crazy when hearies say BS comment like that!! What the heck do you think I'm *DOING* right now!!???!!!

rebeccalj · 08-30-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying.

One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy.

To the bolded ---> it's not a label but an identity.

It's probably pissing you off because you are approaching your identity, about to embrace it, and being proud of it. If you weren't proud you wouldn't be upset about it.

It upsets me, too.

rebeccalj · 08-30-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmer

As someone who really does have an auditory processing disorder, this also drives me nuts. Yeah, I have a fan or florescent light humming in the background and can't understand anything but it is like you going to a concert and not being able to hear. I was tested, and while I could hear tones in the normal range, I couldn't figure out the words without guessing a very large majority of the time, even with a quiet environment.

I am also really annoyed by the "never mind" or "it's not important" or "I'll tell you later" (then it never happens).

I do not understand why people think it is okay to talk with their mouth full. I do not wish to see your food (I think this bothers everyone though). Likewise, covering your mouth because you just took a bite of food, then talking with your mouth covered is no better.

Though usually not because of my processing, but because of other health problems, I HATE the whole you are so brave for all you've been through thing. No, I'm not. I take life as it is handed to me, smile and take it a day at a time. That does NOT make me superwoman, it makes me a capable human being.

My voice comprehension (discrimination?) is near zero so I understand.

StevieMont927 · 08-30-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying.

One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy.

I think that's just hearies trying to be nice. We really don't understand what it is to be Deaf, but some people are trying to say they can relate. Granted, at super loud events I can't understand what people are saying unless I look at them, and I think most hearies believe that that gives us an idea of what it's like. It's a glimpse at its absolute best. So much of hearing culture is tiptoeing around other peoples' feelings, trying to find what you have in common and make people feel included, that they lose sight of the fact that there are some things you just can't understand unless you've been through it. I'm sorry that people can't get that it's just not the same.

RachelRene · 08-30-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieMont927

I think that's just hearies trying to be nice. We really don't understand what it is to be Deaf, but some people are trying to say they can relate. Granted, at super loud events I can't understand what people are saying unless I look at them, and I think most hearies believe that that gives us an idea of what it's like. It's a glimpse at its absolute best. So much of hearing culture is tiptoeing around other peoples' feelings, trying to find what you have in common and make people feel included, that they lose sight of the fact that there are some things you just can't understand unless you've been through it. I'm sorry that people can't get that it's just not the same.

I think you're right... I don't think the hearing people who've said this are trying to be disrespectful, or dismissive, although sometimes it comes across that way. It's trying to find common ground, when really I just need them to go "Oh, okay, you need me to look at you when I'm talking to you."

RachelRene · 08-30-2011, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebeccalj

Good grief. You are *talking* to them and they ask that? Maybe when you are born hearie you are not given comprehension skills because of it?

No offense to our respected hearies. You know who you are.

It drive me crazy when hearies say BS comment like that!! What the heck do you think I'm *DOING* right now!!???!!!

I wonder if they went home later, thought about that conversation, and had a lightbulb "wow, that was a stupid thing to say" moment.

CSign · 08-30-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

I wonder if they went home later, thought about that conversation, and had a lightbulb "wow, that was a stupid thing to say" moment.

Probably! And if they didn't they weren't worth a second thought anyway ;-)

rebeccalj · 08-30-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

I wonder if they went home later, thought about that conversation, and had a lightbulb "wow, that was a stupid thing to say" moment.

Hopefully. People say the most ridiculous things sometimes.

**ash345** · 08-30-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebeccalj

Good grief. You are *talking* to them and they ask that? Maybe when you are born hearie you are not given comprehension skills because of it?

No offense to our respected hearies. You know who you are.

It drive me crazy when hearies say BS comment like that!! What the heck do you think I'm *DOING* right now!!???!!!

I have no idea... I've had to deal with that since I was little... I remember teachers telling my mom I was mentally handicapped because I couldn't sound out words, or anything of the sort, and I talked "funny" like the kids with downs did... when I saw my 2nd grade teacher tell my mom I was "challenged" I kept asking her... what did you say... what... and then she said "see"... and they all knew I couldn't really hear them. It wasn't until 3rd grade when I got my first HA's (paid for by the state) that my IEP said I would see the TOD 1x a week... I fell so far behind in school... that they talked about holding me back again in 2nd grade, because I wasn't learning like they would like me to... I find it rediculous that NO one (that I know of) talked to my parents or even suggested sending me to a Deaf School... they did try to get my parents to use sign with me... but their precious doctors told them it would be bad for me.

I get asked at work all the time, why do you sound funny? or where are you from? I was born 60 miles from where I work... and they all seem to think I'm either really stupid, have a speech impediment or I was born out of the country (though they can't pin down where)...

that bothers me too... "are you sure you weren't born somewhere else?" yes because my Deafness has made me so stupid that I don't even know where I am from... the joys of living in a hearing world I guess...

**deafskeptic** · 08-30-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying.

One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy.

I get that from my own family. I hate it as much as you do.

DeafCaroline · 08-30-2011, 12:11 PM

What bugs me is hearing people saying that because of "Children of a Lesser God", they now know what it's like to be deaf because they can't hear anything when they swim underwater.

Pfft.

I made one hearing person wear ear plugs at a small get together (he joined us after a swim at the YMCA) and he took them out after 15 minutes because he was getting so irritated trying to understand what people were saying to him. Then I said "ah hah! see!" and his response was "well, I can't lipread like you so it's not the same."

But of course....

jillio · 08-30-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RachelRene

Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants?

It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. *facepalm*

I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying.

One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy.

They are trying to be emapthetic, I suppose, but what they are really being is patronizing and they are minimizing the impact of deafness on the individual.

jillio · 08-30-2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

What bugs me is hearing people saying that because of "Children of a Lesser God", they now know what it's like to be deaf because they can't hear anything when they swim underwater.

Pfft.

I made one hearing person wear ear plugs at a small get together (he joined us after a swim at the YMCA) and he took them out after 15 minutes because he was getting so irritated trying to understand what people were saying to him. Then I said "ah hah! see!" and his response was "well, I can't lipread like you so it's not the same."

But of course....

Am I the only hearing person alive that is willing to say that I have no idea what it is like to be deaf?

08-10-2011, 02:46 PM	#241 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,475	"I'll pray for you" already comes from a bias one is the religious bias two is the audist bias - there would be nothing to pray for if the person initially thought that the individual to whom the comment was directed, was already FINE. jillio and ash345 like this.

08-11-2011, 09:51 PM	#249 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	A hearie just talking about how Deafies "is just like they're normal". Argh. jillio, rebeccalj and ash345 like this.

08-13-2011, 03:28 PM	#250 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,679	I remember, sometimes I know notice it on reason issues serious! I think so might to reason important if suppose reason ignorant to hearing person reason my client annoy I annoy because she nothing serious because too much! __________________

08-29-2011, 02:44 PM	#252 (permalink)
sarahkhan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 61	One of the stupiest question that people ask me..."hmmmm...do you wear hearing aid while you bath" Like I could afford a pairs of hearing aids every time I bath Another question commonly asked..."do you wear hearin aids when you sleep?" and I normally answer..."Öh then you wear your spectacle while you sleep?" Hm....they think my ear has beem literally replaced by hearing aids.... coolgirlspyer90, rebeccalj and Cheetah like this.

08-29-2011, 02:45 PM	#253 (permalink)
ash345 Audist Free Zone Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 806	I was asked today... while TALKING to a client... "how do you communicate with people?"... really? (this is why I HATE using my voice at work, I am much more content to sit in the back and work on the computers) Cheetah and DeafRaptor like this. __________________ with a capital D, more than just a state of being, its family, belonging, home "Love and dreams are miraculous, they don't need to be heard or said or translated, only felt" That Deaf Girl

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

08-11-2011, 05:01 PM	#246 (permalink)
KristinaB New SDIT Deacon Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Land of the backstroke Posts: 13,775	Well - I had to go to our County Government building this afternoon. Had to go to the Property Assessors office. With all the new changes for safety and security, we have the metal detectors and you have to put all stuff on a belt to be x-rayed and walk through this scanner thing. Well, I had my rollator with me and I put my basket on the belt with my purse and all. I went through and the alarm goes off. I knew it was the rollator, but the officer asks me to go through again. I did and it went off again. Then I suggested that I go through without the rollator. Seems, when my back was turned, he was speaking to me and obviously I did not catch what was said. The other officer shouted out, "Hey, Are you Deaf or Something?!" To which I replied "Yes, I am." Officer #1 then, being as ignorant as possible come up with a real gem. "Well, it you're deaf, why do you need a rollator? You should have seeing eye dog and a white cane with red tip." Officer #2 comes back and explains the #1 was totally wrong. A third officer shows up and I explain the problem. He has me walt through without my rollator, no alarms, he checks over the rollator, no weapons, so he tells officer #1, "You're relieved of duty for the day, report to the Commander's office immediately." And off I went to the Assessor's office.

08-29-2011, 08:51 PM	#254 (permalink)
RachelRene Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 118	Does anybody else get the stream of hearing people who claim they totally get it because they can't hear conversations in the middle of concerts or noisy restaurants? It seems like every time I tell a hearing person that I'm HOH (one of these days, I'll claim the deaf label), they are suddenly hoh too. Oh, no, they had their hearing tested and it came back perfect, but maybe they should get it checked again, or maybe they have a processing disorder because they can't hear in the clubs. facepalm I shook it off the first couple of times as it being the way people try to identify with you, show they are understanding... but now it just pisses me off. I'm trying to tell someone that I need them to do things like look at me when they're speaking to me, and suddenly we're talking about their non-existent hearing loss. Or telling me how they completely get it, when THEY can pick up a phone and just call someone, they can follow a conversation in a group, they aren't having to struggle to read someone's lips just to catch a glimpse of what the person is saying. One of my friends does this constantly. Not only to me, but if she is introducing me to other people. Maybe I just have a bad attitude today, but it drives me crazy. plasticdinosaur, ash345 and DeafRaptor like this.

08-30-2011, 12:11 PM	#268 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	What bugs me is hearing people saying that because of "Children of a Lesser God", they now know what it's like to be deaf because they can't hear anything when they swim underwater. Pfft. I made one hearing person wear ear plugs at a small get together (he joined us after a swim at the YMCA) and he took them out after 15 minutes because he was getting so irritated trying to understand what people were saying to him. Then I said "ah hah! see!" and his response was "well, I can't lipread like you so it's not the same." But of course.... jillio, rebeccalj, RachelRene and 2 others like this.

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