Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing? - Page 16

**Bottesini** · 06-27-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

The "medical pointview" in that I regard my HAs as tools to permit me to live the life I want? Yeah, I guess so. More of a technological viewpoint than a medical one, per se. I don't think there is any medical cure; I do think there are some tremendous technological advances, and I'll take advantage of what I can.

So do you make any distinction in your mind between deaf children and HOH children? Do you think kids who can hear to some extent, well enough to hear voices and understand oral language, should be helped to speak correctly?

Shel has always been outspoken for both skills for deaf and hoh children.

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 10:50 PM

OK, I just wondered.

**shel90** · 06-27-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

The "medical pointview" in that I regard my HAs as tools to permit me to live the life I want? Yeah, I guess so. More of a technological viewpoint than a medical one, per se. I don't think there is any medical cure; I do think there are some tremendous technological advances, and I'll take advantage of what I can.

So do you make any distinction in your mind between deaf children and HOH children? Do you think kids who can hear to some extent, well enough to hear voices and understand oral language, should be helped to speak correctly?

Medical point of view sees deafness as a defect and that it needs to be fixed.

I am not against giving every deaf/hoh children the opportunity to learn speech skills. I believe in bilingualism..ASL/English instead of just only spoken English only becauseof the risks involved. I have seen enough in my career. It is not worth the risk.

AlleyCat · 06-27-2011, 11:00 PM

BG, I think I see where you're coming from in terms of technology and using it to your advantage. Lord only knows I hated my last phone and I love my new one. The technological difference is indescribable. And cool. And useful. And handy. And everything else.

However, when you're born and raised in a different culture, such as hearing or deaf at birth, there's an entirely different culture, a different way of thinking. I see totally where shel is coming from, it's the same as me. I would not pretend to wear black makeup and understand what it's like to be African American. Im not saying you are doing that, but it's too easy to say you understand when perhaps you might not without realizing it.

**Jiro** · 06-27-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

The "medical pointview" in that I regard my HAs as tools to permit me to live the life I want? Yeah, I guess so. More of a technological viewpoint than a medical one, per se. I don't think there is any medical cure; I do think there are some tremendous technological advances, and I'll take advantage of what I can.

So do you make any distinction in your mind between deaf children and HOH children? Do you think kids who can hear to some extent, well enough to hear voices and understand oral language, should be helped to speak correctly?

no I wouldn't say it's a technological pointview. It's not like a TiVo or Cruise Control for your car. It's a medical pointview because your ear was defective. Doctor fixed it with HA the same way doctor fixed amputee with prosthetic limb or wheelchair.

DeafCaroline · 06-27-2011, 11:08 PM

BG - I was angry about growing up oral-only but I was not angry with my mother. She didn't do this to deliberately make me suffer.

Yes, I can speak and yes, I hated the speech training. They're not mutually exclusive. If you grew up the way I did, you would understand immediately. Am I proud that I can speak well? I wish I can be. I used to be because it was all I had to massage my ego as a deaf person in a hearing world. Now, there's no sense of pride attached to it. It's definitely convenient and yet not. Speaking well comes with a curse. You speak well, people think you hear well. Then they get irritated when you're not meeting their expectations that you should be hearing what they're saying with your hearing aids and should be lipreading perfectly. THAT is tiresome.

You asked if there's space for speech training for HOHs, of course. It's called oralism.

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 11:09 PM

What kind of phone do you have, and why do you love it? (Sorry for the digression - I'd lilke to have a phone I'm happier with, still on the search.)

(Slips; that question is for Alleycat.)

I never said or intended to imply that I perfectly understand the situation of those who are deaf from birth or early childhood. I've done my best to be honest about my own hearing loss and what I do about it, what my experiences have been, and so forth.

I'm sure there are some areas of overlap between us, though. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

I stumbled on this site originally because I was looking for technical info on phones, TVs, and such, and on reviews of hearing aids. So I had that technical viewpoint from the start.

**shel90** · 06-27-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

BG - I was angry about growing up oral-only but I was not angry with my mother. She didn't do this to deliberately make me suffer.

Yes, I can speak and yes, I hated the speech training. They're not mutually exclusive. If you grew up the way I did, you would understand immediately. Am I proud that I can speak well? I wish I can be. I used to be because it was all I had to massage my ego as a deaf person in a hearing world. Now, there's no sense of pride attached to it. It's definitely convenient and yet not. Speaking well comes with a curse. You speak well, people think you hear well. Then they get irritated when you're not meeting their expectations that you should be hearing what they're saying with your hearing aids and should be lipreading perfectly. THAT is tiresome.

You asked if there's space for speech training for HOHs, of course. It's called oralism.

Oh wow! I had never thought of it like that! that was my big problem. I used to ahve such a BIG ego about being able to speak so good that I alienated the Phoenix Deaf community with my audist attitudes by thinking that I was so better than them because I could speak so well. Well, it turned out that they had it so much better than I did in life.

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

BG - I was angry about growing up oral-only but I was not angry with my mother. She didn't do this to deliberately make me suffer.

Yes, I can speak and yes, I hated the speech training. They're not mutually exclusive. If you grew up the way I did, you would understand immediately. Am I proud that I can speak well? I wish I can be. I used to be because it was all I had to massage my ego as a deaf person in a hearing world. Now, there's no sense of pride attached to it. It's definitely convenient and yet not. Speaking well comes with a curse. You speak well, people think you hear well. Then they get irritated when you're not meeting their expectations that you should be hearing what they're saying with your hearing aids and should be lipreading perfectly. THAT is tiresome.

You asked if there's space for speech training for HOHs, of course. It's called oralism.

And in your view, that's a bad thing?

**shel90** · 06-27-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

And in your view, that's a bad thing?

Oralism is oppression of deaf people.

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 11:15 PM

And you're including HOH with deaf, as being oppressed by speech training?

**shel90** · 06-27-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

And you're including HOH with deaf, as being oppressed by speech training?

You have no idea...

my friend who was HOH was fired fromher teaching job at an oral-only program because the parents were so freakin' obsessed with her ability to be a "spoken English" role model for their precious deaf/hoh children. Now, she is working as a teacher's aide making 20 thousand less than she did as a teacher all because of this stupid f***** oral-only philosophy.

Heck...one ADer who was a father of a deaf child with CIs admitted that he didnt want a teacher who is deaf teaching his child.

How is that for oppression, heh?

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 11:21 PM

That's bad.

AlleyCat · 06-27-2011, 11:25 PM

BG, I had an old blackberry. Now I have the iPhone. The difference for communicating is amazing. Be more than happy to talk about that elsewhere.

Beach girl · 06-27-2011, 11:32 PM

OK, thanks. I'm about to trundle off to bed. Will PM you tomorrow.

inmate23 · 06-28-2011, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

Since there are often threads on here about "How do I find the deaf community in such-and-such place?" or "How can I find someone to practice ASL with?", it doesn't look to me like knowing ASL necessarily makes someone's life easier, or allows them to communicate very freely with people around them, unless they live and work very closely with a deaf community. That is not the case for most people.

I was ID as a teen and what pisses me off is late deafed who are too lazy to google "asl classes+their location" or who are not willing to travel to the nearest class or social.

Late Deafed are at normally pushed into mi by social agencies who dont want to fund terps for them.

And I dont buy the excuse of $$ being an issue for learning learn by immersion.For practice inbetween classes or social buy or make posters

Grummer · 06-28-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

You have no idea...

my friend who was HOH was fired fromher teaching job at an oral-only program because the parents were so freakin' obsessed with her ability to be a "spoken English" role model for their precious deaf/hoh children. Now, she is working as a teacher's aide making 20 thousand less than she did as a teacher all because of this stupid f***** oral-only philosophy.

Heck...one ADer who was a father of a deaf child with CIs admitted that he didnt want a teacher who is deaf teaching his child.

How is that for oppression, heh?

Was that Cloggy? *and what about that ranter shaped like a hairy tropical fruit with the milk inside....

Grummer · 06-28-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

BG - oralism is about manually teaching the deaf how to speak and how to "listen". Did you have to be manually taught how to speak after becoming late-deafened?

I grew up oral only and no, it was not very beneficial because even though I can speak freely with the hearing, I still cannot hear them fluently. I was left out of everything from family meals to schools and even if I was the most perfect speaker on this planet, I still struggle with comprehending what hearing people say. Advocates of the oral-only approach don't get this or they just ignore this as irrelevant.

me too

kokonut · 06-28-2011, 02:04 AM

A wee bit obsessed?

Hohtopics · 06-28-2011, 07:09 AM

I think sometime those with a little better hearing, those with a severe loss sometime take it for granted that it was a little easier for them to develop good speech. As opposed to those with a profound whereas cause they had to work harder to get where they're at, they appreciate it a little more.

drphil · 06-28-2011, 08:52 AM

Wise thought from Hohtopics-above. One can't exactly determine if/when one will have "some problem with their hearing".

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

rolling7 · 06-28-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oralism is oppression of deaf people.

And ASL is to. Can you imagine a spanish-only child going of to school, later to a job, then social events and having a terp. ASL-only oppress the independence of the deaf person.

DeafCaroline · 06-28-2011, 10:22 AM

rolling7 - you were born deaf?

**Beowulf** · 06-28-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

And ASL is to. Can you imagine a spanish-only child going of to school, later to a job, then social events and having a terp. ASL-only oppress the independence of the deaf person.

Dang. Wait till I tell my Deaf, ASL-only friends that! They would be pleased as punch! They love to prove people like you wrong.

rolling7 · 06-28-2011, 11:28 AM

Yes, I was born deaf and am profound deaf.

There are few ASL-only deaf who are comfortable in life. Those deaf who have benefited themself but learning English (i.e. how to read and write it, note I did not say speak it) are much more successful in life.

Beowulf.......did you notice you and DC were using English in your posts?
Therefore, you can not be ASL-only and although I don't know your friends but I don't think they are ASL-only neither, but I could be wrong. I'm 100% right you and DC are NOT ASL-only because I have read your posts.

DC.......i speak, read and write English. I read, write but don't speak Latin (it was my required H.S. language) Spanish is all over Houston and I'm trying my best to read and write it but doubt I'll ever get the feel for that. No deaf has to remain ASL-only.

Frisky Feline · 06-28-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

Yes, I was born deaf and am profound deaf.

There are few ASL-only deaf who are comfortable in life. Those deaf who have benefited themself but learning English (i.e. how to read and write it, note I did not say speak it) are much more successful in life.

.

Just clarify, not few asl only deaf. There are a lot of ASL only Deaf who are comfortable in life who can read, write and ASL.

I have too many deaf friends who are asl users.

**shel90** · 06-28-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolling7

And ASL is to. Can you imagine a spanish-only child going of to school, later to a job, then social events and having a terp. ASL-only oppress the independence of the deaf person.

Huh? Bilingual programs teach BOTH ASL and English. Never heard of any deaf program that do not teach English to deaf children.

Are you an ASL user?

StSapphire · 06-28-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

Just clarify, not few asl only deaf. There are a lot of ASL only Deaf who are comfortable in life who can read, write and ASL.

I have too many deaf friends who are asl users.

I think he's trying to claim that it would be limiting to literally only know ASL, and be unable to read and/or write English. Which... is confusing, since that was never mentioned anywhere or brought up previously at all.

Frisky Feline · 06-28-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StSapphire

I think he's trying to claim that it would be limiting to literally only know ASL, and be unable to read and/or write English. Which... is confusing, since that was never mentioned anywhere or brought up previously at all.

OH! gotcha! thank you! i have not meet anyone like THAT.. If its the case then they may have some problem for some reasons.

thanks for pointing that out!

**shel90** · 06-28-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StSapphire

I think he's trying to claim that it would be limiting to literally only know ASL, and be unable to read and/or write English. Which... is confusing, since that was never mentioned anywhere or brought up previously at all.

If so, then I agree. Same with hearing people...if they cant read and write in English, options are limited for them as well.

06-27-2011, 11:00 PM	#454 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,760	BG, I think I see where you're coming from in terms of technology and using it to your advantage. Lord only knows I hated my last phone and I love my new one. The technological difference is indescribable. And cool. And useful. And handy. And everything else. However, when you're born and raised in a different culture, such as hearing or deaf at birth, there's an entirely different culture, a different way of thinking. I see totally where shel is coming from, it's the same as me. I would not pretend to wear black makeup and understand what it's like to be African American. Im not saying you are doing that, but it's too easy to say you understand when perhaps you might not without realizing it. shel90, Bottesini and BecLak like this.

06-27-2011, 11:08 PM	#456 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	BG - I was angry about growing up oral-only but I was not angry with my mother. She didn't do this to deliberately make me suffer. Yes, I can speak and yes, I hated the speech training. They're not mutually exclusive. If you grew up the way I did, you would understand immediately. Am I proud that I can speak well? I wish I can be. I used to be because it was all I had to massage my ego as a deaf person in a hearing world. Now, there's no sense of pride attached to it. It's definitely convenient and yet not. Speaking well comes with a curse. You speak well, people think you hear well. Then they get irritated when you're not meeting their expectations that you should be hearing what they're saying with your hearing aids and should be lipreading perfectly. THAT is tiresome. You asked if there's space for speech training for HOHs, of course. It's called oralism. OIC likes this.

06-28-2011, 02:04 AM	#469 (permalink)
kokonut Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 15,348	A wee bit obsessed? __________________ Before AD. After AD. "Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us." -Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice "... turns out they are telling the truth."

06-28-2011, 08:52 AM	#471 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,107	Wise thought from Hohtopics-above. One can't exactly determine if/when one will have "some problem with their hearing". Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07 __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

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06-27-2011, 10:50 PM	#452 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	OK, I just wondered.

06-27-2011, 11:09 PM	#457 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	What kind of phone do you have, and why do you love it? (Sorry for the digression - I'd lilke to have a phone I'm happier with, still on the search.) (Slips; that question is for Alleycat.) I never said or intended to imply that I perfectly understand the situation of those who are deaf from birth or early childhood. I've done my best to be honest about my own hearing loss and what I do about it, what my experiences have been, and so forth. I'm sure there are some areas of overlap between us, though. But maybe I'm wrong about that. I stumbled on this site originally because I was looking for technical info on phones, TVs, and such, and on reviews of hearing aids. So I had that technical viewpoint from the start.

06-27-2011, 11:15 PM	#461 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	And you're including HOH with deaf, as being oppressed by speech training?

06-27-2011, 11:21 PM	#463 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	That's bad.

06-27-2011, 11:25 PM	#464 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,760	BG, I had an old blackberry. Now I have the iPhone. The difference for communicating is amazing. Be more than happy to talk about that elsewhere.

06-27-2011, 11:32 PM	#465 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	OK, thanks. I'm about to trundle off to bed. Will PM you tomorrow.

06-28-2011, 07:09 AM	#470 (permalink)
Hohtopics Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,033	I think sometime those with a little better hearing, those with a severe loss sometime take it for granted that it was a little easier for them to develop good speech. As opposed to those with a profound whereas cause they had to work harder to get where they're at, they appreciate it a little more.

06-28-2011, 10:22 AM	#473 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	rolling7 - you were born deaf?

06-28-2011, 11:28 AM	#475 (permalink)
rolling7 Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,340	Yes, I was born deaf and am profound deaf. There are few ASL-only deaf who are comfortable in life. Those deaf who have benefited themself but learning English (i.e. how to read and write it, note I did not say speak it) are much more successful in life. Beowulf.......did you notice you and DC were using English in your posts? Therefore, you can not be ASL-only and although I don't know your friends but I don't think they are ASL-only neither, but I could be wrong. I'm 100% right you and DC are NOT ASL-only because I have read your posts. DC.......i speak, read and write English. I read, write but don't speak Latin (it was my required H.S. language) Spanish is all over Houston and I'm trying my best to read and write it but doubt I'll ever get the feel for that. No deaf has to remain ASL-only.