Deafhood - Page 19

Grummer · 06-10-2011, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJWSmith

DeafCaroline This is my query. It seems that Deafhood is in fact only for people who embrace the Deaf culture, and not for deaf people who can't hear.

sowwy buddy that is a slightly mistaken query, the idea was it , 'group lead' like, shall this group phenomena grows, so too the attraction of Deaf culture grows, and moreso so would the whats the word, the denial from the hearing society (and from within deaf community AND isolated hoh, hearies, deaf (not big D), will have their story of hardship/oppression been heard and BELIEVED by the hearing world, hence our demand for equal rights will be much much closer to reality.

Grummer · 06-10-2011, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hohtopics

Just for the record, I've had more experience with the Deaf than some of you think or realize.

"the Deaf"? grrr you should say Deaf people, that that, is so NOT on, so just for the record, I believe you are as good as a jar without a lid...

Grummer · 06-10-2011, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I see AD as a forum for deaf, hard of hearing and hearing people who deal with hearing loss. There is no rule requiring deaf and hard of hearing people who must embrace "Deafhood" in order to participate. A bunch of bs using the same "why are you here?" spiel. Sounds pretty darned territorial. Reason why I have no need for labels of that sort.

I accept my hearing loss. I acknowledge it. What more do YOU want? I simply accept people with hearing loss for who they are. I don't need to bring a microscope for each one of them to see if they "qualify." I'd say, hell with that, let's just go to a sports bar and enjoy the company.

a Classic mainstreamed denial

Hohtopics · 06-10-2011, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

"the Deaf"? grrr you should say Deaf people, that that, is so NOT on, so just for the record, I believe you are as good as a jar without a lid...

Ok. FYI, I changed it to "Deaf people" in that post then what?

Grummer · 06-10-2011, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hohtopics

Ok. FYI, I changed it to "Deaf people" in that post then what?

good..dont label us , like 'the blacks the blind, the wheelchair bound'
always, always use
Black person, Dave, he is blind, or Mary , she uses her wheelchair, not 'mary's wheelchair bound' ,
lesson is,
think about how it feels to be labelled...in a 'stuck' or 'the others'...they are people just with different needs , nothing more nothing less

Hohtopics · 06-10-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

good..dont label us , like 'the blacks the blind, the wheelchair bound'
always, always use
Black person, Dave, he is blind, or Mary , she uses her wheelchair, not 'mary's wheelchair bound' ,
lesson is,
think about how it feels to be labelled...in a 'stuck' or 'the others'...they are people just with different needs , nothing more nothing less

Alright, I'll keep that in mind.

Hohtopics · 06-10-2011, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

I think Koko is being far, far, more polite than most of the people criticizing him. So far he hasn't told anyone to STFU, for instance, or to get out of here because they don't agree with him, or called people names. People who do those things are the ones losing the argument, IMHO.

Or, at minimum, not being very good ambassadors for the much-discussed "deaf values."

I wouldn't necessarily say "losing the argument" as to that's really subjective. However, people do tend to get personal or resort to name calling when they're being stumped for words.

Beach girl · 06-10-2011, 08:09 AM

OK, point taken.

**Beowulf** · 06-10-2011, 09:07 AM

Interesting thread. I'm deaf and Deaf. Looking forward to telling my friends, even the hearing and Hearing.

AJWSmith · 06-10-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

sowwy buddy that is a slightly mistaken query, the idea was it , 'group lead' like, shall this group phenomena grows, so too the attraction of Deaf culture grows, and moreso so would the whats the word, the denial from the hearing society (and from within deaf community AND isolated hoh, hearies, deaf (not big D), will have their story of hardship/oppression been heard and BELIEVED by the hearing world, hence our demand for equal rights will be much much closer to reality.

Thank you Grummer for responding to my query. I've ordered Paddy Ladd's book and look forward to reading it in its entirety.

**TXgolfer** · 06-10-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

kokonut need to be sectioned.

Ah, so people with an opposing viewpoint are bad.....baaaaad

But people who verbally abuse other members are good....gooooood (as long as you agree with them of course)

Gotcha.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

What name calling? All I said was that he was being hard of understanding.

You would do well to research his history with us before calling us out. There's a reason why he's not well liked.

Nor does it have anything to do with his being polite. It has to do with his asking the same questions over and over despite them having been answered in an attempt to trip people up in order to support a position he cannot support otherwise. In other words, it is his patronizing sneakiness.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

Which I'm not, and I've never said anything remotely like that. Yet, a certain person still loves to toss around the "audist" label at any opportunity. Basically it just means anyone who disagrees with her, rather than anything substantive.

For *myself,* my life is way better because of hearing aids. Seems like most of the people here who can be helped by aids or CIs are using them and feel like their lives are better for them. Does that make nearly everyone "audist?" I don't think so.

I think what Grendel was talking about a while ago in another thread about the gymnastics instructor who wouldn't teach her daughter's deaf friend properly is a good example of an "audist" - someone who believes that a deaf child, because of her deafness, can't do something that has absolutely nothing to do with her hearing ability.

As for "journey into deafhood" - everyone has their own journey in life. Some of us are journeying towards fitness, or towards becoming better educated, or towards a greater sense of happiness in their personal relationships. If someone feels that journeying into d-or (D)eafhood is their personal journey, fine by me. And if not, I've also got no quarrel with it.

Why can't we all just respect each other's paths, rather than trying to force everyone who is hard-of-hearing or deaf on to this same "journey?"

Just a small correction: The instructor who refused to teach the deaf child was not audist: she was discriminating. The reason she was discriminating was audist.

Quite obviously, you have great difficulty understanding the sociological concept of audism and the way it is incorporated into all hearing persons' belief systems until the point at which they become introspective enough to examine those values.

You take great offense at the word "audist". You seem to think it is some sort of personal insult. It is not. It is a simply, supported, and documented sociological fact. Perhaps the reason you are so quick to be offended is because you refuse to take the time and make the effort to examine audist belief systems and the way you have been socialized to accept them without question.

But, it appears that you have no interest in discussing audism, Deafhood, or Deaf Culture in any depth either. You are too busy attempting to make personal judgements and point fingers at those that do. Your problem, not the rest of ours.

DeafCaroline · 06-10-2011, 10:51 AM

This is a pretty good explanation of what audism is: » Deaf Issues » Canadian Association of the Deaf

"Audism can be seen in two general aspects. One is the assumption or belief that people who are deaf must be encouraged (or even forced) to become as much like non-deaf people as possible. The other is to assume control over deaf people, to disempower them, by making decisions about their language(s), their education, the services they will need, and so on, with limited or no input by the D/deaf person and the Deaf community."

jillio · 06-10-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Ah, so people with an opposing viewpoint are bad.....baaaaad

But people who verbally abuse other members are good....gooooood (as long as you agree with them of course)

Gotcha.

No,that is not what Grummer is saying at all.

Many on here have oppposing viewpoints, and are able to discuss them rationally and intelligently. What gets koko into trouble is not his opposing viewpoints, but his air of superiority, his patronizing attitude, his hypocricy, and his distain for anyone that does not agree with him. In short, it is his attitude. He uses the Deaf on AD as a way to attempt to reconcile his bad experiences of being rejected by the Deaf in many different venues.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

This is a pretty good explanation of what audism is: » Deaf Issues » Canadian Association of the Deaf

"Audism can be seen in two general aspects. One is the assumption or belief that people who are deaf must be encouraged (or even forced) to become as much like non-deaf people as possible. The other is to assume control over deaf people, to disempower them, by making decisions about their language(s), their education, the services they will need, and so on, with limited or no input by the D/deaf person and the Deaf community."

Exactly. It is a sociological concept and a belief system that is socialized into every hearing, and formerly hearing, person from the time that they are children. It is beyond me why people cannot seem to maintain the objectivity necessary to discuss it as such rather than misinterpret it as "name calling".

Oh, well, their problem, not mine. Some are just not interested in personal growth.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

Heh.
To clarify, deaf militia is to me a healty response to audism.

While it's true that deaf militants are in a minority within the Deaf community, they are still part of the deaf community, especially among young people. The existence of deaf militia only tells me that audism is very alive and kicking.

I perfectly understand people who distances themselves from any militia, but licking the arse of audists when they use "deaf militia" as an insulting term without naming who they are talking about, isn't necessary, IMO.

Let's not forget the audist guerrillas who closes down deaf schools, pushes CI, and spread audist propaganda on deaf sites.

Cheers from the battlefield,
Lieutenant Flip

Actually, it is a healthy response. Unfortunately, there are those on here who use it as a slur. However, they are also the ones that are unable to discuss audism in it's reality and to admit to their own unconscious audist belief systems.

And then, they want to complain about name calling and intolerance of other belief systems.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hohtopics

Speaking of protesting too much...

What exactly have I protested? You need to be a bit more clear in your attempts to insult.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hohtopics

And that's for you to decide? The degree it becomes a part of their identity?

No, it is not for me to decide. It is for the individual to decide. It is for me to observe and point out the difference between identifying yourself as deaf and making Deaf your identity.

You still don't get it.

jillio · 06-10-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

"the Deaf"? grrr you should say Deaf people, that that, is so NOT on, so just for the record, I believe you are as good as a jar without a lid...

Yeah, kind of like saying, I've had experience with the Negroes, or the Mexicans. Dehumanizing way to put it, which is a direct result of ethnocentric socialization. And people exhibit that phenomena on a daily basis unconsciously, and then get butt hurt when it is pointed out to them.

missywinks · 06-10-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I agree with you 100%. I am pretty sure BeachGirl does as well... But let me ask you.....what do you think of the posters who feel the need to comment negatively or critically on one's journey? We have had many people in both threads discuss their journey and I have enjoyed reading each one. But I find it frustrating that a couple of posters have felt the need to suggest others are not doing it right. How do you feel about this?

It just irks me that they approach Deafhood as a "label" when it is not. I keep telling myself that people who are against this idea, are just going through their own journey themselves and hopefully, one day they will realize and understand. After all, I was in their shoes before. I am just doing my best to educate them. I do need to control my

sometimes.

missywinks · 06-10-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

This is a pretty good explanation of what audism is: » Deaf Issues » Canadian Association of the Deaf

"Audism can be seen in two general aspects. One is the assumption or belief that people who are deaf must be encouraged (or even forced) to become as much like non-deaf people as possible. The other is to assume control over deaf people, to disempower them, by making decisions about their language(s), their education, the services they will need, and so on, with limited or no input by the D/deaf person and the Deaf community."

Canadian Association of the Deaf ROCKS!

jillio · 06-10-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missywinks

It just irks me that they approach Deafhood as a "label" when it is not. I keep telling myself that people who are against this idea, are just going through their own journey themselves and hopefully, one day they will realize and understand. After all, I was in their shoes before. I am just doing my best to educate them. I do need to control my

sometimes.

No, you don't. Your anger is well controlled. And oftentimes, controlled anger influences.

missywinks · 06-10-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJWSmith

Thank you Grummer for responding to my query. I've ordered Paddy Ladd's book and look forward to reading it in its entirety.

It's a bit dry but the information is invaluable! Happy Reading!

missywinks · 06-10-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

a Classic mainstreamed denial

Koknut still doesn't get it. Again, Deafhood is not a GROUP. It is a personal journey...

**TXgolfer** · 06-10-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missywinks

Koknut still doesn't get it. Again, Deafhood is not a GROUP. It is a personal journey...

Actually I think Koko gets it and pretty much agrees with you. I think the issue he is stating is that some tend to pervert that journey into something akin to deaf culture. Koko is certainly choosing to live with his hearing loss his way. I don't think there is any question he has accepted is and coped with it. It is just a different path than many others took

**Jiro** · 06-10-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Actually I think Koko gets it and pretty much agrees with you.

nope. He does not like the "Deafhood's" label and its political ideology (which I have no idea what's he talking about since he avoided this question repeatedly) and group think (which I have no idea what's he talking about either).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

I think the issue he is stating is that some tend to pervert that journey into something akin to deaf culture. Koko is certainly choosing to live with his hearing loss his way. I don't think there is any question he has accepted is and coped with it.

so do we.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

It is just a different path than many others took

no one's journey is same anyway. His journey is nothing more or less unique than ours. I dunno but it sounds like he thinks his journey is "special"

**Bottesini** · 06-10-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

nope. He does not like the "Deafhood's" label and its political ideology (which I have no idea what's he talking about since he avoided this question repeatedly) and group think (which I have no idea what's he talking about either).

So you never watch deafvideotv ?
so do we.

no one's journey is same anyway. His journey is nothing more or less unique than ours. I dunno but it sounds like he thinks his journey is "special"

**TXgolfer** · 06-10-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

nope. He does not like the "Deafhood's" label and its political ideology (which I have no idea what's he talking about since he avoided this question repeatedly) and group think (which I have no idea what's he talking about either).

so do we.

no one's journey is same anyway. His journey is nothing more or less unique than ours. I dunno but it sounds like he thinks his journey is "special"

Ah I think you know what "group think" is......you used we.

as for thinking his journey is special.....I would hope he thinks that.

kokonut · 06-10-2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

a Classic mainstreamed denial

Classic militant response.

06-10-2011, 09:07 AM	#549 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,515	Interesting thread. I'm deaf and Deaf. Looking forward to telling my friends, even the hearing and Hearing. jillio and missywinks like this.

06-10-2011, 10:51 AM	#554 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	This is a pretty good explanation of what audism is: » Deaf Issues » Canadian Association of the Deaf "Audism can be seen in two general aspects. One is the assumption or belief that people who are deaf must be encouraged (or even forced) to become as much like non-deaf people as possible. The other is to assume control over deaf people, to disempower them, by making decisions about their language(s), their education, the services they will need, and so on, with limited or no input by the D/deaf person and the Deaf community." posts from hell, jillio, Buffalo and 2 others like this.

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06-10-2011, 08:09 AM	#548 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	OK, point taken.