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Unread 05-02-2011, 12:49 PM   #121 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LoveBlue View Post
No, that's just the date when he first experienced SILENCE. He became deaf years before that when he began wearing HAs or more likely even years before that.
Oh, I agree with you. And so does every other thinking person. But since he classifies "deaf" as "silence" it appears that the date for both is one and the same.

Which would also provoke the question: exactly how many years has there been a real life opportunity to learn about Deaf Culture?
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Unread 05-02-2011, 12:51 PM   #122 (permalink)
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There will be some very sparse discussions if you begin limiting participation to those who actually know what they are talking about, and far fewer if your prerequisite for conversation involves "studying" the topic.

I've seen people who haven't studied relationships and really don't understand their own discuss such things in the Relationships threads. I've seen people who are not parents -- or who have not been well-parented -- participate in discussions in the Parenting threads. Politics? Is everyone involved in those threads a student - formal or otherwise -- of economics, foreign policy, public policy, health care management, etc.? I've also seen people who did not study education, and who do not feel they received a great education provide input in the Deaf education threads. Not least, there are even people who haven't studied cochlear implants who attempt to discuss topics related to CIs, from evaluation to surgery to outcomes.

Besides, DrPhil interacts with other deaf in organized activities, shares with them distinctive experiences, some common values, interacts on this forum (and likely others) etc. -- who is to say that what he has been living every day isn't how Deaf Culture can manifest in some environments and for some people.
There is discussion, and then there is consistent and constant negative contribution based on a lack of information that one appears not to be willing to remediate. I don't limit discussion. However, in the OP of my pwn thread, I did request that these innane comments be absent. They contribute nothing to an awareness or an understanding of the culture.

Deaf swimming? But to answer your question, because manifestation of cultural affiliation contains facets completely absent from drphil's existence and precludes many that are present.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 07:08 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Is deaf swimming a real activity? I do in fact go swimming almost everyday and it is real quiet! Does this suggest that other deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf person experience something different-hearing?

Supposedly I was "real deaf" WITHOUT KNOWING IT before I experienced silence. Is this another manifestation of the sheer unclarity that seems to abound on this topic?
I am not unduly bothered doesn't change anything at the current time-Implant working fine.

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Unread 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Swimming is a real activity. No doubt about it. I love to swim too!

Why "deaf" swimming? So what if you can't hear the water splashing as you swim? Why does it have to be called deaf swimming?

Any time you have a hearing loss, you have a hearing loss. You were already deaf for years before you experienced total silence, in which you got your CI. What is your concern about what day you became "deaf" (December as you have said)? How does that specific day make things different for you, just curious?
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Unread 05-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Is deaf swimming a real activity? I do in fact go swimming almost everyday and it is real quiet! Does this suggest that other deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf person experience something different-hearing?

Supposedly I was "real deaf" WITHOUT KNOWING IT before I experienced silence. Is this another manifestation of the sheer unclarity that seems to abound on this topic?
I am not unduly bothered doesn't change anything at the current time-Implant working fine.

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Did you not wear a hearing aid for years before you expereienced silence? If so, then you were deaf during those years you wore the hearing aid.

When you swim, are you swimming with other deaf people (is it a swim session perhaps for deafs only?) or are you swimming with hearing people? I think you have confused some here into thinking you belong to a deaf swim "club" with your constant mentioning of deaf swimming.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 07:31 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Is deaf swimming a real activity? I do in fact go swimming almost everyday and it is real quiet! Does this suggest that other deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf person experience something different-hearing?

Supposedly I was "real deaf" WITHOUT KNOWING IT before I experienced silence. Is this another manifestation of the sheer unclarity that seems to abound on this topic?
I am not unduly bothered doesn't change anything at the current time-Implant working fine.

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There is no lack of clarity on the topic, other than that which comes from your posts.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 12:07 AM   #127 (permalink)
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Ancient history-hearing wise. I have had Hearing aids since the middle 60s. First one ear than both. Lost all hearing in right ear-Feb 19/92. I was in the Profound-90 db category. I didn't perceive myself to be deaf-then. My ENT doctor advise the likelihood of becoming. bilaterally deaf in the future. That occurred December 20, 2006.

Am I swimming at a deaf centre with other deaf/Deaf persons? NO City of Toronto rec centres. Deaf swimming-just an activity. My implant is disconnected for about an hour. Not waterproof. Easy to experience silence.

The date stands out because I knew that I finally became deaf. I started the process at-St Michaels ENT Clinic for referral to- re Cochlear Implant section at Sunnybrook/Toronto. First appointment there- Feb 4/07.

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Unread 05-03-2011, 06:03 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Ancient history-hearing wise. I have had Hearing aids since the middle 60s. First one ear than both. Lost all hearing in right ear-Feb 19/92. I was in the Profound-90 db category. I didn't perceive myself to be deaf-then. My ENT doctor advise the likelihood of becoming. bilaterally deaf in the future. That occurred December 20, 2006.

Am I swimming at a deaf centre with other deaf/Deaf persons? NO City of Toronto rec centres. Deaf swimming-just an activity. My implant is disconnected for about an hour. Not waterproof. Easy to experience silence.

The date stands out because I knew that I finally became deaf. I started the process at-St Michaels ENT Clinic for referral to- re Cochlear Implant section at Sunnybrook/Toronto. First appointment there- Feb 4/07.

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You didn't perceive being deaf, but you were.

I didn't ask if you swam at a deaf centre.

By the way, you're still deaf even when you're wearing your CI.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 07:19 AM   #129 (permalink)
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You didn't perceive being deaf, but you were.

I didn't ask if you swam at a deaf centre.

By the way, you're still deaf even when you're wearing your CI.
I'd assume that drphil operates under the same assumptions a majority of hearing (and seeing) people operate under: "deaf" means "complete silence", everything else is "just hearing loss"; (likewise, "blind" means "no vision whatsoever", everything else is "just vision loss").

For people defining their self-identities, I don't think this is a real issue. It's just when they start labeling others that it becomes a problem.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 08:19 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Exactly. It was a phenomena long before it was given a specific term.
When I was growing up, Deaf would refer to the Deaf world and the Hearing world. Nowadays, I think they'd refer to the Deaf culture.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 08:29 AM   #131 (permalink)
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If one labels their condition-deafness-why would anyone else get excited? So far, haven't "labelled" anyone deaf/Deaf/Blind deaf whatever". I am not affected if someone defines themselves in whatever matter.

Doesn't self identities come from perceived facts? Again, just an intermural exercise in Sociology. Interesting interplay into "perceived theology/philosophy"


How much this assists anyone in dealing with " real hearing loss/deafness VS self defined" problematical..

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Unread 05-03-2011, 08:45 AM   #132 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone thinks textbooks are worthless -- But by the time you are 40 you develop a very low tolerance of the next 20 year old who tells you, "You don't know what you are talking about. I just read the latest textbooks in college and they say..."





Tractenberg system of speed mathematics. Chi San Bop. Khan Academy The list is longer but my memory fails me.

When I was a kid in school I could not comprehend standard fractions let alone manipulate them. So I found a simple solution. I converted all the standard fractions to decimal fractions worked the equations in a simple to understand manner, then converted them back to get the answer.

The school punished me because I "refused to conform" my mother argued that I should be pushed ahead to a more advanced class.
I used cooking to teach myself fractions. For example, I lost my 1/4 cup so I use 4 tablepspoons to make 1/4 of anything.

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Assuming you can tell the difference.


My name was once Nomad. As I bounced around from place to place I noticed textbooks that discussed the Civil War. The ones from Main, the ones from Georgia, and the ones from California -- They could have been three different countries writing about three different wars.
Yep. I remember I decided to do some research on the Civil War so I started with the Confederate States Constitution and visited Confederate battlesites so I could draw my own conclusions re the War

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There is no way to get rid of bias due to politics, time, and place. The only thing you can do is recognize it and compensate for it.
Quite true. I like CNN because it's the most neutral news site in the USA. Note the I said most. It's not 100% neutral though.



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It is unimportant where you start. What is important is the questions you ask and where they lead you. Don't just ask individual questions, ask them in sets.

Who agrees with an idea. Why do they agree. How did they come by this knowledge and/or belief.

Who disagrees with an idea. Why do they disagree. How did they come by this knowledge and/or belief.

Who and/or what benefits? Someone and/or something (such as a government or a culture) always does.

Who and/or what suffers? Same.
I learned to never ask people some of my endless questions cuz it tends to challenge their way of thinking.

For example, I asked myself was the Civil War really about state rights and not slavery? I drew a different conclusion when I read the Confederate Constituation. Such a question would upset some members of my family.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 12:56 PM   #133 (permalink)
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I'd assume that drphil operates under the same assumptions a majority of hearing (and seeing) people operate under: "deaf" means "complete silence", everything else is "just hearing loss"; (likewise, "blind" means "no vision whatsoever", everything else is "just vision loss").

For people defining their self-identities, I don't think this is a real issue. It's just when they start labeling others that it becomes a problem.
Exactly. Which is why his posts have been termed "hearing think".
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Unread 05-03-2011, 01:55 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Exactly. Which is why his posts have been termed "hearing think".
But I have not given up yet.

Just the other day we reached to the point that drphil knows ASL is more expressive.

He is learning. Not agreeing yet, but I have time.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 01:59 PM   #135 (permalink)
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But I have not given up yet.

Just the other day we reached to the point that drphil knows ASL is more expressive.

He is learning. Not agreeing yet, but I have time.
Cool. I am happy to hear that you are making progress, Bott!
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Unread 05-03-2011, 07:06 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Bottesini: stating that ASL/ et al is expressive is just a statement of fact.

Relax in the Rocking Chair and 3 pots of green tea with your herd of sleeping hounds. Right a 3 meows from Prof SKY

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Unread 05-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Bottesini: stating that ASL/ et al is expressive is just a statement of fact.

Relax in the Rocking Chair and 3 pots of green tea with your herd of sleeping hounds. Right a 3 meows from Prof SKY

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Relaxing with decaf Earl Grey. We send love to Prof SKY.

You are correct about ASL as fact.

The fact that you were deaf even in medical terminology before you had complete silence is also fact.

Ask your doctor. I promise I am correct.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 10:51 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Oh well-I suppose I could back to St Micheals'/Toronto ENT clinic ask why I didn't believe is I was really bilaterally deaf PRIOR to December 20, 2006.

On the face of it seems like a futile exercise-how come I wasn't started on the Cochlear Implant process at Sunnybrook/Toronto say in 2005? I even believed that my Phonak LL6 was working. It still worked after December 20, 2006. That how I knew i was then deaf. Amazing. that one's perception of silence deemed so subjective.Note: easy test-turn it on-does it "whistle/hum"? Wasn't dead battery! Something else-me!

Remember I was NOT a member of Alldeaf.com then.

Enjoy your extended rest in the Rocking Chair-no comment from Prof SKY-asleep at the moment

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Unread 05-03-2011, 11:12 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Oh well-I suppose I could back to St Micheals'/Toronto ENT clinic ask why I didn't believe is I was really bilaterally deaf PRIOR to December 20, 2006.

On the face of it seems like a futile exercise-how come I wasn't started on the Cochlear Implant process at Sunnybrook/Toronto say in 2005? I even believed that my Phonak LL6 was working. It still worked after December 20, 2006. That how I knew i was then deaf. Amazing. that one's perception of silence deemed so subjective.Note: easy test-turn it on-does it "whistle/hum"? Wasn't dead battery! Something else-me!

Remember I was NOT a member of Alldeaf.com then.

Enjoy your extended rest in the Rocking Chair-no comment from Prof SKY-asleep at the moment

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People have managed to get the implants for kids with something like a 65 db loss which I am sure you had many, many years before you came to complete silence.

So your definition of deafness isn't actually a necessary qualifier for the implant.

SO I don't know why they did not offer you one sooner.
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Unread 05-04-2011, 09:47 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Oh well-I suppose I could back to St Micheals'/Toronto ENT clinic ask why I didn't believe is I was really bilaterally deaf PRIOR to December 20, 2006.

On the face of it seems like a futile exercise-how come I wasn't started on the Cochlear Implant process at Sunnybrook/Toronto say in 2005? I even believed that my Phonak LL6 was working. It still worked after December 20, 2006. That how I knew i was then deaf. Amazing. that one's perception of silence deemed so subjective.Note: easy test-turn it on-does it "whistle/hum"? Wasn't dead battery! Something else-me!

Remember I was NOT a member of Alldeaf.com then.

Enjoy your extended rest in the Rocking Chair-no comment from Prof SKY-asleep at the moment

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They would tell you that only you can answer that question. They don't know why you were in denial for so long. No doubt it had much to do with fear of being inferior.
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Unread 05-04-2011, 10:19 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Well I never was in denial being deaf. I still assert I became Bilaterally deaf-December 20, 2006 As stated above my Hearing aid worked-before and after that date.I don't subscribe to the "theory that any deaf/Deaf can still use a hearing aid". Why not assert being "Hearing Impaired"? Is this another round of Alice in Deaf/deaf land?

I am aware that here in Ontario the criteria has been changed recently-re Profound level will be considered for Cochlear Implants AFTER the bilaterally deaf. Thus more operations are now done. Not of much value to me-- 5 years ago.

I don't "fear" that deafness leads one to be/feel inferior.

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Unread 05-04-2011, 10:22 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Well I never was in denial being deaf. I still assert I became Bilaterally deaf-December 20, 2006 As stated above my Hearing aid worked-before and after that date.I don't subscribe to the "theory that any deaf/Deaf can still use a hearing aid". Why not assert being "Hearing Impaired"? Is this another round of Alice in Deaf/deaf land?

I am aware that here in Ontario the criteria has been changed recently-re Profound level will be considered for Cochlear Implants AFTER the bilaterally deaf. Thus more operations are now done. Not of much value to me-- 5 years ago.

I don't "fear" that deafness leads one to be/feel inferior.

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You are still in denial.
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Unread 05-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #143 (permalink)
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Really?

I am still bilaterally deaf since December 20, 2006 not withstanding the computer "diagnosis" after joining.Alldeaf.com July/10. Is this something new in ENT medical practice?

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Unread 05-04-2011, 10:42 PM   #144 (permalink)
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Really?

I am still bilaterally deaf since December 20, 2006 not withstanding the computer "diagnosis" after joining.Alldeaf.com July/10. Is this something new in ENT medical practice?

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You were deaf prior to Dec.20, 2006. You just deny it. Not new at all.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 05:52 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com

partially or wholly lacking or deprived of the sense of hearing; unable to hear.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:35 AM   #146 (permalink)
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apparently deaf awareness = shoving a label down the throat of deaf people?

Why so important for others to define who DrPhil is and has been and exactly when he "should" have begun identifying as "deaf" or "Deaf"?

His experience isn't yours; his identity, his journey is just that, HIS.

This unrelenting and desperate need to label and control and convince him of who he is and has been speaks far more about those who are wielding the sacred "approved 100% deaf" stamp.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 08:09 AM   #147 (permalink)
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I'm not trying to label him, just educating him that he was physically deaf long before his silence.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 08:52 AM   #148 (permalink)
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Why so important for others to define who DrPhil is and has been and exactly when he "should" have begun identifying as "deaf" or "Deaf"?

His experience isn't yours; his identity, his journey is just that, HIS.

This unrelenting and desperate need to label and control and convince him of who he is and has been speaks far more about those who are wielding the sacred "approved 100% deaf" stamp.
Most people are not trying to label or control drphil. I don't think they could anyway.

We are having a civil discussion in which he is a willing and happy, (I hope) participant.

The fact that he has joined us here, indicates that he is interested and the fact that he doesn't leave indicates to me that he enjoys our company and the mental stimulation.

He also has lots to contribute. I know know much more about the ear physically than I ever did due to his suggestion of starting to read medical texts.

And he wouldn't label me deaf due to the fact that I can hear some with a hearing aid. I don't experience 100 percent silence, but he is still happy to be my friend even if he thinks I am not deaf and if he thinks I am misguided to try to explain to him that he was deaf for a long time.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:26 PM   #149 (permalink)
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I didn't think either that we were trying to label drPhil.

My questions to him were honest ones. Like why the "deaf" swimming vs. regular swimming, etc., and so forth. If they were blunt, then they were blunt, but not intending to be mean. I can't speak for everyone else, though.

I guess some will see it differently. It can sometimes be hard to put a tone on writings.
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Unread 05-05-2011, 06:49 PM   #150 (permalink)
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Why deaf swimming-it is. I really don't suddenly revert to hearing when I go swimming-does anyone? I am bilaterally deaf.

No comment on whether sleeping is a deaf activity?

This computer has NO sound system-real quiet. Right everyone is deaf here. That is okay with me-no problem keying. As stated before just another intermural round in Sociology.

Bottesini: hope PFH takes your valuable resting tip: the Rocking chair and hot tea/water. PROF SKY just woke and meowed your herd of hounds. Your other tip-count backwards from 2 billion should keep things quiet-TEMPORARILY.
Time will tell.

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