The Deaf Community

[Hohtopics]

Originally Posted by deafgal001

Inspired about what?

Since you asked, that I did very well school and was in the honor class, etc...

[AlleyCat]

Originally Posted by HHIssues

And many of the deaf are choosing the CI route for themselves. Even some of the culturally deaf...

That's because that's a decision they made for themselves. I know -- I considered one myself. I went through the entire process and stopped short at the ENT/MRI stage because visits with my CI audi determined I would not get enough benefit out of it that I already don't get with my HAs. I shared my journey with that process on this forum 2 years ago, including test results that showed what I just said. Anyhow, I've been deaf since birth, been fully immersed in ASL, the deaf culture, learned to speak, etc. and I still considered a CI. It is the same for the others who chose a CI for themselves. I wouldn't have dropped deaf friends, wouldn't have stopped using ASL. It is all a part of my life.

So, what is your point about those choosing the CI route for themselves?

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

That's because that's a decision they made for themselves. I know -- I considered one myself. I went through the entire process and stopped short at the ENT/MRI stage because visits with my CI audi determined I would not get enough benefit out of it that I already don't get with my HAs. I shared my journey with that process on this forum 2 years ago, including test results that showed what I just said. Anyhow, I've been deaf since birth, been fully immersed in ASL, the deaf culture, learned to speak, etc. and I still considered a CI. It is the same for the others who chose a CI for themselves. I wouldn't have dropped deaf friends, wouldn't have stopped using ASL. It is all a part of my life.

So, what is your point about those choosing the CI route for themselves?

Same here. Several years ago my family was encouraging me to get a CI, so I went through the whole process and was assured I was an ideal candidate. I saw a few audiologists, listened to their pitches, and in the end decided that my hearing aids did the job well enough for me. My family accepted my decision, which was wise on their part, lol. I now live in a town with a strong deaf community, and there are only a few with CI's. It turns out that those with the CI's are split--half are satisfied with it while the other half complain that it did not meet their expectations. So, I have no regrets. I LOVE the sound of silence and the music it makes!

[GrendelQ]

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

That's because that's a decision they made for themselves. I know -- I considered one myself. I went through the entire process and stopped short at the ENT/MRI stage because visits with my CI audi determined I would not get enough benefit out of it that I already don't get with my HAs. I shared my journey with that process on this forum 2 years ago, including test results that showed what I just said. Anyhow, I've been deaf since birth, been fully immersed in ASL, the deaf culture, learned to speak, etc. and I still considered a CI. It is the same for the others who chose a CI for themselves. I wouldn't have dropped deaf friends, wouldn't have stopped using ASL. It is all a part of my life.

So, what is your point about those choosing the CI route for themselves?

Alley Cat, I believe this too -- I don't see that accepting, considering, or even choosing a CI is in any way a repudiation to being Deaf, of using ASL, of identifying as deaf.

[update: just want to clarify the "I believe this too" part in that I'm agreeing with you, AlleyCat]

[posts from hell]

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

Alley Cat, I believe this too -- I don't see that accepting, considering, or even choosing a CI is in any way a repudiation to being Deaf, of using ASL, of identifying as deaf.

Do you see ci's as in doctors profiting off the deaf?

Like I said... Gotta walk in our shoes...

[GrendelQ]

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Do you see ci's as in doctors profiting off the deaf?

Like I said... Gotta walk in our shoes...

Do I think Doctors profit off the deaf? No, no more than they profit off the hearing.

[Oceanbreeze]

Originally Posted by Buffalo

Maybe the late deafened don't need to learn sign language if they decided on CI. The young deaf babies and kids sure do need ASL. They need to be able to develop a language.

I think that's a big maybe. Even though someone may go most of their lives hearing and retain auditory memory after a loss, they'd still need to learn sign to communicate. You just can't snap a finger and be implanted in a blink of an eye. The process is probably much the same as it is for infants. A person must qualify for a CI. What if that person's loss doesn't? Then, what? I think ASL can benefit the late deafened individual as well. Whether they choose that route, though, is up to them.

[Hohtopics]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I think that's a big maybe. Even though someone may go most of their lives hearing and retain auditory memory after a loss, they'd still need to learn sign to communicate. You just can't snap a finger and be implanted in a blink of an eye. The process is probably much the same as it is for infants. A person must qualify for a CI. What if that person's loss doesn't? Then, what? I think ASL can benefit the late deafened individual as well. Whether they choose that route, though, is up to them.

Again, what's with you talking as if you know it all? And again, what's with you promoting ASL? What is it to you? You even said it yourself that you're not even that fluent in it?

How would you feel if someone that doesn't use a wheelchair comes across acting like he or she knows it all on what should be the solution for all those that does use a wheelchair?

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by HHIssues

Again, what's with you talking as if you know it all? And again, what's with you promoting ASL? What is it to you? You even said it yourself that you're not even that fluent in it?

How would you feel if someone that doesn't use a wheelchair comes across acting like he or she knows it all on what should be the solution for all those that does use a wheelchair?

Why the defensiveness?

[souggy]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by HHIssues

Again, what's with you talking as if you know it all? And again, what's with you promoting ASL? What is it to you? You even said it yourself that you're not even that fluent in it?

How would you feel if someone that doesn't use a wheelchair comes across acting like he or she knows it all on what should be the solution for all those that does use a wheelchair?

Are you talking about me?


I remember I got into hot water for that for trying to help a person getting into wheelchair sports when I didn't know the person's conditions.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by Bebonang

That is why I put my signature underline which indicate that it is still awesome to be deaf as I am glad that I don't have to follow with their hearing environment every time the hearing person make expression like almost close their eyes and kind of cower their shoulder that the noises is too much to bear and they can not stand the noises. SILENCE IS GOLDEN. Deafness is a lot better than hearing.

Why is this ok to say? Why isn't anyone saying that this is reverse audism??

[Oceanbreeze]

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Do you see ci's as in doctors profiting off the deaf?

Like I said... Gotta walk in our shoes...

Now, that is something I don't know about. I'm sure there is kick-backs somewhere, but, I don't think that's any reason to be against the CI. Here's why I say that....

Dr's get a kick back from the pharmaceutical companies every time they prescribe a med for someone. Unfortunately, it happens within the medical community. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but, I'm also not sure it's a valid reason against implantation. I'm still thinking on that one.

We CAN agree on this, though. The medical establishment is corrupt. I cited the pharmaceutical example. I'm sure people can come up with more examples if they looked into it and dug deep enough.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by HHIssues

Again, what's with you talking as if you know it all? And again, what's with you promoting ASL? What is it to you? You even said it yourself that you're not even that fluent in it?

How would you feel if someone that doesn't use a wheelchair comes across acting like he or she knows it all on what should be the solution for all those that does use a wheelchair?

She is promoted BOTH ASL and spoken English. Is that hard to understand? What's wrong with exposing all children to both anyway. Will it kill them?

[Oceanbreeze]

Originally Posted by shel90

She is promoted BOTH ASL and spoken English. Is that hard to understand? What's wrong with exposing all children to both anyway. Will it kill them?

Thank you, Shel. I've beat the drum for ASL, because, it needs to be put out there. Spoken language seems to be the "default" hearing parents will go to when bringing up a deaf baby because of the advice they receive from the medical community. However, yes, I promote both ASL and spoken English.

I don't get why people are all torqued out about my viewpoints. Well, I DO get it, but we won't go there again. It's already been said and resaid.

And, I'll say yet again....


I'm for:

1. ASL (or hell, lets just say sign if it will make people feel better! ASL, PSE, SEE, whatever...I'm for it!)
2. A full toolbox approach (spoken language, sign language, ect).
3.Cochlear implants.

I'm against:

ORAL ONLY! Period.

And, to answer your question. No, it won't. What will hold a child back is a language delay. Also, what happens IF the cochlear implant doesn't work or the kid isn't a candidate for the CI?.

The CI works for the majority, but it doesn't work for all. There will always be someone the CI doesn't work for. Then, what is that person supposed to do? They probably will learn to sign, right? The problem is, time has passed and it becomes harder to learn a language as time goes on. So, why not just learn ASL from the jump and get a head of the curve?

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Thank you, Shel. I've beat the drum for ASL, because, it needs to be put out there. Spoken language seems to be the "default" hearing parents will go to when bringing up a deaf baby because of the advice they receive from the medical community. However, yes, I promote both ASL and spoken English.

I don't get why people are all torqued out about my viewpoints. Well, I DO get it, but we won't go there again. It's already been said and resaid.

And, I'll say yet again....


I'm for:

1. ASL (or hell, lets just say sign if it will make people feel better! ASL, PSE, SEE, whatever...I'm for it!)
2. A full toolbox approach (spoken language, sign language, ect).
3.Cochlear implants.

I'm against:

ORAL ONLY! Period.

And, to answer your question. No, it won't. What will hold a child back is a language delay. Also, what happens IF the cochlear implant doesn't work or the kid isn't a candidate for the CI?.

The CI works for the majority, but it doesn't work for all. There will always be someone the CI doesn't work for. Then, what is that person supposed to do? They probably will learn to sign, right? The problem is, time has passed and it becomes harder to learn a language as time goes on. So, why not just learn ASL from the jump and get a head of the curve?

And it is those kids I see...and it is not a small number. It is hundreds. Why should they be punished jsut because some kids were successful orally? No excuse in the world will ever convince me.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Thank you, Shel. I've beat the drum for ASL, because, it needs to be put out there. Spoken language seems to be the "default" hearing parents will go to when bringing up a deaf baby because of the advice they receive from the medical community. However, yes, I promote both ASL and spoken English.

I don't get why people are all torqued out about my viewpoints. Well, I DO get it, but we won't go there again. It's already been said and resaid.

And, I'll say yet again....


I'm for:

1. ASL (or hell, lets just say sign if it will make people feel better! ASL, PSE, SEE, whatever...I'm for it!)
2. A full toolbox approach (spoken language, sign language, ect).
3.Cochlear implants.

I'm against:

ORAL ONLY! Period.

And, to answer your question. No, it won't. What will hold a child back is a language delay. Also, what happens IF the cochlear implant doesn't work or the kid isn't a candidate for the CI?.

The CI works for the majority, but it doesn't work for all. There will always be someone the CI doesn't work for. Then, what is that person supposed to do? They probably will learn to sign, right? The problem is, time has passed and it becomes harder to learn a language as time goes on. So, why not just learn ASL from the jump and get a head of the curve?

I guess my question is: why do you have an opinion at all? If you are not deaf, Deaf, or have Deaf family, or a deaf child, why do you think you know enough to have an opinion about the subject?

[Bottesini]

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I guess my question is: why do you have an opinion at all? If you are not deaf, Deaf, or have Deaf family, or a deaf child, why do you think you know enough to have an opinion about the subject?

I think that is the main problem OB faces here. Most deaf people have had far too many opinions and orders from hearing people running their lives for years.

The majority of TOD's, ENT's, and audiologists are not deaf nor have deaf family.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I guess my question is: why do you have an opinion at all? If you are not deaf, Deaf, or have Deaf family, or a deaf child, why do you think you know enough to have an opinion about the subject?

Because she listens to us.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think that is the main problem OB faces here. Most deaf people have had far too many opinions and orders from hearing people running their lives for years.

The majority of TOD's, ENT's, and audiologists are not deaf nor have deaf family.

And I would never listen to an audiologist's opinion about anything to do with deafness except for the technical sceince of measuring hearing loss and fitting amplification.

[Bottesini]

Originally Posted by faire_jour

And I would never listen to an audiologist's opinion about anything to do with deafness except for the technical sceince of measuring hearing loss and fitting amplification.

Nor should you. Anything else is not their business.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by shel90

Because she listens to us.

She tells you what you want to hear.

Is she out there fighting for kids, for equal access, for resources for deaf kids? Is she she lobbying for a "Deaf children's bill of rights" or fundraising for a Deaf school? Is she helping with Early Intervention or helping parents find local resources so they can actually provide this "full toolbox" for which she advocates?

OR

Does she show up on a Deaf message board and preach in "holier than thou" way about how parents who FACE IT EVERY DAY, are wrong and she is right. While having never leaved as a Deaf person OR a parent??

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Nor should you. Anything else is not their business.

I agree completely.

[Oceanbreeze]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think that is the main problem OB faces here. Most deaf people have had far too many opinions and orders from hearing people running their lives for years.

The majority of TOD's, ENT's, and audiologists are not deaf nor have deaf family.

I've never had a problem here until now and I've been on and off this forum since 2004.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, listen to me, ect. Many won't. I can accept that.

I've had to prove myself, but I feel I already have. I refuse to keep doing so over and over again. I've already put a few on ignore. If someone doesn't want to see my posts, they can do the same. It's a two way street, but I'm not going to back down from what I believe; nor am I going to allow anyone to bully me from this forum simply because they don't like that I'm here.

[GrendelQ]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I don't get why people are all torqued out about my viewpoints. Well, I DO get it, but we won't go there again. It's already been said and resaid.

And, I'll say yet again....

And I'll ask yet again, why have you targeted me as someone who has attacked your viewpoint (not sure what you mean by "torqued" in this context?)? I promote both spoken language and ASL. I'm not just beating a drum because I like the sound, I'm actually practicing what I preach, walking the talk, eating my own cooking, putting my own skin in the game, and so on.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

And I'll ask yet again, why have you targeted me as someone who has attacked your viewpoint (not sure what you mean by "torqued" in this context?)? I promote both spoken language and ASL. I'm not just beating a drum because I like the sound, I'm actually practicing what I preach, walking the talk, eating my own cooking, putting my own skin in the game, and so on.

I want to know why someone who has no investment in the deaf community, deaf education or anything thing else, believes that they have the right to criticize ANY parent for their choices. It is like being a "Monday morning quarterback"....it must be a nice view from the SIDELINES! It's easy to judge when you don't have a stake in it...

[Bottesini]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I've never had a problem here until now and I've been on and off this forum since 2004.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, listen to me, ect. Many won't. I can accept that.

I've had to prove myself, but I feel I already have. I refuse to keep doing so over and over again. I've already put a few on ignore. If someone doesn't want to see my posts, they can do the same. It's a two way street, but I'm not going to back down from what I believe; nor am I going to allow anyone to bully me from this forum simply because they don't like that I'm here.

I don't care what you do. I answered from the deaf perspective why you meet with hostility.

[Oceanbreeze]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I don't care what you do. I answered from the deaf perspective why you meet with hostility.

And, why is that? Fear?

I know that some people are hostile towards me, and, I know why they're hostile. It's not my issue. The hostility is only hurting them. By being hostile, they deprive themselves of an opportunity to help someone to understand them.

Hostility never helps anyone. It only hurts. It's understandable, but at the same time, the hostility is exactly the reason the two worlds are so set apart.

What do you think would happen if a deaf person and a hearing person came together and actually learned from one another? It would only improve things for the deaf; I would think. And, really, isn't that what we want? More understanding for what the deaf deal with on a daily basis?

[Bottesini]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

And, why is that? Fear?

I know that some people are hostile towards me, and, I know why they're hostile. It's not my issue. The hostility is only hurting them. By being hostile, they deprive themselves of an opportunity to help someone to understand them.

Hostility never helps anyone. It only hurts. It's understandable, but at the same time, the hostility is exactly the reason the two worlds are so set apart.

What do you think would happen if a deaf person and a hearing person came together and actually learned from one another? It would only improve things for the deaf; I would think. And, really, isn't that what we want? More understanding for what the deaf deal with on a daily basis?

No I don't think it is fear. I think people are just annoyed because you have no actual investment in it.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by faire_jour

She tells you what you want to hear.

Is she out there fighting for kids, for equal access, for resources for deaf kids? Is she she lobbying for a "Deaf children's bill of rights" or fundraising for a Deaf school? Is she helping with Early Intervention or helping parents find local resources so they can actually provide this "full toolbox" for which she advocates?

OR

Does she show up on a Deaf message board and preach in "holier than thou" way about how parents who FACE IT EVERY DAY, are wrong and she is right. While having never leaved as a Deaf person OR a parent??

Have you lived your life in a wheelchair, lived your life facing discrimination because you dont fit in society's idea of what a normal person should be, and have you lived your life constantly having to prove yourself to ignorant people?

OB has...so I respect her.

[faire_jour]

Originally Posted by shel90

Have you lived your life in a wheelchair, lived your life facing discrimination because you dont fit in society's idea of what a normal person should be, and have you lived your life constantly having to prove yourself to ignorant people?

OB has...so I respect her.

I would never pretend to understand where she is coming from, so why does she insist on thinking she has ANY idea what my life or my child's life is like?