Making small talk with hearing strangers - Page 7

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

Not everything is just about you faire_jour. There are tons of hearing people out there with that mentality, people you and I don't even know. It's not fair to put words in Shel's mouth like that.

And again, your question has been answered. Just because deaf people have complaints about every day annoyances doesn't make them want to be hearing. Hearing people have every day complaints about noises and distractions and other things that pertain to hearing, but that doesn't make them want to be deaf.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Again, you still do not understand our POV. Shel was not speaking about you specifically. There are a few others here on AD that are of the same mindset as you. We are not denouncing your views for your daughter. In fact, I think most of us, myself included, applaud your efforts with your daughter. For some of us, that road is unattainable, most especially, the late deafened, or those of us how were hoh as a child and it got worse as time goes on. For me, I usually had no problems with people growing up since my hearing was not real bad. As I got older, the hearing got worse and worse, and daily interaction became harder and harder. Now, I have absolutely no hearing and HA's and CI's will not help. So, I am at a loss. I try to explain to people, they don't accommodate or try. I have family who will not try to learn ASL. This includes my husband, mother, 2 children and brothers. They find it too hard and not what they want. Therefore, it's hard for me. In public, the hearing community is so into the "be like us or don't try to associate with us" mentality, that it's easier to just "nod, bob, and play-act" just to get through. Miss Kat and you have to advantage that she learned ASL early and she has enough residual hearing to be able to work with a CI or 2.

With the advancement of the ADA laws and such, you would think that the general public as a whole, would understand our POV and try to work with us. I'm not saying a total "we will have to learn ASL/BSL/whatever, just so we can communicate. All we want is for people to try to understand what we as deaf and HOH people go through and try to help in small ways. It's hard to explain, but mostly.... We are people too!!

**KristinaB** · 08-17-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I totally agree that people are generally a$$holes, but I hope that if you explain, people try to understand, and work with you.

I guess the real issue is with the Deaf people who declare "ASL is all a child needs" and say that parents who give their children CI's are all "audist" and geneocidal, eugenic monsters. I guess I want to put it this way, if your struggles everyday are directly related to being unable to hear and understand people, wouldn't I be helping my child by giving her the ability to hear and understand people??

Nobody is saying (that I know of) that you messed up with your child. Yes, you did right, by your beliefs, for her and she may well thank you in the end. But, there are a lot of us, who didn't have that choice when we were younger or little. There are also some of us, Shel and myself anyway, that were not given any opportunity to learn ASL or anything other than being given our HA's. I think, it's people like that that have a harder time. Shel and others were lucky in the fact that they were able to go out and learn ASL and go to college and move on from there. I truly never knew about ASL until about 6-8 years ago. By then, I was married and had 2 children in the house. There was no time for me to go to school much less the money to do so. Because I am still verbal and have mostly perfect speech, the general public does not believe that I am deaf. I can't whip out a hearing aid to show them. I don't have a CI to prove the issue, they only have me at my word, and in my community, people are too much into the "ME" status, that they could care less about anybody else and therefore, they should not have to deal with it. No they don't have to deal with it like I do, but they should be more aware and not make a person "prove" their deafness or whatever. It's like the constant case of people who have handicapped parking when they look like nothing could be wrong with them at all. Should they have to prove to the other person in a wheelchair they they have a right to the handicapped spot? No. the proof was already satisfied when they were approved to get that hanging placard or license plate to allow them to park there.

**Beowulf** · 08-17-2010, 01:42 PM

I talked with an interpreter today, and she said she noticed that among CI users, quite a few were disappointed the devices didn't live up to their expectations. Makes you think, eh?

**KristinaB** · 08-17-2010, 01:43 PM

Sorry I am on a soapbox today, but I felt these things needed to be said.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Sorry I am on a soapbox today, but I felt these things needed to be said.

Pls dont apologize...you understand because you are deaf and know where I am coming from.

Frisky Feline · 08-17-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Sorry I am on a soapbox today, but I felt these things needed to be said.

don't be. I am pretty sure that out there who have the same feeling or how you have been through this life. Therefore things needed to be said by your words but same experiences to most of us.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

Nobody is saying (that I know of) that you messed up with your child. Yes, you did right, by your beliefs, for her and she may well thank you in the end. But, there are a lot of us, who didn't have that choice when we were younger or little. There are also some of us, Shel and myself anyway, that were not given any opportunity to learn ASL or anything other than being given our HA's. I think, it's people like that that have a harder time. Shel and others were lucky in the fact that they were able to go out and learn ASL and go to college and move on from there. I truly never knew about ASL until about 6-8 years ago. By then, I was married and had 2 children in the house. There was no time for me to go to school much less the money to do so. Because I am still verbal and have mostly perfect speech, the general public does not believe that I am deaf. I can't whip out a hearing aid to show them. I don't have a CI to prove the issue, they only have me at my word, and in my community, people are too much into the "ME" status, that they could care less about anybody else and therefore, they should not have to deal with it. No they don't have to deal with it like I do, but they should be more aware and not make a person "prove" their deafness or whatever. It's like the constant case of people who have handicapped parking when they look like nothing could be wrong with them at all. Should they have to prove to the other person in a wheelchair they they have a right to the handicapped spot? No. the proof was already satisfied when they were approved to get that hanging placard or license plate to allow them to park there.

Oh, I wanted to add...

Deaf people are very good at adapting to different situations because we grew up having to do that. Most hearing people dont have those skills hence the comment about society being too much of a "me" society. The problem lies with those hearing people..if they would adapt a little to meet our communication needs (no, it DOES not mean learning ASL), then I think things would be much much better.

Frisky Feline · 08-17-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh, I wanted to add...

Deaf people are very good at adapting to different situations because we grew up having to do that. Most hearing people dont have those skills hence the comment about society being too much of a "me" society. The problem lies with those hearing people..if they would adapt a little to meet our communication needs (no, it DOES not mean learning ASL), then I think things would be much much better.

Oh yes. Then it would make everyone feel less awkward and stay alert for better communicative for purposes. I know they can do it as long as they are willing to!

**KristinaB** · 08-17-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh, I wanted to add...

Deaf people are very good at adapting to different situations because we grew up having to do that. Most hearing people dont have those skills hence the comment about society being too much of a "me" society. The problem lies with those hearing people..if they would adapt a little to meet our communication needs (no, it DOES not mean learning ASL), then I think things would be much much better.

You're right. I didn't think of that.

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 03:16 PM

Shel, I know that you are not against a child having oral skills, but there certainly are people who are. I have been told (and so has every parent of a deaf child) on a nearly daily basis that I am an audist, that deaf children should be taken away from hearing parents, that a CI is murdering a deaf child, and on and on. I have been told on this site, that I shouldn't worry about spoken language, that a deaf child doesn't need to hear or speak, that if they have ASL, that is all they need. But then I see threads like this one. In this thread it is repeated again and again that not being able to hear prevents (or at least makes it very difficult) to interact with people EVERY day of your life.

What am I supposed to think? Clearly being unable to hear is an issue that causes problem. So, wouldn't it be in my child's best interest to be able to hear to the best of her ability? But if I say something like that, I become "the hearing person who thinks being hearing is better than being deaf", and that I am "against Deaf people" or that I am "disrespecting the Deaf perspective".

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Oh, I wanted to add...

Deaf people are very good at adapting to different situations because we grew up having to do that. Most hearing people dont have those skills hence the comment about society being too much of a "me" society. The problem lies with those hearing people..if they would adapt a little to meet our communication needs (no, it DOES not mean learning ASL), then I think things would be much much better.

But I noticed from this thread that you are pretending to understand. How is the hearing person supposed to know that they need to adapt if you (the deaf communicator) does not make those needs known? If you pretend that you understand, and nod, they don't know that a change is needed. If you advocate for yourself, and explain, then they have the opportunity to fix the communication barrier.

**KristinaB** · 08-17-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But I noticed from this thread that you are pretending to understand. How is the hearing person supposed to know that they need to adapt if you (the deaf communicator) does not make those needs known? If you pretend that you understand, and nod, they don't know that a change is needed. If you advocate for yourself, and explain, then they have the opportunity to fix the communication barrier.

This thread was about was it right for her or any of us, to feel guilty about having no time to let the person know that she couldn't understand. Was she right to feel guilty for not having explained it to this one person. Are any of us (deaf people) faced with the same type of dilemma? The thread was NOT intended to bash each other's opinions on getting along with the hearing community, or bashing each other about ASL vs Oral vs bibi. It was about the feeling we as deaf people or hob people feel about having to constantly explain ourselves. It was for the deaf and hoh community to help each other out, not for a hearing parent of a deaf child to come in and state that we are wrong for not wishing to explain ourselves EVERY SINGLE TIME.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Shel, I know that you are not against a child having oral skills, but there certainly are people who are. I have been told (and so has every parent of a deaf child) on a nearly daily basis that I am an audist, that deaf children should be taken away from hearing parents, that a CI is murdering a deaf child, and on and on. I have been told on this site, that I shouldn't worry about spoken language, that a deaf child doesn't need to hear or speak, that if they have ASL, that is all they need. But then I see threads like this one. In this thread it is repeated again and again that not being able to hear prevents (or at least makes it very difficult) to interact with people EVERY day of your life.

What am I supposed to think? Clearly being unable to hear is an issue that causes problem. So, wouldn't it be in my child's best interest to be able to hear to the best of her ability? But if I say something like that, I become "the hearing person who thinks being hearing is better than being deaf", and that I am "against Deaf people" or that I am "disrespecting the Deaf perspective".

Again...

"Living life as a hearing person limited me, but living life as a Deaf person freed me."

This thread is about situations that we encounter from time to time not about our daily struggles. Not about CIs.

I cant solve your issues about how people view you.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

This thread was about was it right for her or any of us, to feel guilty about having no time to let the person know that she couldn't understand. Was she right to feel guilty for not having explained it to this one person. Are any of us (deaf people) faced with the same type of dilemma? The thread was NOT intended to bash each other's opinions on getting along with the hearing community, or bashing each other about ASL vs Oral vs bibi. It was about the feeling we as deaf people or hob people feel about having to constantly explain ourselves. It was for the deaf and hoh community to help each other out, not for a hearing parent of a deaf child to come in and state that we are wrong for not wishing to explain ourselves EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Exactly...

posts from hell · 08-17-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But I noticed from this thread that you are pretending to understand. How is the hearing person supposed to know that they need to adapt if you (the deaf communicator) does not make those needs known? If you pretend that you understand, and nod, they don't know that a change is needed. If you advocate for yourself, and explain, then they have the opportunity to fix the communication barrier.

That's why I always sign "I am deaf" to people who I happen get small talked with. They say oh, and mind their own business. Everyones happy.

The thing is that... This concept is "unheard of" - Its not taught. I would say its due to the hearing people who has spent their time educating us thinking that they can't adapt and not telling us to just be ourselves and sign to hearing people.

Hence I feel that they are limited.

And again, some things in life arent what its "suppsoed to be". I see your point, but again, don't forget all the bullshit that happens in life - social norms, culture, ideology has a ton to do with it.

Also, i dont think the point of this thread is about UNDERSTANDING them as much as nicely telling them to gtfo.

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinaB

This thread was about was it right for her or any of us, to feel guilty about having no time to let the person know that she couldn't understand. Was she right to feel guilty for not having explained it to this one person. Are any of us (deaf people) faced with the same type of dilemma? The thread was NOT intended to bash each other's opinions on getting along with the hearing community, or bashing each other about ASL vs Oral vs bibi. It was about the feeling we as deaf people or hob people feel about having to constantly explain ourselves. It was for the deaf and hoh community to help each other out, not for a hearing parent of a deaf child to come in and state that we are wrong for not wishing to explain ourselves EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I'm not talking about oral vs anything.

Shel said that hearing people need to make more effort to communicate. But everyone here says that they nod and pretend to understand. So, how is a hearing person supposed to "make the effort", if they have no idea that you aren't understanding?

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I'm not talking about oral vs anything.

Shel said that hearing people need to make more effort to communicate. But everyone here says that they nod and pretend to understand. So, how is a hearing person supposed to "make the effort", if they have no idea that you aren't understanding?

Because of history...

Got tired of explaining ourselves to them and when running errands or exercising, I dont want to explain my deafness. Especially when I need to focus on shopping, exercising or etc...

Just like what KristinaB said...

posts from hell · 08-17-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I'm not talking about oral vs anything.

Shel said that hearing people need to make more effort to communicate. But everyone here says that they nod and pretend to understand. So, how is a hearing person supposed to "make the effort", if they have no idea that you aren't understanding?

Like I said, the deaf arent educated theirselves in that aspect.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Like I said, the deaf arent educated theirselves in that aspect.

What do you mean?

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Because of history...

Got tired of explaining ourselves to them and when running errands or exercising, I dont want to explain my deafness. Especially when I need to focus on shopping, exercising or etc...

Just like what KristinaB said...

So, explain to be what should change? How would you fix this if you had a magic wand?

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Like I said, the deaf arent educated theirselves in that aspect.

I'm with you. If you can't understand speech, sign (or write) that right from the start. Don't pretend to understand if you don't. You have the right to communicate, don't accept less.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So, explain to be what should change? How would you fix this if you had a magic wand?

So, is it my job to educate every hearing person out there when I am doing my errands or trying to exercise? Is that what you are saying?

posts from hell · 08-17-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What do you mean?

The reason I sign to people 24/7 no matter who it is is because I "discovered" it while teaching ASL to a few people. One asked me why don't the deaf people sign because she works at a gas station and she had a deaf customer that "understood everything she said" and walked off while she was trying to inform him he left his keys. That was when she realized he was deaf.

So I took it upon myself to sign to people to see what results it would generate. It was surprisingly easy, and once you get over the hurdle of "signing to people" because its not in your comfort zone it will be much easier to live. That is how it is for me.

As of now, all the deaf people arent formally educated in that. They only have their social norm, upbringing, etc to go by. I am so grateful I learned to sign to people no matter who it is.

There is now a formal class in Gallaudet, and it's called Deafhood - it will cover this exact discussion, on top of many other issues.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I'm with you. If you can't understand speech, sign (or write) that right from the start. Don't pretend to understand if you don't. You have the right to communicate, don't accept less.

If I was in a social situation, a meeting with a hearing person, or doing business with a hearing person, or something that I go where I know I will have to communicate with a hearing person, that is what I do.

This is about us doing our errands like getting gas, shopping, exercising, or just enjoying a stroll at the park where we dont want to be bothered and hearing strangers start chatting with us and then we have these thoughts in our heads "Oh boy..."" but end up nodding and pretending to understand because we dont want to go through the Q & A due to our history of constantly dealing with that and sometimes getting nowhere.

**shel90** · 08-17-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

The reason I sign to people 24/7 no matter who it is is because I "discovered" it while teaching ASL to a few people. One asked me why don't the deaf people sign because she works at a gas station and she had a deaf customer that "understood everything she said" and walked off while she was trying to inform him he left his keys. That was when she realized he was deaf.

So I took it upon myself to sign to people to see what results it would generate. It was surprisingly easy, and once you get over the hurdle of "signing to people" because its not in your comfort zone it will be much easier to live. That is how it is for me.

As of now, all the deaf people arent formally educated in that. They only have their social norm, upbringing, etc to go by. I am so grateful I learned to sign to people no matter who it is.

There is now a formal class in Gallaudet, and it's called Deafhood - it will cover this exact discussion, on top of many other issues.

Yea, I guess growing up in as a "hearing" person, it is a habit to adapt to meet their hearing ways because that was how I was taught.

**Jiro** · 08-17-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What do you mean?

like.... letting them know that we cannot hear and understand them instead of nodding and pretending to understand.

posts from hell · 08-17-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Yea, I guess growing up in as a "hearing" person, it is a habit to adapt to meet their hearing ways because that was how I was taught.

Well, thats how pretty much every single deaf person are taught.
I discovered it myself in my 20s.. Sad, eh.

Everyone should learn to be theirselves, hearing or deaf.

faire_jour · 08-17-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

So, is it my job to educate every hearing person out there when I am doing my errands or trying to exercise? Is that what you are saying?

No, I'm asking what you would do to change it. That is what I said.

Frisky Feline · 08-17-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

No, I'm asking what you would do to change it. That is what I said.

what do you mean by that?

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08-17-2010, 01:42 PM	#184 (permalink)
Beowulf Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 10,514	I talked with an interpreter today, and she said she noticed that among CI users, quite a few were disappointed the devices didn't live up to their expectations. Makes you think, eh?

08-17-2010, 01:43 PM	#185 (permalink)
KristinaB New SDIT Deacon Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Land of the backstroke Posts: 13,767	Sorry I am on a soapbox today, but I felt these things needed to be said.

08-17-2010, 03:16 PM	#191 (permalink)
faire_jour Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,202	Shel, I know that you are not against a child having oral skills, but there certainly are people who are. I have been told (and so has every parent of a deaf child) on a nearly daily basis that I am an audist, that deaf children should be taken away from hearing parents, that a CI is murdering a deaf child, and on and on. I have been told on this site, that I shouldn't worry about spoken language, that a deaf child doesn't need to hear or speak, that if they have ASL, that is all they need. But then I see threads like this one. In this thread it is repeated again and again that not being able to hear prevents (or at least makes it very difficult) to interact with people EVERY day of your life. What am I supposed to think? Clearly being unable to hear is an issue that causes problem. So, wouldn't it be in my child's best interest to be able to hear to the best of her ability? But if I say something like that, I become "the hearing person who thinks being hearing is better than being deaf", and that I am "against Deaf people" or that I am "disrespecting the Deaf perspective".