Snubbing the Deaf community?

[shel90]

The other day, I was talking to my friend and she told me meeting this girl who is deaf but didnt know sign language. My friend told her about the Deaf community and ASL and the girl told her that she already knew about it but wasnt interested. She told my friend that she doesnt need the Deaf community and is not interested in meeting members of the Deaf community. Now, my question is...why say something like that? To me, this person and whoever else says that are snubbing the Deaf community for no reason. There are many of us who are part of it who want to be considered as equal humans so when people say stuff like that, they are looking down on us and basically saying that we arent worthy enough of their time.

I know I have my issues with the hearing world but I would never say "I dont need the hearing world and not interested in meeting any members of the hearing community." If I did, I would have missed out on great friendships with many hearing people, my hubby for one.

What do you think?

[sallylou]

I think that this person lacks social skills. She could have declined the invitation in a diplomatic way without insulting anyone.

[Buffalo]

She might not feel comfortable among the deaf people since she didn't know any sign language.

[Bebonang]

Originally Posted by Buffalo

She might not feel comfortable among the deaf people since she didn't know any sign language.

Bingo!!!!!

[Bottesini]

She might have felt like the person thought she was inferior. It might be like when someone says they don't like one small part of what the Deaf community does, and the other person fires back quickly, " Well if you don't like it you don't have to hang out with us."

Unfortunately the Deaf community has kind of a bad rap for a few bad apples who act that way.

[CJB]

It's also possible she just doesn't have any interest in Deaf culture, at least not in this point of her life.

[rockin'robin]

I socialize with both hearies and deafies. I've met a lot of deafies who have said "I don't want deafies to know where I live, my VP #, etc."...When I asked "Why?"...They said because deafies cause too much drama & back-stabbing & gossip....

Some deafies are suspicious too...

I don't know if this would be called "snubbing", some people are more social than others.

[nope]

And it's also possible (since we have alot of theories already ) that the person invited her in a way she perceived as offensive and so she got defensive. Maybe the person made it sound like no deaf person could possibly function and be happy without involvement int he Deaf Community, that she was somehow less for not being involved. I'm sure that probably wasn't their intention, but its possible she heard that. And maybe what she thinks she heard made her defensive and assert that she doesn't need it to be complete and happy.

[Buffalo]

Another theory... she could be thinking that hearing is better than deaf so she don't want to hang out with other deaf people, prefering to think of herself as a "hearing".

[omegaman]

I wonder if she is late deafened?

[Passionate4ASL]

One day an oral deaf lady with CI came into my work and my co-worker got all excited and said "she(pointing at me) knows sign language!". My co-workers get so gitty to see me signing when I get the chance. Anyway, the lady was like "so?, I don't use that!!". We got to talking and I learned she was raised strictly oral method. Her parents never approved of using sign or meeting the Deaf community, they viewed it as a 'diability' and it seemed she had adopted the same attitude. I think children learn what they are taught, what they are taught becomes believes and they grow up to follow their believes. That was my impression of what happen in my situation, but I wonder if it could be similar to Shel's experience??

[web730]

We learned there are 18,000 deaf students attending hearing/oral schools while only 9000 deaf students attend deaf residential schools in the USA nowadays. That is about 66% deaf student population attending hearing, mainstream, and oral schools so assume some numbers, not all of them, would be mere like her. That woman might not be a student but already out of school, I assume but lot of them out there are quite like her that we have seen or heard. I think it's rather sad but what can we do?

[overthepond]

Unfortunately I had experinced the deaf community rejecting me for being too oral (even I can sign but I rely on lipreading not full BSL), since then I tried to be part of the community but sadly over few years i stopped going. The said person in OP may had encounter this experince.
After I was implanted I became more intergated into the community where there is many CI users, they are deaf, sign/speaks and lipreads.
I am now a TA at deaf school I remind them that Oral deafs, Signing deafs, Late deafen HA,CI, BAHA users etc all have same thing in common.... They are deaf and will need each other so they need to be more open minded and help each other regardless their experince.

[CJB]

Originally Posted by omegaman

I wonder if she is late deafened?

Definitely possible. I know as late-deafened HOH, it took me a while to adjust to identifying myself as HOH and not hearing. I imagine there are people that never really make the adjustment from identifying as hearing to identifying as Deaf/HOH.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by CJB

It's also possible she just doesn't have any interest in Deaf culture, at least not in this point of her life.

My point is that we are all people..let's say that all hearing people say that they arent interested in the Deaf community and dont want to meet us so that would mean several of us would be rejected as a group instead of as individuals. We arent of one personality, u know? It just got me thinking because I have heard of that phrase several times but never thought much into it until now. Then, I was like, "Wait a min...why reject all of us as a whole group?" If someone has a bad experience with the Deaf community because of a few people, reject THOSE people, not the rest of us because I for one, have no responsibility for those people who caused problems. Like people who refuse to befriend black people simply because of their color not because of personality clashes. It just makes me really sad because I work with Deaf children so these children are basically being rejected by society by no fault of their own. A big shame.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Buffalo

She might not feel comfortable among the deaf people since she didn't know any sign language.

I was thinking the same, that may be the reason.

I know one of my deaf friends had turned his back on the hearing society, he had chosen not to become a part of the hearing society by he refusing to get a job working with hearing people, he refused to use his speaking skills. He claimed that lip-reading and speech is tiring and he doesn't like to do such unnatural things so he would rather to be surrounded by deaf people because they share the same visual language.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Buffalo

She might not feel comfortable among the deaf people since she didn't know any sign language.

My friend told me that she complains about being left out all the time, not understanding what people are saying most of the time and so on. That was why my friend told her about the Deaf community and ASL. My friend thinks it is not because she is uncomfortable..she thinks she is not interested and doesnt need "us".

I have heard of that comment again and again from both deaf and hearing people so I just got to thinking...is that snubbing us and is that seeing us as a whole group rather than as individuals? Also, what angers me is those parents who say that their deaf children dont need the Deaf community or dont need to meet other deaf children. For God's sake..these are people with feelings!

[omegaman]

I think if she spent most of her life around hearing people, then I can understand why she may feel that she doesn't need to learn ASL or be part of the deaf community. But, I wonder if her attitude would change if she visited this forum?

[jillio]

I'm thinking she is repeating what she has been taught. If she has never had contact with the Deaf Community, she has no idea whether it would be beneficial for her or not. I'd say she has probably been taught that the hearing world offers "more opportunities", etc. and that to be a "normal person" she has to act as much like a hearing person as possible. That is the message audism gives to people, deaf and hearing alike.

[violet]

I think it happens daily with people who don't want to see reality. for example me as a mexican.. theres plenty of people who are mexican (or their family may be maybe their parents are Mexican) but they don't admit to people they're mexican or simply just deny it.. they want nothing to do with that race and so on and so forth. some people deny they speak spanish. It angers me. Because they bring up many issues in our culture.

Why they do it I dont know. maybe they see all the negativity..and not see the postive in who we are..
same with the deaf. .maybe when they think of themselves as deaf they think.. Oh i have a "disability" (thinking like the hearing world) and they may also think oh well I can "be normal" if I stay in the hearing world and associate with the hearing world and have nothing to do with the deaf"

could be various ideas.

[rockin'robin]

Originally Posted by overthepond

Unfortunately I had experinced the deaf community rejecting me for being too oral (even I can sign but I rely on lipreading not full BSL), since then I tried to be part of the community but sadly over few years i stopped going. The said person in OP may had encounter this experince.
After I was implanted I became more intergated into the community where there is many CI users, they are deaf, sign/speaks and lipreads.
I am now a TA at deaf school I remind them that Oral deafs, Signing deafs, Late deafen HA,CI, BAHA users etc all have same thing in common.... They are deaf and will need each other so they need to be more open minded and help each other regardless their experince.

You're so right! I've been rejected many times also, deafies thinking I'm hearing, because I lip read and my speech is still intact, even tho' I've been deaf many, many years! I'm not a fluent signer, and I'm not a fluent speaker. Those of us who are late-deafened suffer consequences too. Depression for a very long time, and when I found the Deaf Forums, I was so happy!

[Daredevel7]

It's also possible that they don't want to be lumped as part of a group. For example, my mom is proud of being a Cuban, but does not go around announcing that she is Cuban. One reason is because there are 'loud and proud' Cubans in Miami who are percieved to be low class. Not because they are proud but because of their attitudes and behavior. She does not want to be associated with them.

[violet]

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

It's also possible that they don't want to be lumped as part of a group. For example, my mom is proud of being a Cuban, but does not go around announcing that she is Cuban. One reason is because there are 'loud and proud' Cubans in Miami who are percieved to be low class. Not because they are proud but because of their attitudes and behavior. She does not want to be associated with them.

Yea.. same thing happens with mexicans.. I think it happens with any race.. religion or anything that makes you "different' in some way.

[nope]

I don't know - I guess I can see both sides. On one hand, it does seem like maybe she's lumping the Deaf Community together and doesn't want to be associated with them for whatever reason. On the other hand, it is her choice and I don't think it's fair to judge her decision without knowing her reasons. Maybe she really was rejected by the Deaf when she was younger. Could you really blame her for not desiring a repeat performance? Obviously, not all Deaf people are going to treat her the same way, but it's hard to ignore past experiences like that.
And there will always be people who are part of a group who don't necessarily identify with that group. My family is Irish, I grew up in Ireland, I speak Irish, but I'm not 'Irish enough' for a lot of Irish Americans. I think ethnic groups get that alot. You aren't hispanic enough, you aren't Indian enough, you aren't African enough. There will always be people who don't accept you because you aren't hardcore enough. I got the same thing when I was vegetarian from the vegans. Maybe she's been treated as if she's not Deaf enough.
I don't necessarily think she's entirely to blame for her attitudes without knowing her history. Who here can't identify with being treated poorly by a group? It's up to us to look past the experience and understand that not everyone will treat us the same way, but depending upon the extent of the negative experience, that might not always be possible.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by violet

I think it happens daily with people who don't want to see reality. for example me as a mexican.. theres plenty of people who are mexican (or their family may be maybe their parents are Mexican) but they don't admit to people they're mexican or simply just deny it.. they want nothing to do with that race and so on and so forth. some people deny they speak spanish. It angers me. Because they bring up many issues in our culture.

Why they do it I dont know. maybe they see all the negativity..and not see the postive in who we are..
same with the deaf. .maybe when they think of themselves as deaf they think.. Oh i have a "disability" (thinking like the hearing world) and they may also think oh well I can "be normal" if I stay in the hearing world and associate with the hearing world and have nothing to do with the deaf"

could be various ideas.

I think you hit the nail on the head, violet. Anytime one denies their true self, it is because they see their true self as being inferior to the majority, and they don't want to see themselves that way, nor do they want others to see them that way. But they have to be taught the concept of deaf is not as good as hearing, or Mexican is not as good as Causcasion, or English is better than sign or Spanish. If they were taught that concept, they can also unlearn it and discover how to take pride in their true self.

[buttkisses]

Why does everyone that is deaf have to fit into a nice little hole that you all can plug? What if this person is just happy with the way their life is? Is it just possible that OMG they really don't need to fit into any group? Just because they are deaf? Maybe they have learned to accept their way of life and are happy with it. Perhaps the real upset here is the The Deaf community is being rejected and holy crap that just cannot be!! Not by one of your own!! You all have the mentality that you MUST intervene because OMG they are deaf and they must be enlightened, their lives would be so much better if they were. Well what if they just happen to love their life the way it is, gasp, without the deaf culture and community? You all analyze so much and determine so much. According to most of you, there is just no way a deaf person can be happy without deaf culture. You use terms like Deaf, and deaf, and hearies and you want to put everyone in this nice neat little category and if some one doesn't fit, you make them fit with assumptions and a new category. God forbid any one deaf person should ever live a happy fulfilled life as a deaf person that does not fit into your nice neat little acronyms. I am willing to bet 85% of the hearing world doesn't even know there is a deaf culture and I am sure there is a percentage of deaf that don't either. I am willing to bet that at least 75% of them don't even give it merit. All they want is to cure it. Finding a cure for other disabilities is NORMAL! They would rather cure it than continue to listen to all of the "deafies" bitch about the great lengths man kind has gone through to make the hearing world more accessible to you. It is never enough, and holy crap when we do come up with something close such as an implant you all scream leave us DEAF! Is it so hard to believe that maybe a few of your own have actually become disgusted with you that they now don't want anything to do with you? Your deaf culture is a bottomless pit in a world that has much more pressing matters at hand, and perhaps, just perhaps this deaf person is not snubbing the deaf culture but rising above it. Blast away.

[kokonut]

Originally Posted by nope

I don't know - I guess I can see both sides. On one hand, it does seem like maybe she's lumping the Deaf Community together and doesn't want to be associated with them for whatever reason. On the other hand, it is her choice and I don't think it's fair to judge her decision without knowing her reasons. Maybe she really was rejected by the Deaf when she was younger. Could you really blame her for not desiring a repeat performance? Obviously, not all Deaf people are going to treat her the same way, but it's hard to ignore past experiences like that.
And there will always be people who are part of a group who don't necessarily identify with that group. My family is Irish, I grew up in Ireland, I speak Irish, but I'm not 'Irish enough' for a lot of Irish Americans. I think ethnic groups get that alot. You aren't hispanic enough, you aren't Indian enough, you aren't African enough. There will always be people who don't accept you because you aren't hardcore enough. I got the same thing when I was vegetarian from the vegans. Maybe she's been treated as if she's not Deaf enough.
I don't necessarily think she's entirely to blame for her attitudes without knowing her history. Who here can't identify with being treated poorly by a group? It's up to us to look past the experience and understand that not everyone will treat us the same way, but depending upon the extent of the negative experience, that might not always be possible.

Agree. There's not enough info to even make an appropriate determination. Not going to lose sleep over that though the girl has her reasons. Rather than get all huffy and indignant over from a second hand source I'd say get the real story first. And even if it's true I'd keep that emotion in check for the time being.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by buttkisses

Why does everyone that is deaf have to fit into a nice little hole that you all can plug? What if this person is just happy with the way their life is? Is it just possible that OMG they really don't need to fit into any group? Just because they are deaf? Maybe they have learned to accept their way of life and are happy with it. Perhaps the real upset here is the The Deaf community is being rejected and holy crap that just cannot be!! Not by one of your own!! You all have the mentality that you MUST intervene because OMG they are deaf and they must be enlightened, their lives would be so much better if they were. Well what if they just happen to love their life the way it is, gasp, without the deaf culture and community? You all analyze so much and determine so much. According to most of you, there is just no way a deaf person can be happy without deaf culture. You use terms like Deaf, and deaf, and hearies and you want to put everyone in this nice neat little category and if some one doesn't fit, you make them fit with assumptions and a new category. God forbid any one deaf person should ever live a happy fulfilled life as a deaf person that does not fit into your nice neat little acronyms. I am willing to bet 85% of the hearing world doesn't even know there is a deaf culture and I am sure there is a percentage of deaf that don't either. I am willing to bet that at least 75% of them don't even give it merit. All they want is to cure it. Finding a cure for other disabilities is NORMAL! They would rather cure it than continue to listen to all of the "deafies" bitch about the great lengths man kind has gone through to make the hearing world more accessible to you. It is never enough, and holy crap when we do come up with something close such as an implant you all scream leave us DEAF! Is it so hard to believe that maybe a few of your own have actually become disgusted with you that they now don't want anything to do with you? Your deaf culture is a bottomless pit in a world that has much more pressing matters at hand, and perhaps, just perhaps this deaf person is not snubbing the deaf culture but rising above it. Blast away.

To answer your first question:

It is innate in human nature to seek out an in-group. People are, by nature, social creatures. They will always seek out membership in groups that reinforce their values and beliefs.

Finding a cure for disabilities is not normal. Positive self esteem, and well adjusted attitude toward self is normal. Belief that one is inferior simply because one is different is not normal. It is a self destructive pattern of thought.

[buttkisses]

Originally Posted by jillio

To answer your first question:

It is innate in human nature to seek out an in-group. People are, by nature, social creatures. They will always seek out membership in groups that reinforce their values and beliefs.

Finding a cure for disabilities is not normal. Positive self esteem, and well adjusted attitude toward self is normal. Belief that one is inferior simply because one is different is not normal. It is a self destructive pattern of thought.

I see, so the only way they can be "normal" is if they seek out "like individuals" So because she is deaf she must seek out deaf individuals to be normal. If she "snubs" them she is just rejecting her disability and out of touch with who she is.

You are right, in the "animal world" and we are a part of that, seeking out cures is not normal, usually they just get left behind, but because we are human and have evolved we have feelings, those urges to find a cure are based solely out of selfish need for our future generations to go on living in a world that is unacessable like today's world is for the deaf. Oh please. There is no way to have a high self esteem, just because you are different, yet for many having a high self esteem is based on the fact that they see themselves differently from the average person. Seeing yourself as inferior has to do with the mind not your physical form. If there were a cure for deafness tomorrow many would turn it down in the Deaf culture for the sake of the culture, and that is a twisted way of thinking when it comes to the rest of the worlds view. Just as "Deaf Power and Deaf Pride" are. You say self esteem?? where is the self esteem when you hear those terms?? Isn't it pride in a culture?? God forbid a Deaf person has self esteem and self pride and the deaf culture is not involved, because then you are just snubbing a culture, IE: The Deaf proud and abnormal because you don't accept your deafness like the "normal deaf person does" Get real.

[Banjo]

Some people are simply insecure and in denial.