Snubbing the Deaf community?

[souggy]

I see more people snubbing the Deaf community than the other way around.... so I disagree with Cheri and kokonut.

It's simple-- don't brag about your speaking ability, and you will be fine, but a lot of people seems to forget about this.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

ha ha it brought my memory back. During my college year, one guy who transferred from RIT to gally. When the teacher asked him to asnwer the question during the classsroom. He simply speak without signing. I had to ask him to sign it. He gave me a dirty face and then he signed it for my sake. We didn't get along well for the whole semester. In a few years later, we become friends that he signs religiously all the way.

He finally got the message! Unforunately, some never do, and continue to blame the Deaf Community for the fact that their own attitude needs adjusted.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by jillio

Perhaps you should go back and check several of the instances you have posted about. It is clear that attitude, and not signing ability was the problem, and numerous Deaf have attempted to inform you of that. It appears that continues to be the problem.

Yep, it's usually the attitude that is the problem.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by souggy

I see more people snubbing the Deaf community than the other way around.... so I disagree with Cheri and kokonut.

It's simple-- don't brag about your speaking ability, and you will be fine, but a lot of people seems to forget about this.

Who's bragging about their speaking abilities? If a person who's deaf want to speak and sign, they have that right to speak and sign the same time, who is it to say that they cannot speak and sign the same time? The sign language used by the Deaf Community is not universal. Sign language exists in different forms. Even signing individuals do not necessarily use the same signs as other deaf people.

I've seen some oral people had rejected the Deaf Community but I sure did not see any oral person walks their way in the Community and demand that deaf people should speak orally. Have you?

[souggy]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I've seen some oral people had rejected the Deaf Community but I sure did not see any oral person walks their way in the Community and demand that deaf people should speak orally. Have you?

Yes, especially if they know i can talk. I am always tempted to speak French when they demand me to speak.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Cheri

Who's bragging about their speaking abilities?

You'll be surprised.

I've seen some oral people had rejected the Deaf Community but I sure did not see any oral person walks their way in the Community and demand that deaf people should speak orally. Have you?

I've seen it happen in front of my eyes on quite a few occasions.

[Cheri]

Well, I sure haven't seen anyone bragging about their speaking abilities only that they're glad that they learned how to speak. So what? It's the same as how a deaf person say they can hear better with cochlear implant than they did with hearing aids. Again so what. Why does it bother you guys?

[souggy]

It's not the learning hwo to speak or having a CI that bothers me. It's how people treat each others.

[Frisky Feline]

Originally Posted by souggy

It's not the learning hwo to speak or having a CI that bothers me. It's how people treat each others.

exaclty. when i first met three people and chatted for like three hours later. i learned that they have CIs. They did not even try to show off how great they hear the musics in front of me.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by souggy

Yes, especially if they know i can talk. I am always tempted to speak French when they demand me to speak.

A lot of deaf people knows that I can talk, they had never asked me to communicate orally with them without the use of signs. If they did, I'll tell them off, the same way I'll tell a deaf person off who says that I cannot sign and speak the same time. I don't tell any deaf person how they should communicate, I expect the same respect in return.

[souggy]

RIght. I was offended by the guy I met at the bookstore who was grateful to have a CI to learn so many different languages without having to rely on ASL. Why?

I had to learn how to speak English, and French without my hearing aids (I am severe-to-profound deaf by the way.) Plus I managed to pick up Japanese (something I won't confess to learning publicly) and Plautdietsch along the way. Ontop of that I also know ASL and SEE..

So to snub the Deaf community's ASL in favour of spoken languages offend those that are multilingual or has went through extensive speech therapies. It makes us go: "why the hell did we even bother learning how to speak if CI is so wonderful?"

[rockin'robin]

Whenever I speak, I sign at the same time when conversing with deafies....Late deafned. Or just a habit...Of course, hearies treat me different, and most times I'm glad they do, because if they just talked without looking directly at me and slowing down, I would not understand. A lot of uneducated hearies don't know how to converse with deafies....but the fact that they "do try" is great with me!

I've had many deafies say..."she's hearing, right?"....Or she's HOH?....and turn their heads. I've gotten "snubbed" many times from full deafies. And with hearies also.....

I've helped a lot of full deafies in my time...and hearies too. Still, I get "snubbed" by both of them at times. It's a hard pill to swallow, it hurts, doesn't it? We cannot expect hearies to learn sign language all the time, as hearies should not expect all deaies to speak clearly. It's like a Spanish person speaking to an English person, we can't demand they learn/know our language. All I can do, is to try, try again! Attitude is important too.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Cheri

A lot of deaf people knows that I can talk, they had never asked me to communicate orally with them without the use of signs. If they did, I'll tell them off, the same way I'll tell a deaf person off who says that I cannot sign and speak the same time. I don't tell any deaf person how they should communicate, I expect the same respect in return.

Sometimes, they may suggest that you not speak and sign at the same time because it can be distracting. It's different for everyone.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Cheri

A lot of deaf people knows that I can talk, they had never asked me to communicate orally with them without the use of signs. If they did, I'll tell them off, the same way I'll tell a deaf person off who says that I cannot sign and speak the same time. I don't tell any deaf person how they should communicate, I expect the same respect in return.

The very fact that you are sim-comming is a violation of Deaf Culture norms.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by rockin'robin

Whenever I speak, I sign at the same time when conversing with deafies....Late deafned. Or just a habit...Of course, hearies treat me different, and most times I'm glad they do, because if they just talked without looking directly at me and slowing down, I would not understand. A lot of uneducated hearies don't know how to converse with deafies....but the fact that they "do try" is great with me!

I've had many deafies say..."she's hearing, right?"....Or she's HOH?....and turn their heads. I've gotten "snubbed" many times from full deafies. And with hearies also.....

I've helped a lot of full deafies in my time...and hearies too. Still, I get "snubbed" by both of them at times. It's a hard pill to swallow, it hurts, doesn't it? We cannot expect hearies to learn sign language all the time, as hearies should not expect all deaies to speak clearly. It's like a Spanish person speaking to an English person, we can't demand they learn/know our language. All I can do, is to try, try again! Attitude is important too.

If you are being snubbed by both groups, perhaps it is not the groups that is the issue.

[souggy]

Originally Posted by Banjo

Sometimes, they may suggest that you not speak and sign at the same time because it can be distracting. It's different for everyone.

Seconded, I often go into the Deaf community without my hearing aid. I ask people to sign only because when they speak since I only get half of the conversation when they speak because when they do, they leave out the verbs while they are signing.

"What? Dog house milk car?"

Of course, then they accuse me of not pulling the same standard on interpreters... Excuuuuuuuuse me... interpreters are already trained to speak AND sign without leaving out the verbs and classifiers when interacting with the deaf. There's a difference between being trained professionally... and actually trying to do it on your own.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by jillio

The very fact that you are sim-comming is a violation of Deaf Culture norms.

If so then why do deaf people need interpreters? All my interpreters had mouth their words as they sign. I had never had an interpreter that kept their mouth closes as they sign.

[souggy]

Are they mouthing or they are speaking?

If they are mouthing, that's common in the Deaf culture. It's called mouth morphemes.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Cheri

If so then why do deaf people need interpreters? All my interpreters had mouth their words as they sign. I had never had an interpreter that kept their mouth closes as they sign.

Your interpreters might because you are TC, and you sign and speak at the same time. Watch an ASL based interpreter. They use mouth morphemes related to ASL. They do not mouth words in English order as they sign ASL.

ASL is the language of Deaf Culture. Not sim-com, and not MCEs. Those are hearing inventions.

[Frisky Feline]

Originally Posted by souggy

Are they mouthing or they are speaking?

If they are mouthing, that's common in the Deaf culture. It's called mouth morphemes.

For me, I prefer ASL and mouth morphemes.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by jillio

Your interpreters might because you are TC, and you sign and speak at the same time. Watch an ASL based interpreter. They use mouth morphemes related to ASL. They do not mouth words in English order as they sign ASL.

I was not only talking about interpreters at my school, I was talking about interpreters in general. They intend to mouth words (without voice) while signing.

[Banjo]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I was not only talking about interpreters at my school, I was talking about interpreters in general. They intend to mouth words (without voice) while signing.

That's mouth morphemes.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I was not only talking about interpreters at my school, I was talking about interpreters in general. They intend to mouth words (without voice) while signing.

ASL terps do not mouth words. They mouth ASL morphemes.

[souggy]

Mouth morphemes.

YouTube - Mouth Morphemes

YouTube - Mouth Morphemes

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by souggy

Are they mouthing or they are speaking?

If they are mouthing, that's common in the Deaf culture. It's called mouth morphemes.

Yeah mouthing (without voice), is that the word? Thanks, I learned something new today!

[jillio]

Excellent video, souggy. And I think it is important to point out that morphemes like the FSH morpheme used in "finish" very closely resembles the mouth movement made in saying the word "finish". Someone who relies very heavily on speech reading and English word order could easily mistake the morpheme for an actual word. However, that in no way implies that words are being mouthed in ASL.

[souggy]

Same with "big" "large" "tall" and so on being associated with CHA. They appears the same on the lips.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by souggy

Same with "big" "large" "tall" and so on being associated with CHA. They appears the same on the lips.

Yes. I noticed that as well. But they are still morphemes.

[souggy]

Originally Posted by jillio

Yes. I noticed that as well. But they are still morphemes.

Yeah. I know.

I was just keeping "100 most common used words in the English language" in mind, and see how a person who use sim-com or was raised orally could mix the two up.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by souggy

Yeah. I know.

I was just keeping "100 most common used words in the English language" in mind, and see how a person who use sim-com or was raised orally could mix the two up.

Oh, yeah. It is understandable that someone not familiar with ASL, and coming from a sim-com environment would confuse them.