What does "audism" mean to the deaf community?

[souggy]

Originally Posted by jazzy

I am sick of this word Audism, Audism Audism from D people who called d people audism. It is alike they are obessed with this word and put label on anyone who somewhat different from D culturalists. D cultralists need to grow up .

Woooooooooooooha.

Maybe try looking at their actions first?

I remember meeting a CI implantee at a bookstore. He found out I was Deaf, so he said to me verbally (supported with really rusty ASL):

"Hey, you're deaf? I used to be deaf. I got a cochlear implant *points to black unit behind his head that I didn't notice* Now everything is so much better and I can learn Russian, Japanese, French, German, Chinese and English! I learned a bit of ASL before the surgery like *gestures the word "THANK,"* but it wasn't good enough-- English is so much better."

That was my first deaf contact in Victoria when i first moved here, and I was PISSED at that and busted his bubbles by saying: "Can you follow group conversations?" (or something similar.) Right there and then he started to get a bit teary-eyed.

I am not making this up. I am still mad about this incident and that was eight or seven months ago. Thank god I met a CODA on St. Paddy Day before meeting him, or otherwise I would be quick to mislabel my current city of residence based on the cashier's response to my deafness.

So yeah, he's deaf, but some of the stuff "deaf" people say are offensive and reeks of audism.

[rockdrummer]

Originally Posted by Tousi

RD, can you expand on what you mean? I find that deaf on deaf friction to not be healthy for the population. They even coined a name for it to distinquish the attitude being sent by hearing people: Dysconscious audism. But if you are meaning from deaf to hearing, it wouldn't fit the current "sentiment/definition".

Sure Tousi. What I a talking about is when deaf people don't accept other deaf people becuase of how they have chosen (or not chosen) to assimilate. Example; D/deaf is not accepting and casts judjement on other deaf person because they have a CI or are oral. Another example is a deaf person that can talk and uses a CI thinks they are better that other deafs that don't. Audism is not just from hearing people to deaf people. It's also from deaf to hearing and deaf to deaf which is included in the definition by Tom Humphries.

[Tousi]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

Sure Tousi. What I a talking about is when deaf people don't accept other deaf people becuase of how they have chosen (or not chosen) to assimilate. Example; D/deaf is not accepting and casts judjement on other deaf person because they have a CI or are oral. Another example is a deaf person that can talk and uses a CI thinks they are better that other deafs that don't. Audism is not just from hearing people to deaf people. It's also from deaf to hearing and deaf to deaf and is included in the definition by Tom Humphries.

Ok, RD, then you mean dysconscious audism. Frankly, I say this stuff from within is unhealthy. As a society, we have enough problems with the world at large without having to resort to this kind of stuff. To continue down this path, it will be nigh onto impossible to generate any kind of political influence.Thank you for the clarification.

[rockdrummer]

Originally Posted by Tousi

Ok, RD, then you mean dysconscious audism. Frankly, I say this stuff from within is unhealthy. As a society, we have enough problems with the world at large without having to resort to this kind of stuff. To continue down this path, it will be nigh onto impossible to generate any kind of political influence.Thank you for the clarification.

This is the first time I have heard the word dysconscious so I did some checking and below is what I found. It's an Interesting perspective but I don't think it's what I mean when I refer to a deaf audist. Let me give that some thought. Being a hearing person I am certianly not an expert on the topic nor do I experience it so I may be looking at it from the wrong angle.

Source: Watch Out For Being Labelled Dysconscious - antimisandry.com
Watch Out For Being Labelled Dysconscious
There's a new buzzword currently incubating in academia. It's called Dysconsciousness. It's already being applied to racism. It is even being tied to the "oppression" of the Deaf by the hearing ... "audism

Source: Random Thoughts and Musings by moi: Dysconscious audism
My new favorite phrase - dysconscious audism. Dysconscious audism is basically defined as audism (a belief and attitude that to be deaf is to be inferior to hearing people) perpetrated by members of the Deaf community because they have internalized attitudes that the hearing way is superior due to the systemic and pervasive oppression all around us................................................ ..................................
..........................................The main thrust of the entire presentation was that because we have internalized audism to varying degrees and we express it, we are a weaker community. Dysconscious audism divides us and makes it extraordinarily difficult for us to unify behind anything. She's hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what happened with a recent situation. Hearing people supported us. It was Deaf people who were divided. Some said, "You're rejecting hearing people and that's not right." Other gems I heard included "It shouldn't matter," "You're too extreme," and more. One deaf person even gave me the most disgusted look, complete with eye rolls and pointedly looking away when I brought it up. Name almost any Deaf-related issue, and you'll find that we are a very divided community, due to reasons like needing to learn about hearing norms, we need balance, we shouldn't discriminate, we shouldn't oppress hearing people, and we need to face reality. Why is it so hard to get us united behind the concept that we are whole, wonderful individuals exactly the way we are and we have every right to demand respect as individuals and as experts in what our kind needs? Dysconscious audism is why, and that's scary.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

This is the first time I have heard the word dysconscious so I did some checking and below is what I found. It's an Interesting perspective but I don't think it's what I mean when I refer to a deaf audist. Let me give that some thought. Being a hearing person I am certianly not an expert on the topic nor do I experience it so I may be looking at it from the wrong angle.

I think this problem stems from deaf people's bad experiences with growing up so oppressed by hearing people that if they meet other deaf people who are accepting of hearing ways, their defense mechanisms automatically go in full force denying these deaf people who live their lives the hearing way. Just my 2 cents.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Tousi

Ok, RD, then you mean dysconscious audism. Frankly, I say this stuff from within is unhealthy. As a society, we have enough problems with the world at large without having to resort to this kind of stuff. To continue down this path, it will be nigh onto impossible to generate any kind of political influence.Thank you for the clarification.

I think the only way to solve this problem is the end of oppression of deaf people by most hearing people especially as children. It just leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. I experienced it myself before. I wont put down other deaf people for wanting to live the hearing way of life BUT I will put down hearing or deaf people who express opinions that deaf people are better off living the hearing experience. I wont tolerate that view.

[rockdrummer]

Originally Posted by shel90

I think the only way to solve this problem is the end of oppression of deaf people by most hearing people especially as children. It just leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. I experienced it myself before. I wont put down other deaf people for wanting to live the hearing way of life BUT I will put down hearing or deaf people who express opinions that deaf people are better off living the hearing experience. I wont tolerate that view.

How exactly would you go about ending oppression?

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

Sure Tousi. What I a talking about is when deaf people don't accept other deaf people becuase of how they have chosen (or not chosen) to assimilate. Example; D/deaf is not accepting and casts judjement on other deaf person because they have a CI or are oral. Another example is a deaf person that can talk and uses a CI thinks they are better that other deafs that don't. Audism is not just from hearing people to deaf people. It's also from deaf to hearing and deaf to deaf which is included in the definition by Tom Humphries.

Right!

If deaf/capital 'D' want respect then they have to respect people who are oral or use cochlear implants. One must practice what one preaches.. If a deaf choose mainstream education, "You're an audist", if a deaf person choose to go by oral and not signs then "you're an audist", if a deaf person choose to have a cochlear implant then "you're an audist". It seems as though the term has become a way to say that "I don't agree with you and ASL should be the only way for deaf people, not speech, not lip-reading not SEE. " You see what I mean? I see that word "audist" many times when browsing through the board especially during controversial deaf issues.

What about the time at Gallaudet University when King Jordan announced his resignation, and the school provost Jane K. Fernandes would take his place. What happened?, oh yea the students of Gallaudet began rallying against her, because she wasn't deaf enough to hold such an important seat as being the President of Gallaudet. So the group of students were allowed to discriminate against Jane K Fernandes just because she didn't fit the mold of their culture. If you don't like to be discriminated, then don't discriminated anyone like Jane K Fernandes.

We all have differences, nobody is superior, I don't consider myself better than others just because I can speak, lip-read and sign. I do consider myself equal as much as all of you.

Just my two cents.

[souggy]

Re-read the posts.

CIs, SEE, hearing aids, oral deaf all don't make up audism. It is how people write their posts or present themselves as audists. Read their posts again, and you will see that it is poor word choices that make them appear to be audists, intentionally or unintentionally.

I don't have a problem with CI users like deafskeptic, but I do have a problem with CI users like in Post #61.

As for the 2006 protest, I always understood it that it was because of her shoddy records at Gallaudet as the underlining cause for it, not because of how she was raised.

[Cheri]

CIs, SEE, hearing aids, oral deaf all don't make up audism.

You're right it doesn't, But, audism gets thrown around quite liberally these days in the Deaf community, I would know because I've been a member since 2003. The word "audim" had been used inappropriately, so therefore we need to educated people on the actual definition and appropriate use of that word.

As for the 2006 protest, I always understood it that it was because of her shoddy records at Gallaudet as the underlining cause for it, not because of how she was raised.

I don't believe that, I'm sorry. how can people prejudge what she will do as a president when she hasn't became a President yet? They haven't gave her a chance. The blogs and the postings on the Web sites all over the place talked about the fact that she didn't learn to sign until she was 23 years old, how she wasn't deaf enough and etc. So tell me how that has nothing to do with the protest? I truly believe that was part of the reason of the protest.

[rockdrummer]

Originally Posted by Cheri

You're right it doesn't, But, audism gets thrown around quite liberally these days in the Deaf community, I would know because I've been a member since 2003. The word "audim" had been used inappropriately, so therefore we need to educated people on the actual definition and appropriate use of that word.


I don't believe that, I'm sorry. how can people prejudge what she will do as a president when she hasn't became a President yet? They haven't gave her a chance. The blogs and the postings on the Web sites all over the place talked about the fact that she didn't learn to sign until she was 23 years old, how she wasn't deaf enough and etc. So tell me how that has nothing to do with the protest? I truly believe that was part of the reason of the protest.

I agree with you on how audism is misused and also I recall the same types of things said about Jane. IE. she is not deaf enough etc.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by souggy

Re-read the posts.

CIs, SEE, hearing aids, oral deaf all don't make up audism. It is how people write their posts or present themselves as audists. Read their posts again, and you will see that it is poor word choices that make them appear to be audists, intentionally or unintentionally.

I don't have a problem with CI users like deafskeptic, but I do have a problem with CI users like in Post #61.

As for the 2006 protest, I always understood it that it was because of her shoddy records at Gallaudet as the underlining cause for it, not because of how she was raised.

U got it right spot on. I think some people r confused with what audism means. Right, about the Gallaudet protests..the reason was due to Fernandez' inability to lead but of course the media capitalized on a few people saying it was because she wasn't deaf enough. They printed inaccurate info about the protests.

[shel90]

I was there at Gallaudet when Fernadez was provost. As a student, I wasn't happy with her leadership qualities. I have spoken with several of the protesters personally and the ones who are educated about the system say that her not being deaf had nothing to do with it but some stupid idiots trying to make it all about it to mislead the public.

[Pinky]

Audism mean don't believe in sign language and deaf cultures. Audism's hatred to deaf and hard of hearing.

My ex doctor from Riley's Children Hospital. He is very audism and not allowed my parent to learn sign language when I was toddler. And He is not allowed my cousin to learn sign language to communicate with her son with CI bilateral. She admitted that her son is "Deaf" instead hearing impaired. She told me that her son don't have friends at school because no deaf, non CI or HA in his school. The kids figure it out strange that he is wearing CI unlike other kids have. That is so sad for him for not use sign language. The doctor is full of bullshit for not allow babies to learn sign languages. That is why I refused let him surgery on me for CI. Because he is WRONG!!! He is an AUDISM!!!!!

I found new ENT doctor in my hometown. He is open-minded and respect people's choice for sign languages. That is why I like him!

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Pinky

Audism mean don't believe in sign language and deaf cultures. Audism's hatred to deaf and hard of hearing.

My ex doctor from Riley's Children Hospital. He is very audism and not allowed my parent to learn sign language when I was toddler. And He is not allowed my cousin to learn sign language to communicate with her son with CI bilateral. She admitted that her son is "Deaf" instead hearing impaired. She told me that her son don't have friends at school because no deaf, non CI or HA in his school. The kids figure it out strange that he is wearing CI unlike other kids have. That is so sad for him for not use sign language. The doctor is full of bullshit for not allow babies to learn sign languages. That is why I refused let him surgery on me for CI. Because he is WRONG!!! He is an AUDISM!!!!!

I found new ENT doctor in my hometown. He is open-minded and respect people's choice for sign languages. That is why I like him!

That's great about your ENT, Pinky!

It is a shame about your cousin. A big one.

[deafskeptic]

Originally Posted by shel90

I was there at Gallaudet when Fernadez was provost. As a student, I wasn't happy with her leadership qualities. I have spoken with several of the protesters personally and the ones who are educated about the system say that her not being deaf had nothing to do with it but some stupid idiots trying to make it all about it to mislead the public.

At first I wondered about that but when I asked others around me and read up on stuff, it became apparent that Deaf weren't happy with her leadership qualities; it had nothing to do with her background as an oralist and I mentioned to one guy that there seemed to be some disconnect between the Board and the students otherwise they'd have ever chosen her.

[Pinky]

Originally Posted by shel90

That's great about your ENT, Pinky!

It is a shame about your cousin. A big one.

Thank you!

My cousin is audism! Because she refused to learn sign language. That's shameful! She told me about her son's issues at school. My husband told her on text message, "you need use the sign language to communicate with your son". She is stubborn! She is worrying about get another deaf child. She didn't want be same as her son. My husband said she is worrying too much. He told her that we will teach our baby to learn sign language early. It make my baby get smart. I can show my family however I teach my baby ASL. I can turn my cousins interest and shock how is my baby's smart at sign language and speak fast. My cousin will feel stupid and realize. She asked me what if my baby is going be deaf. My husband said he don't have deaf in his family. It's DNA with generic carriage. I don't know about my baby is gong be deaf or hearing. It depend on DNA. Still we will teach my kids sign languages early anyway.

My friends posted the video of AUDISM on facebook last week. It like Sexism, Racism and other. My husband said Audism is pretty insult deaf culture and not believe in sign language. The audism think hearing is better than deaf and hoh.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Pinky

My cousin is audism! Because she refused to learn sign language.

That's exactly what I was talking about, how audism can be misused, misunderstood and misapplied. Pinky; Just because your cousin refused to learn sign language it doesn't necessarily means your cousin is an audist.

Let me provide you examples of audism:

Person A approached you, and asked is that your car?! and You say yea, so?? Person A gets upset and says But, you're deaf, you're not supposed to drive!, only hearing people drive!

A hard of hearing person approached you and say, I'm more successful and smarter than you because I can speak well and you don't.

My first language was English, and you can't write well because English wasn't your first language.

[Pinky]

Originally Posted by Cheri

That's exactly what I was talking about, how audism can be misused, misunderstood and misapplied. Pinky; Just because your cousin refused to learn sign language it doesn't necessarily means your cousin is an audist.

Let me provide you examples of audism:

Person A approached you, and asked is that your car?! and You say yea, so?? Person A gets upset and says But, you're deaf, you're not supposed to drive!, only hearing people drive!

A hard of hearing person approached you and say, I'm more successful and smarter than you because I can speak well and you don't.

My first language was English, and you can't write well because English wasn't your first language.

Her son's doctor was my ex doctor in past. He is very audism.

Thank you for explain. I understand what you mean. It's pretty insult to deaf and hoh. The Audist think deaf can't do anything. Deaf can do anything same as hearing. Both Deaf and Hearing are different cultures. The most deaf people have lousy in English because no hear the sound. The Audism think deaf are speech disorder because can't speak very well. Audism don't believe in sign language as ASL because the deaf and hoh people prefer use ASL over oral, and lipreading. The oral and lipreading are frustrate for deaf people cause stress out. It's take long times to learn this.

[CJB]

While refusing to learn sign language might not be audist, I think seeing spoken languages as "fuller" and more capable of expressing ideas than sign languages is audist.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Pinky

Her son's doctor was my ex doctor in past. He is very audism.

How so? Did he say something negative about sign language? If so give me an example of what he said.

[Pinky]

Originally Posted by Cheri

How so? Did he say something negative about sign language? If so give me an example of what he said.

My mom explained to me. When she found it out that I am deaf at 16 months old. I started to misread in communicate with my parents because I can't hear. I got temper tartum without communicate through sign language. My mom talked with my ex doctor about communicate. He told her not use sign language until I get older to learn. He think it's too early for baby to learn sign language. That's silly! He provided me go to pre-school for hearing impaired instead of deaf school. I was emotional and fit because I wouldn't learn sign language until I become 3. I attended to Pre-school for hearing impaired. My mom met my first teacher about communicate issues. She told her to use sign language. My mom told her that doctor is not allowed her to learn sign language. My teacher said he is wrong! So she started teach me how to sign. Finally I learned it fast. My mom excited that i learned sign language. She is able to communicate with me. I wouldn't feel lonely and isolate without communicate anymore.

My cousin's son has bilateral CI. My ex doctor said they don't need to learn sign language to communicate with her son. He forced their son to be oral. He is very frustrate and feeling isolate at school without sign language. He went to swimming in pool and not able to hear kids' chattering without sign language. He is being bad at school often. That is sad! I encourage my cousin to put her son go to mainstream school to learn sign language and social with deaf and hoh in classroom.

We haven't discuss about this yet. I do not have chance to talk with her because we live far away. I will see them on Thanksgiving and Xmas Eve anyways.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Pinky

He told her not use sign language until I get older to learn. He think it's too early for baby to learn sign language.

So basically the doctor said it was too early for babies to learn to sign? That is the result of ignorance, perhaps fears that the child will never learn to speak. Without a doubt the hearing world is full of ignorance, Just because the doctor went to medical school doesn't mean he knows everything or know what is best for deaf children.

[Bottesini]

Originally Posted by Cheri

So basically the doctor said it was too early for babies to learn to sign? That is the result of ignorance, perhaps fears that the child will never learn to speak. Without a doubt the hearing world is full of ignorance, Just because the doctor went to medical school doesn't mean he knows everything or know what is best for deaf children.

I think I remember Pinky writing about that doctor not implanting people who wanted to get CI if they were going to continue to sign.

That is definitely audist.

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think I remember Pinky writing about that doctor not implanting people who wanted to get CI if they were going to continue to sign.

That is definitely audist.

Yes definitely it is a form of audism.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think I remember Pinky writing about that doctor not implanting people who wanted to get CI if they were going to continue to sign.

That is definitely audist.

That doctor should be stripped of his/her medical license. Who does he/she think he/she is? Making that decision on what language the child should use. That doctor's job is to implant, nothing more. I personally hate doctors like them.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by jazzy

I am sick of this word Audism, Audism Audism from D people who called d people audism. It is alike they are obessed with this word and put label on anyone who somewhat different from D culturalists. D cultralists need to grow up .

If u dont like the Deaf community, then dont hang out with them. I choose not to hang out with those who hold my oral upbringing against me and hang out with those who dont. I know that not everyone in the Deaf community are like those people. However, those Deaf who are audist against other deaf people really dont have a lot of power like those doctors who are audist against ASL and the Deaf community because they easily influence parents of newly diagnosed deaf babies. That is what I am the most concerned about.

[Pinky]

I understand how is Jazzy's feeling. I am curious who is the idea with word Audism in history???

[shel90]

Sallylou,

I thought you might be interested in reading this...here is the link.

AGBell.info Blog Archive DBC Sucks….?

[rockdrummer]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is DBC?