Daredevel7

But.... I am a result of the theory "in practice". That's what I'm trying to tell you. But let me guess...

"Stop talking about yourself. You are an outlier. You don't count."

Deafness

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jillio

More evidence of your total lack of knowledge and your inefficient logic.

Please name the 20 methods currently in use for deaf education. I seem to be missing out on quite a few based on that number.

And do your own research. If you bothered to do so before you attempted to present yourself as someone who understands all of the implications, your arguments would have a much more solid foundation. You truly need a wider perspective.

Daredevel7

How am I doing this? I read the previous posts I made, and I don't see it.

imdeafsowhat

Am I one of those experts?

If so, I'll straight up and tell you of those subjects you want to know of. But remember, I'm just one of those guys, with different excerised opinions. I'm sure I'm totally different from that expert, jillio.

One size fit none - what works for a child doesn't always work for another child - individuals.

imdeafsowhat

Why research when we can express our opinion.

jillio

You, you, you. And for the singular you, there are 200 deaf children who have been underserved and undereducated by the same method you claim as a success for you. I suppose you think that the sacrifice of their well being is justified just to promote a method that has worked for the one.

But your theory regards the testing of infants for oral language protential. You still have not been able to put that theory into practice. Go back and work on your theory. When you reach a point that it could actually be considered as a viable solution to determining an infant's propensity for developing spoken language, get back to me.

jillio

That is your problem. You don't see it. It is evident throughout all of your posts.

imdeafsowhat

jillio, you're quite a reader? I read nothing but the last 3 pages. Hahaha.

Daredevel7

Alright, I give up. You win, Jillio. You've won by throwing a myriad empty interchangable comments such as "your total lack of knowledge", "inefficient logic", "do your research", "you need a wider perspective", and so on.

I will say something mean. You and Shel90 have both similar (if not the same) arguments, but I have learned SO much from Shel90 and not you because she attached her own personal experiences and even though there were a bit of passive aggressive behavior between us, she was at least diplomatic and down to earth about it.

imdeafsowhat

You mean, Shel didn't research? She based it on her feelings and thoughts? I see, I see!

jillio

Its good that you learned something. Perhaps your perspective will become more realistic as a result.

And keep in mind....this is not about shel or me winning. It is about deaf children winning.

imdeafsowhat

And to win, you teach it spoken language with SEE than ASL with spoken language or that's just irrelevant for a child's life.

jillio

Then why are deaf children not increasing their literacy rates and overall academic functioning when SEE is used in educational programs?

imdeafsowhat

Because their parents aren't using it. Since it's in the educational programs, parent aren't really there all the time. It's different for you because you're a teacher PLUS a parent. You remind me of my mother, you're forgetting the time that needs to be spent, quality, with the child for extra attention so you can understand your child. **** the school, ok? It's family now.

jillio

The parents have absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm talking about literacy rates and academic functioning based on the teaching methods that have been in use for the last 30 years.

And I have forgotten nothing when it comes to my child. Stop projecting your ill feelings toward your mother on others. Get some help to deal with your bitterness toward her.

IslandGal

I started out with spoken language and didn't learn ASL until I was 14 years old. Hmmm I feel that it varies with each person with whether or not to start with spoken language or ASL but for me I feel that I should have started out with both languages. I grew up not understanding what my teachers, my preacher and my Sunday School teacher were saying ..... I would fall at some times!

imdeafsowhat

It's the role, not the attitude of yours that remind me of my mother. Do NOT ever ASSUME again.

Education always change, it will continue to change. Because there's always different deaf people with different needs. What stays the same is the family, they are with you everyday, they have to meet your needs. Oh one more thing, leave the mothers out of this thread. I merely said you remind me of my mother because she is a teacher and a mother as well. When I went to school, it was full of bullshit, but when I go to family, there's no bullshit. Just us trying to understand each others and that's love.

The last 30 years didn't stay the same in education. 30 years ago, my high schools I went to, I went to two, they had no programs, no classes to teach any sign language until I came, I explained how it COULD be easy for those to understand a life of the disabled, I didn't say deaf, I said disabled people. Sign Language could be the KEY to communicating with people who hates the sound because it's simply too loud. Today, my high schools I went to, now gives classes to teach sign language and social life of the disablities. Because the family of the students might have sibilings that is disabled and they really don't know how to do crap with them but no more of that. It all changed.

Truly, we, deaf, have it easy while the rest do not.

imdeafsowhat

Everything is different for each individuals.

jillio

That is the whole point. Thank you for sharing your experience. Why restrict a child to an environment that does not allow them to access the same information their hearing peers are able to access?

jillio

Oh, sure....you were single handedly the impetus for a reform in deaf education. And A.G. Bell taught Helen Keller sign language, too.

imdeafsowhat

I didn't say I did it alone.

A.G. Bell can sign.


Also, an idea can change the world. I've seen it and it went from better to worse.

loml

Very true imdeafsowhat, you didn't.

__________________
- Yogi Bhajan-

jillio

A.G. Bell can't do anything. He is dead. And he was an oralist, meaning no sign. The organization that bears his name adheres to the same oralist, audist prinicples as the man himself did. Please educate yourself regarding these matters.

Ideas can also ruin the world. Example: the idea of oral only education for deaf children that has resulted in reduced academic functioning for the population as a whole.

jillio

Nor has it been done since the Milan Conference. Still adhering to the same old same old philosophies based on an oral perspective. Time for the revolution to occur. And it won't happen by reviving a 40 year old technique from the dead.

imdeafsowhat

Mr. Bell can sign. Fingerspelling were his speciality. I think I saw it in a movie of Helen Keller, very very old movie. I need to watch it again. I once did a report on A.G. and it clearly said he was losing his hearings.

Nevertheless, ruining the world could be the only way to change. If it went from better to worse, what could be the harm that there's a chance to ruin the world?

Jiro

not for speaking. That's a small part of the equation. The bigger part of the equation is listening... and that's where we fail the most. If you have a bad hearing, Lip-Reading is ineffective most of time.. as you said - teacher moving around, not facing directly at you, group setting, etc.

imdeafsowhat

That's true for some.

Not for me. Lip reading was effective for me, sure you're right, I missed some when the teacher moves around, but I understand, how?

I am merely playing this game in my head, when I miss what the teacher said, I just fill in the blanks with words that complete the sentence and makes sense relating to the subject. It's pretty easy once you get used to it.

Online Education is more effective I think because like my rival, jillio, you research so much that you have to be your own teacher and student. The professor of the online class will only correct your work and criticize. It truly depends on yourself, this is where the SEE comes handy in this situation. English.

loml

originally posted by CheriCheri - Personally, aside from the fact that is a difficult question to find the complete answer to, I would not be surprised for you, considering your experience with cueing, that some of your skill with lip-reading can be attributed to cueing.

__________________
- Yogi Bhajan-

jillio

How can Mr. Bell sign when he is dead and buried in his grave?

Jiro

No. It's not that Jillio won. It's you who couldn't prove it. Your defense and logic have so many holes that I felt bad for you. The only proof you have is your own experience and a few other friends you know. Sadly... you could not tell me with a higher degree of certainty that your approach for general deaf population in school would produce more success than this approach - "ASL first then Spoken English"

I wonder... is it because you choose to IGNORE Jillio over Shel just because Jillio is a hearing person? Since Shel is deaf, she knows it all.... even though both Jillio and Shel said exactly same thing.

I believe jillio tried her best to explain it logically and had to step it up to a more aggressive tone when you were being combatant and stubborn. The whole past several pages were basically repeating same message in 10000 different ways hence - "beating around the bush"