Grummer

Hi,
There are several questions relating to the heading of this thread, you donot have to answer all of it, it is just a general guide.
The purpose of this thread is to draw out various views on what does Deaf/deaf rights means to Deaf/deaf people and to ascertain if there is any similarity or differences amongst deaf people about the meanings of deaf rights (and disabled rights).
Cheers

So, here are the guide for these questions below:

what does it mean to you?

do you think there is a such thing as deaf rights? if so what? examples?

do you think some deaf organisations are speaking on behalf of Deaf/deaf people? why or why not?

is deaf rights the same as disabled right? why or why not?

do you think this has came a long way or we have a lot more way to go ? and why?

__________________
It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

Deafness

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deafbajagal

Deaf rights to me means the right to have the same equal opportunity that is available to hearing people. For example, I have the right to a communication style that is easily accessible to me. I have the right to an intepreter at a job interview. I have the right to work in any job I would like. I do not think deaf people should have special privileges just because they are deaf.

I do not feel sorry for deaf people, and I get really irritated at the folks who insists that they deserve special treatment. Some deaf people put up a cloak and they call it deaf culture to be used as an excuse for their actions. For example, a lot of deaf people say that they cannot write well because they are deaf - and they use the cloak of deaf culture by having the attitude of "What's the point? I can sign and use an interpreter to communicate whatever I need. I can communicate with the deaf people in my life. There's no need to learn how to write because it is too hard." Yes, it is hard to learn how to write English because of numerous factors (and I won't go into details because that will lead us off topic) but it CAN be done. I've seen it. There are hundreds and hundreds of deaf writers who have published works that will knock your socks off. The difference is that they were determined to learn English by using total immersion of the written language and really learning how to use it. They had to work a little bit ..well maybe a lot more...harder to do it.

If we are going to want equal access to the hearing society, we must learn its language. While spoken language can be difficult, written language is easily accessible for all of us. Yes, using manual communication is awesome, and I certainly do encourage it - but let's get real. It is not always an option. However, written English is almost always an option.

Deaf organizations (sorry, Grum...I'm from US so I got to use the "z" - I know you hate that lol) are different than other organizations that serve people with disabilites, and it should be. Deafness is very unique in comparision to other "conditions" (yes, I admit I cringe to say that deafness is a disability, but that mindset is what has made me accomplished as much as I have thus far). For one thing, the communication and language factors make the issue of deafness very unique and yet very important in determining equal rights and the laws (if any). But there is also a culture factor as well. In the older days (I'm so sad to say it doesn't happen as much for the younger generations), when a deaf organization held a public event, everyone came. It was like coming home, seeing your old friends and family. It was a purely social event and the bond that is seen is unbelievable.

I was a chair for a bilingual event for one for the state deaf associations. It was one of the hardest event to coordinate because not only we were having our regular bilingual meeting, we also had a big deaf school reunion in which all classes were to come at a banquet. One class was celebrating its 50th class reunion - can you imagine?! 50 years since they graduated from high school together! I was walking around the room but many people pulled me into their little circles, eagerly showing me their photographs or memoirs or simply introducing me to their old and precious friends. It was really an eye-opening experience for me that the deaf organization is more than just an organization. One older man came to me and gave me a hug. He had tears in his eyes and he thanked me for pulling this event together. Of course I told him I was just a small part of this event, that there were many people involved who helped me. He pointed to a group of his friends and said, "This is (name of our school). This is home. They are my friends. And they are our family."

That is what makes deaf people so unique and wonderful. There can be two total strangers...one who is a punk goth Christian (yes that is humanly possible) and the other is a dude in a penguin suit - but if they are thrown in a world with chaos and the only thing they have in common is deafness, it is actually strong enough to pull them together. Being deaf is more than just not hearing and not being able to fully access the hearing society without some kind of modification and/or accommodation (and speechreading is a form of modification, imo) - but it is about being isolated from the dominant society. The isolation pulls the deaf people together and thus forming during that process a subcommunity of people from all walks of life. This online forum itself is evidence of that very thing.

Is it about deafness as a disabilty? Or is it about deafness as a birthmark of a subcommunity?

Grummer

a right to have a communication style is a privilege or not?


yes, English is a communication channel that we can't ignore, it is still a visual which means available to deaf people, however it gets very problematic even using a bi-bi approach in education (i am not a teacher so I dont know how good or how tricky to achieve it) but i'm just saying that imo, to really achieve successful bi-bi, not only deaf culture is to be discussed but also hearing culture so deaf students can contemplate the hearing 'worlds' and many not-immediate-subtlies about the hearing working-world (since workforce largely follows the hearing way)

dito, as above

no problems, its just a different spelling order i dont hate it just different


why so sad for the younger generations? aren't they getting a better deal with more Bi-bi, ASL interpreters in classes? why so?
are you suggesting that mainstreaming is much more common now? in other words more deaf student are now scattered apart




indeed, but i also wonder if the misrepresentation of deaf population are evident becuase it is MOSTLY those who have acquired English, in other words its hard to ignore but ost of us are or were from the oral schooling background?

lol, typical of you English-students you like to add the ponderous remark in the conclusion, however it should be noted that the concept of "deaf culture" was not 'born' in clubs, but rather in universities, it was Tom Humperies who coined it. but then again it is debatable, i mean like it could be said it was there all along....only to be recognised when someone put it into words then was spread out, till then it was 'not existing'.

__________________
It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

KarissaMann05

I can't think of good explainations for your questions. But I can answer to this question: "what does it mean to you?"

Deaf rights = all equality. It does matter to me. It do mean a lot to me. I am able to get an interpreter, have a protection from general discrimations, and am able to find a place that I want to live in. If I dicvoice my man then I have a right to keep my kids, there is no reason to take my kids away because of my deafness (I am talked about deaf parent's rights; sorry for confusion...). If I want a job, then there is no reason to reject me out because of my deafness, too (Yeah, I know there are some ways to prevent deafies from getting a job. Sucks.). There are more things to say...

Also, in my opinion, I really wish they add one thing is strongly encouraging more deafies to have jobs. I know it's pretty impossible... Oh, well.

I hope my answer is good enough for your question ^_^

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shel90

My rights to get my deaf needs met and have equal access to communication, language, and opportunities. Simple as that.

__________________
~Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

KarissaMann05

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JClarke

I'll have to get back to you.. I hacve a lot of schitt to spill about eh

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Grummer

Karrisa you said...

Deaf rights = all equality. It does matter to me. It do mean a lot to me. I am able to get an interpreter, have a protection from general discrimations, and am able to find a place that I want to live in. If I dicvoice my man then I have a right to keep my kids, there is no reason to take my kids away because of my deafness. If I want a job, then there is no reason to reject me out because of my deafness, too (Yeah, I know there are some ways to prevent deafies from getting a job. Sucks.). There are more things to say...


well, what more things? care to make a short list, id be keen to know what they are

__________________
It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

Hermes

Deaf rights means human rights to me. In a society things should be designed in a way that all deafs can exercise their equal human rights. But I do not think deaf people should have special rights. They should be equal partners of the society. Therefore I believe declaring such a thing as deaf rights would either be a repetation of human rights or it would imply deafs can only be protected by special rights which is giving them a lesser status.

Please note that deaf people shouldnt have seperate rights doesnt mean there shouldnt be services and laws designed for giving them equal access.

Hermes

P.s: I realize it says "what deaf right means to deaf people" in original post, I am a hearing person..

JClarke

As I have read your comment --

" If I dicvoice my man then I have a right to keep my kids, there is no reason to take my kids away because of my deafness"

Unfortunately, I have to say, the divorce has nothing to have the deaf rights with the kids, it is the 'parents' right, NOTHING with your deafness I have to say, I know. It relies to what you can share with the husband or wife. It is the same thing with Shel90, she is a part time mom to her daughter who is into her pre teens -- she might tell you what can relate without the deaf rights (No offense, Shel90).

For an exmaple of a 'deaf rights' -- I can relate with my court case which I had few years back, which was a school related situation, I was about to go into high school years (Grade 7 - I would say, middle school) and I wanted to attend the catholic college along with my elementary school friends, but unfortunately, they only can provide me a notetaker and 'buddy system' which is not enough so me and my father sued the Catholic Education System and its school for the deaf 'discrimination' and I used my deaf rights to have an interpreter present to make sure I have been educated appropropimately along with the other students, even though I would be different with its english without an interpreter and I would have hard time lip reading through high school years. But I was thank ful that the court case has been dealt with twice and justice has been done -- they should understand better with the discrimination and the 'deaf rights'. There are so many deaf rights within us.

Such as other people, they are outraged even though they were asked to leave in a chinese restuarant, you can find some examples of these from deafbajagal, that's deaf rights. But they might have understood the ADA or whatnot.

There is many other deaf rights that need to match what needs they require.

Does it make sense now, yes?

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shel90

I just want the same rights as hearing people do especially when it comes to full acess to communication and information. I dont need anything else cuz I can take care of myself..just need my visual needs met that's all and to give me a chance instead of shooting me down automatically cuz I cant hear. I have an intelligent mind just like any hearing person and that is what should count.

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~Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

KarissaMann05

Grum, I will try. Gvie me some time to think...

Yeah, I know that. I just remembered one story about a deaf parent's only child was taken away because his/her spouse thought a deaf parent could not take a care of this child. Let me show you a few stories from some links about a battle of person's personal family and children. Because some parents of hearing spouses and/or his/her husband/wife don't trust deaf parents and do not know about parent (and/or deaf) rights... And, there are various reasons too. Oh, yes, and some deaf parents' deaf children may taken away for silly reasons too. Do you know what I say?

Let you know - my explaination sucks on #4. I was not sure how I could explain it, I just know what I was talked about. Yeah, I know my 4# post sound so lame but I'll try do my best to make it clear and simple... Gee, thanks.

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KarissaMann05

Here's one link since I'm surprise there are a lot of off-topic links and only a few great informations so... there are various reasons why deaf people have a right to keep a child. It's not only dicvoice or whatever it is.

- http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=693308 (deaf parents and children)
- One of threads, in here, that I remembered an ADer just got excited to see her newborn but nurses took her child because they thoguht deaf parent don't know how to take care of a baby. I can't remember where it is. Yes, it's prefect example.

Here's some good information: http://deafness.about.com/cs/parentingarticles/a/**********s.htm

That's what I am talked about deaf parent rights. Now do you get it?

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KarissaMann05

* Medical treatments, of course.
* Public accommedations, stores, and businesses.
* State and local government, attornays, and courts.
* Employment, of course. (In my opinion, deaf people should to able do the most important parts of various jobs without assistances. )
* Telecommunications.
* Captioning for general.
* Etc etc - I can't think of more... sorry. >..<;;

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Bebonang

We must have Deaf rights as we are being discrimination on account of our deafness and hearing losses. ADA helps us get our rights to access to interpreters for schools, court cases, and to raise our children without being discrimination by hearing people. We may have the same rights as hearing people but it is different because hearing people think that we are not able functionally as normal human being like as if we are dumb to not know how to do those things like driving the car which shock hearing people. There was a post about deaf parents who were discriminated by the hearing court and her mother or grandmother ( I forget which so I am going to say I assume it is the grandmother) here in AllDeaf. The Deaf parents were refused to have an interpreter in court and it is taking a long time to debate with the court judge about getting an interpreters for them. The children want their parents very much. The Deaf parents are very good parents and Her grandmother is the one who call the Children`s Aid to take the children away from them because she thought the Deaf couple do not know how to take care of the children even if the children are deaf. The ADA was very concern about protecting the Deaf parents with their rights to have their children back in their arms. I don`t know how long the battle last or maybe it is over now as I have not heard if they won the case and get their children back. This is why it is important to access having an interpreter and want to use ASL without forcing us to use speech and lipread. A lot of us need access to having an accomadations to get through difficult obstacles trying to understand hearing people and most hearing people do not understand that we need those accomadations very badly to help us understand better. This is why we have many discriminations among Deaf and Hard of Hearing people. Proud to be Hope that clear it up.

Grummer

So, did you put deaf rights under the 'speech marks' as a way of saying its not really Deaf rights, but more of a Human Rights issue? or is it by other references?

That said, it could indicate to us that 'deaf rights' does not really exist, except if enforced by other means , namely disability discrimination and/or human rights

This is a question we must ponder amongst ourselves to ascertain whether Deaf rights is a such thing or not, or if it is just another way of applying these existing discriminatory laws, which may have some weaknesses lef intact for other situations. thus still leaving deaf people vulnerable to being singled out or ignored.

__________________
It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

VamPyroX

I don't like the concept of "deaf rights" because it's isolated from the general rights.

I would rather say, "I have rights" than "I have deaf rights".

Whenever I hear people use "deaf rights", it's usually when they are trying to abuse it.

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Grummer

ok

__________________
It's like you go to the beach. It's a little cold. You're not sure you want to go in. There's a pretty girl standing next to you. She doesn't want to go in either. She sees you, and you know that if you just asked her her name, you would leave with her. Forget your life, whoever you came with, and leave the beach with her. And after that day, you remember. Not every day, every week... she comes back to you. It's the memory of another life you could have had. Today is that girl.

Grummer