Can *all* deaf people read and write? - Page 2

TheHalfWayMan · 04-15-2008, 11:32 AM

And an Avatar was well!!! Lol!

DragonYoga · 04-15-2008, 11:55 AM

Nice!!!

Love your avatar, 1/2way man!

If anyone tries to tell you that "all" of this or that is true, then it is automatically a lie because there is always an exception to the rule. I'm Deaf myself, and in the Deaf culture, there is a significance to the use of the captialization of the letter D - it denotes a pride of the culture that we are a part of. If you see someone using a little d - as in, deaf - then it's more of a medical/pathological point of view, as in stating a hearing loss but not a part of the culture. (not all though)

HI!

I've had people ask me if I could read and write. I remember when I was about 9, an old woman gave me a magazine full of pictures because she thought I couldn't read. The fact I had a 3 inch thick book with me apparently escaped her notice...

Someone said earlier that those with ASL communication don't usually have the skills to write in English because it's difficult to translate from one to another is partly right. We (my class) actually studied this last semester. What we found out is that the teachers - usually hearing and who learned signs in college/school - will give a very quick translation in English without details.

Let me explain: If a child asks "Teacher, how do I sign this? (signs a car driving manically around twists and turns in the road, and nearly smashes into a tree)" The teacher will say, 9 times out of 10, "The car's driving fast and it almost hits a tree." What happens is the student never learns to make that connection - that English *can* be as descriptive as ASL, and they end up writing the way they have been taught. I was fortunate that my love of reading taught me what I needed to know about writing.

Pepsi · 04-15-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHalfWayMan

No problems PepsiLover... Friends?

Sure, and by the way welcome to AD

SxyPorkie · 04-15-2008, 12:20 PM

i can understand what you are trying to understand us... my most pet peeve was some hearies were shocked..."Deaf can drive a car".. my reply to hearie Can you drive a car BLINDFOLDED?? they realize we use eyes more than hearies...

Many hearies had asked me few stupid questions..OFC i was offended.. What hell was i doing in here.... most of us are well educated and even graduated from colleges... I am glad i see some AD'ers were so nice to you...

Reba · 04-15-2008, 12:29 PM

There's no hard and fast rule. I know some strong ASL users who have excellent English reading and writing skills, and I also know some signed English users who have minimal English reading and writing skills. Some of the signed English users don't use conceptually correct signed English either.

I've also seen hearing English teachers with poor English grammar, who can't spell, and frequently mispronounce words.

DragonYoga · 04-15-2008, 12:30 PM

I don't take offense at any of the questions.

I understand there's so many misconceptions - I just think it's funny. Here's a classic: I get asked if I'm "death".... it's amazing how close "death" sounds to "deaf". My mom told me when she was young she thought the state school for the deaf was a school for dead kids!

Edited to add: Reba, too true! When I was working (before going back to school) my co-workers could always count on me to walk around loudly pointing out all the errors in the memos we were given by our supervisors. I always mocked the fact that I, a working peon, had better literacy and writing skills than the idiot above me.

NickCameron1031 · 04-15-2008, 12:44 PM

[quote=DragonYoga;956830]I don't take offense at any of the questions.

I understand there's so many misconceptions - I just think it's funny. Here's a classic: I get asked if I'm "death".... it's amazing how close "death" sounds to "deaf". My mom told me when she was young she thought the state school for the deaf was a school for dead kids!

QUOTE]

LOL I actually have a shirt that says "I'm Deaf, Death is the guy with the hood and the scythe."

DragonYoga · 04-15-2008, 12:54 PM

Nick, that's priceless! Where did you get the shirt!!!!

Interpretrator · 04-15-2008, 01:09 PM

Deaf people who grow up with no or limited access to language (i.e. their parents never learn to sign, nor do they provide English instruction via Cued Speech or other methods) have a very tough time learning to read and write. There is a higher incidence of illiteracy among deaf people for this reason.

However, if you put a hearing person in this position, it would be the same story. The issue is not deaf or hearing, but rather what kind of language development a child experiences. It's simply a sad fact that many more deaf children are deprived of language during the critical period than hearing children.

I teach English writing and grammar to underprepared deaf college students and there is a definite correlation between the ability of my students to assimilate new information into their writing and how much language exposure they had as kids.

Chase · 04-15-2008, 01:12 PM

"I'm here to learn, so please be gentle!"

I'm sure most here will meet you halfway on that request, yet gentleness is a two-way street. Courteous adults don't ask any question off the tops of their heads without thinking them over and considering consequences.

I don't blame Pepsi for taking a bit of offense. Some people blurt some really inappropriate questions.

A little thought before asking would have told you the inability to read and write cuts across all classes of people. Perhaps a gentler query may have been something like: "Is deafness a barrier to learning to read and write? If so, how do you overcome it?"

SxyPorkie · 04-15-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

"I'm here to learn, so please be gentle!"

I'm sure most here will meet you halfway on that request, yet gentleness is a two-way street. Courteous adults don't ask any question off the tops of their heads without thinking them over and considering consequences.

I don't blame Pepsi for taking a bit of offense. Some people blurt some really inappropriate questions.

A little thought before asking would have told you the inability to read and write cuts across all classes of people. Perhaps a gentler query may have been something like: "Is deafness a barrier to learning to read and write? If so, how do you overcome it?"

Well Said.... Thank you very much... i felt offended also... What hell hearies think we are here to read and write..

Tousi · 04-15-2008, 01:26 PM

Reba's spot on with her answer; for years, at my work/job, I cleaned up the the report writing of so many hearing staffers.

grn13 · 04-15-2008, 01:31 PM

My former supervisor asked me, can you read and write? I said well I can't read but I can write. She can't say a word to me. Since, I worked there for 10 years, duh hearing lady!!!

Tousi · 04-15-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grn13

My former supervisor asked me, can you read and write? I said well I can't read but I can write. She can't say a word to me. Since, I worked there for 10 years, duh hearing lady!!!

You can't read but you can write? Can you expand on that?

jillio · 04-15-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interpretrator

Deaf people who grow up with no or limited access to language (i.e. their parents never learn to sign, nor do they provide English instruction via Cued Speech or other methods) have a very tough time learning to read and write. There is a higher incidence of illiteracy among deaf people for this reason.

However, if you put a hearing person in this position, it would be the same story. The issue is not deaf or hearing, but rather what kind of language development a child experiences. It's simply a sad fact that many more deaf children are deprived of language during the critical period than hearing children.

I teach English writing and grammar to underprepared deaf college students and there is a definite correlation between the ability of my students to assimilate new information into their writing and how much language exposure they had as kids.

Sad, but true, Interpretator.

TheHalfWayMan · 04-15-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

"I'm here to learn, so please be gentle!"

I'm sure most here will meet you halfway on that request, yet gentleness is a two-way street. Courteous adults don't ask any question off the tops of their heads without thinking them over and considering consequences.

I don't blame Pepsi for taking a bit of offense. Some people blurt some really inappropriate questions.

A little thought before asking would have told you the inability to read and write cuts across all classes of people. Perhaps a gentler query may have been something like: "Is deafness a barrier to learning to read and write? If so, how do you overcome it?"

Chase, your response was fantastic. Thank you for pointing things out and thank you for rewriting my question in a more appropriate manner.

The answers which BelleSorrisa and Interpretrator gave me were what was on my mind and I only asked this question (and, believe me, I have lots more), because I'm too impatient to wait until my long distance course gets here.

But, in light of your response and the fact that I received a threatening email from another offended board member, I think I'll wait until my course gets here before I ask any more questions. My thoughts were that I could make friends by asking questions and that you guys would understand that I'm uncultured and don't know anything about Deaf people or Deaf life. I guess that's not the case.

Thanks for correcting me and sorry for any offense.

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:03 PM

the word "ALL" doesn't applied to us (had to throw that in)

well all have different abilities to hear or read or write.. everyone is unique in their own way.. smile...

there's no such thing as a Stupid question, the only way to know the answer is to ask smile

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHalfWayMan

I'm really sorry to have offended you. I'm completely Deaf *un*aware and I'm hear to learn. I'm registered on a course (which should arrive here in about 10 days) and I'm a bit impatient.

Please don't be offended by anything I ask or say. I'm here to learn, so just let me know the question or words would normally be offensive, but don't be offended, please.

(p.s. I am a hearie!!!)

what course is this?? smile

I don't think you were offended as I think you asked it nice... I think also what you can do is don't write a long long note, just briefly or to the point.. I'm sure you'll be fine, with me I can speak and hear and if I don't understand or can't say it, I'll say can I have a paper to write it down.. thanks... to help each other, smile

also beware some not all deafies are against hearing (I don't even use the word hearies) I guess cause I'm so strong orally deaf ... smile... (you can't always please everyone, just go with a grain of salt) smile

TheHalfWayMan · 04-15-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuckian_Chick

there's no such thing as a Stupid question, the only way to know the answer is to ask smile

Thanks for your support, but I'd rather not offend even 1 person.

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHalfWayMan

Thanks for your support, but I'd rather not offend even 1 person.

aww, sometimes it's in their perspective that they think they are offended by not understanding the meaning of what you are asking or what you are aiming at... there's never a right or wrong to do things, just be yourself that's all it matters!!!! there will always be disagreements or agreements or arguments... so I just don't take it to heart.. smile

Don't think I'm a preacher.. lol..I know what it's like to be a hearing in the deaf community.. I'm still struggling in the both world since I was always been in the hearing world and mainstreamed for years without knowing ASL till connected some deaf community about 10 years ago.. it's always a challenge everyday.. so don't feel you are obligated to make everyone person happy... smile

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHalfWayMan

Thanks for your understanding guys.

From all of this, I'm basically understanding that there's no difference between Deaf people and Hearing people when it comes to reading and writing.

you got it smile.. just like one person needing glasses to see and the other doesn't need one... should both be offended?? not smile... we all are HUMAN smile...

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Yes, that's right.

+ 1 (can't count, should of read the whole topic first before answering) hehehehe

it's now +4

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepsi Lover

I just took his question the wrong way. no hard feelings.

smile, no worries... we all do that at times... it's great to stand up for this... that shows how good of a person you are smile

TheHalfWayMan · 04-15-2008, 02:15 PM

Thanks Canuckian_Chick... you made me smile.

BelleSorrisa · 04-15-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHalfWayMan

Thanks for clearing things up.

BelleSorisa... you said...

That's the kind of thing which I was after. Do you know if there are any statistics on this and where I could find them.

I don't have any statistics - maybe you can look on google.

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-neen

Well to my experiences with the deaf culture.. but let me tell you I am deaf. I 've met most of the deaf who can and who can't depends on their skills level. A friend of mine who's complelety deaf himself .. very integellient in english and words than I do. But I do and can read and write like hearing people. But looks it this ways.. I can do sign in english but I can't sign in ASL. I can comunication with the deaf and hearing world. There's no problem for me. I know a couple who are in their 60... their english level are very low but can communication with me . They are married couple . That's what my experience have with them in my life through many years. Sometimes I have to use same level what they have so they can understands me clearly.

yeah I knew a girl that is totally deaf only communication is ASL and is a darn intelligent girl that can read and write like a professor... she's amazing and inspiring to me..

Canuckian_Chick · 04-15-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelleSorrisa

I don't have any statistics - maybe you can look on google.

probably the Gally History Library, be wary that there's always indifference among the deaf which is the right way or not.. it's a never ending journey... but but... we are getting better smile...

04-15-2008, 11:32 AM	#31 (permalink)
TheHalfWayMan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 91	And an Avatar was well!!! Lol! __________________ I'm a learner, so if I say anything wrong, please don't be offended. Just tell me & I'll learn from my mistakes. Also, please participate Meeting Half Way - its life line is Deaf participation.

04-15-2008, 11:55 AM	#32 (permalink)
DragonYoga chocolatechocolate! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 154	Nice!!! Love your avatar, 1/2way man! If anyone tries to tell you that "all" of this or that is true, then it is automatically a lie because there is always an exception to the rule. I'm Deaf myself, and in the Deaf culture, there is a significance to the use of the captialization of the letter D - it denotes a pride of the culture that we are a part of. If you see someone using a little d - as in, deaf - then it's more of a medical/pathological point of view, as in stating a hearing loss but not a part of the culture. (not all though) HI! I've had people ask me if I could read and write. I remember when I was about 9, an old woman gave me a magazine full of pictures because she thought I couldn't read. The fact I had a 3 inch thick book with me apparently escaped her notice... Someone said earlier that those with ASL communication don't usually have the skills to write in English because it's difficult to translate from one to another is partly right. We (my class) actually studied this last semester. What we found out is that the teachers - usually hearing and who learned signs in college/school - will give a very quick translation in English without details. Let me explain: If a child asks "Teacher, how do I sign this? (signs a car driving manically around twists and turns in the road, and nearly smashes into a tree)" The teacher will say, 9 times out of 10, "The car's driving fast and it almost hits a tree." What happens is the student never learns to make that connection - that English can be as descriptive as ASL, and they end up writing the way they have been taught. I was fortunate that my love of reading taught me what I needed to know about writing. __________________ MMM...CHOCOLATE!!!

04-15-2008, 12:20 PM	#34 (permalink)
SxyPorkie SxyPorkie Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,095	i can understand what you are trying to understand us... my most pet peeve was some hearies were shocked..."Deaf can drive a car".. my reply to hearie Can you drive a car BLINDFOLDED?? they realize we use eyes more than hearies... Many hearies had asked me few stupid questions..OFC i was offended.. What hell was i doing in here.... most of us are well educated and even graduated from colleges... I am glad i see some AD'ers were so nice to you... __________________ Life Goes On!!

04-15-2008, 12:30 PM	#36 (permalink)
DragonYoga chocolatechocolate! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 154	I don't take offense at any of the questions. I understand there's so many misconceptions - I just think it's funny. Here's a classic: I get asked if I'm "death".... it's amazing how close "death" sounds to "deaf". My mom told me when she was young she thought the state school for the deaf was a school for dead kids! Edited to add: Reba, too true! When I was working (before going back to school) my co-workers could always count on me to walk around loudly pointing out all the errors in the memos we were given by our supervisors. I always mocked the fact that I, a working peon, had better literacy and writing skills than the idiot above me. __________________ MMM...CHOCOLATE!!!

04-15-2008, 12:54 PM	#38 (permalink)
DragonYoga chocolatechocolate! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Augustine, FL Posts: 154	Nick, that's priceless! Where did you get the shirt!!!! __________________ MMM...CHOCOLATE!!!

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04-15-2008, 12:29 PM	#35 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 16,379	There's no hard and fast rule. I know some strong ASL users who have excellent English reading and writing skills, and I also know some signed English users who have minimal English reading and writing skills. Some of the signed English users don't use conceptually correct signed English either. I've also seen hearing English teachers with poor English grammar, who can't spell, and frequently mispronounce words.

04-15-2008, 12:44 PM	#37 (permalink)
NickCameron1031 Waiting for CI activation Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Havre de Grace MD Posts: 167	[quote=DragonYoga;956830]I don't take offense at any of the questions. I understand there's so many misconceptions - I just think it's funny. Here's a classic: I get asked if I'm "death".... it's amazing how close "death" sounds to "deaf". My mom told me when she was young she thought the state school for the deaf was a school for dead kids! QUOTE] LOL I actually have a shirt that says "I'm Deaf, Death is the guy with the hood and the scythe."

04-15-2008, 01:09 PM	#39 (permalink)
Interpretrator Crime fighter Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,415	Deaf people who grow up with no or limited access to language (i.e. their parents never learn to sign, nor do they provide English instruction via Cued Speech or other methods) have a very tough time learning to read and write. There is a higher incidence of illiteracy among deaf people for this reason. However, if you put a hearing person in this position, it would be the same story. The issue is not deaf or hearing, but rather what kind of language development a child experiences. It's simply a sad fact that many more deaf children are deprived of language during the critical period than hearing children. I teach English writing and grammar to underprepared deaf college students and there is a definite correlation between the ability of my students to assimilate new information into their writing and how much language exposure they had as kids.

04-15-2008, 01:12 PM	#40 (permalink)
Chase Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,316	"I'm here to learn, so please be gentle!" I'm sure most here will meet you halfway on that request, yet gentleness is a two-way street. Courteous adults don't ask any question off the tops of their heads without thinking them over and considering consequences. I don't blame Pepsi for taking a bit of offense. Some people blurt some really inappropriate questions. A little thought before asking would have told you the inability to read and write cuts across all classes of people. Perhaps a gentler query may have been something like: "Is deafness a barrier to learning to read and write? If so, how do you overcome it?"

04-15-2008, 01:26 PM	#42 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,492	Reba's spot on with her answer; for years, at my work/job, I cleaned up the the report writing of so many hearing staffers.

04-15-2008, 01:31 PM	#43 (permalink)
grn13 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mountain Posts: 1	My former supervisor asked me, can you read and write? I said well I can't read but I can write. She can't say a word to me. Since, I worked there for 10 years, duh hearing lady!!!

04-15-2008, 02:03 PM	#47 (permalink)
Canuckian_Chick Tomorrow is a New Day... Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario (I'm a Proud Canadian) Posts: 863	the word "ALL" doesn't applied to us (had to throw that in) well all have different abilities to hear or read or write.. everyone is unique in their own way.. smile... there's no such thing as a Stupid question, the only way to know the answer is to ask smile __________________ Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you Smile.

04-15-2008, 02:15 PM	#54 (permalink)
TheHalfWayMan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 91	Thanks Canuckian_Chick... you made me smile. __________________ I'm a learner, so if I say anything wrong, please don't be offended. Just tell me & I'll learn from my mistakes. Also, please participate Meeting Half Way - its life line is Deaf participation.