Deaf Community vs. ASL students

[shel90]

I watched this guy's Vlog and I have to agree with him about this issue.

Grant Laird, Jr. Blog » Deaf Community vs. ASL Students

I feel the same as he does. When I go to Deaf events or socials, I am not in the mood to teach ASL students about Deaf culture, ASL and more. I go to these events to take a break from teaching (I am a full time teacher) and just joke around with my friends. Just like this guy, I am not saying that to discriminate but just to express my feelings to those ASL students who pose here about going to Deaf events or socials. If you are being ignored, pls consider that Deaf people are not here to teach you nor to improve your ASL skills. We usually go to these events to socialize with our friends and take a break from the stresses of life. Teaching can be very stressful at times espcially when communication is limited.

What do u think of this guy's message?

[Tousi]

Originally Posted by shel90

I watched this guy's Vlog and I have to agree with him about this issue.

Grant Laird, Jr. Blog » Deaf Community vs. ASL Students

I feel the same as he does. When I go to Deaf events or socials, I am not in the mood to teach ASL students about Deaf culture, ASL and more. I go to these events to take a break from teaching (I am a full time teacher) and just joke around with my friends. Just like this guy, I am not saying that to discriminate but just to express my feelings to those ASL students who pose here about going to Deaf events or socials. If you are being ignored, pls consider that Deaf people are not here to teach you nor to improve your ASL skills. We usually go to these events to socialize with our friends and take a break from the stresses of life. Teaching can be very stressful at times espcially when communication is limited.

What do u think of this guy's message?

Then get after your local ASL teachers to not encourage attendance at the more private functions at deaf clubs; just invite them to Starbucks Coffee Night where you can expect that kind of attention and do your share to help these hearing folks who want to immerse themselves in the deaf culture.

[Dixie]

Though I am a ASL student somewhat - I do have to agree with his point of view. But now Im left wondering are these events good for ASL students to pick up some ASL skills or should we ask deaf individuals if they would be willing to give us some of their time to learn some ASL skills?

Like anyone else - the deaf do need a break from life and a chance to socialize with each other in a relaxed setting.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Dixie

Though I am a ASL student somewhat - I do have to agree with his point of view. But now Im left wondering are these events good for ASL students to pick up some ASL skills or should we ask deaf individuals if they would be willing to give us some of their time to learn some ASL skills?

Like anyone else - the deaf do need a break from life and a chance to socialize with each other in a relaxed setting.

Like this guy said, there are a few deaf people who are willing to teach the ASL students at Deaf events but this is a message to the ASL students to explain why they are usually left out at Deaf events or socials. Heck, I was even left out as well when I was first learning ASL but if those students are really serious about learning ASL, they will eventually pick it up.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Tousi

Then get after your local ASL teachers to not encourage attendance at the more private functions at deaf clubs; just invite them to Starbucks Coffee Night where you can expect that kind of attention and do your share to help these hearing folks who want to immerse themselves in the deaf culture.

I wouldnt discourage anyone from attending Deaf socials but just to send the message that if they are ignored, then instead of saying that the Deaf community rejected them, maybe reconsider that many of them are not there to teach but there to relax and enjoy catching up with their friends. Many of the ASL students have interrupted my conversations to ask me the signs for this or that. It gets tiring after a while especially when I am in the middle of a good conversation only to get it stopped.

I was an ASL student myself so I have been there.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by shel90

I wouldnt discourage anyone from attending Deaf socials but just to send the message that if they are ignored, then instead of saying that the Deaf community rejected them, maybe reconsider that many of them are not there to teach but there to relax and enjoy catching up with their friends. Many of the ASL students have interrupted my conversations to ask me the signs for this or that. It gets tiring after a while especially when I am in the middle of a good conversation only to get it stopped.

I was an ASL student myself so I have been there.

I guess I could have considered myself an informal ASL student when I first began learning. I visited a Deaf club, and deaf socials as a way to interact with other deaf individuals. I suppose my purpose was to learn about the culture and the experience of growing up deaf, but it was learning that takes place in a very informal way, like two neighbors chatting about things. Of course, my ASL skills improved, because of the corrections made during conversation.

I don't recall ever being ignored at one of these events. My introduction usually started with, "Hi, my name is Jill, and I have a deaf son." I let the deaf individual I was introducing myself to take it from there, and once it was established that I was simply there to make friends and to help my son develop ties to the community, I would be introduced to others, and usually end up chatting about all sorts of things. I think two things were key in my ability to be accepted into the community: one, that my son was deaf and my motivation was to help him, and two, that I always let the deaf individual take the lead rather than saying "teach me this, or how do you sign that?" Questions that came up usually arised from just having a conversation, so that the learning came from simply getting to know the individual as a person.

[SxyPorkie]

Shel.. I agree with you... One of ASL teachers in college nearby... He sends his students to the deaf club once every month.... when they come in.. that teacher practically ignores them and let them learning to socialize with deafies on their own... He was right... lots of them kept coming back every month to chat with other deafies.. they seem to enjoy.. they dont ask that teacher to help... he refuses to help...he would teach during the classes.. thats about it...

[shel90]

Originally Posted by jillio

I guess I could have considered myself an informal ASL student when I first began learning. I visited a Deaf club, and deaf socials as a way to interact with other deaf individuals. I suppose my purpose was to learn about the culture and the experience of growing up deaf, but it was learning that takes place in a very informal way, like two neighbors chatting about things. Of course, my ASL skills improved, because of the corrections made during conversation.

I don't recall ever being ignored at one of these events. My introduction usually started with, "Hi, my name is Jill, and I have a deaf son." I let the deaf individual I was introducing myself to take it from there, and once it was established that I was simply there to make friends and to help my son develop ties to the community, I would be introduced to others, and usually end up chatting about all sorts of things. I think two things were key in my ability to be accepted into the community: one, that my son was deaf and my motivation was to help him, and two, that I always let the deaf individual take the lead rather than saying "teach me this, or how do you sign that?" Questions that came up usually arised from just having a conversation, so that the learning came from simply getting to know the individual as a person.

That's the better way to go at it rather than going up to people and asking them to show them the signs for this or that or asking them to teach them this or that. It is a conversation stopper.

I dont want the ASL students to stop coming because they felt they are being ignored but just to take into consideration that deaf people deal with hearing people on a daily basis at their jobs (if they work in an all hearing environment) and going to a deaf social is their way to really communicate with others at complete ease.

[RDC_girl]

Its funny, I feel as if I am the opposite... My ASL instructor used to tell us to go to the social events and I never could. I alwasy felt as if I didnt belong... Some of my classmates would go every friday... Personally, if it was my culture I would get annoyed.

Since I have complete the ASL classes and have applied to the interpreter program I have gone a few times. I had fun, and didnt have to rely on anyone which is nice.

[deafbajagal]

A touchy subject, huh? I wish the social events would be labled "closed" for d/hh only and "open" for all. I have nothing against hearing people learning to sign (in fact, I wish more would) or hanging out with "us" - but there are times when I need a place to go to that is truly deaf-friendly. A haven, if you will.

A parent of one of my students told me that she looks forward to Fridays because there is a group of friends who speak Spanish that get together. She said, "I can't wait for Fridays where I can go and spend time with friends in my culture and my language. I like English and try to use it - it's everywhere - billboards, maps, restaurants, etc. But I NEED my Spanish language where I can feel at ease." I am trying to learn Spanish, but this social event is NOT the appropriate place for me since this is their haven.

Plus the idea of learning ASL in this environment is almost impossible because most Deaf people will start coding as soon as a hearing person is seen to be observing the conversation. (Hearing people take notes on this - it is RUDE to observe a conversation without permission). Also, most Deaf people switch to using English-structured signing when a hearing person approaches and talks with them. It's just a natural reaction, especially when the desire of language preservation kicks in. It's very hard for me to use ASL with most hearing persons, even interpreters. I almost have to develop trust before I would even use ASL. If I'm approached by a deaf person who is learning ASL, I -for some reason- feel that it's my ultimate responsibility to do everything to help this person learn signing (ASL or whatever) because that's may be the person's way of life and affects the quality of his/her life. If this was a hearing person with a deaf child, it's the same feeling. However, if it's a hearing person who is joining the social for extra credit, excuse me- I got other things to do. Learning ASL is not just something cool to do in college or taking the class because it looks fun isn't a valid reason to waste my time. ASL is fun and cool - but it is also something to be taken seriously.

[RDC_girl]

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

Plus the idea of learning ASL in this environment is almost impossible because most Deaf people will start coding as soon as a hearing person is seen to be observing the conversation. (Hearing people take notes on this - it is RUDE to observe a conversation without permission). Also, most Deaf people switch to using English-structured signing when a hearing person approaches and talks with them. It's just a natural reaction, especially when the desire of language preservation kicks in. It's very hard for me to use ASL with most hearing persons, even interpreters. I almost have to develop trust before I would even use ASL. If I'm approached by a deaf person who is learning ASL, I -for some reason- feel that it's my ultimate responsibility to do everything to help this person learn signing (ASL or whatever) because that's may be the person's way of life and affects the quality of his/her life. If this was a hearing person with a deaf child, it's the same feeling. However, if it's a hearing person who is joining the social for extra credit, excuse me- I got other things to do. Learning ASL is not just something cool to do in college or taking the class because it looks fun isn't a valid reason to waste my time. ASL is fun and cool - but it is also something to be taken seriously.

My ASL teacher, and every onther Deaf person I know switches to English order. I have noticed that my ASL teacher, now the woman I work with, uses more ASL based sign with me now and I am extremely thankful. I have applied for the interpreter program and I think the woman I work with is more excited than I am lol.

[Kaitin]

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

A touchy subject, huh? I wish the social events would be labled "closed" for d/hh only and "open" for all. I have nothing against hearing people learning to sign (in fact, I wish more would) or hanging out with "us" - but there are times when I need a place to go to that is truly deaf-friendly. A haven, if you will.

Great idea, Deafbajagal.

I think people need to practice a lot without any speech and see ASL (not SEE or PSE). I want to support interest in hearing people who are polite and friendly. I meet so many hearing people who love ASL and want to learn because my hearing roommate is in ASL class. These people are great and I am happy they want to learn.

And it is better than hearing not caring about anything about ASL, deaf/HoH etc and think all should be hearing, speak perfectly etc. So I can't complain about both hearing people too interested and hearing people not caring at all I think.

But.....sometimes I am tired of the look - anyone understand? - like you look at a bug under a microscope or animal in the zoo. Maybe you are impressed with the animal or interested so you look like --> Sometimes my roommate's friends stare when we sign together. I know they want to learn, but our discuss was not a lesson . In the past I have hearing people stare at my mom and me talking and then interrupt to say the person is hearing, loves ASL, is so interested etc etc. and I smile but think "you watched and interrupt a conversation with me and my mom!" Last is the "Children of a Lesser God" problem - Women, do you understand me? Hearing guys so intersted in the deaf/HoH woman.....again looking at me like a bug or zoo animal. My hearing roommate thinks the CoaLG problem is so funny! She knows this look from hearing guys to me and immediately starts trying to mention the movie!

But I try to answer all questions and be friendly and patient. Now I am friends with several of my roommates old ASL classmates, and they stop asking me "what is the sign for __" or "Have you ever heard the sound of __" every 5 minutes because they stop thinking of me only as deaf/HoH.

But sometimes I am frustrated. Like today earlier. So I rant on AD - sorry!

At least Thanksgiving is tomorrow!

[jillio]

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

A touchy subject, huh? I wish the social events would be labled "closed" for d/hh only and "open" for all. I have nothing against hearing people learning to sign (in fact, I wish more would) or hanging out with "us" - but there are times when I need a place to go to that is truly deaf-friendly. A haven, if you will.

A parent of one of my students told me that she looks forward to Fridays because there is a group of friends who speak Spanish that get together. She said, "I can't wait for Fridays where I can go and spend time with friends in my culture and my language. I like English and try to use it - it's everywhere - billboards, maps, restaurants, etc. But I NEED my Spanish language where I can feel at ease." I am trying to learn Spanish, but this social event is NOT the appropriate place for me since this is their haven.

Plus the idea of learning ASL in this environment is almost impossible because most Deaf people will start coding as soon as a hearing person is seen to be observing the conversation. (Hearing people take notes on this - it is RUDE to observe a conversation without permission). Also, most Deaf people switch to using English-structured signing when a hearing person approaches and talks with them. It's just a natural reaction, especially when the desire of language preservation kicks in. It's very hard for me to use ASL with most hearing persons, even interpreters. I almost have to develop trust before I would even use ASL. If I'm approached by a deaf person who is learning ASL, I -for some reason- feel that it's my ultimate responsibility to do everything to help this person learn signing (ASL or whatever) because that's may be the person's way of life and affects the quality of his/her life. If this was a hearing person with a deaf child, it's the same feeling. However, if it's a hearing person who is joining the social for extra credit, excuse me- I got other things to do. Learning ASL is not just something cool to do in college or taking the class because it looks fun isn't a valid reason to waste my time. ASL is fun and cool - but it is also something to be taken seriously.

Hearies seem to think that it is perfectly acceptable to exclude the deafie from a conversation by using that old standard, "Nevermind!" But God forbid, the deafie exclude the hearie!

[Cheri]

I somewhat agrees and I somewhat disagree with his message, don't get me wrong, I do understand where he's coming from and what's he's trying to say, while social events are for the Deaf community usually get together having a good time and chatting their way with their hands in sign language, without having ASL students disturbing them, asking questions about their signs, or the deaf culture.

While I don't have a problem with ASL students come and learn about us (deaf people) because we are the reason for them to learn sign language, because they want to learn to communicate with us, they're interesting in us (deaf people) I don't feel right in my opinion to shut them out and think of myself by having fun with other deaf people. I'm so grateful that they're learning signs and they're so curious about our culture, and it does means so much to me, and that I feel that I owe them their time for questions.

When I go up to Starbucks, there's a get together for the deaf community, I have seen many ASL students there sitting on one and another tables together, I feel bad you know because I feel like the group of deaf people are ignoring them, I don't want to make it look like deaf people are somewhat stuck up, because we are not, we are better than that. Don't you agree? I know what is it like to be left out, and I don't want to put other people in that very same situation. That's just me.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I somewhat agrees and I somewhat disagree with his message, don't get me wrong, I do understand where he's coming from and what's he's trying to say, while social events are for the Deaf community usually get together having a good time and chatting their way with their hands in sign language, without having ASL students disturbing them, asking questions about their signs, or the deaf culture.

While I don't have a problem with ASL students come and learn about us (deaf people) because we are the reason for them to learn sign language, because they want to learn to communicate with us, they're interesting in us (deaf people) I don't feel right in my opinion to shut them out and think of myself by having fun with other deaf people. I'm so grateful that they're learning signs and they're so curious about our culture, and it does means so much to me, and that I feel that I owe them their time for questions.

When I go up to Starbucks, there's a get together for the deaf community, I have seen many ASL students there sitting on one and another tables together, I feel bad you know because I feel like the group of deaf people are ignoring them, I don't want to make it look like deaf people are somewhat stuck up, because we are not, we are better than that. Don't you agree? I know what is it like to be left out, and I don't want to put other people in that very same situation. That's just me.

I think that it is great that you have the attitude of caring whether others are feeling left out because you have experienced it and know how bad it can make you feel. It shows what a kind heart you have.

I think an informal gathering like a coffee meeting at Starbuck's is a good place for ASL students to attend. Not only is it a public place, but there will be many other hearies around. The thing is, these ASL students, rather than asking the Deaf/deaf patrons for lessons in ASL and Deaf Culture, should simply walk up and introduce themselves and have a conversation with the deaf person. If their ASL skills are not up to par, they will get better by having a conversation, and if they need to be shown a sign, it can be done through informal conversation. When I was first learning, I never asked a Deaf person to show me the sign for anything, but if they noticed me struggling to come up with a sign, or if I fingerspelled something that had a formal sign, they would just show me, and then we could continue the conversation. In that way, the hearing person gets to know the Deaf person one on one, and that is what helps to change the perspective of the deaf person as being different than hearing people in some fundamental way. That way, the students get an advantage they cannot get in the classtoom. They can learn signs and Deaf culture in the classroom to a great extent. But they can only make Deaf/deaf friends by interacting with deaf people. And it is the friendships that develop between deaf and hearing that is the biggest benefit to all. JMO.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Cheri

I somewhat agrees and I somewhat disagree with his message, don't get me wrong, I do understand where he's coming from and what's he's trying to say, while social events are for the Deaf community usually get together having a good time and chatting their way with their hands in sign language, without having ASL students disturbing them, asking questions about their signs, or the deaf culture.

While I don't have a problem with ASL students come and learn about us (deaf people) because we are the reason for them to learn sign language, because they want to learn to communicate with us, they're interesting in us (deaf people) I don't feel right in my opinion to shut them out and think of myself by having fun with other deaf people. I'm so grateful that they're learning signs and they're so curious about our culture, and it does means so much to me, and that I feel that I owe them their time for questions.

When I go up to Starbucks, there's a get together for the deaf community, I have seen many ASL students there sitting on one and another tables together, I feel bad you know because I feel like the group of deaf people are ignoring them, I don't want to make it look like deaf people are somewhat stuck up, because we are not, we are better than that. Don't you agree? I know what is it like to be left out, and I don't want to put other people in that very same situation. That's just me.

I agree with u but there are times when I see someone that I havent seen in years at an event and I want to use the time to catch up with them so of course at that time, I wont be thinking nor be in the mood to teach ASL students some signs all night.

Jillo's suggestion on different ways ASL students can approach to signers would work with me. What wont work with me is different people coming up to me without introducing themselves asking me the signs for this or that especially when I am in the middle of a conversation. My point of starting this thread is to make them aware not to ban them from Deaf socials.

About feeling left out...this is going to be ironic. There was a group of ASL students at a Deaf event one time about a couple of years ago whom joined one conversation my friends and I were having, which is not a problem but what happened was that they would start chatting away with each other without signing in the middle of the conversation leaving us Deafies out. That is a big NO NO. Of course by doing that, they will get purposely ignored for the rest of the evening cuz it would turn a lot of people off.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by shel90

I agree with u but there are times when I see someone that I havent seen in years at an event and I want to use the time to catch up with them so of course at that time, I wont be thinking nor be in the mood to teach ASL students some signs all night.

Jillo's suggestion on different ways ASL students can approach to signers would work with me. What wont work with me is different people coming up to me without introducing themselves asking me the signs for this or that especially when I am in the middle of a conversation. My point of starting this thread is to make them aware not to ban them from Deaf socials.

About feeling left out...this is going to be ironic. There were a group of ASL students at a Deaf event one time about a couple of years ago and they joined one conversation my friends and I were having which is not a problem but what happened was that they would start chatting away with each other without signing in the middle of the conversation leaving us Deafies out. That is a big NO NO. Of course by doing that, they will get purposely ignored for the rest of the evening cuz it would turn a lot of people off.

I never thought about that. And, beginning signers do tend to drop their signs whenthey are talking to another hearie in the presence of a deafie. Agree......that's a big no, no!

[robbielyn]

Originally Posted by jillio

I never thought about that. And, beginning signers do tend to drop their signs whenthey are talking to another hearie in the presence of a deafie. Agree......that's a big no, no!

I truly understand deafies feeling it's rude for hearies to drop signs and start talking it is like going to the nail salon and all the vietamese talking on and on in their language. How do i know they aren't talking about me? But on the other hand, let me assure you that most who are learning asl, drop their signs not because they are bad mouthing you but because it gets mentally tiring and complicated to have everyday conversation in asl when they are just learning. It's just easier for them to talk in their language. I find myself doing that. To mentally think how to translate to asl a story I may want to relate it's just easier to talk. You all might say well how else are they to learn if they don't practice? That is true. I could always switch to PSE which is easier but somehow I feel like that isn't even a language and don't care to use it but if it means not being rude then I guess I should.

[shel90]

Originally Posted by robbielyn

I truly understand deafies feeling it's rude for hearies to drop signs and start talking it is like going to the nail salon and all the vietamese talking on and on in their language. How do i know they aren't talking about me? But on the other hand, let me assure you that most who are learning asl, drop their signs not because they are bad mouthing you but because it gets mentally tiring and complicated to have everyday conversation in asl when they are just learning. It's just easier for them to talk in their language. I find myself doing that. To mentally think how to translate to asl a story I may want to relate it's just easier to talk. You all might say well how else are they to learn if they don't practice? That is true. I could always switch to PSE which is easier but somehow I feel like that isn't even a language and don't care to use it but if it means not being rude then I guess I should.

No, it is not about being worried what they are saying about us. It is because if they are in the middle of a conversation and all of sudden they drop signing and continue the conversation within themselves that leaves us out of the conversation. They have to realize that if they really want to be included and dont want to be left out, then they cant do that to us too.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by robbielyn

I truly understand deafies feeling it's rude for hearies to drop signs and start talking it is like going to the nail salon and all the vietamese talking on and on in their language. How do i know they aren't talking about me? But on the other hand, let me assure you that most who are learning asl, drop their signs not because they are bad mouthing you but because it gets mentally tiring and complicated to have everyday conversation in asl when they are just learning. It's just easier for them to talk in their language. I find myself doing that. To mentally think how to translate to asl a story I may want to relate it's just easier to talk. You all might say well how else are they to learn if they don't practice? That is true. I could always switch to PSE which is easier but somehow I feel like that isn't even a language and don't care to use it but if it means not being rude then I guess I should.

PSE is better than no signs at all, because it at least provides a manner by which the deaf indiviual can follow the conversation. I understand that it is difficult at times to find the correct signs and phrasing, I have been there. However, it is even more difficult for the deaf individual who is attempting to follow a 3 or 4 way conversation with no signs.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by shel90

No, it is not about being worried what they are saying about us. It is because if they are in the middle of a conversation and all of sudden they drop signing and continue the conversation within themselves that leaves us out of the conversation. They have to realize that if they really want to be included and dont want to be left out, then they cant do that to us too.

Exactly. It is about mutual respect and consideration.

[Kaitin]

Originally Posted by shel90

About feeling left out...this is going to be ironic. There was a group of ASL students at a Deaf event one time about a couple of years ago whom joined one conversation my friends and I were having, which is not a problem but what happened was that they would start chatting away with each other without signing in the middle of the conversation leaving us Deafies out. That is a big NO NO. Of course by doing that, they will get purposely ignored for the rest of the evening cuz it would turn a lot of people off.