Deaf Community vs. ASL students

[jazzy]

I think it is so nice of them to be part of us and us be part of them. Why separate us, it is attiude many deaf people still carry from old days. Deaf only, keep hearing away from us? One thing I learned about my job, I met so many of them and I was so awesome with them for that they get to use ASL with me and they knew I am deaf. They took ASL classes and attend deaf events. It worked very well so far and why should things need to change for worse?

[Bebonang]

Are you hearing? The problem is that we would like to have ASL students to communicate with us without asking us to teach them and also when they don't want to sign and start talking to other hearing people. It make us feel left out and if the hearies don't understand us, then they need to have more training time in the ASL class. We, deafies, like to socialize without the hearing asking for us to help them with their signs. We need our break to socialize with no voice and just sign away what we want to say. We are happy being in the Deaf event, like the Deaf Clubs. So have some respect for us deafies, eh?

[Bebonang]

I know you are deaf, Jazzy!!!!!

[traciedowell]

Being an ASL teacher I feel I have a good perspective in this conversation. I have ASL I, II and III students. I have NEVER told my students to attend Deaf events because I think it's a place for people to socialize who know each other and relate to each other. It would be like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to. When I want my students to get "hands on" experience using their ASL skills, I ask my mom to come in to class and sign with the girls. They are usually nervous at first because they have never had a conversation with a Deaf person before but once they get comfortable you can see their confidence increase as well as their signing skills. My mom is a very patient person and when she comes in to my classes, she is accepting that the time spent will be for teaching the students. The difference at a Deaf social event is that those people did not CHOOSE to attend for the purpose of teaching ASL students how to sign better. I agree with Shelly that those events should be off limits to people who just want to better their signing skills. There are other ways to do it successfully.

Yes it is important for ASL students to sharpen their skills and the only way they can do it is by practicing. They just need people willing to take the time to work with them. The important thing is that whoever does it should be a willing participant and not someone who is bothered at a social event. JMO.

[Oceanblue7]

I can see the points made in this thread. Maybe, a suggestion to those who are in sign 1 and 2 can go to the events upon observation, the environment, what they learned and saw etc.. Just to see how communication in sign language is real important in the deaf community. Bec eventually they will need to interact with the deaf community oneday when they become more advanced at a later time.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by traciedowell

Being an ASL teacher I feel I have a good perspective in this conversation. I have ASL I, II and III students. I have NEVER told my students to attend Deaf events because I think it's a place for people to socialize who know each other and relate to each other. It would be like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to. When I want my students to get "hands on" experience using their ASL skills, I ask my mom to come in to class and sign with the girls. They are usually nervous at first because they have never had a conversation with a Deaf person before but once they get comfortable you can see their confidence increase as well as their signing skills. My mom is a very patient person and when she comes in to my classes, she is accepting that the time spent will be for teaching the students. The difference at a Deaf social event is that those people did not CHOOSE to attend for the purpose of teaching ASL students how to sign better. I agree with Shelly that those events should be off limits to people who just want to better their signing skills. There are other ways to do it successfully.

Yes it is important for ASL students to sharpen their skills and the only way they can do it is by practicing. They just need people willing to take the time to work with them. The important thing is that whoever does it should be a willing participant and not someone who is bothered at a social event. JMO.

From your post, I have no doubt that you are one of those teachers who not only teaches the language, but provides and accurate and sensitive picture of Deaf culture and of those who are members of that culture! Kudos to you, and to your mom, as well, for her willingness to help others to understand and become more tolerant.

[traciedowell]

Originally Posted by jillio

From your post, I have no doubt that you are one of those teachers who not only teaches the language, but provides and accurate and sensitive picture of Deaf culture and of those who are members of that culture! Kudos to you, and to your mom, as well, for her willingness to help others to understand and become more tolerant.

You're absolutely right Jillio. Actually in the first few classes when I have a new group of students, I teach them about Deaf culture at the same time as the alphabet. It's a good foundation for hearing people to begin with so they can have an understanding for where Deaf people are coming from, not just the language. Knowing ASL is great but understanding it's importance is even better.

[jillio]

Originally Posted by traciedowell

You're absolutely right Jillio. Actually in the first few classes when I have a new group of students, I teach them about Deaf culture at the same time as the alphabet. It's a good foundation for hearing people to begin with so they can have an understanding for where Deaf people are coming from, not just the language. Knowing ASL is great but understanding it's importance is even better.

YW.

[Kaitin]

Great posts, Tracie!

[Grummer]

Originally Posted by Kaitin

I experienced this and agree with NO NO. My roommate studies ASL and invited ASL classmates to our apartment. No problem and I said I will have conversations with them. But some stopped signing and just talk with each other, facing away. I told my roommate no way again because I can't understand and the ASL students don't try sometimes. Now we sometimes have other ASL students here for practice but only 1 or 2 because more will talk with each other and not sign.

Print this threat out, take it to the classes, hell even get the ASL teacher to say " this is mandatory reading, because I do not accept this behaviour of stop signing after class, where we deaf are still here, an also it is a high time to practice your 'informal-after class conversations in sign', while it is also a mark of respect to us, the ASL tutors/teachers as does to the deaf community, by deciding not to 'unintentionally shutting us off, by way of disspelling your visits to ASL classes as a mere 'quaint addition' to your already richer [hearing] knowledge, having said this, it is considered as an insult, no excuses like, "oh we are tired and we making freinds with other hearing people attending to the same class, and 'how dare you deafies dictate us NOT to speak after the lessons??!

indeed this is gonna be really touchy, I wonder so if we need another thread just to banter, exchange ideas to develop this 'how to approach hearing to change their attitudes towards learning Sign Language ( I didnt say ASL, because im not from USA) and associated issues and situation of handling this tendancy they have to "drop sign, on excuse of being tired oh we forgot our teacher is deaf - hush about it must be awful to feel to miss out and yet continue (!)..sort of silent shared reactions among hearing sign language learners.

but yeah, i still reckon only if some printed document to explain the rules, and protocols if you will, and such to rid this dreadful habits hearing people have of dropping signs or bugging for more signs inappropriately.

[arachyd]

It sounds like it all comes down to courtesy, respect for others, and common sense. It is rude to interrupt someone's conversation with an unrelated question no matter what language is used. That is something small children do and are quickly corrected by their elders. I've never been to a deaf event. Is it possible to have suggestions posted at the event on proper manners for ASL students without offending everyone or issue voluntary tags to identify a student? That way anyone willing to help them will know who they are and they won't be as likely to bother others. If it is voluntary it wouldn't seem they are being picked on but helped.

That teacher should include social skills as part of the class grading system and then give lower grades to the students who ignore deaf people in the class when they talk among themselves. Other assignments are after class time (homework, etc.) so it would be reasonable for it to be counted in the grades.

[Grummer]

Originally Posted by traciedowell

You're absolutely right Jillio. Actually in the first few classes when I have a new group of students, I teach them about Deaf culture at the same time as the alphabet. It's a good foundation for hearing people to begin with so they can have an understanding for where Deaf people are coming from, not just the language. Knowing ASL is great but understanding it's importance is even better.

that too, to be emphasised with the priint-this-out tactic i just mentioned

[Interpretrator]

Originally Posted by traciedowell

I have NEVER told my students to attend Deaf events because I think it's a place for people to socialize who know each other and relate to each other. It would be like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to.

Maybe it depends on what kind of deaf events take place in your area. In my area there are events where students are welcomed...as long as they have some basic knowledge or willingness to learn ASL, and a respect for the culture. In other words:

Originally Posted by Bebonang

The problem is that we would like to have ASL students to communicate with us without asking us to teach them and also when they don't want to sign and start talking to other hearing people.

That's exactly the kind of behaviors that I witnessed from the ASL 1 students who came to one event. Asking the deaf people to do things like translate song lyrics into ASL (without even providing them written down in English -- no thought that maybe a deaf person wouldn't know lyrics to a certain song!), or grouping together and talking without signing. Very rude. But there were other students there who did behave appropriately. It totally depends on what and how they're being taught.

[dreamyGerm]

Well, i'm a asl student i've been to two deaf social day and tomorrow might be my third.
Unlucky, i havent been able to really communicate with anyone cause im shy and is still a new world for me, i do know like the conversatinal signs and stuff like that, but i dont want to feel way embarrased if i messed up.
but im not there like, hey how you sign this?. Im more like just another person in the crowd and just would like to chat but again im shy. So hopefully tomorrow will be different.

[Tousi]

Originally Posted by dreamyGerm

Well, i'm a asl student i've been to two deaf social day and tomorrow might be my third.
Unlucky, i havent been able to really communicate with anyone cause im shy and is still a new world for me, i do know like the conversatinal signs and stuff like that, but i dont want to feel way embarrased if i messed up.
but im not there like, hey how you sign this?. Im more like just another person in the crowd and just would like to chat but again im shy. So hopefully tomorrow will be different.

Understood re: the shyness; however, "mess up"...... and you will...., there's not thing wrong with that as it is just something you go thru on the way to bettering your skills and knowledge. Dive right in!

[Reba]

When Hubby and I as beginning signers first started attending Deaf "events", we started with silent dinners. Expectations at silent dinners are minimal, and people were free to get as involved as they felt comfortable. If nothing else, you could just introduce yourself, eat and observe. Pretty low key.

We "graduated" to local Deaf association meetings and socials. We usually didn't discuss "signing" topics or ask "how to sign" questions. We chatted about the same stuff that everyone chats about; weather, children and grandchildren, traffic, shopping, aches and pains (we were in an older group, heh, heh), TV programs, etc. If the Deaf acquaintance noticed that we didn't grasp something, he/she might spell it or explain a sign, as it popped up in conversation. But no "signing" quizzes or drills.

It also pays to have a good sense of humor. There's always at least one character in the crowd who loves messing with newbie signers' minds. We had an elderly Deaf gentlemen in our group who loved intentionally giving us incorrect signs or double-entendre name signs for a chuckle. Of course, we hearies got wise to him and took any sign "suggestions" from him with a grain of salt.

[Tousi]

Originally Posted by Reba

When Hubby and I as beginning signers first started attending Deaf "events", we started with silent dinners. Expectations at silent dinners are minimal, and people were free to get as involved as they felt comfortable. If nothing else, you could just introduce yourself, eat and observe. Pretty low key.

We "graduated" to local Deaf association meetings and socials. We usually didn't discuss "signing" topics or ask "how to sign" questions. We chatted about the same stuff that everyone chats about; weather, children and grandchildren, traffic, shopping, aches and pains (we were in an older group, heh, heh), TV programs, etc. If the Deaf acquaintance noticed that we didn't grasp something, he/she might spell it or explain a sign, as it popped up in conversation. But no "signing" quizzes or drills.

It also pays to have a good sense of humor. There's always at least one character in the crowd who loves messing with newbie signers' minds. We had an elderly Deaf gentlemen in our group who loved intentionally giving us incorrect signs or double-entendre name signs for a chuckle. Of course, we hearies got wise to him and took any sign "suggestions" from him with a grain of salt.

Hahaha, Reba, was "pasturized milk" or "brownies" a couple of them?

[Reba]

Originally Posted by Tousi

Hahaha, Reba, was "pasturized milk" or "brownies" a couple of them?

The "milk" was one, yes.

[Southern]

I think these events are valuable in learning ASL. you can study all day long in books but the language doesnt get in your hands until you put it into practice. ASL students can be very annoying though, and i speak from experience. You can show them something 1,000 times and they still get it wrong and your time has been taken away from your friends, which is why you are there in the first place. If i have to tell another student, "no you just signed 'date' as in the person you are dating not 'meet' look at my hands, now look at yours do you see the difference?" "No they are the same" NO THEY AREN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
half the time i want to tell my Deaf friends okay look at the event dont tell anyone that i am hearing, let me do it. If they all think i am Deaf fine. I dont want some hearie attached to me the entire party. Which is what happens. BLEH!!!!!! So i see that side of it. But to use it in a real life setting with those whose native language it is, it is so valuable. I think what needs to happen is there needs to be events where it is said students come it is fine, tell the colleges yes it is great we want to help so tell them to come to this event. Then other events no we just want those who know the language to be there. I dont think it is discriminatory until you say "We dont want you hearing bastards at our party!!" LOL a lot of people that meet me are surprised i am hearing anyway which is fine with me. =)

[Kaitin]

Originally Posted by Southern

I think what needs to happen is there needs to be events where it is said students come it is fine, tell the colleges yes it is great we want to help so tell them to come to this event. Then other events no we just want those who know the language to be there. I dont think it is discriminatory until you say "We dont want you hearing bastards at our party!!" LOL