allykat

I logged in to these forums to learn something about deaf people. that seems funny, but i try to be sensitive to people different than me. my sister is wheelchair bound and it has opened my eyes to the needs of someone different than what my sister likes to call "the normals". so i figured id start here.

ive read many many posts... the funny ones, the annoyed and angry ones, the sad ones, the hopeful and scared... and ive learned so much about how not to be rude or inconsiderate or thoughtless.

but there was one thing, thru all the angry and annoyed posts that kept filtering thru my head. communication goes both ways. here are some thoughts and ideas and advice... i hope it doesnt offend as i just wanted to show that sometimes, those assholes who treat you differently or inconsiderately dont mean to.

it seems that the more common annoyances are when a hearing person thinks that being deaf means a person can't speak or lip read or the hearing person "talks down" to the deaf person or as tho the deaf person is an idiot (which really makes the hearing person the idiot lol)

and here is the only thing i could think of to say in defense of us hear-ers.
we dont know any better. for the majority of us, the only experience we have with deafness is that movie about helen keller. it never occurs to most people that there can be a level of deafness or that a deaf person could *gasp!* talk. so, keep that in mind when a hearing person is acting like an idiot when trying to communicate with you.

also, the "talking down" thing... that is very very common in many situations. for example: i do a lot of traveling, and speak french and a little spanish. often times, when speaking to someone with french or spanish as their first language, they will speak slowly and carefully, using little words and simple ideas, as tho a poor accent means my brain is small. its frustrating, but i keep in mind that that person's experiences with others like me has forced them to feel that communicating "normally" is ineffective or hard for me to understand. they dont intend to insult me... they just dont realize that the dexterity of my tongue isnt related to my intelligence.

be patient with us. people are often ignorant, and more times than not, scared when faced with communicating with someone different than themselves. its hard to understand something youve never experienced. and you cant judge one person by another... every deaf person is different. a stranger cant know you speak or exactly how much you can hear from a first time encounter as not all deaf people can, and the level of deafness varies... so when they pass you a piece of paper, or compliment you on your sexy voice, dont think its an insult... recognize it for what it is: someone trying to help or be considerate and communicating the best way they know how.

people are deathly afraid of uncomfortable situations. so when they face communicating with a deaf person, most will go the easiest route... write it down or look for an interpreter so that you wont be embarassed by having to ask "what?" and they wont feel stupid by talking too low or not being able to get across what they want to say.

just remember that most people are ignorant... but dont mean to be. and generally, when theyre corrected, they take it in stride and learn from it. rather than be pissed at the stupid things we hear-ers do when communicating with you, TEACH us. dont leave us as clueless and ignorant as we were before the conversation.

anyway, thank you guys for this forum. there is a deaf woman who delivers supplies at my office. ive always felt uncomfortable with her, as im not sure what to do, how much she can hear etc... on monday, i think ill just ask her.
i hope i havent pissed anyone off or come off as a jerk or anything like that.

Deafness

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jillio

Stick around, hear-er. It's always great when someone truly wants to learn. Thanks for being a caring person.

R2D2

Great post! I'm certain that we deaf people react similarly with people in situations that we aren't familiar.

As you say, a lot of it is about two way communication and education.

Sometimes though, deaf people need to vent about whatever happened that frustrated them on a particular day with people who understand. It's all part of getting it out of the system LOL! It doesn't mean we all think that hearing people are evil though, even though it may seem that way.

Thanks for your contribution.

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Sassyspiritedel

I am a hear-er, and my boyfriend is deaf, and I notice that many people treat him as if he were retarded because he can't hear or speak. It is unfair, and it is common. I also notice that people are VERY surprised when he and I are signing, and then I speak. I have heard many comments that people wish they could take back when they realize that just because I am signing, does not mean that I am deaf.

Defmusicman

Great post, Allykat!!
Deaf people do come in all sizes and flavors and I am endlessly amused by the reactions I get when hearing people realize that I can speak and actually think for myself!! And imagine their reaction when they find out that I am also a musician! If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me "How can you play music if u can't hear", I'd be a millionaire So welcome again and we hope that you can stick around for a long time to come.

shel90

to AD! Love your post and we need more hearing people with your great attitude and open-mindness.

Hope u enjoy your stay here and maybe u can make some friends.

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Cheri

Great post! Welcome to AllDeaf, I agree with Shel it's good to have people with a great attitude. Thanks for looking us up.

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pek1

First of all, welcome to alldeaf. I promise none of us are so different that we are sprouting antennaes from our heads or drool when we speak. Just kidding, thought I'd say that to see if you're still reading!

Sorry for editing you . . . just a habit, being a writer and professional student. One thing you need to know, you are NOT a "hear-er." The term is "hearie." All of us have some form of deafness and it's safe to presume, none of us are alike. Surprised? We also work in all occupations, drive different kinds of vehicles (Tousi drives a Honda trike in Southern Cal, while I used to drive a Cadillac and have a minivan now).

Some of us have hearing or other kinds of service dogs. My dog is Snickers, an Akita-German Shepherd mix and accompanies me almost everywhere. I sometimes cape her, but nearly everyone IGNORES the "do not pet" symbol on it, although I am lenient with people petting her and do tell people on occasion not to. Others who have service dogs aren't as eager for people to pet their dogs, as the dog is actually an extension of the person (which is what I believe).

As for "teaching" as you mentioned (out in public). I would love to, but you know what? My time is valuable, too, okay? You would not believe how many times we've been stared at, pointed at, gawked at . . . we've been chased around by security, assaulted, had a gun aimed at Snickers and threatened (by the police). Seeing a person in a w/c is no big thing, but whoa! a dog!! And, the parents are just as bad as the kids and grandparents. We're not a freak show or circus act, nor are we out there to answer a load of questions. People have asked me questions that they themselves would never answer if I asked the same thing, so "educating" is out of the question, especially for no charge. Sorry for sounding snotty, but, this is what's occuring. I'm just waiting for someone to ask me to let them feel and handle my hearing aids. I've seen people mocking other deaf people while they're signing . . . I'm already exhausted describing this to you . . .

Oh, another thing, a pleasant experience today while at the grocery store this morning. An elderly lady signed to me, asking me if I knew her son, as he's deaf, too. (I didn't, but that's okay, I welcome this!) She even mentioned "hearing dog" which I thought was nice and I didn't have to tell her AND, get this, she acted appropriately (ignore the dog, talk to the person). Snickers had a blaze orange halter on (blaze orange is for deaf). Another time, a cleaning lady at a truck stop just east of Missoula, Montana last Thanksgiving Day noticed right away that Snickers was a hearing dog, without even having to ask me! Small town and she knew a hearing dog when she saw one. Only twice or three times has Snickers had an accident while out in public, which I am very proud of. People even comment how well behaved she is!

Patience, yes I have a lot of that. Have to for hearies! But, don't ask the lady on Monday how deaf she is, as even I was a little ticked at that. Get to know her. Make sure she's single and you are, too. After awhile, she'll tell her if she wants, but don't press for it.

Stick around and ask questions. The only money you're paying is internet service and there are loads of threads and forums here (free for now), so ask away! After we get to know you better, we'll know you're a hearie, but that's okay. You need to learn a whole new culture, just like all of us had to. You won't drive us crazy or drive us to drink, so ask questions. Keep asking and reading. Some may even point you to more websites or books/magazines to read.

I wasn't too hard on ya, was I?

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Pete

allykat

oh yay, im so glad my post was received well! when i read it over after i posted it i was a little worried that it had a kinda lecture tone, which isnt what i meant.

haha pete, i just wanted to mention that im not interested in the delivery woman THAT way she's just always very nice and smiley and i figured maybe i should just talk to her instead of being weird.

anyway, vent all you like, i was just feeling the need to throw out some hearie defense!

pek1

Well, that's alright, kat! Just remember that the beatings will continue, okay? Just until the morale improves with ya!

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Pete

jillio

Yeah, you big doofus! What do mean playing a guitar...don't you know you're DEAF! (Just kidding, don't shoot me!)

signer16

Allykat,
I know you are just now starting this venture into learning about the Deaf community, Deaf culture and ASL. Good luck!

For some basics, you can just read around, but this link has some suggestions from Deaf people, and hearing people who have learned how to interact with the Deaf community, on how to interact with deaf people.

Respect and Communication between hearing and Deaf

One example and what I've learned from my experience:
1. The deaf person is just that, A PERSON. If the person is an adult, treat him/her like one, as an equal human being. Their ears may be broken, but that doesn't mean anything else is, including their heart and brain.

2. Follow the deaf person's lead, but be willing to gesture, write, articulate your speech, and sign what you can. There isn't one right way, just be willing to be flexible. It is 10 minutes out of your day, but this is something a deaf person has to do constantly, every day.

3. Remember that eye contact is important. No matter how you are communicating, let them know why you are going to look away, if you do... If a hearing person comes up and starts speaking to you when a deaf person is in the middle of explaining something, try your best to let the deaf person finish their thought...really, the same as you would with any person, but realize that many people think it is totally okay to interrupt a signed conversation when they wouldn't interrupt a spoken one.

4. If you are in a group of hearing people with just one deaf person, and there is no intepreter, do your best to let the deaf person know what's going on. Again, writing, signing, whatever you need to do to communicate. If the deaf person asks a question, answer! Don't say "never mind" or "I'll tell you later".... never mind is just rude and you most likely won't remember exactly what you wanted to "tell them later."


Something I would specifically add to you AllyKat is that asking Deaf people about their degree of hearing loss and what they "can or can't do" is not considered...well... appropriate. That's viewing them as "disabled" first and as a person second. Showing a willingness to communicate, but about their deafness, is not. You will most likely get a very defensive response, if not a hostile one. Deaf people are very focused on what they can do, not what they can't, I will explain this is another post.

signer16

Allykat, I would like to try to explain better why Deaf people might react to your questions in a negative way.

Deaf people's biggest barrier, (this is the belief of the Deaf community from what I have seen as well as my personal one) is not their decibel loss but the obsession many hearing educators, doctors, (parents) etc. have with deaf people being able to use their mouth and ears. Many of these people are truly obsessed with having Deaf people use their "residual hearing"

--this is akin to trying to fly a plane using its dead engine rather than the other fully functioning ones. --

Deaf people almost always go through years of years of speech therapy to teach them to learn to speak and lipread, (and now AVT--which teaches them to try to hear without being able to lipread at all)-- sometimes the entire focus of the child's life is on the functioning of their ears and mouth (to form speech) --the one thing that they can't do. They are told about dB(decibel loss) and degree of hearing loss and all sorts of other heavily medical and heavily auditory-based information. Very little time is spent on developing their other senses, most importantly vision, which allows them to do everything that a competent hearing person can do.

Rather than being recognized as someone with a physical disability, such as paraplegia, which prevents them from being able to do certain physical actions, Deafness is seen by the deaf community, at worst, as a communication disability. Although many deaf children grow up with tons of focus on what they can't do; many, once they are introduced to/find the Deaf community, realize they are capable adults and are very focused on all that they can do--everything. IF everyone signed, Deaf people could be fully integrated into our world all the time, not being able to hear in itself is very little of a Deaf person's gripe. So, when a hearing person brings up such a question, it not only shows ignorance, but often reminds them of the well-meaning but highly misguided professionals they dealt with growing up, who-often- left them starving for information and language that they never got.

Make sense? Sorry that was such a long post, if you don't understand something, or if I wasn't clear, please let me know. If anyone disagrees, they are more than welcome to respond.

Angel

Hello there and welcome to AD, also I agree with Shel90 on the part where she said " we need more hearing people with your great attitude and open-mindness " and that's exactly what I would like to see too....

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Ariakkas

thats kinda the point. Hearing people arent well informed enough, and deaf people bear the brunt of this.

most(not all) of the gripes deaf people have regarding communication are legit. If a hearing person talks down to another hearing person for any reason, its not acceptable, and there's no excuse for it. Hearing people who ignore a deaf person when they find out they are deaf, or a guy in a club hitting on a deaf girl thinking shes a bitch for ignoring him. All this is unacceptable in hearing culture as well. Extend the same courtesy to everyone, deaf or hearing.

i think a more common annoyance is the hearing people who EXPECT a deaf person to speak or lip read. A deaf person should never be forced to communicate using thier mouth or ears. if they choose to, thats thier right....never expect it.

your post, while well-meaning, was rather uninformed. Your on the right track tho

allykat

yah i know, but ive gone to a number of the links people have posted for me and done some more reading and feel a little silly for some of my post, but i was feeling "in the moment" when i wrote it. :stupid:

heres a weird question... ive always wondered why American Sign Language is American... are there other forms? what do they teach in foreign signing schools? is there French sign language, or Spanish? just something i was wondering about.

pek1

The only question, kat, that's silly, is the one that's not asked. There are other forms of sign language, such as SEE, which is Signing Exact English, which is precisely what it sounds like. In other countries, they sign in whatever language is spoken. In France, it would be in FSL (French Sign Language) and so forth. I've never seen the languages signed, but know they don't use asl, which would be worthless to them.

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Pete

Tousi

Pek, your last sentence, while technically correct, applies in the same way for hearing people in that English is pretty universal; same with ASL anymore these days.....more and more deaf foreigners are exposed to ASL and more and more of them use it as there are more opportunities in these modern times for them to use it. Wow, a mouthful so I hope you get my drift rather than me restating it, cos I gotta go, lol.

pek1

Wow! I didn't know this, now I do and stand corrected! Thanks, Tousi!

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Pete

R2D2

Yes, here in Australia many deaf people use Auslan, which is Australian sign language. An Auslan user would be able to communicate reasonably well with a British Sign Language user as many signs are the same or similar and they use the same fingerspelling as well due to historical connections. However, communication with an ASL user would be more difficult, because they are quite different with different fingerspelling mechanisms as well.

Also, I'm not sure if this is true in the US, but in the UK, different cities have their own local signs as well, but that was true of the hearing world in the UK as well. I remember moving house as a child and hearing some new words that I'd never heard before in my new town e.g. my new friends would describe someone in a bad mood as "someone having a mardy." Coming to Australia has again exposed me to a range of words and sayings that I'd never heard before. They call flip flops "thongs", which is the name we give to underwear!

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Liebling:-)))

Great post, allykat. I agree with Shel90 that we need open mind hearing people around here...

Herzlich Willkommen in AD

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kimpossible

hey, am I the only one that's okay with this? Well I think you might not have made your intentions clear or stated it properly. Yeah, asking her how well she can hear/her degree of hearing loss would be a no, especially right off the bat. but it's perfectly acceptable to at least ask someone how you should communicate with them - if they read lips, or if they want you to speak more slowly/clearly, or write on a notepad, etc. But you should at least have a better intention than to just satisfy your curiosity about her hearing loss. if that's all you want to know, i suppose you could just ask her, "hey for future reference, how would you like me to communicate with you?" or something along those lines. but of course, introduce yourself first, common courtesy, small talk, blah blah the whole shebang. I'm sure you already planned on that though.

Kaitin

That might be true, but it is funny. The movie people say to me more is "Children of a Lesser God". Wow, am I sick of hearing about that movie.

Yep, I do. But sometimes the person acting like an idiot is just an idiot. There are weird, funny, obnoxious, stupid hearing people and weird, funny, obnoxious stupid deaf or HoH people. I usually find folks friendly and funny. Or at least I chose to see them this way (who knows what they are actually saying? This is one big advantage to not understanding everything all the time .

About asking someone how much they can hear, I kind of hate that question. It's not offensive, but I don't know how to answer that. I'm not sure what others hear and what I am missing. "Less than you"? "Almost nothing, according to my audiologist"? "It depends on how interesting what is being said"? The conversation is OK or it is not, and everyone can see that. We just work it out (or not) as best we can.

No offense taken, but I'm hard to offend.

Ariakkas

yes, there are lots of other sign languages around the world. ASL is most closely related to french sign language, as this is where ASL was adopted from. In england they may speak the same language americans do, but their sign is completely different.

but just like the same language may be spoken in several different countries, the same sign language may be used as well, it all depends on the area.

J'explique

Well put, Allykat!

I wish there are more people like you, understanding our situations of being deaf. That goes the same to blind, handicapped, endless lists of disabilities. I have seen enough ignorant people all over the country, perhaps all over the world.

Aimra

I had a question about SEE. I have never heard of this before I read it here. Is SEE signing words in the order in which hearies speak english?

I am currently having a little trouble signing in ASL. I keep signing in english order (I guess thats what you would call it?) and have to re-sign things many times (its my first semester though!). I tried to ask my instructor if I would offend a deaf person if I signed in english order instead of ASL. From what I gathered, he said it would be okay but ASL would be preferred. I will learn ASL better as time goes by but until then I know I'll be messing up a lot and mixing up the order of my sentences. How do you all feel about this?

kimpossible

from what I know... basically, yes... but also with things like little words: to, and, the, is, etc. and even adding possessive form to words... like for example if you wanted to sign "kim's hat" you'd fingerspell Kim and do this little apostrophe-S sort of thing, then sign "hat". Well I guess that's one way to put it. Nyeeeeeehh.