je_suis_chic

Why is deafness a culture? And if it is, why isn't blindness, or wheelchair users? we could look at every disability as a culture, so why is deafness so special? Okay, so you have your own language, blind people have Braille... and yes, i said "DISABILITY" why do you get so angry at that word.

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

Disability: A disadvantage or deficiency, especially a physical or mental impairment that interferes with or prevents normal achievement in a particular area.

yes, sir. I would include deafness in there.

Then, the word "impaired". My ASL teacher told me that "hearing impaired" is considered very offensive in the deaf community. Impaired means something is broken, or something does not work. Well, your ears do not work; therefore, they would be "impaired"

Please, help me understand all of this.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Teresh

Braille is not a language in itself so much as another method of rendering written English. Sign languages are legitimate languages. SEE may be little more than a signed version of English, but seriously, how many hearing people understand SEE?


Deaf people may have difficulty getting around in hearing society, but that's precisely why there is Deaf society to begin with. It's easier for deaf/hh/Deaf people to deal with other deaf/hh/Deaf people, just as its easier for hearing people to deal with other hearing people. If the world was predominantly Deaf, would being hearing be a disability?

It is offensive, at least to me. It's implying that the fact that I can't hear well enough to be considered hearing makes me 'inferior'. I say instead, what gives a person who is hearing the right to say to me that I'm supposed to be hearing and that since I'm hard of hearing there is something wrong with me? Living without hearing or with limited hearing is less of an 'impairment' or a 'disability' and more of a way of life, at least for the Deaf. The fact that hearing people continue to qualify those who cannot hear as inferior only strengthens the unity among them.

apathrev

By definition, braille is a language. It is a formal form of communication used to express ideas. Some say ASL is not a real language because it is not a written language.

Many people recognize a deaf culture because with the addition of their own language, deaf society has developed its own customs and values, which is typical of any culture. In my own personal opinion, a subculture is more of a proper term, but thats just my idea.

dkf747

Please explain more. I think you are misunderstanding what a language is.

Are spoken languages without a written form not languages?

Liebling:-)))

Check this link

http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.ph...t=Deaf+culture

__________________

*sniffing you*

Teresh

And the implication that both Hangul and Hanji are different languages, even though they're both Korean. Similarly, the post implies that Katakana, Hiragana and Kanji are alldifferent languages even though they are all Japanese.

apathrev

Definition of language as taken from webster.com

Are you going to tell me that Braille does not fit into this definition?

Teresh

Yes I am. Braille is set of marks which are a method of expressing several languages, including English. It is not a language unto itself but instead a writing system which is used to express one on paper.

From dictionary.com:

Braille (n.) - A system of writing and printing for blind or visually impaired people, in which varied arrangements of raised dots representing letters and numerals are identified by touch.

I don't see the word 'language' in there at all. But just to be doubly sure, I've consulted Wikipedia as well.

According to Wikipedia:
"Braille is a tactile writing system used by blind people. It was invented by Louis Braille of France who was blinded in a childhood accident. At the age of 15 he modified a failed military system for reading orders at night without showing any light (night writing), inventing Braille."

Braille is not a language, as multiple languages (English being one of many) can be rendered in it. Any language that uses the latin alphabet (ie English, French, Spanish, Portugese, Finnish, Swedish, German, Norwegian, Polish, Italian, etc.) can be rendered in braille, just as they can be rendered in the latin alphabet. Surely you're not going to allege that the alphabet is a language? It is a collection of symbols, which when combined with numerals and punctuation produce a written means of the rendering of a particular language. Braille is the same, the only difference being that its intent is to be tactile rather than visual.

apathrev

Whatever.

I still view it as a language. It is a formal system of conveying communication, which to me makes a language.

Teresh

You can 'view it as a language' if you want to, so long as you don't try to disseminate that false belief to other people.

je_suis_chic

That's so random though? where did you get "inferior" from?

je_suis_chic

je_suis_chic

I would call ASL a forum of english. It does have a different sentence structure and things, however; it is englsh.... hence "american" sign language.

je_suis_chic

Teresh

You're implying that there is something wrong with us because we can't hear at the degree that would be classified as 'hearing' by saying that we are 'impaired'. Impaired in what way? Just because dhh ears do not function the way hearing ears do does not mean that there is something wrong with us.


Then you would be wrong. ASL is a complete language unto itself, as it is not English as it lacks a lot of words that exist in English and has a completely different structure of grammar. SEE is English, however. Maybe you should learn what a language is before making such bold and incorrect assertions

je_suis_chic

yes, i am saying there is something wrong with you. exactly. there are 5 sences. when one doesn't work, that's not right. theres something wrong.

Teresh

Maybe there are only four senses and hearing people are just deluding themselves.

In all honesty, I've found dhh people have something hearing people don't have. Strong inborn ESP.

je_suis_chic

umm, sweetie, I don't think that's the case as most people can hear... but i mean, if most people were deaf, I would be the disabled one.

Teresh

Only you wouldn't think you were disabled. Funny how that works. Just because dhh is the minority doesn't mean hearing is any more right or valid. The difference is more a matter of communication and language than one being right or wrong. Are immigrants who don't understand English disabled too?

je_suis_chic

now your just being kocky...

apathrev

Touchy much?

ASL is not a derivative of English. Signs are do not mean specific words, but more of concepts and ideas.

bigdaddyb

This is just plain silly. If part of your body doesn't work right, it's a disability. Changing the name doesn't change the nature of any issue, object, or being. Declaring an impairment that effects a small percentage of the population as 'normal' is what's delusional.

The immigrant question is ridiculous. Hearing isn't just about sound. It effects how one perceives the world around them. It's not a language issue.

The real issue here is this. Does disability = inferiority? No. Only a complete moron makes that assumption. I have a disability. My brain doesn't function the way that 99.999999% of everyone else's does. Yep. I'm different. I have great difficulty in accomplishing things that 99.9999999% of the world finds so easy that they seldom think of it. My wife is HOH. It's a disability. My son has Asperger's. It's a disability.

Disability doesn't change the inherant value of the individual. Playing word games to try and feel better about oneself doesn't work and makes the person look foolish to the rest of the world.

If you're not disabled, you don't need special accomodations. Don't cash the checks, don't accept the equipment subsidies and corporate services/discounts. Otherwise, call it what it is and STILL be proud of who you are and what you can accomplish.

In my time here on AD, I've noticed some things. Some in the deaf community put the hearing world in an no-win position. There are threads that discuss the insult paid when the hearing ignore deaf people, or when the hearing make zero effort to communicate with the deaf. On the other hand, there are threads about how pissed some deaf people get when hearies try to communicate with them.

I'm honestly confused. I've seen extremely polar, diametrically opposed opinions come from the same people. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive here. As a hearie, I'm really confused.

brianb

sr171soars

Very well said and I can't blame you for being confused. I have seen a lot of that in various threads and I totally refuse to get into those discussions for the simple reason that it is asinine. I agree with you that there are schizophrenic viewpoints about how those who are deaf see the world and themselves. They will struggle with this all their lives (even if they get HAs or a CI [like me]). Remember that there are always people with extreme viewpoints and the deaf are no different in that department. At the same time, there are those who have more moderate or balanced viewpoints too. The trick is to not get bogged down in that and take it with a grain of salt.

Teresh

OK, so any group of people that is 'different' from the white, hearing, heteronormative can't be considered 'normal'? Am I the only one that things this is ridiculous? Does 'normal' even exist for it to be compared to?

Yes, it does affect how a person perceives the world. Not questioning that. But the lack of communication and general animosity between Deaf and hearing comes as a result of a language barrier, something neither can easily overcome. It's the same thing with immigrants that don't know English. Only instead of the words 'Deaf' and 'hearing', we use the words 'English' and 'Hispanic', 'English' and 'Hindi' or 'English' and 'Chinese'. Saying that a person is 'hearing impaired' is like saying that hearing is supposted to be right and that anything else is wrong. Are Chinese immigrants 'English impaired'? Are LGB folks 'heterosexually impaired'? Seriously.

I've never accepted anything of the sort with the exception of being loaned an FM system by my university. I've never received any money, subsidies or discounts for the way I am and would not accept any were the offered.

This I actually agree with. Some deafies have a problem with hearies. I don't understand it. Having hearing is one of multiple ways to exist. There's nothing *wrong* with being hearing any more than there is anything *wrong* with being dhh. Hearing people need to stop looking at dhh people as diseased and dhh need to stop looking down on hearing people.