Questions For The Deafies & Hearies Thread --- Cultural Discussion Topic

[signer16]

Originally Posted by Fly Free

ANOTHER question for u hearies! what abt the touching thing -- deafies ALWAYS tend to *tapping shoulders* many hearies ive noticed do not like that -- whats wrong with a lil *shoulder tapping* especially when trying to be polite and ask to get thru -- u get what im saying qq ive noticed hearies BALK at that and im like relax! im only trying to get ur attention no big deal! *step back*

I never really thought about it, until I tapped someone to get their attention in history class last year, and she looked at me and said "DON'T hit me!" I said, "I'm sorry, I was just trying to get your attention," she said again "DON'T HIT me!" I said, "I didn't mean to hit you, I was just trying to get ur attention." She said, "Bitch, DON'T HIT ME."
I just let it go. I realized though, if I hadn't been taking sign, immersed in deaf culture, etc. I would have just said her name rather than tapped her. I don't know, some people are just really sensitive.

Besides eye contact and tapping, there are a lot of other differences between the two cultures. When to hug someone, when it is okay to go into someone's house, (w/out knocking, doorbell, etc.) what to tell someone when you leave a room (bathroom, leaving, etc.), and how much to ask about difficult situations (death, divorce, etc.). Deaf seem to be a lot more open than hearies. It can get confusing when what is nice or polite in one culture in rude in another!

[Codger]

May I ask a question back without starting a new thread? I think it fits here. How do you, a deafie, handle a situation where a person ...stranger, coworker, customer, family member, neighbor, clerk, has to be informed that you are deaf and they give you a condecending smile, then either A. continue trying to talk to you as if you had not said that or B. they give you "the smile" then walk away giving up on an attempt to communicate. ???????

I am late deafened and this is one of the things I am contending with. I get really angry but internalize it.

[AvengedSevenfol]

i dunno about other hearies, but it really bothers me when people i don't know touch me. even someone tapping my shoulder , i would never be rude about it, i would keep it in and be polite, but i would rather they say my name, or in the case of deaf people, just orally get my attention.

it literally drives me up the wall when im at a basketball game or something and someone uses my shoulder to get up to the next level, makes me feel like ima jump out of my skin.

as for the eye contact, levonian made a good point...there's only so much eye contact that is socially acceptable. in the case of blockbuster, people may have been out on dates, and anything more than an occasional glace while you waiting in line and you'd prolly end up watching the movie alone.

theres a fine line to walk, appear confident, but not aggresive.....appear grounded but not timid....express your interest, but don't appear over-zealous.

[Reba]

I don't mind taps on the shoulder. I guess I have been around deafies enough that doesn't bother me.

The thing I have to work at is the hugging. I am originally a CT Yankee, and hugging was reserved for close family. Now I live in the South, and deafies and hearies both are huggers. I always respond warmly to hugs (not to offend), but I feel awkward about initiating hugs.

[Levonian]

Originally Posted by signer16

I tapped someone to get their attention in history class last year, and she looked at me and said "DON'T hit me!" I said, "I'm sorry, I was just trying to get your attention," she said again "DON'T HIT me!" I said, "I didn't mean to hit you, I was just trying to get ur attention." She said, "Bitch, DON'T HIT ME."

Sounds like somebody needs to have their medication levels checked.

[frank]

Hello everyone, my first post. I'm a hearie and just happened to come across this thread -- interesting! I have to agree with other people who have mentioned the enormously complex area of eye contact. I never thought it would be so different for hearies and deafies, but it makes sense the more I think about it. I have had a speech problem my whole life, it was deblilitating and traumatic when I was a kid and it never went away entirely but I've learned to deal with it and actually speak in front of groups for a living now, but between you and me it's like balancing plates to get it to all to come out smoothly sometimes. Anyway, having this condition my entire life, there are infinite subconscious "solutions" I've come across over the years. Words or sounds I have trouble saying can often be substituted with other words. For example, I have serious trouble with the "k" sound at the beginning of a sentence, so there was a record store I used to live by where I would ask to listen to a CD before I bought it. Unable to say "can I listen to this" without going "kkkkkkkkkkan I listen to this" yet "may I listen to this" always seemed too nerdy at this place, so I'd say "I need to listen to this" --which I found out the hard way was rude. I couldn't say the word "apartment" without saying "aaaaaaaapartment" to the guy buildng our fence so I said "flat" -- and I'm not European LOL . What I'm trying to suggest is that being deaf, you've probably developed enormously complex "solutions" of your own, and of those is the expectation that people always politely face each other when they speak, since that's what deafies apparently do(?), but in many, many, many situations for hearies, that's totally innapropriate. One second of extra eye contact could mean everything from "I'm turned on by you" to "how could you say that" to "what the #$%^ are you doing" to "I don't understand" to "I'm drunk" to "let's fight" and on and on and on depending on the circumstances. The same could be said for tapping people on the shoulders, in most situations that's considered invading someone's personal space and even hostile, especially the more urban you get. You just don't know where those fingers have been in a big city and no one wants to take any chances. I go to great lengths just to keep my hands from touching anything in the mens bathroom, strange fingers touching me without my permission automatically puts me in a defensive position although I'd immediately react friendly if I found it was a deaf person and they meant nothing by it. I also agree with the eyes into the soul concept some people have mentioned earlier.

But to answer the original question at the video store, I think that specific situation has more to do with everyone is bored, slightly irritated for having to wait, and everyone is looking for anything, and I mean anything to divert their attention from the reality of waiting in a long boring line. It is at this time that "chit chat" takes the stage. Inane, verbal vomit I now think you deafies have the enviable pleasure of missing out on some of the time. We hearies know how stupid it sounds and if it begins to happen we want to hush our voices and avoid drawing attention to ourselves or they'll hear how stupid we can sound. And being in the vulnerable position where smashed gum on the carpet is more interesting than that line, sometimes it's best not to say anything.

A gift of my lifelong speech problem, and the enormously complex way I've learned to adapt to it, is a unique, almost autistically keen sense of pronunciation and when I try, have a pretty good command of the English language if I say so myself. I've heard my pronunciation of German leaves an accent almost undetectable by native speakers, yet my grammar is below pre-school level. So I hope some of you are picking up the subtle nuances this different perspective is giving you, and the edge it could provide you in the business world, among other things.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Fly Free

I had been at blockbusters recently and was standing in this MASSIVELY long line so i took the opportunity to observe the hearie in their behaviors --

why do u hearies seem to prefer talking without LOOKING at the person who is talking to u -- wouldnt that be a bit more polite if u were looking at the person to show that u were actually listening to him/her qq

can u guys explain this qq

if any of u deafies have something else for hte hearies FIRE AWAY!!!!!

as a hearing person specially growing up in a family where everyone can hear.. eye contact isn't really something that we are taught to do when talking to someone (cuz its not realy needed since the person can hear you without you looking at them) my parents for one.. taught me that yes looking a person in the eye while talking to them is a sign of respect (but sometimes i find myself looking away because i feel i'm being judged.. or i'm staring at the person who is talking to me) so.. its not like we "preffer" not to look at the person while they speak ..i just never learned that looking at the person is really important.... but then again..i'm used to it now (since my boyfriend is deaf) so it bugs me a lot when someone isn't looking at me when they speak to me.. to sum it all up ..hearing people don't look at hearing people when they speak not because they lack the respect..they just take it for granted..and most likely don't find as much importance or put too much significance in the action...

[Vance]

Originally Posted by Fly Free

if any of u deafies have something else for hte hearies FIRE AWAY!!!!!

to insert the humor in this topic:

if any of you, hearies fart in the quiet public, can you hear your own fart?

[Levonian]

Well, I have single-sided deafness—which means I can hear, but I can’t tell which direction a sound is coming from. So if I fart in public, the only way I can tell it’s mine is by the vibration.

[Y]

Yeah, 2 Questions:
I always wondered if you hearies
can hear other people's fart ? (instead of your own fart)

and When you hear that kind of
fart somewhere behind your back,
can you identify if that kind of fart
came from a male or a female ? etc....
Do fart from all kinds of people
all sound the same or different ?
Are there any different kind of fart sounds ?
Please describe. Thanks !

[AvengedSevenfol]

hearies don't fart in public, occasianally it happens of course, and yes we can hear em. and yes its a huge embarrassment that the person usually tries to pass it off as someone else(which NEVER works) or they leave the area immediately.

and no, you can't tell the different between a male and female fart, they sound the same.

theres differnet kinds...theres silent ones, loud ones, ones that sound wet...one that sound like a helicopter is flying over head...ones that sound like the air being let out of a baloon...ones that sound like a high pitched whistle.....

[Codger]

Lol! Yes, they come in all types. Mine in public are "Orphans", that is they have no pop. It takes years of dedicated practice and control to do this! It seems that women are better at containing them, just as they have better control over scratching an itch in public. Squeekers, flappers, bronx cheer, poppers, there are many diferent sounds. Some very famous writers have writen on the subject of flatulence. A google search might turn up some of these. Passing the blame is an age old tradition. Leaving a "scent trap" in the aisle at Wal-mart for the next shopper is a new variation on an old theme it seems. Just be sure to not be caught watching and laughing!

[Oceanbreeze]

Okay, you all have had waaaay toooo much fun with the "fart" topic in here...Now, it's time to get serious again!

I was wondering to anyone who can answer this...

How many different types of deafness is there?

Thanks!

[SilverRoxy]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Okay, you all have had waaaay toooo much fun with the "fart" topic in here...Now, it's time to get serious again!

I was wondering to anyone who can answer this...

How many different types of deafness is there?

Thanks!

There are a few different types of hearing loss: conductive, sensory, mixed (conductive and sensory combined), and neural.

Conductive (say: kun-duk-tiv) hearing loss: This happens when there is a problem with a part of the outer or middle ear. Most kids with conductive hearing loss have a mild hearing loss and it is usually temporary because in most cases medical treatment can help.

Sensory (say: sen-suh-ree) hearing loss: This happens when the cochlea is not working correctly because the tiny hair cells are damaged or destroyed. Depending on the loss, a kid may be able to hear most sounds (although they would be muffled); only some sounds; or no sounds at all. Sensory hearing impairment is almost always permanent and a kid's ability to talk normally may be affected.

Neural (say: nur-ul) hearing loss: This happens when there is a problem with the connection from the cochlea to the brain. Neural means related to nerve, so neural hearing loss means the nerve that carries the messages from the cochlea to the brain is damaged.

I found this information on internet. I hope this helps.

[Angel]

Great thread you created there FlyFree

My ex husband does the same thing, everytime he talks to me, he would be looking down or somewhere else, I have asked him serveral times why he wouldn't look at me when he talks to me, he said it just a habit of doing so, and I noticed he does the same thing to his family and his friends, good thing it wasn't because my deafness, it was more of how he is when he talks to others....so I believe that why others do it as well too, they just too busy to look up to the customers or they are just plain bored who knows....LOL

[ITPjohn]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I was wondering to anyone who can answer this...
How many different types of deafness is there?
Thanks!

Oceanbreeze

There's also terms to describe when a person went deaf:
prelingual - before they learned any speech
postlingual - after they learned speech. May remember some sounds.

A good book for basic information is "For Hearing People Only" by the people who publish "Deaf Life". Hope this helps.

[SpiceHD]

Im curious... often i noticed a person would talk to a wall and they dont act like they were yelling or something.. i would go searching for who that person was tlaking to then found out another person was in other room?!? why talk to a wall!? lol

2nd thing... i heard about "tones" how do u do them? and is it easy to put "tones" in voices? i heard tones is like expressions... when a deaf get sooo mad... they shows it....in expression but not like breaking anything or whatever.. but when a hear person get sooooo mad they talk quietly but theres definitely a tone in it. (i was talking about an example i remembered when i was in hearing high school for a semeter and the teacher was trying to calm kids down but didnt success... then he used that kind of tone and all of sudden all kids quiet down and i also remember at deaf school when a principal was yelling at a classroom which i happened to be in too *whistles* principal was calm too but the expressions shows she was truly truly mad)

also... i notice at comedy shows... the comedian would say a stupid joke and the whole audience would laugh their ass off and people who were watching it with me would laugh too but i didnt see any humor in it. i asked one time about why it is so funny they said its just in their voice. what that means?

[Codger]

It may be that the person talking to the person on the other side of the wall could hear them and they could hear her/him. Or it could be that they were talking on a speaker phone. My wife can hear our kids through the walls.

Tones are very important to verbal communication. A few years ago, I was a process engineer in a factory. This was before my hearing loss was so apparent to others. An engineering clerk complained to the engineering manager that I had been abusive to her. I was at a loss as to what to say. It seems that my tone of voice conveyed something other than what I intended. I had simply asked her to make a shipping label for me. She said she did not know what I needed. I sketched it on a sheet of paper and gave it to her. She became defensive, so I just said that it was ok, I'd do it myself and that I had thought she had made them before. So it was some harshness in my tone that set her off.

With the comedian, perhaps they were using a mocking tone, using a voice other than their own, or maybe a cartoonish voice. Different tones can denote a wide range of emotion. Not all of them are easily discerned by seeing a facial expression.

I don't know if I answered your questions, but I tried!

[Reba]

It is difficult to describe vocal "tone" to someone who has no hearing experience or memory. It is kind of like trying to describe "colors" to someone who has been blind since birth.

[SpiceHD]

do deaf people have tones? sorry for dumb question :-/

[Codger]

Not a dumb question at all Spice. Some do, particularly if they have hearing memory. It tends to be exagerated ( not as subtile) as with hearies. That is, I suspect, a part of my problem. A tone indicating mild irritation or impatience, like I described in the above situation, is percieved differently than intended. Deafies tend to replace these tones with facial expressions and body language. Hmmmmm.... think of it as illustrations in a book. You can change the pictures and greatly change how the reader percieves the words, though the words remain the same.

[SpiceHD]

then maybe i dont have tones? cuz i remmeber few times when i was trying to get someone attention and i tried to voice my dad in a way that i meant business i want his attention now... he didnt even respond till i screamed right in his ear.. then he fell off the chair and yelled at me. so i assume i dont have tones :-P (and no hes definitely is not deaf.... since hearing people tend to get his attention much easier than i do lol)

also is it possible for me to have tones in my voice or is it something u develop while u were a toddler?

[Reba]

Originally Posted by Codger

Not a dumb question at all Spice. Some do, particularly if they have hearing memory. It tends to be exagerated ( not as subtile) as with hearies. That is, I suspect, a part of my problem. A tone indicating mild irritation or impatience, like I described in the above situation, is percieved differently than intended. Deafies tend to replace these tones with facial expressions and body language....

I think part of the reason that Deaf vocal "tones" might seem exagerated to hearing people is because the Deaf person can't hear his own voice, therefore has no "feedback" for regulating the tone. The same problem with Deaf voice volume. Too loud or too soft because there is no audio feedback.

[Codger]

Originally Posted by Reba

I think part of the reason that Deaf vocal "tones" might seem exagerated to hearing people is because the Deaf person can't hear his own voice, therefore has no "feedback" for regulating the tone. The same problem with Deaf voice volume. Too loud or too soft because there is no audio feedback.

Exactly Reba. As my hearing loss progresses, I am loosing the ability to judge my own voice tones and level. I can still hear myself speak through the bones in my head, but the ability to detect and regulate the tone and volume is greatly reduced.

Walter, a deafie friend I worked with years ago, had no hearing memory. He constantly worked on his speech with me as I gave him permission to touch my throat and his while we "talked". He tried to match the vibrations. It did help him control volume and understand a bit better about tones when the same word is repeated as a whisper, a low stern voice, and on up the scale to an angry shout.

[Oceanbreeze]

I was wondering what SEE is?

[Y]

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

I was wondering what SEE is?

SEE means Signing Exact English

[Y]

SpiceHD, there are no such dumb questions...

I think I understand what u mean by tones...
Everyone including deafies do have tones...

But, the problem is how to control/adjust tones
in an effortless way.

Many deafies (especially who
do NOT have hearing memory)
can NOT control/adjust their tones
as good as hearies especially with
emotions. For example, there were at times
when I did NOT want this hearing person to
know that I'm upset about something,
I made every effort to hide
my own emotions while talking
but unfortunately this hearing person
already knew or can tell (identify) that
I felt "upset" only because they can hear
my own voice tones. Then,
I realize that I cannot control/adjust my tones that well
as a deaf person myself. Even though
people said that I speak very well.

For example, I cannot hear my own voice at all
but I even know how to change
my normal voice tone to
VERY high pitch tone,
but I still cannot change it
to MEDIUM high or lower high.
That's the problem with control tones...
I wish that I can control/adjust and change it
slowly from normal tone to low high,
then to medium high, then to very high
or back to low tone or very low tone....

The only times I tend to use that
VERY high pitch tone only for fun
when I sing "Happy Birthday"
to my hearing family members
because they knew I always do that
for fun and birthday spirits only...

Sorry for making this too long, I was
hoping to make this shorter ...

[SpiceHD]

np Y! you answered my question anyway i alway have been wondering about tones and some behaviors that hearings have ... those stuff are something i will never understand i suppose... since i have been deaf since i was a baby so i donthave any memory of hearing noises at all... but i have a bit more clear understanding i think

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by SpiceHD

np Y! you answered my question anyway i alway have been wondering about tones and some behaviors that hearings have ... those stuff are something i will never understand i suppose... since i have been deaf since i was a baby so i donthave any memory of hearing noises at all... but i have a bit more clear understanding i think

Spice,
Hearies talk to people in other rooms all the time....not necessarily polite, but it happens. In part of our building, there is a section that has dividers in the room. People in one area will talk to the people in the other area. If you were deaf, you'd wonder why people were at their computer just talking

As for tone, I would compare it to expressions, although Reba nailed with trying to explain colors to the blind. One example comes to mind that can get deafies into trouble. (I uses this as an example because a friend was pointing out cultural differences to me)...the term 'F*** You'. Sometimes you say it jokingly to a friend or you say it with authority to an enemy. I'm told that some hearies are offended when a deaf person says this becuase it can easily be taken out of context. Well same for the hearing. From the 'tone' of my voice, one would be able to tell if I was joking with a friend or speaking to an enemy.

There are a lot of other examples and that probably isn't the most polite to use but it shows the difference. Just as you could tell my meaning by an expression, a hearie could tell my meaning by the tone in my voice.

Another example that comes to mind is a question. Take the words 'It Is' If I say it in a flat tone with no fluctuation, it means I'm making a statement, such as answering a question.

"The sky is blue" The reply would be 'It is' but it would be flat as I'm saying this in agreement with the speaker.

Now, if I curve my sound up at the end (again, explaining colors to the blind), it would become a question.
"The sky is blue" and the reply "It Is?" With the 'Is' being a little higher in tone. Just that change in tone, the same two words have gone from a statement into a question.

[Tousi]

Taylor said.....
"The sky is blue" The reply would be 'It is' but it would be flat as I'm saying this in agreement with the speaker."

Now, if Taylor had made that statement to me, I'd say, "No shit, dude!?"