Petition against "dirty signs" book publishing - Page 7

**KarissaMann05** · 07-06-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Just pointing out a historical fact. I do believe that signing is primarily used by many deaf and hh people but certainly they do not own it any more than Indians own sign language as part of their own historical heritage that continues to today albeit nearly gone. :/ Sign language is for everybody to use, even among those who cannot speak but hear, those with autism (see Sign Language and Autism – Teaching Child Signing to Children Who Are Autistic) and even among hearing babies and parents where sign language allow babies/toddlers to communicate. To say that deaf people own sign language is being selfish and delusional to even push that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambrosia

I think you a very good point kononut. How can any group of people "own" a language? They teach languages in schools, here in America the teacher's 1st language is English, but they teach French, Spanish, German etc etc. In other countries they teach English, I'd be willing to bet good money that the teachers teaching English to their students in say Germany or Japan their 1st language is not English. Do you see about bunch of British and Americans crying that they're teaching "our" language to people? That only English speaking people should be teaching it? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

I totally agree that there should be a board with deaf people on it to ensure standards that are taught, but that deaf people "own" it? That's a little far fetched if you ask me.

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

**saywhatkid** · 07-06-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

This whole thing kind of reminds me of a white guy that talks in ebonics. It just doesn't work.

Tousi · 07-06-2012, 08:22 PM

And its not gonna work even though this gal has the right to do this kind of thing. The objection is in her exploitation and all the while she's even puts disclaimers in her vids that she's basically a beginner, a novice. So why doesn't this publisher she supposedly has contact a native deaf ASLer to publish this book?

**KarissaMann05** · 07-06-2012, 08:28 PM

You know what?

NEVER MIND.

I should know better because ASL is not really important to you guys, anyway.

ambrosia · 07-06-2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

How is ASL going to be distorted by this one book? Do you actually think all of a sudden everybody's going to be walking around swearing in ASL? puhlease
A very insignificant amount of people will actually buy this book. The vast majority of people are going to be very uninterested in it. The Deaf, obviously, are very interested in ASL, the hearing people? No they don't care, it's not an issue, they have to worry about it, they don't think about it, they're not interested in it. I don't know if I can stress the words insignificant amount of people enough. Well I'll bold the insignificant part, that'll have to do.

The ones that do buy it? It will be a novelty, they'll use it for a few weeks and forget about it, then they'll rarely use it. Example...I can sign "bullshit" but if I'm going to say it, I just say it....unless I was standing behind someone that was lying and wanted to let whoever they were talking to know it, but no the person actually lying lol. I've shown other "hearies" how to sign it, know when they use it? never. I know swear words in Spanish, and I can't remember the last time I actually used them, this is pretty much the norm for people that know swears in other languages. They'll stick with the good ol familiar.

This book will have no effect on your life, or any deaf person's life. ever

I have that scene from Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail in my head again. Help I'm being repressed, did you see that? Did you see him repressing me? I've been pretty much deaf for the last 10 years, ain't nobody ever tried to "keep me down". 100 years ago, I could totally feel that. 2012? not so much. I can't speak about other countries but in America..if life is hard for the hearing impaired, it's because they're dealing with something that sucks ass and makes day to day activities harder than for the average joe, not because someone is trying to make it harder.

**Bottesini** · 07-06-2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambrosia

How is ASL going to be distorted by this one book? Do you actually think all of a sudden everybody's going to be walking around swearing in ASL? puhlease
A very insignificant amount of people will actually buy this book. The vast majority of people are going to be very uninterested in it. The Deaf, obviously, are very interested in ASL, the hearing people? No they don't care, it's not an issue, they have to worry about it, they don't think about it, they're not interested in it. I don't know if I can stress the words insignificant amount of people enough. Well I'll bold the insignificant part, that'll have to do.

The ones that do buy it? It will be a novelty, they'll use it for a few weeks and forget about it, then they'll rarely use it. Example...I can sign "bullshit" but if I'm going to say it, I just say it....unless I was standing behind someone that was lying and wanted to let whoever they were talking to know it, but no the person actually lying lol. I've shown other "hearies" how to sign it, know when they use it? never. I know swear words in Spanish, and I can't remember the last time I actually used them, this is pretty much the norm for people that know swears in other languages. They'll stick with the good ol familiar.

This book will have no effect on your life, or any deaf person's life. ever

I have that scene from Monty Python's Search for the Holy Grail in my head again. Help I'm being repressed, did you see that? Did you see him repressing me? I've been pretty much deaf for the last 10 years, ain't nobody ever tried to "keep me down". 100 years ago, I could totally feel that. 2012? not so much. I can't speak about other countries but in America..if life is hard for the hearing impaired, it's because they're dealing with something that sucks ass and makes day to day activities harder than for the average joe, not because someone is trying to make it harder.

It's because you are late deafened that you have this perspective.

ambrosia · 07-06-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

And its not gonna work even though this gal has the right to do this kind of thing. The objection is in her exploitation and all the while she's even puts disclaimers in her vids that she's basically a beginner, a novice. So why doesn't this publisher she supposedly has contact a native deaf ASLer to publish this book?

exactly! But I would have to say because she went to the publisher, not the other way around, pretty sure publishing houses don't actively recruit like that, not for 2 bit writers anyway. But absolutely if a Deaf person that can "properly" swear fluently in ASL wrote a book on it, they could totally do that.

**KarissaMann05** · 07-06-2012, 08:49 PM

Let me make it clear. I am not talking about HER BOOK that effects it. I am talking about HOW THEY handle the ASL.

By the way, I want to add something that is not related what I said...

"you [Kristin] are simply exploiting deaf people & deaf culture for internet popularity. and now that St. Martin's is intending to publish your smutty signs book, you are also exploiting us for financial gain. that's awful!" -- Victoria

That is something I can't accept what she did.

ambrosia · 07-06-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

It's because you are late deafened that you have this perspective.

My perspective that this book won't do lasting damage to ASL, or that I don't feel oppressed? Both? I'm sure you're right and agree on both counts, because I can only speak from experience. As someone who spent at least 20 years anyway with perfect hearing, and is still totally involved in the hearing world, I can guarantee that not many hearing people are going to be interested in this book and are going to waking around botchedly (I just invented that word it's mine now

) swearing in ASL. Now you might get more young Deaf people interested it. And as far as the oppression goes, I've never had anyone be anything but helpful and understanding. Before I got my aids I got treated like I was stupid sometimes because I had to say what a lot. But after the ass, and yes they were asses, found out I couldn't hear them they felt contrite, embarrassed and apologetic. But still, that's different from oppression, imo

ambrosia · 07-06-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Let me make it clear. I am not talking about HER BOOK that effects it. I am talking about HOW THEY handle the ASL.

By the way, I want to add something that is not related what I said...

"you [Kristin] are simply exploiting deaf people & deaf culture for internet popularity. and now that St. Martin's is intending to publish your smutty signs book, you are also exploiting us for financial gain. that's awful!" -- Victoria

That is something I can't accept what she did.

okay, that I can totally agree with. But I think spreading the word about the fact the book exists, or will exist, will do more harm than good. It's just going to actually increase interest in her while if she was ignored she's fall by the wayside that much faster.

kokonut · 07-06-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Good grief.

What do you think you or those people will have a right to distort our ASL into something just because "no one own" it? Do you realize ASL is the language of an oppressed minority, don't you?

I believe people are entitled to write a book and publish it as they see fit. I also said that by doing so exposes some of them to be the idiots they are in the process, too. In this thread we discussed two examples of those.

**saywhatkid** · 07-06-2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I believe people are entitled to write a book and publish it as they see fit. I also said that by doing so exposes some of them to be the idiots they are in the process, too. In this thread we discussed two examples of those.

You support racist groups (KKK, Aryan Nation) publishing racially derogatory books for the public to buy?

kokonut · 07-06-2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saywhatkid

You support racist groups (KKK, Aryan Nation) publishing racially derogatory books for the public to buy?

I support freedom of the press, expression and speech. Huckleberry Finn is considered a racist and even derogatory book of its time by some people. It's all about context and the content written. There are limits, of course, but we have to be careful when we go there.

**Jiro** · 07-07-2012, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

I support freedom of the press, expression and speech. Huckleberry Finn is considered a racist and even derogatory book of its time by some people. It's all about context and the content written. There are limits, of course, but we have to be careful when we go there.

then don't you believe Kristin Henson should be careful and not cross the line?

Grummer · 07-07-2012, 06:37 AM

...and according to jiro's observation, one might say kristen is a psychopath too

kokonut · 07-07-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grummer

...and according to jiro's observation, one might say kristen is a psychopath too

Definition:

a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

I reserve that term for the true haters like extreme racist groups, killers, and sociopaths. Kristen is just plainly an ignorant person.

**KarissaMann05** · 07-07-2012, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

then don't you believe Kristin Henson should be careful and not cross the line?

I thought the same thing, too.

Grummer · 07-07-2012, 05:21 PM

me too, it's So obvious!!

**Jiro** · 07-07-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

Definition:

a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

I reserve that term for the true haters like extreme racist groups, killers, and sociopaths. Kristen is just plainly an ignorant person.

and for liberals, Democrats, and Obama too?

MissLady · 07-08-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambrosia

. How can any group of people "own" a language? They teach languages in schools, here in America the teacher's 1st language is English, but they teach French, Spanish, German etc etc. In other countries they teach English, I'd be willing to bet good money that the teachers teaching English to their students in say Germany or Japan their 1st language is not English. Do you see about bunch of British and Americans crying that they're teaching "our" language to people? That only English speaking people should be teaching it? Of course not, that's ridiculous.

I totally agree that there should be a board with deaf people on it to ensure standards that are taught, but that deaf people "own" it? That's a little far fetched if you ask me.

This really burns me. Deaf people DO own ASL; it is their language! People who speak English do get agitated when people botch the English language (foreigners, for example). Think about Grammar Nazis. Think about how many comedy routines revolve around fake accents with botched English pronunciation. People are very proud of their respective languages; remember it is the language through which you learn about the world, your life, your culture, even yourself. Your own thoughts are communicated via your language.

English is a bad analogy, because it has truly become the language of the Internet and a lingua franca. So many people know English that we can't really stake a claim on it. I would think a better, more effective analogy might be the Native American languages that are and have been dying out. As someone of Native American ancestry, I know that only a few people really know the language. I would be offended and appalled if someone came in, learned a few choice words and decided that they would publish a book on that.

Remember that the Deaf world has often been oppressed. The language of ASL was often the only thing Deaf people really had a say over on their lives; it was and still is their language. I still feel that as a hearing person, I am not allowed to create signs. I can engage in dialogue regarding signs and specific sign choices and what could be more appropriate in a specific situation, but at the end of the day, I match my Deaf consumer and honor and respect them enough to be guardians and creators of the language. It's their language!!!!

**TXgolfer** · 07-08-2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissLady

This really burns me. Deaf people DO own ASL; it is their language! People who speak English do get agitated when people botch the English language (foreigners, for example). Think about Grammar Nazis. Think about how many comedy routines revolve around fake accents with botched English pronunciation. People are very proud of their respective languages; remember it is the language through which you learn about the world, your life, your culture, even yourself. Your own thoughts are communicated via your language.

English is a bad analogy, because it has truly become the language of the Internet and a lingua franca. So many people know English that we can't really stake a claim on it. I would think a better, more effective analogy might be the Native American languages that are and have been dying out. As someone of Native American ancestry, I know that only a few people really know the language. I would be offended and appalled if someone came in, learned a few choice words and decided that they would publish a book on that.

Remember that the Deaf world has often been oppressed. The language of ASL was often the only thing Deaf people really had a say over on their lives; it was and still is their language. I still feel that as a hearing person, I am not allowed to create signs. I can engage in dialogue regarding signs and specific sign choices and what could be more appropriate in a specific situation, but at the end of the day, I match my Deaf consumer and honor and respect them enough to be guardians and creators of the language. It's their language!!!!

Ziva botches English every week on NCIS..... Never heard anyone complain about it.

And Native American languages....yeah nobody ever botches those, Kimosabe. Hau!

kokonut · 07-08-2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

Ziva botches English every week on NCIS..... Never heard anyone complain about it.

And Native American languages....yeah nobody ever botches those, Kimosabe. Hau!

Well, many deaf Indians had their own sign language but were forced to learn ASL.

Quote:

A few years back I did a blog how one kind of American Indian Sign Language (ISL) used by deaf native American Indians was already vanishing (or it may have vanished by now) because, ironically so, young deaf Native American Indians were forced to use or in this case had no recourse but to communicate in ASL at deaf residential schools they were sent to. And by doing so they gradually lost an important identity and Indian heritage when Indian Sign Language was passed on down through generations. A sign language that was used by both deaf and hearing Indians within their own community or tribe. This disappearance was an unplanned but systematic move over time by a predominately white Deaf culture and community where ASL gradually overtook their ISL preferences even though historically many of the signs in ASL today were derived from or have similar signs seen in Native American ISL.

Below is a passage on how ASL (supposedly the 3rd or 4th most popular language in the U.S. - a highly dubious claim.), English (number one language in the U.S.), and American Deaf culture have helped erode the Keresan Pueblo Indian Sign Language (KPISL) in New Mexico into extinction already. A native Indian sign language used by both deaf and hearing Keresan Pueblo indians.

Quote:

KPISL is not much used among the pueblo’s younger generation owing to their learning school English, ASL, or signs that follow the spoken English word order. Before the 1990s, American Indian Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing tribal members usually left home to attend a residential school for the deaf located far away. At the school, there was usually no formal instruction of American Indian or American Indian culture and signs; only Deaf culture and ASL were taught, leading many American Indian students to join the “Deaf World.” After graduation, the students had to make difficult decisions about where and how to establish themselves: on the pueblos with hearing families and friends, in urban areas with other Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing people, or in border towns with limited access to both groups.

English has now become the dominant language for many Pueblo Indians. Its use, as well as continued contact with and influences of the dominant culture, has served to erode some of the traditions and values of the Pueblo Indian culture. As a result, KPISL, a valuable piece of American Indian heritage, may be slipping into extinction as well.

Kokonut Pundit: The Eugenics of Deaf Indian Sign Language and culture through ASL?

Kokonut Pundit: ASL is Destroying Indian Sign Language?

We know that the native American Indian tribes and their culture throughout the U.S. were essentially but systematically "eliminated" in favor of having them integrate into a predominately white culture and English language. By the same token we see the same eery but ironic similarity when the eradication of the Keresan Pueblo Indian Sign Language was done with the help of a predominantly white Deaf culture in favor of ASL. Talk about the "oppressed" oppressing the most oppressed deaf culture there is with its own sign language forced to abandon it by deaf and hearing cultures.

**KarissaMann05** · 07-08-2012, 11:22 PM

Oh boy. Now, we are "evil Whites" who stole ISL from Indians, so we all are the responsible for their dying languages.

What a bullshit. Do you realize it is mainly because of governments' doings, not the Deaf community? I mean, look at America History.

No, you know what? Never mind. It is our fault, all right. If that is what you feel so better about it, so whatever.

Good riddance.

**TXgolfer** · 07-08-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Oh boy. Now, we are "evil Whites" who stole ISL from Indians, so we all are the responsible for their dying languages.

What a bullshit. Do you realize it is mainly because of governments' doings, not the Deaf community? I mean, look at America History.

No, you know what? Never mind. It is our fault, all right. If that is what you feel so better about it, so whatever.

Good riddance.

No, the point is.....people misspeak and and misuse languages all the time....sometimes they even parody languages. Just look at the way the Go Go Gophers cartoon or F Troop made fun of Indians....or even Mel Brooks in Blazzin Saddles.

Point is it happens to everyone....no need to get so upset.

Bebonang · 07-08-2012, 11:33 PM

I don't think we, Native Americans - hearing and deaf, don't own native sign language. But with many dialects of different native languages that we were depending on signing to be able to communicate when trading or trying to understand them to make peace. As for the Deaf Native Americans, we need sign language to help us understand more clearly than spoken languages. It is important to have sign language whether in Indian Sign Language or ASL.

Right now it is already combined with the French sign language to some of the Native sign language. So now it is universal like from West coast to East coast, United States and Canada including some in Central America. I don't know about Mexico but they have their own sign language to communicate. Don't ever mock our sign language whether Natives use sign language just because they never botches.

The white people took away from our spoken native languages that we tried to keep in our tradition. The whites changed all that for us. So this is the reason why hearing Natives had to be forced to speak English just like the Deaf people have been forced to speak spoken English. Now our Indian sign language is almost completely gone because of that and ASL have been trying to be eliminated by the Alexander Graham Bell so that we can lipread and speak like normal people. Ha! What a laugh that it is really us be oppressed that has tormented us trying to understand in the hearing world. That is why we need ASL between white people and people of colors so that we can communicate each other. Times have changed and there is no way to go back the way it was before. If you can find a book on Indian sign language, then that is good but you probably will not be interest in it anymore.

Bebonang · 07-08-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

No, the point is.....people misspeak and and misuse languages all the time....sometimes they even parody languages. Just look at the way the Go Go Gophers cartoon or F Troop made fun of Indians....or even Mel Brooks in Blazzin Saddles.

Point is it happens to everyone....no need to get so upset.

Most movies and television series like the F Troop gave us a bad names that we are savages and dumb like as if we were children. They misconceived us what we were like that back then. The way hearing natives spoke were talking in their dialects and the whites mock them over their speaking languages. Many of us can not speak like the whites do. This is the way we speak in our native languages. Dialects did that the way we spoke.

A lot of white hearing people don't understand why the hearing natives can not talk like them. As for the Deaf native people, that was bad enough to try to make our speech come out like white people especially white d/Deaf people had a hard time to pronounce the words. So get lost, TXgolfer!

kokonut · 07-08-2012, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Oh boy. Now, we are "evil Whites" who stole ISL from Indians, so we all are the responsible for their dying languages.

What a bullshit. Do you realize it is mainly because of governments' doings, not the Deaf community? I mean, look at America History.

No, you know what? Never mind. It is our fault, all right. If that is what you feel so better about it, so whatever.

Good riddance.

How come Deaf schools at the time never bothered to help ensure that these Deaf Indians preserve their ISL and encourage the continued use of it by keeping in contact with their tribes and elders on maintaining their ISL identity? Sure, govt played a role. A big one but while they were over at the schools they never gotten any support to ensure that their ISL and culture continue to thrive. In fact, the problem was they were forced to choose between ISL and ASL. Kind of ironic considering people were screaming how ASL is becoming extinct but take a blind eye on what happened to some of the deaf Indians own ISL that have virtually disappeared.

Bebonang · 07-08-2012, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

How come Deaf schools at the time never bothered to help ensure that these Deaf Indians preserve their ISL and encourage the continued use of it by keeping in contact with their tribes and elders on maintaining their ISL identity? Sure, govt played a role. A big one but while they were over at the schools they never gotten any support to ensure that their ISL and culture continue to thrive. In fact, the problem was they were forced to choose between ISL and ASL. Kind of ironic considering people were screaming how ASL is becoming extinct but take a blind eye on what happened to some of the deaf Indians own ISL that have virtually disappeared.

**KarissaMann05** · 07-08-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXgolfer

No, the point is.....people misspeak and and misuse languages all the time....sometimes they even parody languages. Just look at the way the Go Go Gophers cartoon or F Troop made fun of Indians....or even Mel Brooks in Blazzin Saddles.

Point is it happens to everyone....no need to get so upset.

No, what you said is meaningless. His question, "ASL is Destroying Indian Sign Language?", is a joke. ASL don't destroy their sign languages. Do you realize ASL was created by two hearing and Deaf men to help white (and some non-Indian non-whites) Deaf children? Also, another white men didn't want to use Indian Sign Languages to teach children because they still had their old-fashioned thinking of white superiority.

**Jiro** · 07-08-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokonut

How come Deaf schools at the time never bothered to help ensure that these Deaf Indians preserve their ISL and encourage the continued use of it by keeping in contact with their tribes and elders on maintaining their ISL identity? Sure, govt played a role. A big one but while they were over at the schools they never gotten any support to ensure that their ISL and culture continue to thrive. In fact, the problem was they were forced to choose between ISL and ASL. Kind of ironic considering people were screaming how ASL is becoming extinct but take a blind eye on what happened to some of the deaf Indians own ISL that have virtually disappeared.

why should they? most, if not all, deaf schools are on US government property. if deaf Indians want to preserve their ISL, then they'll need to build deaf schools on their reservation land.

07-06-2012, 08:22 PM	#183 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 15,798	And its not gonna work even though this gal has the right to do this kind of thing. The objection is in her exploitation and all the while she's even puts disclaimers in her vids that she's basically a beginner, a novice. So why doesn't this publisher she supposedly has contact a native deaf ASLer to publish this book? Last edited by Tousi; 07-07-2012 at 08:25 AM.

07-06-2012, 08:28 PM	#184 (permalink)
KarissaMann05 Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 6,440	You know what? NEVER MIND. I should know better because ASL is not really important to you guys, anyway. Bebonang likes this.

07-06-2012, 08:49 PM	#188 (permalink)
KarissaMann05 Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 6,440	Let me make it clear. I am not talking about HER BOOK that effects it. I am talking about HOW THEY handle the ASL. By the way, I want to add something that is not related what I said... "you [Kristin] are simply exploiting deaf people & deaf culture for internet popularity. and now that St. Martin's is intending to publish your smutty signs book, you are also exploiting us for financial gain. that's awful!" -- Victoria That is something I can't accept what she did. ambrosia likes this.

07-07-2012, 06:37 AM	#195 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,825	...and according to jiro's observation, one might say kristen is a psychopath too __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

07-07-2012, 05:21 PM	#198 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,825	me too, it's So obvious!! __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

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07-08-2012, 11:22 PM	#203 (permalink)
KarissaMann05 Premium Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 6,440	Oh boy. Now, we are "evil Whites" who stole ISL from Indians, so we all are the responsible for their dying languages. What a bullshit. Do you realize it is mainly because of governments' doings, not the Deaf community? I mean, look at America History. No, you know what? Never mind. It is our fault, all right. If that is what you feel so better about it, so whatever. Good riddance. Last edited by KarissaMann05; 07-08-2012 at 11:22 PM. Reason: Forget to add "nvm".

07-08-2012, 11:33 PM	#205 (permalink)
Bebonang Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Manitoulin Island on Lake Huron in Canada Posts: 7,056	I don't think we, Native Americans - hearing and deaf, don't own native sign language. But with many dialects of different native languages that we were depending on signing to be able to communicate when trading or trying to understand them to make peace. As for the Deaf Native Americans, we need sign language to help us understand more clearly than spoken languages. It is important to have sign language whether in Indian Sign Language or ASL. Right now it is already combined with the French sign language to some of the Native sign language. So now it is universal like from West coast to East coast, United States and Canada including some in Central America. I don't know about Mexico but they have their own sign language to communicate. Don't ever mock our sign language whether Natives use sign language just because they never botches. The white people took away from our spoken native languages that we tried to keep in our tradition. The whites changed all that for us. So this is the reason why hearing Natives had to be forced to speak English just like the Deaf people have been forced to speak spoken English. Now our Indian sign language is almost completely gone because of that and ASL have been trying to be eliminated by the Alexander Graham Bell so that we can lipread and speak like normal people. Ha! What a laugh that it is really us be oppressed that has tormented us trying to understand in the hearing world. That is why we need ASL between white people and people of colors so that we can communicate each other. Times have changed and there is no way to go back the way it was before. If you can find a book on Indian sign language, then that is good but you probably will not be interest in it anymore. __________________ I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . (thumb up) (very happy)

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