Grummer

WRONG on ALL COUNTS.....

AND if we all did was to suck it up, Nothing would have changed since 1950's,deaf schools hard oralism, no signing allowed, no political rights, Nothing!!

you wouldnt be living in the way as you do today...but even that so,...we're still a long way of from being emanicipated to be equal in society on grounds of equity.

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Albert Einstein

Deafness

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Grummer

WRONG WRONG WRONG on All counts.
and you are really saying disabled people just pretends to be disabled!?

How dare you write this !!!!
You have No place to write or say about disability m even Deafness for that i know you can't even decide what's your position, for all i can see, is you always try play "the professor" you cant know everything and do this by agreeing on everything, thats' a serious flawed logic, its just Terrible.

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

naisho

The problem with being deaf and being those positions is risky and can put people's lives in danger if someone takes advantage of the deaf person, knowing they are deaf. More importantly, the deaf person can become a liability if they put someone else in danger.

Did you read about the Deaf cop from Alaska who got shot?
Fatal Alaska ambush witnessed by one cop's family

The killer who shot him already knew he was a Deaf cop, and targeted him specifically for him being Deaf. He got shot and never knew what was coming. His partner had time to react, but then got shot right after.

This is why it can be dangerous to put a deaf person in a position of power (power as involving weapons), the same for the military positions. If it were all a fair world and everyone was deaf, then it would be different. But because we are all deaf, it can be used as a disadvantage against us.

Don't get me wrong, as I would not have anything against being an FBI agent even though I may be deaf - but I can understand why they do not want us in those positions because we can be a liability to others due to being deaf. Personally, I would be fine just to get into jobs in those areas that do not involve using 'hearing' as an important factor.

kokonut

People need to be honest about their limitations. Naisho is right. There are certain jobs or situations that could put a person in danger, and even the people around him or her because of a particular disability hampering and endangering a situation.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Grummer

^^whatever... you CAN still be...there just in administrational work as an non-sworn staff...

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

kokonut

^^^That's fine yet Naisho makes a salient point.

__________________
Before AD.

After AD.

"Restriction on free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us."
-Thurgood Marshall, former Supreme Court Justice


"... turns out they are telling the truth."

Grummer

^^^ it wasn't directed to you...sorry um..one story up higher lol

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

naisho

I think being in office/admin/technician position is fine. There are ways around instead of having to be in the front line position.

You can be an Investigative Assistant. Support Technician. Forensic Technician. Blood spatter analyst. Staff advisor. Research and development. Etc, it does not have to be limited to one area. Sometimes I wouldn't mind being in a front line position as a personal opinion, I would prefer to do my work alone (assuming military) but I know it doesn't work this way in real life.

Grummer

of course... but the disability factor still holds fast, i mean they would insist on a hearing impaired over Deaf..for mainly the convenience for the hearing...there's a long of greys..and darker shades of greys which seem to go unnoticed..

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

Audiofuzzy

Then how do you explain terms like "disability pension", for instance?
also as "disability brought on by society"?

Sorry, no. There is disability and disability, depends from what (philosophical) angle you discuss (look) at it.
Dis-ability means precisely a lack of yeah -impairment of something, in our case- a lack or impairment of hearing sense.
It can also mean a lack of any part of body, lack of body movement,
etc etc, the list can go on.

Of course going into your line of reasoning,
disability can also be stretched into an emotional/metaphorical spectrum.

yes, it can define how society disables otherwise disabled but able people
AND this has nothing to do with their true abilities - but this is an entirely different meaning of the word "disability".

Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

Grummer

that's an easy one

disability is a phemonena, and indeed it not only limits the ranges of occupation, lifestyle choices, limit a range of socialisation (due to stigmatisation), emotional what? OF course it affects people!!
metaphorical - what? - you're silly!, disability isnt based on a novel, or some abstracts, it is REAL, as real as you and I are, as real as the existence of the internet. If anythin 'metaphorical' as you say, you might be thinking "intangible"...well in that case, its manifested in policies, and it cant be 'metaphorical' since its written on papers - governments and corporates policies in their head offices...
sorry i dont buy your 'metaphorical/emotional' bullshit...because unfortunately it doesnt stack up well with REAL Disability matters..try telling this to people who uses wheelchairs, or protheses or who have CP...they's tell you right off the bat, metaphorical is like "poem", they'd be so ****ing angry with you, i know it cus I have read in some depth about Disabled peoples' involvement in the DRM...

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

KristinaB

Disability | Define Disability at Dictionary.com

dis·a·bil·i·ty   [dis-uh-bil-i-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural dis·a·bil·i·ties for 2.
1.
lack of adequate power, strength, or physical or mental ability; incapacity.
2.
a physical or mental handicap, especially one that prevents a person from living a full, normal life or from holding a gainful job.
3.
anything that disables or puts one at a disadvantage: His mere six-foot height will be a disability in professional basketball.
4.
the state or condition of being disabled.
5.
legal incapacity; legal disqualification.
EXPAND
Origin:
1570–80; dis-1 + ability

Synonyms
1. disqualification, incompetence, incapability, impotence. Disability, inability imply a lack of power or ability. A disability is some disqualifying deprivation or loss of power, physical or other: excused because of a physical disability; a temporary disability. Inability is a lack of ability, usually because of an inherent lack of talent, power, etc.: inability to talk, to do well in higher mathematics.

Antonyms
1. ability, capacity.

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Taking life one day at a time.

Audiofuzzy

I am sorry, I am afraid you completely but completely missed my point.
because you basically agree with ME!

Also, you don't know the meaning of the word metaphorical.
of course I didn't meant 'its' based on a "novel"' or "it's a poem"



Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

Grummer

WHAT?
I DO NOT agree with you, metaphorically it is NOT a phemonena if thats what you're thinking.

I DO KNOW WHAT IS a metaphor is, and what is Metaphorically or even metaphorically-speaking is. DONT YOUR ****ING DARE SAY I DONT KNOW the meaning of it

A metaphor is used to describe a subject by stating a similarity but using a comparison, at some point, to which is the same as another otherwise unrelated object. OBject might be something you can 'see' or some kind of consequence of when an object reacts, or say, when the wild water runs down the river fast it wears out the rock to have a smooth surface...this in some way, describes the pressure, the rush, the busy-ness, or the effort makes the rock (smooth and refined), the rock could be anything as you which... people do this often to make a point, by using a comparison that is more easier to relate to. Concepts could be too elusive to grasp, so a metaphori may be used to convey a description of a 'new concept'.

so there, and dont ever say i dont know what it is.
AND
i did not even USE a wiki, dictionary, or google to phrase this out, and if you're in doubt by all mean go google it.

DUH

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

Grummer

.double post

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

coolgirlspyer90

Lets remember that this thread isn't meant to become an argument or a debate. People are just trying to explain to you what their opinions are, you don't have to take this into a big event. SO, just take a deep breath and just let it go.

InfamousMacBook

I don't see it as a Disability but, it is disability in a category on its own because it doesn't limit anything physical. I can define as wearing glasses help you see but, your not blind. Deaf just means we cannot hear and in certain aspects such as things we could be put in danger or be a danger to someone else like flying a plane is where we are only disabled. Depends on situation. I suppose.

Iin

If you feel it limits you and disables you, then yes, it's a disability. If you consider it a disability then it is one. It has a lot to do with attitude and perception, I feel. But there is a lot of stigma attached to disabilities so people don't like to consider themselves as having one a lot of times... it can make you feel like less of a human being, perhaps because that is how you view disabilities.

I don't feel I am disabled because I'm Deaf. I just feel Deaf. And a little hungry...

I do feel it's wrong to project your identity (disabled or not disabled) on other people if they don't hold it. If a Deaf person feels they are disabled and has no problem with it, you can't force them to feel they aren't disabled. If they have a problem with it you can help remove the stigma. But if someone feels it isn't a disability and is happy, then why would force them to think otherwise? Who are they hurting?

So, yes and no.

DeafTim

I do know that my disability does limit me and thats fine. I can live wit dat. God created me. (no, im not religious)

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Passivist

for those who are deafened or acquire deafness it IS a disability, and has nothing to do with 'feeling', you just are disabled by it. Disability is defined in those terms as 'suffering sensory deprivation/loss after having hearing.' To write it off via culture is meaningless. Also coping with loss has nothing to do with zeroing it as a disability. Once you entertain THAT idea, then culture loses meaning too. Born deaf or those who from pre-school years had NO useful hearing cannot enter the debate. Ergo, they don't miss what they never had so it is a norm for THEM, for the rest it isn't, thus, a disablement.

It can be argued the considerable need for specialist education, interpreters, and disability welfare payments also recognise, even if 'Deaf' do not, they are disabled. They are relying on others for communication help. Empowerment is only true as is independent if you are NOT reliant on anyone else. I think basically 'Deaf' reject disability because of pride mostly. I don't think it really valid in practical terms, and certainly see no negativity in a disability label, without it few deaf in the western world would get any help.

Grummer

Pride is a political hype that got misused, by both sides of the protest, its like drug, if can help pain but it can also create defiant behaviour...

Pride has been a double blade weapon, little did Deaf people know it was also going to go against themselves, by a political misdirection to overlook how organisations disables (d/Deaf) people...

So, you saying a disablement is distinct from disability?

Disability IS about how specialist education, interpreters, and welfare are imposed with a condition, which has an effect of control...this control is thus disablement. You better look at the Union of the Physically Impaired Against Segregation. Fundamental Principles of Disability, London, 1976 as quoted in What is a Disability? outlined this distinction between disability and impairment, and going by your use of 'disablement' to describe those born deaf...is fundamentally erroneous. as below have put the demarcation set in correct position angle of what is disabilty..

Definitions of disability reflect society’s view of disability and of people with impairments. Recently, definitions have been developed by disabled people to explain the disabling effects of society and the way it is organised on the lives of people with impairments. Consideration of these definitions led to the development of models of disability

In your bolded part is indeed debatable as well, it is wrong to say those are Culturally Deaf have no say in what is Disability! That is a political denial.

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

Audiofuzzy

see right here you are made a mistake,
for this not quite what metaphor only is, or, not the only meaning of what "metaphor" could be.
A metaphor could also be a symbol, and this is how I used it in my paragraph,
alright?

2.
something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.
Metaphor | Define Metaphor at Dictionary.com

and yes, you did agree with me, in your bold- ed sentence is the part where
you basically repeat what I said preciously in my post:

its' basically what I am saying - that being disabled is not being able to use all your senses or your body parts or your full motion,
but is not the same as being unable:
Oh - okay - I should add I meant only a BOLD part of your quote wee agree on, sorry!
I hope I cleared all that up now.

Fuzzy

__________________
.
A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

Grummer

NO NO NO NO
you're all wrong AGAIN

Disability has NOTHING to do with a lack of body function or mental impairment, NOTHING AT ALL with it...
It is IMPAIRMENT, NOT Disability

and Disability is not being able to Make Own choices, being unable to decide how to accomodate oneself's impairment to fit in the abled-bodied world...
Abled-bodied people EXCLUDES people with impairment in many important social activity, and in many cases, they (abled) make decisions on policy with little or NO consideration on how it affects impaired people _ THAT's IS DISABILITY, the very act of making impaired people UN-able. That is, to be unable to have any power or rights to include a proper opinion of how things should operate or rules on what to benefit impaired people, or rights to get their voices heard (viewpoint seen clearly to be noticed) on a matter that concerns impaired people. .

that being disabled is not being able to use all your senses or your body parts or your full motion,

but is not the same as being unable to add in new executive application or new voice for a new initative to better the lives of impaired people, rather abled people makes decision so THEY (abled) get more work (or cut for more profit), you just cant see it, can you?

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

Iin

If I was born HoH and remained so, am I disabled in your eyes? I never lost anything. What if I wore hearing aids for a long time and then stopped? Or are we only referring to natural hearing. It seems like you are saying no one is disabled by their hearing if they were born with a certain level, no matter what that level is... but having it go down would disable them. Am I understanding that right? I can see that. Though I don't feel it lessens the culture any.

I agree there's an element of pride to it. People think there is something wrong with having a disability/impairment (a term I agree a little more with)/handicap and don't like thinking of themselves as having one. But I am sure there are people who have no problem with it, may consider themselves to have another disability/impairment/handicap and not consider their hearing to be one of them.

If I speak English but need help communicating in Spanish in a Spanish country (this skewed analogy has probably already been made), does the relying on others for communication disable me?

Eh. I simply don't think of myself as disabled. I'm okay with being legally stated as having a disability (or impairment, or perhaps atypical hearing), though it's just not how I think. ~shrug~

Grummer

Hmmm,...
not thinking you have a disability just because you seem to think you have a minor impairment...that's really strange, so intriguing that it's almost like as if youre 'about the same' as a person who'd lost their foot or toes at birth and had nothing enough to be an impact in their lives... thats' really interesting..about the ways people gauge how far or how much to lose to be considered a 'loss' to be an enough of an impairment to draw in 'disability' factor in their lives...just really interesting...

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein

Passivist

I think it comes under 'useful' hearing you have. Certainly if you struggle to hear then you are disabled by your loss. I am concerned mainly with those who acquire a loss after formative hearing. The issues/trauma of that can disable you for life without question. I do not feel comfortable 'Deaf' (To use their terminology!), see not only disability as negative, but other deaf who feel they are disabled by it, yet c,aim all the support/empowerment/help (There are loads of names they can use), the label gives them.

If people are saying I AM NOT DISABLED ! then will they refuse to take any support that is removed because of that ? Simply NOT calling it support doesn't change anything, neither does communication issues mean deaf will not NEED that support, of course they will, from birth, to education and into adulthood as well. Just because (And I think this tends to be an American trait), you call it something else doesn't change what is very obvious to see. You CAN have an culture and still have an disability. Deaf rejecting 'lablels' yet using their own merely shift the goalposts, it doesn't change the game much as they would suggest it does.

IN retrospect the attitude is HIGHLY negative of disability in practice, what other sector could get away with that assault on disabled ? since if you attack the title you attack the people too.

ambrosia

You took the word right out of my mouth! As I was reading through the comments on this thread I was thinking that some people seem to be attaching a stigma to the words disabled and disability. Having those words apply to you does not disvalue you as a person in any way.

I think this is an example of words having power. Yes there is a definition for the words disabled and disability, but you do not have to let those definitions define YOU. Disablity and disabled are not dirty words

This is how I feel about about it. Deafness IS a disability. Yes it can be limiting in various ways in your life. But the simple fact of accepting the realities of those limitations does mean the person has accepted the stigmata that some people to feel is associated with the words disabled and disability.

I was not born deaf. I started losing my hearing as a young adult, so I never learned ASL, but really who am I going to use that with anyway? My husband, whom I left, flat out refused to learn it with me, and it's not like I can expect everyone (extended family and coworkers) already in my life to go and learn it. I'm the one with the problem. I'm the one that has do something about how I'm going to communicate. I'm the one that has to accept the realities of my disability. I never took lipreading classes either, but over the years my brain trained itself how to do it. I'm not proficient at it, it helps if I have my hearing aid on so I can combine sound cues and lip reading, but I can do it. It's a pain in the ass for anyone who is trying to talk to me to have to be looking right at me, but it doesn't stop people from doing it.

They don't think less of me because they can only talk to me face to face. They don't think less of me if I don't realize it's raining outside because I can't hear the raindrops on the roof. But more importantly, I don't think less of me because I can't hear the rain drops. Being able to hear the raindrops is not what gives my life value or meaning, it just means I can't hear the raindrops.

KristinaB

I got my definition of "disability" straight from the dictionary. How can that be wrong? I looked in both a medical dictionary as well as general dictionary. I think you might have a slight misconception as to the real definition of the word.

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Grummer

no, disabled is WRONG , even in the dictionary,

disability has Nothing to do with the body, it has everything to do with oppression, as thus dis=abled from function as a 100% citizen in society, as in 'held back'...

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"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
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Grummer

it seem they added it in the dictionary as per 'convention' or 'ordinary uneducated language use'
ask this to anyone who is a lecturer, Doctor, or Professor in Disability Studies in Universities _ NOT high school !!....bet you they will tell you im right I guranteee it

__________________
"Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them."
Albert Einstein