whatdidyousay!

When I saw Marty at the shelter I was not told that Marty had a habit of biting your hand! I was warned about another dogs that bite at the shelter.
The people at the shelter did not realize how sick Marty was when I adopted him. Marty much had been too sick to show that he has a bad trait! I been trying to stop him like the trainer told me to. When I went to pick him up today he bite my fingers rather hard! My fingers still hurt! I have a six years old granddaughter and I can't have a dog that has a habit of biting people! Plus I can't bring a dog like that into public places , I will get sued if Marty bite a child! I am heartbroken! I nursed this dog back to health to only find out he bite! My daughter was attacked by a Russian Wolfhound when she was a child! The dog just miss taking her eye out! So I have good reasons to be very concerned about Marty biting my granddaughter. If Marty had bitten my granddaughter face or fingers as hard as bite me he could had really done some harm! I will not be getting another dog at the shelter, I do not want to go through this again after losing my beloved Finlay to cancer!

Deafness

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Reba

I'm sorry about that.

Will you surrender Marty to the shelter?

Beach girl

Oh dear. What were the circumstances of the bite? Did he bite once and let go, or did he hang on?

I would be very, very concerned about a dog that bit and hung on. Biting once is bad, but is probably correctable. What did your trainer say?

Was Marty trying to defend something? Was he scared? Was he just so excited to see you that he used his teeth inappropriately, but didn't actually intend to bite?

Biting and house-training issues are among the top reasons dogs end up in shelters.

That said, Pippin came from a rescue, and is the sweetest, most affectionate dog you'd ever want to find.

PM me if you want suggestions on poodle rescue groups. Sometimes a rescue is better than a shelter, and the dogs are better evaluated for temperament.

But I hope you can work with Marty and correct this bad trait.

whatdidyousay!

I am thinking of doing this, like I said I have real concerns about this . I am so upset! But I can't take the risk of him really biting my grandchild or another child! It does not take a lot to hurt a small child face or fingers!

Beach girl

That is so true.

This is a sad thing to happen after all you have been through, first with Finlay and now after, as you said, nursing Marty back to health.

whatdidyousay!

He started to to just mouth me with his teeth, this time he put some pressure
into his bite and let go ! Which is not good at all! I was laying down and picked him like I had before , I know I did not hurt him as he did not cry out.
I know he had to been abused , or maybe he was given up because he bite someone before! I called a poodle rescue shelter up and when I told the woman I was looking for a poodle to train to be a hearing dog the woman got all freaked out that I was going hurt the dog! WTF! Some people think hearing dogs are mistreated when being trained. I am called the trainers and left them a message . I wonder if I had Marty stay with the trainer for a few weeks they could break Marty's bad habit. I am just so upset about all of this! Crap!! I miss my Finlay, he was a great dog!!

Beach girl

That's bizarre that the woman at the rescue would think you were going to hurt the dog to do your training!

If Marty had been abused, it's possible he has a tender spot someplace that hurt, or it's possible he didn't know what to expect when being picked up.

This is tough. You need a reliable dog, with your granddaughter around. I hope your trainer can give you some good advice.

If you definitely want a poodle - which of course anyone would... ;-) - sometimes it's possible to get a young adult dog from a breeder, if they were keeping a dog to show and it ended up going oversize (for a mini) or for some other reason wouldn't be competitive for showing. Often those dogs make wonderful pets, because they come from a good pedigree and health-tested parents, and have already had some basic obedience training.

Of course doesn't necessarily mean such a dog would be a good candidate for training as a hearing assistance dog. Do you have someone good who can help you evaluate for that?

Banjo

One suggestion I could make is to bring the dog to a dog trainer.

Glenn

Where is Cesar Millan when you need him?

Cesar Millan's Official Website | Achieving balance between people and dogs.

Beach girl

Or Victoria Stillwell. Victoria Stilwell Positively*|*The Official Victoria Stilwell Website

I love her methods of positive training.

dogmom

Beach girl!
PLEASE anyone who reads - utilize a trainer in your area who uses current scientific, REWARD-BASED methods of training instead of punishment-based such as displayed in some tv shows. Punishment-based is ANYTHING the dog finds un-pleasant, that the handler adds to the training to reduce behaviors. This means: "corrections" like with a choke/prong/pinch collar, shock collars <regardless of how shock collars have "evolved" or "the dog doesn't feel it" or it's just a tingle">, "alpha rolls" <which are OUTDATED and behaviorally incorrect>, scruff shakes, "hanging" a dog, swatting a dog, ear pinch etc.
Victoria S. and others like her try to focus on preventing and managing un-wanted behaviors and rewarding behaviors the person WANTS, as well as avoiding the use of the word or idea "no", which means NOTHING to the dog and doesn't give the dog something she can do.

Punishment - which is what Mr. Milan does - ONLY suppresses the behavior, frightens/frustrates/confuses the dog and prevents the dog from trying to communicate, then you have a dog who "bites out of the blue". Dogs DO NOT bite "all of a sudden", or "from nowhere" UNLESS the communication leading up to the bite was punished out, or if there is a true underlying medical issue like a brain tumor.

dogmom

whatdidyousay!, I'm very sorry this happened to you with Marty! I understand you now have to make a choice and that is very hard.
If you want, you can PM me and let me know your region and I can try and find a reward-based trainer/behaviorist like I described, in your area who has experience in this particular issue. But for a service dog the temperament really has to be "just right" so I think your concerns are quite valid.

I like Beach girl's idea, too, about looking for a young adult from a reputable, experienced breeder who has proven dogs. If you want to find one, contact the national breed club Welcome to PCA! and they can direct you to local Poodle clubs and other Poodle rescues you may not know about.
here also is link to PCA rescue section of their site, which includes U.S. map
PCA Rescue Foundation

Beach girl

Dogmom - off-topic - are you going to the PCA event in Salisbury?

Whatdidyousay! - I thought of something else. Is there any chance Marty was biting your hands in play? Was he wagging his tail at the time? What was the expression? Did he also growl at you, or not?

Is is possible that someone, at some point, thought it would be "cute" to teach him to bite in play? For some reason, people sometimes think it's just adorable to teach a small dog to bite and play rough. They'll slap their hands down in front of the dog to tease it and get it to nip at their fingers. And then "Oh, look, my teeny-widdle dog is SUCH a fighter, ha ha, look how he attacks!" And then at some point cute widdle Snookums really DOES bite, to draw blood, and then it's suddenly not so cute anymore.

Don't ask me why people do this, other than being complete chowderheads.

Anyway, for the time being, to start Marty on the right path - please avoid ANY games that involve him biting or snatching or playing tug with you. No tug of war with rope toys, no excited play with your hands (obviously), no chase games involving tugs with a stick, etc.

How is he when you touch him gently? Can he lay by your side on the couch, with you petting him? If so, I would start giving him small treats just for being calm. Pet, treat, praise. Pet, treat, praise. DON'T let him nose around into your pocket for treats or grab them out of your hand. He gets rewarded for being calm.

Also, a tired dog is usually a good dog. Can you go for walks with him? Does he have a safe place to run around and work off some energy? Anything you can do with him to physically tire him out will be useful in helping him be calm. This is assuming he is physically ready to do these things, of course.

whatdidyousay!

The trainers think I should bring Marty back to the shelter as he not a sable dog . I feel really bad for Marty , he has gotten a real rotten deal!
I am thinking he might had been given up in California because he bite someone or he was abused and the only way he could defence himself
is by biting. It is a drag the shelter did not realize that Marty was a quite dog
because he was so sick!! In fact too sick to tell he had a bad trait of biting.
I am so unhappy about all of this! I stayed up till 1:00 AM to take him out.

whatdidyousay!

Yeah , I wish I lived in Cal. and had enough money to hire him!

whatdidyousay!

Marty bite when I was picking him to lay down on the couch with. I was up at 1:00 AM with last night he had to poop ! I will not let Marty run lose and the only to let burn some engery off is by throwing a toy for him or taking him for a walk. I try to pat him when he laying down , I have not been able to find treat that he really like yet. He been too eat to show any interest in treats.

Reba

Since Marty has digestive tract problems, maybe it hurts him when he's picked up. The way you pick him up is probably fine for a healthy dog but maybe he's sensitive in his body because of his bowel problems.

It's too bad you can't find out his history from his previous family. There might be clues to his behavior.

Beach girl

That's a very good point about the bowel problems. Did you pick him up by lifting him under his stomach?

He should only be lifted by scooping your hand under his rear end, and supporting his rib cage with your other hand. Let his bones support his body, in other words, and don't put any pressure at all on the soft areas of his under-belly.

whatdidyousay!

You could you right about this! I did pick him up under his stomach . He is just finish his meds for his cough and he starting to cough again! He has more antibiotic to take and this is giving him the runs! Now he need to take meds to stop the runs! The poor little guy will never be done with taking meds! And this will made his stomach hurt ! There is no way to find out anything about Marty history , I had asked 2 times and the shelter does not know anything , they did did not either know Marty DOB . I really think more should be done for a dog before sending a it 3,000 miles! The people should at least make sure the dog is healthly enough to travel that far!

Beach girl

I still don't quite understand how Marty got to you. He was shipped from the shelter in California to a shelter near you, and then you got him from the shelter near you, is that right? Did you specifically request him from the shelter in California originally?

Reba, I think you get the gold star for figuring out why he bit. Very astute intuition and putting two and two together, there.

whatdidyousay!

Marty was shipped from a kill shelter in Calif. to a shelter that does not kill animals . The shelter is in my state, Mass. and about a 50 minutes ride from my home. The shelter has web site with all the dog and cats looking for a forever home. I saw Brad Pitt's photo on the shelter web site and when there with my daughter and granddaughter as I wanted to see how Brad got along with children. No people do request for a pet from another state at this shelter, the shelter works with shelters all over the place ,they have dogs from other countries . You can request that the shelter let you know when a person had a pet they're giving up. I did this but the dogs where older than I wanted, they where 6 and 7 years old.

Reba

Well, I'm not saying that's for sure but it's worth investigating.

Beach girl

It really does make sense.

I really have fingers, toes, and Casey's and Pippin's paws crossed for you and Marty, whatdidyousay! Once Marty gets through all of his medical issues, then it will be easier to evaluate his temperament. Poor tyke. I hope the bite was just a reaction to pain and not part of his usual self.

At the same time, it would be a good idea to keep him away from your granddaughter, or at least under VERY close supervision, and don't let her pick him up or handle him. Being cautious is better safe than sorry, until he settles in more, at least.

TXgolfer

Could have a bruised or cracked rib due to the trip...Animals tend to bounce around. I would try a week without picking him up and see if his behavior is different. You could always lay on the floor with him instead of putting him on the couch

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Beach girl

Whatdidyousay, is Marty still underweight? I don't remember what you said about that.

I am probably thinking about you and Marty WAY too much, but you crossed my mind this a.m. when I was making Satin Balls for my dogs. Have you ever heard of these?

Here is the recipe I use:

Put weight on your dog with "satin balls"

I use the version for small dogs, with 1 lb. hamburger. Sometimes I double the recipe and use two lbs. They are very tasty and the boys love 'em.

whatdidyousay!

The vet assistant and I thought Marty gained a one lb but when I weight him yesterday he weight 12 lbs and a few ounces! I did joke with the vet assistant that the one lb may be poop! I think I was right! It is hard to tell if is gaining weight . Marty poop a lot for small dog! No, I never heard of Satin Balls . A woman from the shelter called me today and told me up to pick up Marty unless I really need to. I was told to her the shelter back Monday and let them know how things when over the weekend with Marty. If I bring him
I use get another dog and not have to pay any more money. I really hope it will work out with Marty, I hate to have to bring him back after all he been through!

Beach girl

Hey, that's good news, isn't it?? So he's all ok in handling his digestion now? That's wonderful.

Life of the dog-owner - always concerned about the poop!

With the Satin Balls, they are very easily digested and have very good things in them to keep the dog's coat shiny, eyes bright, healthy weight, etc. I use them as a supplement on top of kibble.

After I make them up, I freeze them and then put them in Zip-lock bags. I use one a day, take it out of the freezer and put it in the microwave for 15 seconds. Then I crumble just a little bit of it into Pippin's dish (since he is chubby already), and about 3/4 of one meatball for Casey. Mix it well into their food.

They ADORE it.

Beowulf

Awwwww.
I hate to say it, but the dog could have a propensity to bite. Just be aware of lawsuits you could face if it bites again. Good luck, I am wishing you the best!

whatdidyousay!

His poop is to still not normal , it's too lose. I think the Satin Balls would be too heavy for Marty right now , he is stilling taking meds and his tummy has to be setup for this.

whatdidyousay!

This what I am concerned about, when he bit my fingers he did not break my skin but it sure did hurt! And a child fingers a lot tinier than mine and it could had been worst! I am being to think Marty was slapped around a lot and he is not sure what I am going to do to him.