Reba

That description is beautiful.

We need to start a new thread with pictures!

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Deafness

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]
I feel that you misinterpreted my comparison post because I disagree with some posters for compared declaw with vaccines and neuter/spaying and then compared human fingertips with animal claw.

Anyway, I feel from your post that you think it´s just claw... No, it´s not just claw but removed the bone joint, flesh, tendons, nerves, blood vessels...as well. Declaw is a form of an amputation.

I hope this link will helps.

The Facts About Declawing

Oh I see. Is it punishment to declaw the cat because of this? The toddlers/small children did the same as well... They do mess the funiture etc ... It doesn´t bother me really because I love my boys and cats what they are because they are my wish... I really have no problem with my patience to correct my boys and pets in positive way... Example: my cats know I don´t like them to jump on the table but stay on the chair. They understood and respect me... It´s about training/education with good patience.

Yes.

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VanG

[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));862626]I agree with you.


Like I said there are Pro and Con. I had been reading many website about declaw and notice that most people who is against declaw wrote site to tell the people what their belief. I don't see someone else speaking about declaw. So I spoke to Dr. Cowdrey about this stuff. She said that there are many debate about declaw but Veterinary Board in America allowed that to declaw based on health purposes. I just can't discuss or debate with Vetinary Board.

VanG

[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));862619]Soft paws are not good idea. I had been working on one cat with soft paw. However after visit with Vet. We had to had surgery on paw to remove debris out of paw. Doctor advice owner not to make paws softer because debris can damaged paws. I rather for paws to make stronger and stiff even declaw or claw. Poor Finis!

Reba

I don't know what makes you think I didn't know what declawing is. I've known about it for decades.


No, it's not "punishment."

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golfnut

I do have some great pictures I could send.

Kaitin

[QUOTE=VanG;862875]From American Veterinary Medical Association Executive Board: AVMA position statement on the declawing of domestic cats

Declawing of domestic cats should be considered only after attempts have been made to prevent the cat from using its claws destructively or when its clawing presents a zoonotic risk for its owner(s).

The AVMA believes it is the obligation of veterinarians to provide cat owners with complete education with regard to feline onychectomy. The following points are the foundation for full understanding and disclosure regarding declawing:

1. Scratching is a normal feline behavior, is a means for cats to mark their territory both visually and with scent, and is used for claw conditioning ("husk" removal) and stretching activity.

2. Owners must provide suitable implements for normal scratching behavior. Examples are scratching posts, cardboard boxes, lumber or logs, and carpet or fabric remnants affixed to stationary objects. Implements should be tall or long enough to allow full stretching, and be firmly anchored to provide necessary resistance to scratching. Cats should be positively reinforced in the use of these implements.

3. Appropriate claw care (consisting of trimming the claws every 1 to 2 weeks) should be provided to prevent injury or damage to household items.

4. Surgical declawing is not a medically necessary procedure for the cat in most cases. While rare in occurrence, there are inherent risks and complications with any surgical procedure including, but not limited to, anesthetic complications, hemorrhage, infection, and pain. If onychectomy is performed, appropriate use of safe and effective anesthetic agents and the use of safe peri-operative analgesics for an appropriate length of time are imperative. The surgical alternative of tendonectomy is not recommended.

5. Declawed cats should be housed indoors.

6. Scientific data do indicate that cats that have destructive clawing behavior are more likely to be euthanatized, or more readily relinquished, released, or abandoned, thereby contributing to the homeless cat population. Where scratching behavior is an issue as to whether or not a particular cat can remain as an acceptable household pet in a particular home, surgical onychectomy may be considered.

7. There is no scientific evidence that declawing leads to behavioral abnormalities when the behavior of declawed cats is compared with that of cats in control groups.



From the American College of Veterinary Surgeons: Declawing in Cats

- The declaw procedure involves removing the third phalanx (the last bone and its associated claw) from each toe (digit) on both forelegs. There are several different techniques for accomplishing this. The third phalanx can be amputated from the digit by using a scalpel blade (Figure 1), sterile nail clippers or with a laser (Figures 2 and 3). The laser has been reported to cause less hemorrhage, swelling and pain. This has not been proven, however laser declawing is an acceptable method.

Because each digit is amputated through the joint, this procedure is painful and requires the appropriate treatment of pain before, during and after the procedure. Options for pain treatment include:

*
local anesthetics (“numbing”) of the feet before surgery
*
the use of fentanyl patches which allow Fentanyl, a potent narcotic to be absorbed through the skin and provide pain relief for 3-5 days
*
injectable or oral pain killers administered postoperatively

How well a cat does after a declaw procedure will depend on the surgical technique, pain killers used, the cat's age and weight (older and heavier cats will generally not do as well) as well as individual variation. Potential complications of a declaw procedure include: excessive bleeding from the declaw sites, infection of the incisions or long-term residual lameness. -

Summary
A declaw is a procedure that is performed by general practitioners to prevent destructive behaviours in cats. The procedure is quick and simple, but can have complications and is painful. A declaw procedure should not be performed without careful consideration of the reasons for performing this procedure and the other options that are available. It is important to start training kittens early to learn appropriate scratching behaviour and to tolerate regular nail trims, so that as many options are available to you as possible. These options include: behavioral modification, regular nail trimming, Soft Paws, tendonectomy and declaw.

Approval but only "last resort".

Opal

Declaw Hall of Shame - Stop Declawing Now!

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Mistyrose

Wow! 23 years? amazing! Dad had a siamese cat, Suki who was
19 years old when he died..and they do have long lives, i guess.

Tonkinese breed? never heard of them..i bet they are beautiful too!
got pics of them? im so curious about that kind of breed..
Siamese do have beautiful blue eyes but i bet Tonkinese does too!,
the way you describe their blue eyes!..
I like those good breed type of cats like siamese, persian, burmese
etc...ha..i know im being biased..haha..

Mistyrose

Wow! they sounded like beautiful cats! Yes, there are blue points
and i heard they are just beautiful and expensive, right?
Yes you are right, they are smart and affectionate..dad loved them
for those reasons, lol.

Reba

Our Blue point wasn't expensive because she was a "rescued" kitty.

All of our cats were rescued, so they were neutered and didn't come with papers. Not so expensive that way.

The former show kitty was "over the hill" at one year of age, so he couldn't be shown anymore, and had sired enough offspring for the cattery owner.

One of our Siamese was in a family with a little girl who developed an allergy to cats, so we got him for a cheaper price too.

One was from a shelter.

Good quality Siamese can be found in shelters and rescue associations.

If I ever had another cat, it would have to be Siamese or Oriental.

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Freaky Cat

I had two cats that were declawed.. i got her from a friend who couldnt take care of her so i adopted her.. her name was Trouble cuz she always get in everything nosey.. lol.. anyway she got strangled by snake. she couldnt protected herself cuz she was declawed. yes she died inside the cabinet in kitchen. Not outside! i was very upset! I really missed her so much... my other bobcat mix-Ricky he was also declawed. A friend who couldnt take care of him gave him to me.. He had arthirtis as his front legs painfully lean to right instead of proper align. He couldnt run. He limped.. I dont like declawing at all! God put claws on the cats for reason!

Audiofuzzy

EXACTLY!
and I think this is awful how pple think they can do whatever they want to an animal to accomodate it to their 'human' needs. want a cat but worried about furniture? no plm, we will have it declawed. want a dog but worried about furniture? no plm let's keep it in a cage.

People does not respect animals as they should. An animal is not a toy, not something to be taken for granted - its living, breathing creature that NEVER asked to be taken to YOUR home, and made into something it is not.

Anyone who considers taking in a dog or cat or even a hamster, should first think hard, think twice, then think again that first of all it's a BIG RESPONSIBILITY that will last many many years, that kitties and puppies grow into big cats and dogs not longer so soft and cute,
and you never know if the animal will turn out the way you imagined it to be - for example it may not be as cuddly anf affectionate, or as quiet and obedient as you wanted it to, and most of all you can't have clean home with animals.
Even the best behaved pets have accidents, get sick or get into mischief many times throughout their life at home.

So, don't take a cat or dog home if you like it clean and organized. don't take a cat or dog home if you are not ready to be scratched or bitten ever.

Fuzzy

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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
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Audiofuzzy

Really awful. and a serval, for crissake.

Fuzzy

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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Sunshine1

I had several cats in the past and have one cat here. They all have never been declawed. They all have never scratched any furnitures here. When I first bought each kitten/cat home, I watched them careful and if they started to scratch on furniture, I went and squeezed their paws and at the same time I said in firm "NO NO" even sign languages too. Usually after second time they have learned and never had any problem since then. Every week or two I alway trimmed their sharp nails to keep in short.

Let me tell you a story or two ...

One time at the Vets one of my cats, Gandalf was mad at the vets and went boxing at me especially at my face as I hold him. The vets went back few steps and was in shocked. The vets checked on me to see if any scratches on my face and hands, NOPE .. NONE... cuz Gandalf didn't use his claws cuz he knews he is not suppose to use his nails no matter what. Very smart, wasn't he. haha

Also Gandalf was attacked by two pit bull dogs out in my front porch. I was doing landscaping and saw them. I ran to them and kicked both dogs to get out of way then Gandalf ran up to the tree. Thanks God he used his claws. Finally both dogs ran to their owner's vehicle about a half block away as my neighbors saw. Boy he went through alot and had two surgeries and survived very well. Whew. The vets said Gandalf was an amazing tough cat!!! haha

Also one of my cats, Bandit was playing with a garden snake that I found them playing in my living room behind crouch!!! It was funny cuz the snake is afraid of Bandit, perhaps he used his claws when it's really neccessary!!! haha ... well we finally got that snake out of house tho.

Well I personally believe all cats shouldn't be declawed. It's NOT hard to train any cats NOT to use their claws. It's simple only been told twice then they won't do it again in the house (except scratching pole when they have been told "OK, good boy/girl).

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Your own word

I was like because you questioned to "compare" human nail with animal claw. I only compared human fingertips with animal claw, not human nail.

This is your opinion.

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GarnetTigerMom

I have to repsect the pet owners about declawing their cats for good reasons. I am sure they are pretty much in-door house cat that never been outside. Some declaw them so they don't ruin the sofa or hurt the kids if they plan to keep them in the house for rest of their life. But outside cats should never be declaw because they will need their own protestion to climb trees and self-denfenses if the cat felt or feel threatren in a sitauation. I personally never declaw an animal expect give them nail trimming that it. :-)

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GarnetTigerMom

"The rain may be falling hard outside,
But your smile makes it all alright.
I'm so glad that you're my friend.
I know our friendship will never end."
-- Robert Alan

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Have you read Opal´s link?


Yes, I know what you mean... I doesn´t mean to point my finger to you but use "you" in general way... (I didn´t know before that you have pets).

To my suggestion...

I guess that US Veterinary Board are lazy to educate the pet owners to be how to take care of their future pets? Or make profit themselves from the pet owners to declaw the pets?



What you said about cons/pros... health purposes? Can you care to explain the example the reason why they amputiere cat´s claw for? What´s an exact health purposes for?

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Liebling:-)))

Yes I did the same as you as well. Yes I agree it´s not really hard to train the pets to not do that or do that.

I thought all the time that declaw is just remove nail after learn about banned list over pets like declaw, tail docking, ear cropping etc... I know about tail docking and ear cropping... declaw... I can understand it´s hurt to remove nail... like they would remove my nails...until I learned other declaw thread for a first time last year that it´s NOT just nail but bones, vessel, etc. Yes I was very shock because I didn´t know that Declaw is a form of an amputation. Of course we have hot debated there and accept the fact that it´s American culture and show my respect to the pet owners when I respectful disagree with their choice and see different as them.

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Liebling:-)))

Yes I can see it and beleive it... I would not do that to my cats but train them to not do that... The reason I ask the posters for feedback because of Kim, my cat. She is unfriendly cat and scratch people sometimes. I didn´t know anything about soft paw until last year... I begin to consider soft paw on Kim only, not other 3 cats. Surprisely, I got negative feedback from many posters over soft paw until Angel brought the subject up.

I check with the Vet about Kim... and soft paw, etc. The Vet edcuated me how to stop Kim to scratch people. All what I should scream "NEIN" (German word for NO) and no praise to her... no cuddle if she come for my attention... I did... It works pretty good... It less and less and turn into friendly cat... sometimes unfriendly... no problem with other 3 cats. Kim is gone... (see my avator and signuature... ) I miss her terrible...

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Liebling:-)))

Understand what you mean...

more scratching posts and give them more toys or play with them, they won´t be boring.

Yes, you should raise your voice often to say NO.... they will know you don´t like it. just say NO.

You described about your 2 cats sound similar to my Kim who loves stay outside... I can see that Kim is outdoor cat, not indoor cat. She loves outside... I trained her as indoor cat but it´s very hard... after dog attack, I strictly to keep her indoor... until last month she escaped out of house door and end car accident...

It´s good to know which and where your cats prefer to stay... then accept what they are...which is great!!!

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IslandGal

My aunt’s cat was not as lucky as these cats that had no problems after being declawed because it died from infection that it had after being declawed. Not all declawings are successful.

Human females also have their tubes tied and human males with their vas deferens removed but do they go with having the tips of bones in their fingers amputated? I don’t think so. Neutering/spaying should not be compared to declawings at all.

I haven’t used the Soft Paws at all after I researched on it. What I did was to train my kitten (she is now a year and a half old) to use the scratching post or a cardboard box to scratch on. I also keep her claws clipped short. Patience is all what is needed to train and raise a cat.

Laser declawing may be less painful but it is still the same as the traditional declawing when it comes to amputating the tips of bones from the cats’ paws.

By the way, West Hollywood in California became the first U.S. city to ban the declawings in 2003 and some other cities are trying to follow with the ban as well.

IslandGal

Same with me, I thought it was just the removal of the claws when I first got the kitten for my daughter's birthday but after a friend told me that it was more than that. She then gave me some links to look at and I was shocked to learn that the tips of bones were also removed along with the claws. It is really amputation not "removal". I am glad that I did some researchings on declawings before I went ahead with the declawing.

Reba

Are you accusing me of lying?

You are the one who compared toddlers with cats scratching furniture.


That's my fact. I never punished my cats or dogs for any accidents that they did.

You weren't there, and you definitely weren't inside my head, so you can't contradict what I post about things I do or say. If I say I did something or didn't do something, I'm not lying. You might not agree with what I do or say, but you can't accuse me of lying.

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IslandGal

But the cats mostly use their front claws to defend themselves from harm. It is like with humans mostly need their hands when it comes to defending themselves

rockdrummer

I believe that is true when the cat has front claws but when the cat knows he only has rear claws the cat will use those rear claws in a fight if need be.

Reba

That's a fact. My cats used their rear claws a lot at bath time.

My Ninja kitty also used his front paws to box with. He was just like a prize fighter, delivering quick 1-2 punches.

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE] I pasted your own word. Where have I say anything to accuse you as a liar? This is a false assumption of you.


No, again - you made a false assumption. My own word to compare human fingertips with cat´s claw, not nail. You are the one who misinterpreted my own word.

See my own word


No, it´s not fact but opinion. You and I have different point of view on declaw.

I only pointed in polite way that we have different point of view on declaw, that´s all. I really has no idea why you are upset, that´s because I simple pointed out that it´s your opinion without insult/bash you as a liar, cruel, etc...

Please don´t make a false assumption because I did not say anything to upset you or accuse you as a liar or whatever.

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Liebling:-)))

Exactly... that´s what I am wondering after read rockdrummer´s post and questioned him about this.

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Liebling:-)))

Yes, I would of thought all the time that it´s just claw (nail) removal if you didn´t create the thread. I am glad that you created the thread last year which is good education for us. I know what exact declaw is -

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