Are Open Marriages More Successful Than Traditional Couplings? - Page 3

Daredevel7 · 06-30-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Shel90, if you said what is true, then I am sure that you accused me as a judgemental one, too. No, Shel. They just voiced their opinions on this thread. Sure, their opinions and my opinions are sound so strong and sensitive, which is why people assumed/accused me as a bigotry, retard, stupid, judge, racist, homophobe, or whatever. I meant, speak of general.

I'm not surprise that you automatically assumed believers are judgemental, simply because they disagreed and voiced their opinions on this thread.
Besides, isn't labeling Conservative/ReligiousPeople/Christians views as "unacceptable hatred/racist/bigotry/stupid/ignorant/judgemental/etc" and having no tolerance for those views... bigotry in and of itself? Or what?

Disapproval =/= bigotry.
Disapproval =/= judgemental.
Disapproval =/= intolerance.
Disapproval =/= hatred.
Disapproval =/= whatever it called.

Really, it's so pointless when those people are honestly believing that someone is judgemental/bigotry/ignorant/etc solely because they don't support something. What a pitiful assumption...

Disagreeing something that does not make you a judgemental one. Just saying...

That's nice on paper, but I don't think that's reality. The reason why some are labeled judgmental is because they cross the line between disagreement and judgment.

Disagreement: "It seems to bring a higher risk of obtaining STDs."
Judgment: "All they care about is self gratification."
Disagreement: "It might cause jealousy."
Judgment: "They don't care about vows causing moral decay."
Disagreement: "God may condemn them for breaking the vows."
Judgment: "They are sick and don't know how to control their urges."

See the difference? When you make an assumption about what could be an outcome of this event, that's a reason for disagreement. When you make assumptions about how the person FEELS/THINKS, that's judgment.

KarissaMann05 · 06-30-2009, 01:59 PM

Sorry, I disagree with you... if what you said is true, then why do I still have a deal with same problems? I am still accused by people for same reasons.

Also, I am STILL accused as a homophobe/homophobia. That is why I got a ban from another forum and I was attacked on DeviantART, which I left DA. =/

Oh well.

EDIT: I'm not sure how I can explain it better. Honestly, I don't think Reba is being judgemental. I'm sure she voiced her opinion as I do. But you think she is being pre-judged, I guess I might be one too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

U can disagree but to use words/comments like;

"decay on society"

"If they do that, their marriage has a problem" It is not for others to tell others that their marriage has a problem. It is for the couple themselves to decide that for themselves.

Saying that one is engaging in sinful behaviros. Sinful by whose standards? Maybe the couple doesnt see it that way so it is pointless to preach to them. Everyone has different beliefs. Maybe what one considers a sin isnt a sin to others. So what?

"U have trust issues" That's between the couple to decide not for others outside of the relationship to decide..

To me those kinds of comments and others are considered judgemental.

If one says, "I dont agree with that lifestyle and I wouldnt do it myself." Then that's not judgemental.

See the difference?

It is the same issue with gay marriages. People vote to ban them...why? Because it doesnt adhere to their idea of marriage. What about gay people's idea of marriage?

If u are just disagreeing but dont criticize others for not following what your idea of something is, then no, u are not judgemental.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarissaMann05

Sorry, I disagree with you... if what you said is true, then why do I still have a deal with same problems? I am still accused by people for same reasons.

Also, I am STILL accused as a homophobe/homophobia. That is why I got a ban from another forum and I was attacked on DeviantART, which I left DA. =/

Oh well.

What happened to u on the other forum has nothing to do with my post and it is not my responsibility.

I dont know what problems you are dealing with but it is your decision how u want to take how people write in their posts.

I have been called names before so you arent the only one. I am sure everyone here on AD probably has been called an unflattering name sometime in their lives. Oh well...life goes on.

KarissaMann05 · 06-30-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What happened to u on the other forum has nothing to do with my post and it is not my responsibility.
I dont know what problems you are dealing with but it is your decision how u want to take how people write in their posts.

I know. I merely explained a reason on how people can't handle any opinion, that's all.
I have been called names before so you arent the only one. I am sure everyone here on AD probably has been called an unflattering name sometime in their lives. Oh well...life goes on.

Yeah... =/ Hmmm...

cdaigle430 · 06-30-2009, 03:21 PM

Seems like some people are critical of those who are criticising-anyone else see the irony of this thread? You know-judging people for judging people? I'll stick with the traditional marriage thank you very much.....I'm not trying to change anyones mind and no one here is ever going to change my mind, my take on it is you believe in "whatever makes you sleep better at night". For those who believe in open marriage-probably will be with a different stranger each night.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

b

Sounds more like cheating than open marriage....

(btw, seems like even the traditional vows don't really say anything about monogamy, only loyalty...)

Loyalty, look it up in the dictionary.

I'm not talking about the couple being deceptive to each other. It's about being deceptive to their children, family, friends, co-workers and the society. People who think it doesn't affect anyone but the couple is gravely mistaken. A web of lies can do much more damages than one can possibly imagine.

Again, people do not understand the dangers of deception. Lying is not acceptable, it never was, it isn't today and never will be. People do not benefit from lying. They may at first, but it'll backfire right into their faces later on.

Reba · 06-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Who makes the decisions on what is considered a sin or not?

God.

Quote:

Not everyone hold the same beliefs. I would rather support Open marriages than child abuse, molestation and etc.

What does supporting "open marriages" have to do with child abuse and molestation? I don't support "open marriages" but neither do I support child abuse or molestation.

Quote:

I don't believe in judging other people for what they do in their private lives.

I'm not judging any individuals here. I'm just stating my opinion which is backed up by God's commandments. Other posters here have stated their opinions, backed up by various ways. I'm doing the same.

Reba · 06-30-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Not everyone believes in God..can't force one's beliefs on someone else. That's a sin itself.

Who is "forcing" one's beliefs? Stating one's beliefs is not the same thing as "forcing" them on other people.

The consequences of sinful actions don't require a belief in God. The consequences will happen whether or not someone believes.

Reba · 06-30-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

That's how I feel. I do believe in god though. I just don't see why god would feel so concerned about what people do in their own bedrooms when there is so much killing going on.

God cares about the killing too. God can multi-task.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 05:03 PM

parties involved are still lying to themselves if they think their behavior isn't harmful to themselves and others

That's not judgemental? Projection of one's thoughts into another.

Reba · 06-30-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

...I think the traditional marriage is all very well if it works for you, but sometimes it doesnt.

Sometimes you marry someone who beats you up regularly(in wedlock), or if you get sick or disabled they are out of the door soon afterwards. So the traditional marriages are not without their problems....

Traditional marriage isn't the problem; it's the people within the marriages who cause problems. People are flawed, so their relationships are flawed. That's why they have to depend on an un-flawed God to give them strength, patience, and wisdom. That includes me. I'm flawed, so I turn to God to help me thru life and its problems.

People who beat up their spouses or go out the door when their spouse gets sick or disabled are not behaving in an acceptable way.

C.C.Sinned · 06-30-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I would rather support Open marriages than child abuse, molestation and etc.

I'm semi-confused by this statement. it almost translates to: if you don't support swingers, you're supporting child abuse or molestation...

might want to reword that shel... i know that's not what you mean

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.C.Sinned

I'm semi-confused by this statement. it almost translates to: if you don't support swingers, you're supporting child abuse or molestation...

might want to reword that shel... i know that's not what you mean

Thanls for pointing it out and asking for clarification. U are correct..that's not what I mean.

What I mean was if people want to talk about society decaying or sinful behaviors, I would worry more about those other bahviors I mentioned than what people do in their marriages.

That's just my view and as Karissa and Reba pointed out, they r entitled to their views as well. I was thinking more on the broader spectrum where gay marriage gets voted down because some people's idea of marriages r different than others.

It looks like I could have worded that better!

I guess I just feel bad for people who r different to have to hide themselves from society so they won't get criticized and judged.

For me, I feel any behaviors that directly harm society are child molestation, rape, kidnapping, murder, wars and etc hence my reason for bringing it up.

Daredevel7 · 06-30-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Loyalty, look it up in the dictionary.

I'm not talking about the couple being deceptive to each other. It's about being deceptive to their children, family, friends, co-workers and the society. People who think it doesn't affect anyone but the couple is gravely mistaken. A web of lies can do much more damages than one can possibly imagine.

Again, people do not understand the dangers of deception. Lying is not acceptable, it never was, it isn't today and never will be. People do not benefit from lying. They may at first, but it'll backfire right into their faces later on.

I am not sure where this deception is coming from? Open marriages (at least to me) simply means sex with other people. Parents do not talk about sex with their children. Sometimes they don't even talk about sex with their family. I view open marriages as some sort of an "alternative" sexual behavior. It's the same thing to me as having threesomes, dressing up like a a cheerleader, and so on.

Now if you're talking about people having RELATIONSHIPS with other people while being married.. well then.. that's different. That would seem a little strange to me and very confusing for the kids.....

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I am not sure where this deception is coming from? Open marriages (at least to me) simply means sex with other people. Parents do not talk about sex with their children. Sometimes they don't even talk about sex with their family. I view open marriages as some sort of an "alternative" sexual behavior. It's the same thing to me as having threesomes, dressing up like a a cheerleader, and so on.

Now if you're talking about people having RELATIONSHIPS with other people while being married.. well then.. that's different. That would seem a little strange to me and very confusing for the kids.....

Children don't have to find out about it from their parents, they can find out about it from their peers in school. Again, just look up the word, deception in the dictionary. Maybe you'll get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

It is deception, simple and plain. It's definitely not about loyalty either as well.

Daredevel7 · 06-30-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Children don't have to find out about it from their parents, they can find out about it from their peers in school. Again, just look up the word, deception in the dictionary. Maybe you'll get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

It is deception, simple and plain. It's definitely not about loyalty either as well.

I'd be upset if I knew my parents were having sex with other people but I'd probably be just as upset if they were having weird sex behavior (just the two of them) that everyone knew about. A friend of mine found out that her parents were very much into S&M and she was greatly disturbed by it. Does this mean as parents we have to have normal sex?

Psstt... are you okay?

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Children don't have to find out about it from their parents, they can find out about it from their peers in school. Again, just look up the word, deception in the dictionary. Maybe you'll get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

It is deception, simple and plain. It's definitely not about loyalty either as well.

How would their peers know about it unless the parents are telling their peers about their sex lives? No different than having the dad dress up as a woman and any other kinky sex. Children do not like the idea of parents having sex anyway.

Let me ask you...if the couple are comfortable with it and open about it with each other, how is it deception? Deception to who?

Deception is sneaking off and having affairs behind one person's back.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 06:37 PM

Wanted to add....not everyone uses the traditional vows. Some people write their own so if their vows include having sex with other people, then they are entitled to follow their own vows.

I doubt anyone would put that in their vows anyway but just wanted to point out that not everyone is the same.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

How would their peers know about it unless the parents are telling their peers about their sex lives? No different than having the dad dress up as a woman and any other kinky sex. Children do not like the idea of parents having sex anyway.

Easy, people talk. Are you familiar with the expression, "I heard it through the grapevine"? The children will end up being hurt. They don't want to believe the rumours only to find out they are true. Peers can be incredibly cruel. The parents really need to think of their children first, not their sexual needs.

Quote:

Let me ask you...if the couple are comfortable with it and open about it with each other, how is it deception? Deception to who?

Deception is sneaking off and having affairs behind one person's back.

Look up the word deception in the dictionary. I made it quite clear what I was talking about. Deception hurts more than just the couple.

It does more harm than good.

(shrugs)

That's just how life is. People can try to tell themselves they won't reap what they sow. But that's just self-denial.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'd be upset if I knew my parents were having sex with other people but I'd probably be just as upset if they were having weird sex behavior (just the two of them) that everyone knew about. A friend of mine found out that her parents were very much into S&M and she was greatly disturbed by it. Does this mean as parents we have to have normal sex?

Psstt... are you okay?

I'm perfectly okay. Thanks for asking.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Easy, people talk. Are you familiar with the expression, "I heard it through the grapevine"? The children will end up being hurt. They don't want to believe the rumours only to find out they are true. Peers can be incredibly cruel. The parents really need to think of their children first, not their sexual needs.

Look up the word deception in the dictionary. I made it quite clear what I was talking about. Deception hurts more than just the couple.

It does more harm than good.

(shrugs)

That's just how life is. People can try to tell themselves they won't reap what they sow. But that's just self-denial.

That's your opinion. Everyone has their own opinion. If one doesnt believe in it, then dont engage in it but there are going to be people who will do it and nobody will stop them.

Daredevel7 · 06-30-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Easy, people talk. Are you familiar with the expression, "I heard it through the grapevine"? The children will end up being hurt. They don't want to believe the rumours only to find out they are true. Peers can be incredibly cruel. The parents really need to think of their children first, not their sexual needs.

Look up the word deception in the dictionary. I made it quite clear what I was talking about. Deception hurts more than just the couple.

It does more harm than good.

(shrugs)

That's just how life is. People can try to tell themselves they won't reap what they sow. But that's just self-denial.

Okay, what about the case of a married couple with no kids? What's your opinion?

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's your opinion. Everyone has their own opinion. If one doesnt believe in it, then dont engage in it but there are going to be people who will do it and nobody will stop them.

And they shall reap what they sow. Sorry, but that's just how life is. I don't make the rules.

P.S., I know it's my opinion. I don't need to be reminded of that.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Okay, what about the case of a married couple with no kids? What's your opinion?

Regardless of if they have kids or not, they are emotionally immature and incapable of understanding the concept of loyalty and the consequences of the choices they make.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

And they shall reap what they sow. Sorry, but that's just how life is. I don't make the rules.

P.S., I know it's my opinion. I don't need to be reminded of that.

No problem at all.

Daredevel7 · 06-30-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Regardless of if they have kids or not, they are emotionally immature and incapable of understanding the concept of loyalty and the consequences of the choices they make.

To be mature in your eyes, they must suppress their sexual desires? No guest stars? Quite sad.

I wouldn't be surprised to know if there are married couples (with no kids) who are perfectly happy with living together and having the freedom to have sex with others. Too bad that they would be judged solely on the fact they don't live up to the vows based on other people's views, therefore they are being "deceptive".

(BTW.... think about a couple where the guy is paraplegic and cannot have sex and he feels horrible about not being able to satisfy his wife, so he wants her to get her satisfaction elsewhere... is that so wrong?)

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

To be mature in your eyes, they must suppress their sexual desires? No guest stars? Quite sad.

I wouldn't be surprised to know if there are married couples (with no kids) who are perfectly happy with living together and having the freedom to have sex with others. Too bad that they would be judged solely on the fact they don't live up to the vows based on other people's views, therefore they are being "deceptive".

(BTW.... think about a couple where the guy is paraplegic and cannot have sex and he feels horrible about not being able to satisfy his wife, so he wants her to get her satisfaction elsewhere... is that so wrong?)

I agree with u on that.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

(BTW.... think about a couple where the guy is paraplegic and cannot have sex and he feels horrible about not being able to satisfy his wife, so he wants her to get her satisfaction elsewhere... is that so wrong?)

For rich or for poor, in sickness and in health.

Life's a bitch sometimes. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

shel90 · 06-30-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

For rich or for poor, in sickness and in health.

Life's a bitch sometimes. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Not all couples follow the traditional vows and write their own vows which may not include this statement.

Banjo · 06-30-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I wouldn't be surprised to know if there are married couples (with no kids) who are perfectly happy with living together and having the freedom to have sex with others. Too bad that they would be judged solely on the fact they don't live up to the vows based on other people's views, therefore they are being "deceptive".

People who cannot abide to their vows are not people of their words.

06-30-2009, 05:03 PM	#70 (permalink)
shel90 In a pink and black world Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the land of the free Posts: 23,649 Blog Entries: 3	parties involved are still lying to themselves if they think their behavior isn't harmful to themselves and others That's not judgemental? Projection of one's thoughts into another. __________________ Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

06-30-2009, 06:37 PM	#78 (permalink)
shel90 In a pink and black world Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the land of the free Posts: 23,649 Blog Entries: 3	Wanted to add....not everyone uses the traditional vows. Some people write their own so if their vows include having sex with other people, then they are entitled to follow their own vows. I doubt anyone would put that in their vows anyway but just wanted to point out that not everyone is the same. __________________ Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

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06-30-2009, 03:21 PM	#65 (permalink)
cdaigle430 RinconRider Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 200	Seems like some people are critical of those who are criticising-anyone else see the irony of this thread? You know-judging people for judging people? I'll stick with the traditional marriage thank you very much.....I'm not trying to change anyones mind and no one here is ever going to change my mind, my take on it is you believe in "whatever makes you sleep better at night". For those who believe in open marriage-probably will be with a different stranger each night.