Reusable Grocery Bags May Poison You - Page 5

**Liebling:-)))** · 06-09-2009, 12:03 AM

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Originally Posted by naisho

Yeah, technically you can keep a plastic bag alive for a very long time because pure oxygen air does not degrade Ethylene.
As you don't leave it decomposing with some elements that can react with it, like next to a fireplace combustion of heat and CO2.

Logical yes the plastic bag can stay alive for a long time if you leave plastic bag without use them.

I mean, to use plastic bag frequently like I use plastic jug frequently for kitchen. I was in the USA, I got plenty of plastic bags, I bought something from shopping. It hole easily as I put something in the plastic bag. After vacation in the USA, I went back to Germany with US plastic bag... it wore out easy so I throw them to plastic container for recyling.

I also have over 10 years old plastic bin for mop on the floor. I use it frequently.

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Common plastic bags, milk jugs most consumer plastics are made from the substance of Polyethylene. It is the most basic form of plastic available, that serves its purpose well for its properties. There's two different forms now, one is the common plastic that can kill animals (which we are talking about here), and biodegradable plastic has came out for some time also (which is more expensive)

From common chemistry you will learn that anything called plastic is called organic, and anything organic, contains the element Carbon in it. I spoke about this once in the Organic food thread somewhere.

The construction of Polyethylene itself is simple, you take Ethylene.. 2 Carbon, 4 Hydrogen atoms (C2H4) itself, and then you polymerize it for the final product.

Everyday, you will see Ethylene in some form or another and you might not even know it, not even limited to plastic. It's one of the simplest compounds, and used in many basic plastics, from sandwich bags to milk jugs to water/soda bottles to almost everything.

You may have heard of the word Polyurethane before, it is similar in the category but the difference between polyurethane vs polyethylene is that urethane is a lot stronger than ethylene, most notably due to the fact that the structure has more elements in it. Urethane is consisted of the elements, C3H7NO2 - 3 Carbons, 7 Hydrogens, 1 Nitrogen, and 2 Oxygen.

Polyurethane is use also in a LOT of common plastics as well, it's the higher grade plastic. One most common item you might know already, but you might not know that it did have this substance, is a condom.

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Here in the USA we are very wasteful as you knew already. Most common Americans do not care as far as to recycle common aluminum/paper/plastic, we still will throw away other forms of plastic and recyclable stuff into the trash.

Yes I can see that the plastic is very common in the USA. I was shock when I saw plastic EVERYWHERE in the USA. It´s my cultural shock. I collect some plastic when I was in the USA, to show my family and friends in Germany.

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Wow, it sounds like Germany has a very strict recycling process down. That's a good merit you and your country should be commented and applauded in your efforts for.

Oh yes, very strict.

We will pay €1,000 penalty fine if I violate enviorment-friendly law.

They won´t empty my bin if they see papers in trash bin or trash in paper bin. They notifed us that they won´t empty my containers unless I sort things away to right containers (I have 3 containers for paper, plastic and trash)... If I ignore twice then they inform authority.

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But overall, I still think the big problem is humans, as in homo sapiens. If we wanted the animals to be true to their nature and have TRUE freedom to do what they want, then human technology or humans must die first. It's just the way nature of life needs to work.

Well, we started to learn in 1980s after the enviornment law spread out. Each person CAN learn and accept when something change.

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PS. Did you know, that it was a German who created polyethylene?

Actually, the link explains better than me... it´s also polyethylene included as well.

British Plastics Federation - A History of Plastics

***naisho*** · 06-09-2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

I mean, to use plastic bag frequently like I use plastic jug frequently for kitchen. I was in the USA, I got plenty of plastic bags, I bought something from shopping. It hole easily as I put something in the plastic bag. After vacation in the USA, I went back to Germany with US plastic bag... it wore out easy so I throw them to plastic container for recyling.

Oh, yes that's true. Milk jugs will find more reuse than a typical plastic bag. Here in the USA typically the bags will end up in the trash can, for me, after 1-2 uses. I generally keep them all and use it as waste container for the trash can, even though it's not good.. But I know my waste is going to the Irvine Landfill in CA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Actually, the link explains better than me... it´s also polyethylene included as well.
British Plastics Federation - A History of Plastics

Wow.. that's interesting.
My book told me that Chemist Hans von Pechmann of Germany was founder of polyethylene! I think my Chem book may be wrong.. So it's UK that made it now?

***naisho*** · 06-09-2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Well, we started to learn in 1980s after the enviornment law spread out. Each person CAN learn and accept when something change.

Bear with me, this will be a long post but hopefully if you read it through, you will understand what's my thinking, about how I see the animals

Yeah.. slowly over time it may change. But there is something missing.
The problem is animals are becoming extinct because we can't take care of our planet, that's the biggest issue.

What I'm referring to though.. is called 'impact of humans on natural evolution'.

Think this way.. the way from a scientist view:
A real animal has no limits, they can do freely what they want. True?
Animals living in the zoo are not living a real animal life True?

When a human feels threatened by say, Mountain Lions or cougars here in USA, we will trap them or shoot them, or put them back in the wild. Any bear invasion, bobcats, rattlesnakes, all these predators; we have defenses to protect ourself, right?

And all is OK if we don't kill them and put them back in the wild, right?

Yes.. that's true it's good, however you may want to see what I will explain now:

Here is the deeper cause I am referring to. This is what the evolution theorists will argue about.. Not from Darwin, but another theorist - Jean Baptiste Lamarck.

What I see is the evolution is supposed to be constantly changing animals. No animal is always supposed to remain the same. Birds were once land animals that grew wings because they needed to fly, Crocodiles were once fish who moved onto land to get more food. Turtles are perfect example of half fish, half marine animal.

This picture may explain what I'm saying for you.. it's called the theory of Macroevolution. It's still a theory that is nethier proved wrong, but seems possible to be a correct answer. You know a Wolf, a Hyena, a Coyote, a Fox, a Jackal maybe. Aren't they all similar creatures, but different?

This is because.. have a look:

This is the basis of how they came out; because they were all one creature before, but something changed some of them through time. Maybe the food they ate. Or the prey they caught. Or the weather and temperature where they lived. Or other predators that live with them.
Like the Fox adapted to forest lands. The Jackal and Hyena live in the Savannas of Africa. The Coyote is the mountains. And the Wolves are from many places, the snowlands for one.

Things change the creatures because when they are #1, they will do what they need in order to survive. The weak creatures, who cannot survive to the land.. they will die and become extinct. This word we have for this, is called Natural selection the animals that can reproduce the most and survive the longest, are the ones who live.

The weak animals that could not face this challenge.. like Dodo birds for one example, they died.

Then us, Humans came along. We were challenged with the animals at first.. afraid of Tigers, Lions, because all we had were spears, sticks and stones long time ago. We then have one edge over the animals.. our brain for logical thinking and reasoning, and our technology. Eventually, 1500's-1700's-1900's etc, we got guns, machines, automobiles, chemicals, you name it.. We have everything we need against animals on land and air. Notice, we do not control the ocean as you know, our power there is limited.

Between 1700's, and 1900's the world changed drastically. We went from Colonial era, into industrialization era into massive technology of the 2000's. You can say, the humans, we are the kings of the earth, right?

This is the problem. Because we are kings, no matter how courteous with the animals, they can never adapt anymore in order to succeed us. Unless something happens, like I said a few times already.. The humans must die or the technology must die in order for the animals to regain domination over the world.
The true nature of any animal, is to become the top! they must survive!

When we as humans are the top of everything, we REGULATE everything. Which means, what we do affects the animals even if it's not harming them.

Your cats, are home animals. If they were still the real animals they should have been, they should be living in the forests or mountains or wherever they should have been.. eating real mice, animals and other creatures.

Because humans have domesticated the cat, it will remain unchanged forever.
Why will it need to grow strong sharp claws like a tiger? Smaller suits it fine since it doesn't hunt creatures for food; we feed them.
Why will your cat need to grow stronger eyes, or ears to hear further? It doesn't need to hunt anymore.

What you just read above, about your cats, is the impact of humans on evolution. Even if it looks like we aren't doing anything wrong.

It's not limited to just cats, it's just about every animal in the world. Like dogs, horses, everything.

When we capture a bear and put it back in the forest, it goes back to live its normal life again. It doesn't get the opportunity to evolve, or change. If the bear was able to kill humans and was not afraid of weapons and our traps, all of the bears would come and eat human food, kill humans, evolve to kill humans easier; maybe longer claws, more teeth, or stronger eyes.

When an animal is evolving in order to claim domination, they will select the features that's best for them to keep them as the winners.

If they have no need to become #1, or they can't, then they will always remain the same unless they die out.

If you want to see it the way I observe our world now, because humans are number 1 here on earth, we have put all of the animals in a "giant invisible zoo". Even we didn't put them in a cage or bars, they are still in an invisible zoo.
Because in a zoo, the animal can't change; it is in a controlled environment - how WE as humans want them to be, not how THEY want to live!

Now.. if you were reading what I said earlier.. remember what I said about the Ocean. This is the only place humans don't have complete control over.

Did you notice, that in the ocean, we always find many many different varieties of sea creatures, more than we do on land?
Different varieties of fish, sharks, urchins, starfish, whales.. many things!

This is because.. think about it. The humans cannot control the ocean, we only control the coast and the beaches, and the islands. In the deep sea out of our grasp, the animals down in there are always fighting for the #1 seat. This is the key to how I see they are always changing constantly, and how our impact does not bother them.

Can you say the same about land animals?

I hope I made sense.. if not, please let me know and I can clarify. This is my opinion only, I just hope you can understand how I see the way macroevolution works.

~*Kaelei*~ · 06-09-2009, 02:31 PM

I reuse the Milk Jug. I would rinse the milk jug and then fill it up with water, then I would put ten tea bags into it. Then I would set it outside for the day, so the sun will shine on it, then it would be Ice Tea for me.

That's how I would reuse the Milk Jug.... I'm big drinker of the Ice Tea.

I hate the taste of water...from Tap and from bottle water. I prefer Sparkling water. Sparkling flavored water is my fav.

**Phillips** · 06-11-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Reusable Grocery Bags May Poison You | NBC Washington

Bags are just mobile bacteria farms

By SARA K. SMITH

Updated 11:38 PM EDT, Thu, May 21, 2009

Related Topics: Sara Smith | Environment and Plastics Industry Council | NBC Universal Inc. | Wonkette.com

45 Comments Post a Comment Print Email Share
ShareDel.icio.usBuzz up!MySpaceDigg FarkFacebookBuzz up!

.What's in that bag? A loaf of bread, a head of lettuce ... and an extra generous helping of fecal coliform bacteria!

Oh you people, with your cheap little eco-friendly grocery bags, smiling smugly at the shameful people exiting the supermarket with paper and plastic single-use bags! Did you know that your reusable bags are crawling with disease, bacteria and hideous little creepies that may poison you?

Green Celebrities
View SlideshowCheck out these celebrities who try to keep the environment clean by going green.
It's true! A new study proves it!

Swab-testing by two independent laboratories found unacceptably high levels of bacteria, yeast, mold and coliform counts in the reusable bags.

Ugh, gross. It turns out that hippie grocery bags are no less filthy than the hippie foods that people put into them. And what you end up with is a wet, dirty pocket of disease that you proudly tote your uncooked meats in. You might as well cart your food around in a toilet.

So what can you do to avoid food poisoning from your reusable grocery bags? Number one and most obviously, you can stop using these ridiculous things and go back to using good ol' plastic bags, which have never harmed anyone physically -- if you disregard the people who put them over their heads. In fact, it was the blameless, public health-minded humanitarians at the Environment and Plastics Industry Council who commissioned the study.

Alas, more and more Americans, and even Canadians, have fallen under the sway of reusable grocery bags. From North Carolina to Connecticut, local governments are looking for ways to encourage citizens to drop their plastic bags. This is a terrible tragedy, because without plastic bags we would not have recycling, and recycling is such a great thing for the environment!

If you insist on continuing your love affair with swampy old reusable bags crawling with fecal matter and lettuce mites, just be sure to toss them in the wash with about a gallon of bleach after every use. Do the same with your produce, dairy selections and deli fixins. Safety first!

Food safety expert Sara K. Smith writes for NBC and Wonkette.

Copyright NBC Local Media

What! huh? Jeez

...

06-09-2009, 02:31 PM	#124 (permalink)
~Kaelei~ Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, Washington Posts: 1,571	I reuse the Milk Jug. I would rinse the milk jug and then fill it up with water, then I would put ten tea bags into it. Then I would set it outside for the day, so the sun will shine on it, then it would be Ice Tea for me. That's how I would reuse the Milk Jug.... I'm big drinker of the Ice Tea. I hate the taste of water...from Tap and from bottle water. I prefer Sparkling water. Sparkling flavored water is my fav. __________________

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