This hearing woman says that mental illness is a Myth - ASL video - Page 7

Hear Again · 02-07-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Yes, it is very illogic. Like thinking there were nobody with Asperger until 1990's.

what's so illogical about it? a person cannot be diagnosed with asperger's in 1970 if there was no known diagnosis for it at the time.

hence, the importance of not making self-diagnoses and leaving that up to the professionals.

jillio · 02-07-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Yes, that's right. Various conditions existed before they were officially listed or known about.

In the case of the Autism diagnoses the criteria was already quite specific but it only refered to people who suffered from Kanner type autism. Not asperger syndrome. So a lot of Asperger's went undiagnosed. They were still Autistic but their parents were accused of spoiling them or they were missdiagnosed with mental health problems and shut away in mental hospitals. Or they ended up in prison.

Uh....autism is considered a mental health diagnosis. That is why it is covered under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychiatric Disorders.

jillio · 02-07-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

Yes, it is very illogic. Like thinking there were nobody with Asperger until 1990's.

Find me a single case of one person being diagnosed with Asperger's prior to the time when the diagnosis was included in the DSM. You can't do it. They were diagnosed with high functioning autism.

Hear Again · 02-07-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreama

So a lot of Asperger's went undiagnosed. They were still Autistic but their parents were accused of spoiling them or they were missdiagnosed with mental health problems and shut away in mental hospitals. Or they ended up in prison.

proof, please.

**Jiro** · 02-07-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So you don't think they had the disease? That doesn't make sense. People only started having bipolar in 1950? Why? What on earth suddenly started changing people's brain chemistry THAT year?

OK - I can see where you're coming from but these kind of things DO happen to occur at certain era. For example - in old time... prostrate cancer is UNHEARD of. Now prostate cancer is commonsome. why? because of advanced medical technology and improved sanitation/hygiene practice... our lives have been extended far longer than ever. Because of that - many new diseases and cancers have popped up.

Now for bipolar that just came out of nowhere in 1950... because we don't know for sure... I'm just pulling it out of my ass - maybe it's because of aggressive progression of technology that had unintended side effects on us... for ie - massive electrical field (computers, tv, radios, cellphones, ipod, etc). thousand of nuclear power plants. ubiquitous use of drugs - hundred different traces of medications are even in your tap water but at very harmless level.

scientists have a very strict, thorough methodology and system to categorize condition/disease/illness/etc. and that takes time. because of this thorough practice - million of lives have been saved. if we go by dreama's way... there's no doubt that it would create gigantic, disorganized mess and we would not be at this level of medical advancement because you'd have several names for same illness.

Hear Again · 02-07-2009, 08:25 PM

jiro!

in terms of manic-depression/bipolar being diagnosed in the 1950s, it wasn't until recently that it was discovered bipolar was due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. it has long been known that bipolar had genetic components, but the facts concerning chemical imbalance is fairly recent. hence, my point about the importance of conducting research before a diagnosis is made. aside from that, one cannot provide treatment for a given disorder until said research is completed. for instance, it was only in the 1970s that rapid cycling was attributed to the use of anti-depressants in some people who have bipolar. this is why research is so important and the reason why a person with a given disorder can't suffer from it until an official diagnosis is reached and solid research in regards to symptomatology and treatments are made.

jillio · 02-07-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

OK - I can see where you're coming from but these kind of things DO happen to occur at certain era. For example - in old time... prostrate cancer is UNHEARD of. Now prostate cancer is commonsome. why? because of advanced medical technology and improved sanitation/hygiene practice... our lives have been extended far longer than ever. Because of that - many new diseases and cancers have popped up.

Now for bipolar that just came out of nowhere in 1950... because we don't know for sure... I'm just pulling it out of my ass - maybe it's because of aggressive progression of technology that had unintended side effects on us... for ie - massive electrical field (computers, tv, radios, cellphones, ipod, etc). thousand of nuclear power plants. ubiquitous use of drugs - hundred different traces of medications are even in your tap water but at very harmless level.

scientists have a very strict, thorough methodology and system to categorize condition/disease/illness/etc. and that takes time. because of this thorough practice - million of lives have been saved. if we go by dreama's way... there's no doubt that it would create gigantic, disorganized mess and we would not be at this level of medical advancement because you'd have several names for same illness.

Well said, jiro. There are many forces at work creating disease and disorders, and diagnosis is much more that a wild guess.

Mrs Bucket · 02-07-2009, 09:20 PM

I don't know which is worst.

A healthy hypochondriac with a medical dictionary or an ignorant person totally in bliss being dense.

Hear Again · 02-07-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

I don't know which is worst.

A healthy hypochondriac with a medical dictionary or an ignorant person totally in bliss being dense.

i'd say an ignorant person totally in bliss being dense is worse. after all, knowledge is power and at the very least, a hypochondriac equipped with a medical dictionary is armed with knowledge even if he or she doesn't have any disorders or illnesses. furthermore, the hypochondriac is hurting no one but themselves whereas the ignorant person could be hurting others based on the type of misinformation they spread.

**Smithtr** · 02-08-2009, 06:47 PM

i have mental illnes because really seizure really easy scared I am concern about to medication. I am very serious I am scared missing my medication supposed doctor said you are must everyday always right medication to take medication at time. Important to you responsibility that is serious. iunderstand what is happened group home responsiblity but Government kick out Ryan is supervisor's boss strict to order you listen to govemnet what is happened Ryan will fired soon I complaint to mental illness I talk to Evan support to help for me. I another group home. I hope be wait to soon transfer for group home. I am happy I sue to Ryan fines or cost give me owe. I have right my health reason warned to problem you tell to serious That is not funny

**shel90** · 02-08-2009, 06:56 PM

I am a little lost...

Jillo and Jiro...are u saying that before the discoveries, certain diseases or illnessness whether physical or mental were never experienced by people?

**Jiro** · 02-08-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I am a little lost...

Jillo and Jiro...are u saying that before the discoveries, certain diseases or illnessness whether physical or mental were never experienced by people?

well - that can be the case. That's why I made prostate cancer example. It was PROBABLY never experienced in old time because it was never documented or detected by doctors since people don't live long enough. The life expectancy was about 40 years old. We all know that prostate cancer is mostly "old man disease". But we'll never know if the people really did have prostrate cancer in old time because they're dead! That's what Jillio was saying. How can you diagnose something on dead body?

Another case is... migraine. Before a certain disease/illness is OFFICIALLY-recognized and named in medical book... it has to be well-researched and well-documented and MOST IMPORTANTLY........ WELL-UNDERSTOOD.

For example - migraine was considered as "common headache" and we've had it for thousand of years. Obviously.... migraine can EASILY be seen as a common headache and it's different for everybody. some gets bad headache... some gets mild headache... but migraine is NO typical headache and typical headache remedy does not work. With modern understanding of science and technology... the medical community finally recognized it as "MIGRAINE" with its own description, diagnosis, symptoms, and medications - separate from common headache.

So by going dreama's way.... it's VERY dangerous and irresponsible. by going her way - this is what could happen. The doctors will call "bad headache" as migraine and "mild headache" as a headache and a "bad migraine" as "bad bad migraine". OYE VEY!! how confusing!!! Because of extremely thorough process - migraine and headache are DIFFERENT from each other even though both looks same thing to untrained eyes... and that way - we're able to come up with cure/treatment for it.

does that make any better sense for you?

Byrdie714 · 02-08-2009, 07:13 PM

Remember the medical technologies have made a difference in the last 100 years too.

**shel90** · 02-08-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

well - that can be the case. That's why I made prostate cancer example. It was PROBABLY never experienced in old time because it was never documented or detected by doctors since people don't live long enough. The life expectancy was about 40 years old. We all know that prostate cancer is mostly "old man disease". But we'll never know if the people really did have prostrate cancer in old time because they're dead! That's what Jillio was saying. How can you diagnose something on dead body?

Another case is... migraine. Before a certain disease/illness is OFFICIALLY-recognized and named in medical book... it has to be well-researched and well-documented and MOST IMPORTANTLY........ WELL-UNDERSTOOD.

For example - migraine was considered as "common headache" and we've had it for thousand of years. Obviously.... migraine can EASILY be seen as a common headache and it's different for everybody. some gets bad headache... some gets mild headache... but migraine is NO typical headache and typical headache remedy does not work. With modern understanding of science and technology... the medical community finally recognized it as "MIGRAINE" with its own description, diagnosis, symptoms, and medications - separate from common headache.

does that make any better sense for you?

That was what I thought u were saying before but I wanted to make sure.

I was saying before with Hear Again that there are stories of people who had the devil in them in the old days cuz of their odd behaviors. It is possible they had mental illness but wasnt understood nor recognized but from my understanding of Hear Again's comments that mental illnesses didnt exist back then.

**Jiro** · 02-08-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That was what I thought u were saying before but I wanted to make sure.

I was saying before with Hear Again that there are stories of people who had the devil in them in the old days cuz of their odd behaviors. It is possible they had mental illness but wasnt understood nor recognized but from my understanding of Hear Again's comments that mental illnesses didnt exist back then.

whoops! you missed my last-minute edit.

Quote:

So by going dreama's way.... it's VERY dangerous and irresponsible. by going her way - this is what could happen. The doctors will call "bad headache" as migraine and "mild headache" as a headache and a "bad migraine" as "bad bad migraine". OYE VEY!! how confusing!!! Because of extremely thorough process - migraine and headache are DIFFERENT from each other even though both looks same thing to untrained eyes... and that way - we're able to come up with cure/treatment for it.

About your post - yes there you go. the "crazy devil possessed her" thing. Those poor people in past... I don't want to think about how they were treated.

jillio · 02-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

well - that can be the case. That's why I made prostate cancer example. It was PROBABLY never experienced in old time because it was never documented or detected by doctors since people don't live long enough. The life expectancy was about 40 years old. We all know that prostate cancer is mostly "old man disease". But we'll never know if the people really did have prostrate cancer in old time because they're dead! That's what Jillio was saying. How can you diagnose something on dead body?

Another case is... migraine. Before a certain disease/illness is OFFICIALLY-recognized and named in medical book... it has to be well-researched and well-documented and MOST IMPORTANTLY........ WELL-UNDERSTOOD.

For example - migraine was considered as "common headache" and we've had it for thousand of years. Obviously.... migraine can EASILY be seen as a common headache and it's different for everybody. some gets bad headache... some gets mild headache... but migraine is NO typical headache and typical headache remedy does not work. With modern understanding of science and technology... the medical community finally recognized it as "MIGRAINE" with its own description, diagnosis, symptoms, and medications - separate from common headache.

So by going dreama's way.... it's VERY dangerous and irresponsible. by going her way - this is what could happen. The doctors will call "bad headache" as migraine and "mild headache" as a headache and a "bad migraine" as "bad bad migraine". OYE VEY!! how confusing!!! Because of extremely thorough process - migraine and headache are DIFFERENT from each other even though both looks same thing to untrained eyes... and that way - we're able to come up with cure/treatment for it.

does that make any better sense for you?

I won't add anything because Jiro explained it well. Just wanted to add that diagnosing mental disorders on someone who is dead is next to impossible because so much of the diagnosis is dependent upon behaviors.

jillio · 02-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

whoops! you missed my last-minute edit.

About your post - yes there you go. the "crazy devil possessed her" thing. Those poor people in past... I don't want to think about how they were treated.

If you go back that far, they were treated with something called "trephining". Basically, they drilled a hole in the skull to let the "evil spirits" out. This also usually resulted in the death of the patient.

**Bottesini** · 02-09-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I won't add anything because Jiro explained it well. Just wanted to add that diagnosing mental disorders on someone who is dead is next to impossible because so much of the diagnosis is dependent upon behaviors.

I think everyone is aware you can't diagnose posthumously, but it is a stretch to say schizophrenia and other biologically based illness did not exist before it was named.

**Jiro** · 02-09-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

If you go back that far, they were treated with something called "trephining". Basically, they drilled a hole in the skull to let the "evil spirits" out. This also usually resulted in the death of the patient.

**Jiro** · 02-09-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think everyone is aware you can't diagnose posthumously, but it is a stretch to say schizophrenia and other biologically based illness did not exist before it was named.

yes. just like migraine - it PROBABLY has existed before it was officially-recognized. But we'll never know since they're already dead. let bygones be bygones.

jillio · 02-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I think everyone is aware you can't diagnose posthumously, but it is a stretch to say schizophrenia and other biologically based illness did not exist before it was named.

I didn't mean to imply that. I was simply saying that the symptoms existed, but were diagnosed as something else based on the knowledge and tools available at the time. So, while the symptoms of schizophrenia may have existed, the diagnosis of schizophrenia did not. And, we can't be sure whether someone who suffered schizophrenia like symptoms would have been diagnosed as schizophrenic today because we don't have all of the information necessary to determine that.

**Bottesini** · 02-09-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I didn't mean to imply that. I was simply saying that the symptoms existed, but were diagnosed as something else based on the knowledge and tools available at the time. So, while the symptoms of schizophrenia may have existed, the diagnosis of schizophrenia did not. And, we can't be sure whether someone who suffered schizophrenia like symptoms would have been diagnosed as schizophrenic today because we don't have all of the information necessary to determine that.

Right, that is what I wanted to see brought out. If anyone is being educated by this, it is important they understand it is not as (trying for tact here) concrete as someone in the grip of uncontrolled mental illness, thinks that what we call bipolar didn't exist at all before it was named.

**Smithtr** · 02-11-2009, 08:23 PM

i have mental illness worst my personal disorder, ADHH, OCD That is cause sick, someone told me many too much disorder too much that is worst Smithtr getting sick that is not good health. I go to psyciast to help change your medication That is why reason important to help you medication

That is important to mental illness

That is having Saskatoon Group Home take care watch your medication.

Thank you support to fund money for medcation coverage to my health Safety

wonderful

Hear Again · 02-16-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I didn't mean to imply that. I was simply saying that the symptoms existed, but were diagnosed as something else based on the knowledge and tools available at the time. So, while the symptoms of schizophrenia may have existed, the diagnosis of schizophrenia did not. And, we can't be sure whether someone who suffered schizophrenia like symptoms would have been diagnosed as schizophrenic today because we don't have all of the information necessary to determine that.

This is what I was trying to say as well albeit poorly.

02-08-2009, 06:56 PM	#191 (permalink)
shel90 Let It Snow!!!! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: A place where crabs are popular Posts: 40,294 Blog Entries: 3	I am a little lost... Jillo and Jiro...are u saying that before the discoveries, certain diseases or illnessness whether physical or mental were never experienced by people? __________________ "Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it." --- Anonymous

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02-07-2009, 08:25 PM	#186 (permalink)
Hear Again Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,122 Blog Entries: 6	jiro! in terms of manic-depression/bipolar being diagnosed in the 1950s, it wasn't until recently that it was discovered bipolar was due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. it has long been known that bipolar had genetic components, but the facts concerning chemical imbalance is fairly recent. hence, my point about the importance of conducting research before a diagnosis is made. aside from that, one cannot provide treatment for a given disorder until said research is completed. for instance, it was only in the 1970s that rapid cycling was attributed to the use of anti-depressants in some people who have bipolar. this is why research is so important and the reason why a person with a given disorder can't suffer from it until an official diagnosis is reached and solid research in regards to symptomatology and treatments are made.

02-07-2009, 09:20 PM	#188 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	I don't know which is worst. A healthy hypochondriac with a medical dictionary or an ignorant person totally in bliss being dense.

02-08-2009, 06:47 PM	#190 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,668	i have mental illnes because really seizure really easy scared I am concern about to medication. I am very serious I am scared missing my medication supposed doctor said you are must everyday always right medication to take medication at time. Important to you responsibility that is serious. iunderstand what is happened group home responsiblity but Government kick out Ryan is supervisor's boss strict to order you listen to govemnet what is happened Ryan will fired soon I complaint to mental illness I talk to Evan support to help for me. I another group home. I hope be wait to soon transfer for group home. I am happy I sue to Ryan fines or cost give me owe. I have right my health reason warned to problem you tell to serious That is not funny

02-08-2009, 07:13 PM	#193 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,941	Remember the medical technologies have made a difference in the last 100 years too.

02-11-2009, 08:23 PM	#203 (permalink)
Smithtr Siberian Husky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 14,668	i have mental illness worst my personal disorder, ADHH, OCD That is cause sick, someone told me many too much disorder too much that is worst Smithtr getting sick that is not good health. I go to psyciast to help change your medication That is why reason important to help you medication That is important to mental illness That is having Saskatoon Group Home take care watch your medication. Thank you support to fund money for medcation coverage to my health Safety wonderful