Hear Again

that's what i thought. for answering my question, jillio.

Deafness

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jillio

You're welcome.

dreama

Jilli and Hear again:
You completely miss my point. I was born BEFORE asperger syndrome became recognised as a valid illness. Which is the point I'm trying to make about BIID and PASS.

Just because it wasn't valid in 1977 when I was moved to a special school for disabled children doesn't mean that it didn't exist. My parents wouldn't have transfered me to a special school if their had been nothing wrong.

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Jiro

give it up...... if you're really passionate about this whole shibang... why don't you go for medical college?

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jillio

No, dear. I haven't missed your point at all. Asperger's contains features that do not fit into any other diagnostic classification. That is why, when it was identified, it was added to the DSM.

That is like saying that you were misdiagnosed from having AIDS before it was even discovered as an illness. AIDS was not included in diagnostic manuals until it was identified. And, because it does not fit any other classification, it was added as a separate diagnosis.

dreama

I have a right to express my opinion. Please reaspect that.

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Jiro

??????? That has nothing to do with my comment. I'm suggesting you to go to medical school since you're so passionated about this whole medical-related thing. Studying at medical school would really really help with your cause because it's something that your opinion can actually be substantiated with. It's certainly lot better than having your opinion backed with fallacious bloggers and wikipedia. You can actually use knowledge gained from medical school for your agenda. You will not become like Jillio if that's what you're worried about

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jillio

Exactly. Diagnosis actually requires much more than unsubstantiated opinion.

Jiro

oop! you missed my edit - "It's certainly lot better than having your opinion backed with fallacious bloggers and wikipedia. You can actually use knowledge gained from medical school for your agenda. You will not become like Jillio if that's what you're worried about "

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jillio

Jiro

Dreama - there are PLENTY PLENTY of doctors who share your same view. The only MAJOR difference between them and you is that they have VALID reasons & source/research/statistic to back their view... but you don't. That's why I was making a friendly suggestion that you should go for medical school since you're incredibly passionate about this issue.

Not always do they win in debate/Supreme Court arguments but their arguments are sound and valid... the source they used carry weight. sometimes it's just not good enough to convince people but there's always another time, another battle to fight. War's not over. Doctors who share same views as jillio do win some, lose some just as much as doctors who share your view.

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jillio

Exactly. But the doctors that share my views, and even those who don't, are my colleagues. That is the point.

dreama

Anyone can express an opinion. Not just a doctor. In my mind a doctor's opinion actually carries less weight then someone who suffers with a LEGITAMATE diagnoses that just wasn't around when I needed to be. It camea bout 20 years later. So I am in a possition to understand other people who also have mental health problems that aren't considered 'legitamate' now but maybe in they will in my future.

I stand by my views. I don't need to attend medical school to have an opinion.

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Byrdie714

I'm confused......:scratch:

So--you need diagnosis when it applies to you? Or picking and choosing which diagnosis applies to you when it doesn't?

Secondly how can one be in the position to understand other people who have mental health problems when it's not even diagnosed?

jillio

Doctors don't express an opinion. They use a systematic formula for arriving at a diagnosis. They have access to information that the layperson doesn't, and most important of all, are objective. That, quite obviously from your posts, is something that you don't have when it comes to making a diagnosis.

And,yes, you can have an opinion. What you can't do, but have attempted to do, is present your opinion as valid diagnosis.

dreama

It's quite simple really. Asperger syndrome was not on the list of disorders until 1990's.

I was born with asperger syndrome in 1970. My parents had the problem with diagnoses. I had the problem of being punished for things that I couldn't help.

I was born with Asperger synrome 20 years BEFORE asperger syndrome was recognised as a viable condition.

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jillio

Then you were no doubt diagnosed with something else that met the diagnostic criteria for the symptoms that you manifested. Hindsight is 20/20.

dreama

I don't think I was. I think that my parents just got me in the special school because I also had an underactive thyroid, petit mal epilepsy and mild deafness. I AM now diagnosed with asperger syndrome since the criterior changed but that didn't happen till after I grew up. I wouldn't have been diagnosed with Kanner type autism because I didn't suffer from it but at the time there was something wrong for me to have been moved to a special school but it was not something that was well understood. My parents had to fight a lot of battles on my behalf.

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Hear Again

that's right. you can't suffer from a condition unless it has been officially diagnosed. if that were the case, then i suppose i had juvenile bipolar before it was even considered a legitimate diagnosis since i experienced lots of behavior problems and severe mood swings in school.

Hear Again

dreama,

if you weren't dx'ed with something else when you were born, that means you didn't have asperger's since it wasn't considered a valid diagnosis in 1970.

dreama

I'm sorry but I don't agree. I think that Bipolar was around when you were growing up. I think it was called manic depression at one point.

However for me I suffered mostly from Asperger syndrome as a child. It was a childhood problem. As an adult my asperger syndrome is a lot milder. I might have had problems being diagnosed at all but my dad kept a lot of old notes that teachers had written about my behavior as a child and I was diagnosed more or less on the basis of that.

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Hear Again

bipolar disorder (or at the time manic-depression) has been around since the 1950s, but i'm referring to juvenile bipolar. those are 2 completely different diagnoses.

Hear Again

dreama,

if you think it's nonsense that i wasn't dx'ed with juvenile bipolar, so be it, but that diagnosis wasn't around back in the 1970s and early 80s.

jillio

Exactly. You could not have been diagnosed with something for which there was no criteria nor diagnosis. That is the whole point.

dreama

When was Juvanile bipolar added then?

The question wether you suffered from it or not really wouldn't have anything to do with wether it was on a list. From my understanding you weren't diagnosed with Bipolar until you were an adult and were missdiagnosed with schzophrina type disorder prior to that.

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jillio

Exactly. And what dreama is failing to understand, many, many diagnoses have to be based on long standing behavioral manifestations. Never are they diagnosed in children. The child would receive a different diagnosis in childhood, and then, if symptoms persist into adulthood, they are diagnosed with the specific disorder.

An example would be, a child diagnosed with Conduct Disorder. If the symptoms of conduct disorder persist into adulthood, they can be considered to be long standing patterns, and the adult would then receive a diagnosis of a personality disorder.

Shadow

But she had the same symptoms as a child today. They just did not name it in her childhood. Symptoms were still there.

jillio

There is a type of Bi-polar Disorder that includes schizophrenic type symptomology as part of the criteria for diagnosis.

What you are trying to do is take a complicated and time consuming task...diagnosis...and break it down into 1 or two simplified steps. It simply cannot be done.

Hear Again

this is true. as you know jillio, juvenile bipolar disorder is a highly controversial diagnosis. only through clear observation is a child who displays symptoms of juvenile bipolar diagnosed as such.

dreama

That's my point. It didn't exist but I was displaying all the symptoms of asperger at the time. So I was born with asperger. I just wasn't diagnosed with it until I was an adult. Autism isn't generally something you would get as an adult. It's something that you were born with. That's why when they make the diagnoses they read and study behavior that was displayed as a child.

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