Jiro

as you know - the Michael Jackson thread was closed and we did go far off-topic. Here it is - resume the debate!

Deafness

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Bottesini

I think she is just a substance abuser. That frequently mimics bipolar disorder which is a convenient excuse.

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Gemma

I disagree - I firmly believe that she had postpartnum depression that went out of control - I have two daughters 13 months apart and that caused a major hormonal upheaval for me. I did literally go crazy so I can relate to her woes very well. Britney had her sons 12 months apart - I can clearly see how her hormones played a role in her behavior.

Of course she may have substance abuse but that often goes in hand to hand for untreated depression, etc.

That is my 2 cents..

Byrdie714

I think it's a combination of both.

Afterall--look at her family....

Jiro

I know most of us think of it as PMS-on-steroid. could you tell us (unmarried men) more about postpartum depression?

Bottesini

Actually, I think you are probably right. I had forgotten about postpartum depression. That combined with her lifestyle is a very plausible explanation.

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Hear Again

substance abuse does not represent a diagnosis of bipolar. bipolar is caused by genetic history, one's environment, stressors or antidepressants (which can cause mania in people who are bipolar).

in spears' case, she was evaluated by a psychiatrist who said that she was experiencing a manic episode. in order to be diagnosed as having a manic episode, a person must exhibit a number of symptoms listed under the DSM.

Jiro

no no - Bottesini's saying that behavior caused by substance abuse is as similar as behavior caused by bipolar disorder.

Hear Again

i understand. what i'm saying is that there are many substance abusers who are misdiagnosed as bipolar.

Jiro

there you go. maybe Britney Spears is misdiagnosed as bipolar as well...

Hear Again

that could be, but we'll never know, will we?

then again, substance abuse of drugs and alcohol are common among people diagnosed with bipolar -- especially when they are experiecing a manic episode. in that case, spears could be dually-diagnosed.

Byrdie714

What about Gemma's post? Because that would explain quite a bit as well.......especially if she had children within 12 months and boozin' and druggin'.

Hear Again

the symptoms of postpartum depression only last a few days or weeks and do not include substance abuse.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/post...ssion-symptoms

Jiro

yup.... yup.... but I think I can somewhat logically conclude that in her case - it was caused by drug/alcohol abuse and many news reported her checking into Eric Clapton's Crossroads Centre in Antigua (only a day though) and Promises - a residential rehab center in Malibu. Both rehabs are for drug/alcohol addictions.

Remember that news of her being carried out of her home to hospital and she had to be restrained? It was reported that she was extremely disruptive and belligerent at doctors and nurses. so she had to be given a massive dose of Haldol and Ativan. Next day - she was released against medical advice. so.... what if she was drunk and high on prescription medications?

Remember when Dr. Phil paid a visit to her hospital? here's what happened -

That gave me a chuckle. what a fool he is.

Jiro

"weeks"..... I suppose she treated her postpartum depression with drugs and booze thus exacerbating & prolonging her postpartum depression...

Hear Again

that could also be a sign of mania since one of the symptoms of mania is extreme irritability. when i experienced my first manic/psychotic episode 2 years ago, i was also very disruptive and beligerant. i had to be restrained by 4 people so they could administer an antipsychotic injection.

Hear Again

given spears' substance abuse, that's probably why her psychiatrist didn't diagnose her with postpartum depression. i'm guessing that there were other behaviors which pointed to a diagnosis of bipolar.

jillio

That would be the average for post partum depression. There are severe cases that last much longer, especially when a woman who is predisposed has 2 children very close together. There is also and extremewly severe form known as post partum psychosis.

Jiro

that doesn't sound pretty.... but do you agree that booze/drug abuse can exacerbate & prolong it?

Byrdie714

Well I would love to sit here and discuss this more but unfortunately my little weather radio just went off...

Time to get to work and to batten down the batches--70 mph winds are coming. Ugh!

If I don't talk to any of you before midnight tonite--Happy New Year!

Hear Again

jiro,

here's an interesting link i found regarding alcohol abuse and women with depression/postpartum depression:

Alcohol use and depression among pregnant and postpartum women

jillio

Most definately. And substance abuse behaviors can also mimic other disorders. Likewise, some people who have a substance abuse issue also have an undiagnosed mental disorder, and are abusing the substance to self-medicate. It is often difficult to tell which came first...the chicken or the egg. Protocol is to get the person sober and clean, and then deal with any symptoms that are not cleared up when the substance abuse has been stopped.

Babyblue

Oh my!

Hope all goes well. Just try not to run out Naked tonight! 70 mph wind can do some damage!

Have a Safe New Year.

Hear Again

jillio,

since spears was diagnosed with bipolar, do you think her psychiatrist addressed her manic symptoms first or did they try to sober her up before tackling the mania? i understand we'll never know for sure, but in that case, what does a psychiatrist normally do? wouldn't she need to be on some kind of mood stabilizer before they could start addressing her substance abuse?

Oceanbreeze

Correct. However, substance abuse is probably a problem for her, too. Given that manias often give way to reckless behavior, I would tend to think that substance abuse is a huge problem for people with bipolar disorder. The issue is to treat all co-morbid disorders. I would not doubt that she is in some kind of counseling for substance abuse as it tends to go hand in hand with bipolar disorder. Also, someone undiagnosed might self medicate with alcohol to either deal with the unrelenting depressive episodes or because they are manic and out of control behaviorally.

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"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

Hear Again

i agree with you. when i started therapy a year and a half ago, my therapist asked me if i abused drugs and/or alcohol and explained that people diagnosed with bipolar are subject to substance abuse due to manic or depressive episodes.

Oceanbreeze

Good question. My guess is they dealt with her substance abuse first. Then, set about getting an accurate diagnosis. I think it would be difficult to get an accurate diagnosis if the person was always on mind altering substances?

Jillio, what say you?

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"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

Jiro

oh lordy! good luck and be safe! don't forget to buy Jiro's Hurricane Sunglasses. I guarantee you that it will stay on up to 200 mph!

Jiro

I think that's why she was admitted to drug/alcohol rehab... needs to get clean up first before psychiatrist can do her/his job.

Hear Again

i'm wondering if they didn't put her on a fast acting mood stabilizer like Depakote and/or antipsychotic like Zyprexa and then immediately addressed her substance abuse.