Audiofuzzy

oops entered submit by mistake..

so I'll continue..

No, this is not "my knowledge".
This is what they TEACH at school, be it American, German, Chinese, French... seems you missed the classes, sadly.


Except I DID NOT say " we need a lot of Sodium".
I said we need Sodium for our body to be able function. If you don't have Sodium in your body, you die.
Your correct something I DID NOT SAY.


sigh.... because milk come from cow, no igredients.. hmm.
it's clear you don't understand, but I am lost as how to explain that to you. maybe someone else will be able to.

Liebling, trust me - you just don't understand.
Remeber our discussion about cat food? You wouldn't understand what HAM is. Finally I showed you two pictures and only then you got it.
Trust me - it's the same here, only sadly this time there are no pictures I would like to show you.

Fuzzy

Deafness

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darkdog

I just want to say that I love you all.

*Hugs Liebling
*Hugs Audiofuzzy
*Hugs Reba

Audiofuzzy

I'd like to add something that is off topic, so I apologize but it is important to me to say.

Ok, before I came to Canada 25 years ago from Europe (Poland and Germany) I couldn't get used to how the food tasted here.
While in Germany I loved yogurt, but Canadian yogurt tasted terrible to me. I was so dissapointed. Same with cottage cheese- I like the dry one but Canadian is so much different from European white curd cheeses.
(Now I love it!!!)

So, you can imagine how excited I was when I was going to Poland after spending 11 years in Canada. I thought about all those foods I was going to taste again!

Guess what - another dissapoinment. The cheese seemed to be different than I remembered, so did the German yogurt (total dissapointment) and some other stuff I used to like and missed.

What happened?
This happened - you get used to the taste you eat day in, day out for prolonged period of time.
Once you get used to the new food, you most likely will have to get used to the old one all over again. It's normal. It's how your taste buds work.

What's more, I got used to the Canadian food so much I actually missed some of Candian food while in Europe!

The same thing happened when we went last year to Germany, Holland, and Poland. I missed a lot of Canadian foods.
I am not saying I didn't enjoy anything while in Europe - I did, but not neccessarily what I thought I will enjoy.

So, Liebling, while I understand how the milk could have been not tasty to you, and I accept that in whole, because I know that from my own experience,
please bear in mind that it's merely a matter of being USED TO.
It is very possible that you, like me, if you were to move to USA for stay - after drinking a year or two of only American milk, you might be surpised to find you'll have to get used to the German milk all over again.

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy

That is beautiful, I love you too, Darkdog and ya all!

Even while I seem to be a mad dog frothing at the mouth - to me, it's only a discussion. I still can hug you Liebling and go to have beer with you after we are done
If you'll have me, that is

Fuzzy

darkdog

I typed this up because I was bored, and I guess I wanted to review some stuff from college. Come to think of it, the only information actually relevant to this discussion is in the last secion, so feel free to skip ahead to that. Just so you know, I didn’t pull this stuff out of my head; I had to consult some old textbooks for this information (specifically, Chemistry: Matter and Its Changes by Brady, Russell, and Holum). I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy of the following, so if you know I’m wrong on something, please point it out. I’d appreciate the opportunity to learn. So without further a due, here we go.


Quantum Mechanics

To begin, I’m going to give you a crash course in quantum physics. There are several facets to quantum physics that all fit together.

Planck’s Law- There are discrete (i.e. quantized) levels of energy. Hence, the term quantum mechanics.

The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle- You can never know with perfect certainty where a particle, such as an electron exists. You can only know the probability of that particle existing in a given area in a given time frame. Observing something changes the very nature of that thing. So for all you peeping toms out there trying to stare through an electron’s window at night, keep in mind it knows you’re watching.

The Photoelectric Effect- The energy from a photon (electromagnetic wave) is directly proportional to its wavelength.

The Schrödinger Equation- All matter is a wave. The Schrödinger equation looks very similar to the equation for an electromagnetic wave, an acoustic wave, or an ocean wave. The main difference is the thing that’s actually waving. In an ocean wave, it’s the water that’s waving. In an acoustic wave, it’s the air molecules that are waving. In an electromagnetic wave, it’s the electric and magnetic fields that are waving. So what’s waving in the Schrödinger equation? The probability of a particle’s existence. Huh? Yeah, pretty abstract and weird. For the sake of this discussion, don’t bother trying to understand it beyond that. I really don’t.

Wave-particle duality- Particles can act as waves. Likewise, electromagnetic waves have momentum, which is a concept associated only with matter in classical physics. So matter acts like waves and waves act like matter.

The Structure of Elements

All atoms consist of neutrons, electrons, and protons. The nucleus of an atom consists of the neutrons and protons. Outside of that, electrons are spinning around. The type of element is determined by how many protons are in the nucleus. There are the same number of neutrons and in general, the same number of electrons. The protons and neutrons are tightly held in the middle of the atom by very strong nuclear forces. The electrons are held in the atom by much weaker electromagnetic forces. Protons have a positive charge and electrons have a negative charge. Remember that opposite charges attract whereas same charges repel. Both protons and electrons hold a charge of 1.602E-19 Coulombs, which is referred to as the “elementary charge” and represented as a constant by e or sometimes q. When an atom has the same numbers of electrons and protons, their charges cancel each other and the net charge is 0.

The way electrons are structured around an atom is determined by the rules of quantum mechanics (glad we went over that now, aren't you?). When I refer to the energy of an electron, I refer to its potential energy. It’s much like gravity. There’s a force on electrons that attract them toward the nucleus. That force is much like the gravitational force attracting you and me to the earth. If you stood at the top of a cliff, you would have a much greater potential energy than if you were standing at the bottom of the cliff. It’s the same with electrons. The further away they are from the nucleus, the greater potential energy they have.

Each electrons in an atom occupies its own “state”. These states are divided into four categories. From biggest to smallest, they are shells, subshells, magnetic quantum number, and spin quantum number. This works much like your address. You have a country (shell), then state or province (subshell), then a city (magnetic quantum number), then a street address (spin quantum number). Just because a state exists doesn’t mean it has to be occupied by an electron. Not every address within your city is occupied. Some entire cities may be empty (ghost towns). In fact, entire states can be empty (i.e. Wyoming. Well, close enough)

Around the atoms, there are “shells”. The shells are referred to as n (called the principle quantum number) and are labeled from one up. The first shell (n=1) is the lowest energy shell. As n increases, so does the energy of the electrons. Think of shells as circles around the nucleus that contain electrons (like rings in a tree). The first shell is the closest circle and the higher shells are further away.

Within each shell, there are “subshells”. The subshells are referred to as l (lowercase L, called the secondary quantum number) and are labeled from zero up. Each subshell also has its own letter, which seems somewhat arbitrary. For l=0, the letter is s. For l=1, the letter is p. For l=2, the letter is d. For l=3, the letter is f. Beyond that, it goes in alphabetical order starting with g. I don’t know who came up with that lettering scheme, or what they were drinking when they did. The s,p,d, and f subshells are the ones you’ll hear about most.

Subshells are then divided by the magnetic quantum number, or m sub l (l is really a subscript, but I can't do that in the forum, so I have to say m sub l). m sub l is a integer that ranges from –l to +l.

The final division is the spin quantum number, or m sub s. This can be either +1/2 or -1/2. This is often referred to as up or down.

So, how many electrons can fit into each of these categories? Let’s start from the top with the spin quantum number. One electron can occupy the up spin and one electron can occupy the down spin.

Each magnetic quantum number can have two spin quantum numbers (up and down).

The number of magnetic quantum numbers inside a subshell is determined by which subshell it is. Since m sub s can go from –l to +l, that means there are 2l+1 magnetic quantum numbers inside a subshell. For example, if l=3, then m sub s can be -3,-2,-1,0,+1,+2,+3. In this case, 2l+1=7. You can count that there are seven numbers there.

The number of subshells in a shell is equal to n. That’s easy. So for the n=3 shell, there are three subshells.

There can be infinity shells, but in reality, you only see as many as about 7.

It’s important to know how many states are in each subshell. Using the information above, we find it to be the following:

l=0 (s subshell): 2 electrons
l=1 (p subshell): 6 electrons
l=2 (d subshell): 10 electrons
l=3 (f subshell): 14 electrons

Also, using the above information, we’re going to figure out which subshells are in which shells.

n=1: s
n=2: s,p
n=3: s,p,d
n=4: s,p,d,f

This is important for notating the electrons in an atom. Let’s represent the electrons in an arsenic (As) atom. Arsenic has 33 electrons (assuming none have been ripped off or added, which is possible, as we’ll get to later). Here’s how that representation would look.

As 1s(2) 2s(2) 2p(6) 3s(2) 3p(6) 4s(2) 3d(10) 4p(3)

The big numbers are the shell. The letters (s,p,d) are the subshells. The numbers in parentheses should be superscripted, but again, I can't do that here, so I put them in parentheses. They are the number of electrons in that subshell. The order goes from lowest energy level to highest energy level. The 4s subshell comes before the 3d subshell because the 4s subshell actually has a lower energy than the 3d subshell (the explaination as to why that is exceeds the scope of this guide). There is a way to represent the magnetic quantum numbers and spin quantum numbers, but for our needs, that won’t be necessary.

If you add the superscripted numbers, you get 33 electrons (2+2+6+2+6+2+10+3=33). All of the subshells are full except for the last one, 4p. The 4p subshell can hold 10 electrons, but it only holds three, because that's all that's left after the lower subshells take up the first 30. Valence electrons are the electrons in the outermost shell. In this case, the outermost shell is 4. Arsenic has 5 valence electrons. Since valence electrons are the ones responsible for most of the chemical behavior of that element, we can ignore the electrons in lower shells and represent just the valence electrons as such:

As 4s(2) 4p(3)

If you look at the periodic table, it’s actually divided by subshells. The two columns on the far left contain the elements whose highest subshell is s. The six columns on the far right contain the elements whose highest subshell is p. The ten columns in the middle represent the elements whose highest subshell is d. The two rows at the bottom with 14 columns represent the elements whose highest subshell is f (Technically, they should be between the s columns and d columns, but then the table would be too wide, so they put them at the bottom. It’s kind of like how they show Hawaii and Alaska in a corner of the US map so the map isn’t too big). 2,6,10,14- those numbers should sound familiar (they're the number of electrons in subshells). The only exception to the above is Helium. It’s highest subshell is 1s, but it’s on the far right. The reason because it’s an inert gas, and all the inert gases are placed over there. Row one contains 1s, row two contains 2s and 2p, row three contains 3s and 3p, row four contains 4s, 3d, and 4p, and so on.

Sodium and Salt

When sodium combines with chlorine, it forms sodium chloride, also known as salt. There are many different types of salt, but when we refer to salt in regards to food and nutrition, we mean sodium chloride.

Take a look at your periodic table and find sodium (symbol Na). It’s number 11, meaning it has 11 protons, 11 neutrons, and 11 electrons (normally). It’s in the third row, first column. Its highest subshell is 3s and that subshell has one electron. It has one valence electron which is represented as such:

Na 3s(1)

It can also be represent by a Lewis symbol, where each dot represents a valence electron:

Na .

Now find chlorine (symbol Cl). It’s number 17 on the periodic table. It has 17 protons, 17 neutrons, and 17 electrons (again, under normal conditions). It’s in the third row, second column from the right. Its highest subshell is 3p and that subshell has five electrons. It has seven valence electrons (2 from 3s and 5 from 3p). Here is its representation.

Cl 3s(2) 3p(5)

or

..
.Cl:
..

Chlorine’s valence shell (n=4) has room for one more electron. When sodium and chlorine combine, the one valence electron from sodium occupies that free space in chlorine and they both share two electrons. The Lewis diagram for Sodium Chloride looks like this.
..
Na:Cl:
..

However, if sodium chloride every break up (by being dissolved in water for instance), the chlorine atom keeps that extra electron (“That bastard! He came into my life, bonded with me, took my only valence electron, and left! I bet he’s bonding with that floozy, Potassium, right now!” Poor sodium ). So anyway, sodium will be left with one missing electron and chlorine will have one extra electron. Since sodium has 11 protons and now only 10 electrons, it’s net charge is no longer zero; it’s positive. The net charge is now +e. It’s referred to as a positive ion, or cation. Chlorine, on the other hand, now has a negative charge. It has 17 protons and 18 electrons, so the net charge is –e. It’s called a negative ion, or anion. Now that they have net charges, they can conduct electricity and respond to electric fields.

Sodium in Milk and the Body

The body’s nervous system uses ions in electrolytes to transmit messages across nerves and to muscles. Sodium is one of the primary ions it uses. Sodium isn’t bad for your health. In fact, you tend to die without it. On the other hand, in excess, it can be harmful. As a toxicologist would say, the quantity makes the poison. There’s an optimal level of sodium intake and there are negative ramifications to consuming more or less than that. The reason sodium has a bad reputation is because people tend to get too much of it, so it’s usually beneficial to limit intake and get closer to the optimal amount. It’s also possible to consume too much fiber, but people tend to not get enough of it. That’s why you see magazine articles about increasing your diet intake. If people did get too much fiber, you’d see magazine articles about how to decrease your fiber intake.

A cow’s nervous system needs sodium as much as a human’s. The cow does not need to be fed pure salt. Fortunately, salt appears in many foods, so just from eating grass or whatever, the cow will get enough sodium. As for the calf, its only food source is its mother’s milk, and the calf needs sodium as well. If cow’s milk lacked sodium, the calf would die or at least become very sick. Hence, sodium comes naturally in milk.

Thanks for reading! In next week’s excessively comprehensive guide, I will cover the topic of string theory in its entirety including the parts the physicists haven’t figured out yet! Until then, ciao!

Foxrac

That's life, it's US system.

If children are lacking to drink traditional milk then would be result in bone issue, such as rickets

Soy milk and rice milk isn't good so enough as traditional milk, that's according on nutrient.

__________________


In Moto We Trust

Reba

Reba

This was on the front label of the milk I bought tonight:

Publix All Natural Whole Grade A Milk
Vitamin D Added
FROM COWS NOT TREATED WITH rbST (ARTIFICIAL HORMONE)

Back label:

INGREDIENTS: GRADE A MILK, VITAMIN D3.

Nutrition Facts
Total Fat 8 g 12 % DV
Saturated Fat 5g 25%
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 35 mg 11%
Sodium 120 mg 5%
Vitamin A 6%
Vitamin C 4%
Calcium 30%
Iron 0%
Vitamin D 25%
Phosphorus 25%
Potassium 400mg 11%
Total Carb. 12g 4%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 11g
Protein 8g

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]If you don't care but why continue post then? I simple suggest you to don't post if you are not interesting.

Yes, it's same here in Germany. They are obligate to add (written) something on the label because the people has the right to know what they add ingredient and also list of natural vitamins, soduim, etc., too.

You kept on claim that it's natural because it add/written on the label under Nutrition Facts, not ingredients. Okay... I have a next question for you.

Now I am asking you a simple question:

Why they have more sugar and soduim in US Nutrition Facts than German Nutrition Facts? Where it come from?

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]I repeat my question:

Why they have more sugar and soduim in US Nutrition Facts than German Nutrition Facts?

I only copied what the milk, written. I look for "Ingredient" after finish typed list under Nutrition Facts - none because it's not necassary to print "Ingredient" and then add milk which it already print "MILK" on the front of bottle or packet... If something to add in milk then they have to print "ingredient" then write what they add to if it's not just milk.

I brought oalmeal to mix with dried fruits, yoghurt with me for lunch. I copied what my oatmeal written: (accord your wish for add the list yesterday... I am trying to search the link to show you... if not, then scan the label of milk and other foods when my machine is here). (my machine is still at repair).

The list under oatmeal Nutrition Facts pro 100 g.

Calories - 366
Protein - 12,5 g
carbs - 63,3 g
from sugar - 0,7 g
Fat - 7,0 g
Saturated fatty acids - 1,3 g
Dietary Fiber - 5,4 g
Soduim - 0,005g

Vitamins and Minerals

Vitamine B1 - 0,6 mg
Niacin - 4,2 mg
Iron - 4,6 mg
Zinc - 4,4 mg
Phosphor - 391 mg

I looking for Ingredient either they add or not... NONE... which mean is just oatmeal what the front of packet written.

The list under mixed dried fruits Nutrition Facts pro 100 g.


Calories - 275
Protein - 2,0 g
Carbs - 65,5 g
from sugar - 44,1 g
Fat - 0,5 g
Saturated fatty acids - 0,25 g
Dietary Fiber - 8,3 g
Soduim - 0,032 g

Ingredient:

Apricot
Pear
Plum
Apple

Caution:
Plum might have stones including.

__________________

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]I can read what you are saying. You said that you don't think I am a bad person. I said, yes you have.

Why I said this BECAUSE you label me as master manipulator, uncanny skill, liar, misinformation, misleading, etc. etc. in previous posts and then claim that I am not a bad person. It makes no sense to me.

I do not see anything that I twist or manipulate but copied an exact what you typed.

Do you still want to claim that I twist it or what?

I bashed US milk? Huh? Please use your common sense and open mind.


For your information, I CAN read the label before buy them.

It written SALT, not SODUIM... It do have soduim in some cottage cheeses, soft cheese etc. They write salt or soduim in any foods and drink...

Exactly that's what I am trying to explain that Soduim and salt is not the same thing in the previous posts... There're many different form of salts.

Yes I know Soduim as chemical name for table salt but the really is soduim and salt are not the same thing. I am not here to correct or belittle anyone like what you did here.
Here is link
https://www.toprol-xl.com/pdf/sodium_health.pdf

I do not see you accept my experience and taste but offense and claim that I bash US milk.

For your information... I do not complaint or didn't say that I don't like US milk because I do drink them. Of course I told my friends in real life... They have no problem with my view... They are open mind and share healthy issues what we watch etc. with me. I have no problem to try US foods and drink except oatmeal. I told my friend that the taste of oatmeal is too much sweet when it written on the front of plastic cup "NO SUGAR"... My friend explained me that artificial sweetener is add in oatmeal. I was like wow. We talked open mind about foods issues but you?

I have NO problem to know that you don't like German milk. I accept it with no offense. Did you hear me saying: You bashed German milk...? No, I accept because each person has different taste.

Huh? Use your common sense please. I has no reason to make up the stories or whatever. What you think is not my problem... If you continue to call me liar or whatever about oatmeal then is not my problem. My friends are only people, who knows and share with me in real life because I open them that oatmeal is too much sweet. They opened me that it's artificial sweetener. I told them that I don't like taste... US milk really doesn't bother me really becuase I can drink them.

Again, are you trying to belittle me or what?

I do not compare my 1,5 % fat milk with US fat-free milk but 2% reduced milk. I would compare if there're fat-free milk or 0,01% fat milk here in Germany with US fat-free milk but I didn't. German do have 0,01% fat milk in any shops but I do not buy them but 1,5%, 3,5% and 3,8% fat milk.

I ignored part of your posts because I don't want to waste my time to post when anyone who tried to belittle me and think they know everything better and negative my posts and prove me wrong all the time instead of polite and respectful debate. You think I don't know what ham is about...


*shake my head*

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Hwy99

Ohh dear, Reba, Audiofuzzy, and Liebling... It's only cow's milk...

Liebling:-)))

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Liebling:-)))

I know that we debated posts since my first and simple post. I know we should post in my thread http://www.alldeaf.com/general-healt...od-labels.html instead of here.

Pacman: I would like to apology you for make some posts in your thread. Forgive me please.

__________________

Liebling:-)))

I would love to you and to have beer with you. Have you any drink for me except beer?

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]
Yes I understand what you mean and agree with you.

When I was in England, I don't like yoghurt and cottage cheese. Curd cheese (Magerquark) is my lover... I only try curd cheese is here in Germany but never tried anything in other countries... I was told that curd cheese in USA and England are 3 times expensive than Germany. I would try if I am in USA again.

I live in Germany for over 22 years and the taste of some foods and drink remain same until German is stricter about health issues...... I like German yoghurt better than British... Anyway, I visited England time to time after no visit for 10 years... I feel strange after tried British foods. Some of British foods, I still buy... and lost interest some... My polish friends said the same thing what you said about different foods when they were in Poland (before communist time)... They said that the foods before communist time are the best quality than after communist time. They also said that the foods before communist time is better quality than Germany... Interesting.. They know the difference which I doesn't. I travel a lot and have no problem to try anything with different tastes from different countries... I enjoy myself to compare different tastes... Example: I don't like British and German lamb but I like lamb when I was in Cyprus. I tried anything when I was in USA and like them but I didn't try their junk foods.

I miss some of British foods when I am here in Germany but I do miss German foods when I was in England as well. I love some of US foods and miss it... I already bought some and brought home with me. I will miss if US foods are running out.



It doesn't mean that I don't like US milk but that's just the taste is different, that's all. I do drink them or use it for cereal with no problem.

Yes I know what you mean about use US milk if I move and live in America. Yes it could be true.



For now...

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Liebling:-)))

England is somewhere in Canada... That's' why I make sure either you are a Canadian or British.

Thank you for answer to my question. Its good to know that you find something to replace dairy products to strength your health.

__________________

Foxrac

Liebling, If milk in Germany don't have sodium or sugar then that means companies are remove the sodium and sugar before start shipping to grocery store but won't happen in USA except for remove the lactose.

Sodium and sugar are natural from cow, also there's none on ingredient.

Also cows in Germany can be different species.

__________________


In Moto We Trust

Liebling:-)))

I know that soduim is in some dairy products but remove the soduim and sugar from milk before deliver to stores?

I questioned my co-worker about your suggestion post here... She said that she can't image it.

Accord German law, they are obigate to add sodiuim or whatever on the Natrution Facts label but it doesn't write in milk label...

Perhap you could be right?

__________________

Reba

I stated that I care about facts. If someone posts something that isn't true I want to correct it.


It depends on the product. Whatever the product is, the Nutrition Facts must list what is there. If a product has lots of sugar and/or sodium, it will be listed. If it has zero sugar or sodium, that will also be listed. Each product is different. The Nutrition Facts include all the properties that are naturally occurring AND those that have been added.

Reba

Why do you need to repeat yourself?

Anyway, some products have more, some less. It depends on the product. The more processing a product goes thru, more likely it will have more sodium and sugar. For example, a can of spaghetti sauce has more processing and more additives than a vine-ripened tomato packaged by itself.


Do you know the difference between an "ingredient" and an "additive"?


The "ingredient" is the oatmeal. You didn't get an empty packet, right? "Ingredient" means what is inside the packet. Inside the packet is oatmeal; that is the ingredient.

So the sodium and other nutrients listed are naturally occurring in the apricot, pear, plum, and apple. Just like I said.

Foxrac

I said that can be happen in Germany for remove the sodium/sugar via filter or something.

Just like most fruits have sugar as natural but some juice companies that make sugar free juice then they remove the natural sugar from fruits before pour in every bottle then shipping to grocery store.

Just like said "Sugar Free Grape Juice" or something.

If any juice that's no sugar added means no artificial sugar are added, all are natural.

kool-Aid is full of artificial, just taste like fake fruit juice.

For me, I rather to buy juice that's full natural, most are from shelves in cooler like part of dairy area.

__________________


In Moto We Trust

Audiofuzzy

Okay, I see.
Why I don't think you are a bad person but you are manipulating and mislead.
Because in your other threads you show your can be also warm, loving, funny, open minded, tolerant person and excellent mother. I just read your replies from Duggars thread and I think you are 100% right. I usually agree with your ways of bringing child up.


But in this particular thread you are not admitting you secretly think that American food on the whole is not healthy, contains a lot of chemicals but German food - oh, we, we have such a strict laws and regulations, our milk is so pure, why American milk has so many things written od the labels, wow,
German has only this and that, blah blah blah.

There is such thing like reading between the lines.

That is why I think your intention was not merely "compare" information. You think German milk is better that American, healthier.
It's clear what you really think when you say things like " wow. American cheese has this and that, wow so many things - no thank you I preffer my healthy Leerdammer".


Well, if that was true about American cheese, or milk, or whatever being full of chemicals I would have to agree, but it isn't.
It is just a matter of differences in labelling.

Americans are also many Germans who immigrated from Germany, let's not forget that, do you think they would like to come here to live and eat unhealthy food? and let's not forget that many of German immigrants work in food industry, too.



yes you did. if you simply have said "wow, american milk taste like chalk to me" that would be that. Or even chemical. Just chemical taste.

But when you start adding things like "wow... I read the label.. so many things, wow.. oh, I see Sodium added.. there is no sodium in milk, I asked German farmer there is no Sodium? maybe they add salt to the feed then the cow's milk has Sodium?? or maybe the add Sodium to the milk?
gee, German has only this and that.. no thank you, I preffer REAL German milk"

the unfortunately you imply that American milk is not "real" and we add chemicals to it. That is not right, and not true.
Please mind I wasn't the only one that objected to that - Reba did too but Reba is so much nicer and calmer than me.

But, you see, since salt is Sodium Chloride, if the cottage cheese says Salt, it must have Sodium. That is my point. I said that because you said your cottage cheese dos not have Sodium, only salt.


So, if you say your label says "salt" but does not says "Sodium", I can only conclude either the amount of Sodium from salt in the cheese is so low that it fell under the number "0" and under German laws if it says 0 it does not have be written on the package, or maybe Cheese company is reqired to inform their product have salt but does not have to inform about Sodium, but the milk company must do BOTH,
or maybe there is a hundred different reasons I don't know.

American laws require even if the amount is 0, it must be written.

It is and it isn't.
As I've said before, every TABLE salt is Sodium- Sodium Chloride, and if you put salt in your food it will always have Sodium and Chlorine as a compound Sodium Chloride.

If you separate Sodium from Chloride then you have no more salt only two single separate elements - Sodium and Chlorine, because ChloriDE is only a name to indicate what kind of compound (two or more things) it is.

Like baking powder- Sodium Bicarbonate - another source of Sodium in our diet -
the name says it is compound of one Sodium element and two elements of carbon (hence bi-)
And you know what Carbon is, don't you
people sometimes used it to heat their furnace

Of course, Sodium can be found in nature as a single element, and for example in cow's milk is pure Sodium - just single element without Chlorine or carbon or anything.

And I guess that is why it says "Sodium and Salt is not the same".
But again- Sodium from salt is the same as Sodium from milk. It just is not as single (froms alt)

For example, you know that water is two gasses - Hydrogen and Oxygen. If you drink water you drink both. And suppose you got sick and you need to breath pure Oxygen - it's the same Oxygen as in water only now separate, single and back to gas form.
It's not the same as water anymore, it is gas now, but still in a way - the same - I hope you got it now.


Liebling I love you. You are mighty opponent, as always. I got bruised in this discussion too
I don't know about you but for me discussion, arguments are like boxing match - we try to beat up each other. I give it my all.
But once the match is over we join hands hugs each other and respect each other. And together go have beer, or milk or whatever

I do have big mouth, if I hurt you I am sorry.

Fuzzy

Audiofuzzy

You know, I wonder if you've ever heard old people always reminiscencing:
~ "when I was young, the food tasted different, better etc. They don't make it as good any more, hmph!" ?

I think this is the case with everyone. Your Polish friends probably liked better "communist" food because this was the food of their youth - you know what I mean?

Were some polish foods then better than German?? I dunno...

I can tell you what I remember- I came to Germany in 1982.
I didn't like German sausage that much, I do preffer Polish sausage over other to this day.
But I think the dairy (milk, cheese), the meat, veggies, fruit, fish - it was as good if not better as Polish.

Certainly dairy like yogurt, buttermilk - FAR more better. Polish Buttermilk back then tasted like a litre of sour milk with pound (half kilo) of white sugar, yuck.

Last year I tried new "democratic" Polish Buttermilk and yogurt,
and I find it much better. I still preffer Canadian and American brands we have here, but it's much better than the one under communist.


BTW in Poland many of German products are available. And that is good!


I am curious if an American and Canadian went to visit Poland how would they like our food???
Because when it comes to our humble mashed potatoes and ground meatballs and cottage cheese and potato perogies- I don't think anyone have it better

Fuzzy

Reba

Just a little trivia:

Leerdammer (a product of Holland) is part of the Bel Group of cheese products. Bel Group cheeses are also produced and sold in the USA under different names. Wisconsin is one of their producers. Bel also makes Laughing Cow for the USA. They make and sell cheeses all over the world.

Produits laitiers du groupe Bel : Fromage La vache qui rit, Babybel et Leerdammer

dreama

It doesn't mean it's right. They care more about pushing dairy industry propaganda then they do about the children's health.

No actually it's according to the dairy industry propaganda machine.

There are some very healthy vegan children about.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

Audiofuzzy

not neccessarily. I have heard about benefits of drinking milk from my pediatrician long ago before "dairy propaganda".

besides, even if the dairy industry creates "propaganda",
there are always independent scientific studies going on.

Regardless, what would be wrong with drinking milk in your opinion, Dreama?


Fuzzy

Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]The reason I repeat my 2 questions on the same day is because my question of few days old post #60 are being ignored.

It's not what I am asking about... I am asking you the question why soduim/salt and sugar on US nutrition label is more than German nutrition label.

Do you remember my suggestion about add soduim in addictive feeding to cows in my previous post?

Quote:

Animals carry their own hidden "additives" with hormones for growth and increased milk production,.....

Avoiding food additives and preservatives


Feed Additives
www.milkproduction.com Feed Additives



Oh yes, I do. I aviod food additives. I am very picker about food additives when I read on ingredient label and make sure there're no additives... I buy organic foods mostly... sometimes I bought foods with few food additives...

Yes I know... So? Now I repeat that we don't have "ingredient" print on back of food packet or whatever which mean is name of the front of packet, they print. It's not necassary to print twice in packet... one for "ingredient" milk and again print front of "Milk"... One is enough... We know it's just milk.

I did said too that we do have 2 labels in any foods packets... So? I simple posted to say that I was surprised when I saw soduim on label which got me wondering because we don't have like this here in Germany, that's all and also experience the taste as well. It look like that they add soduim... You keep on claim that it's natural... Sure but why more soduim and sugar on US than German label? and then suggest that soduim could be add something with feed additives to produce cow's milk.... and that's why taste is so different. All what I see here is keep on saying that it's natural etc. etc. I ASK you WHY more soduim and sugar in label.... ? So I search the links myself and found out the exact what I want to know.

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Oh I got it... It's other threads, you referred me as not bad person and manipulating, etc. is here... Thank you for explaination...

Thank you for your compliment about my posts in other threads. I do agree with your post about your thought over Duggar, too.

I am sorry that you don't like my post but it's fact. I also have to give my American co-workers, my Dad, brother and friends right about this. They did warned me about many junk foods, many chemicals, additives, etc. etc. etc. different taste, etc. etc. etc. I experienced and withnessed myself... I tried to pick right foods when I was in USA but it's not easy... because of sooo many junk foods in Fast Food Resturants than Health Fast Resturant... It's not easy to find salad sandwiches what I really want. If I want to pick anything then go Resturant, not Fast foood Resturant... like "Taken Away" Food. That's one I found turkey salad sandwich is at Wendy and like it but they add mayo on salad sandwiches. If I want "taken away" salad then get at McDonald. We were in Cedar Point... None of Salad sandwiches but junks sell... German ADer said the same thing, too because she went to USA few times. She told me that she want to have salad but they mix mayo on salad which she don't like. I told her that I did asked the waiter to not mix mayo on salad... The waiter agreed to add mayo on small bowl then I can do it myself. That's one fresh and salad buffet in resturant, we went is wonderful and fresh... because I can pick which salad dressing, I like... I ate like crazy... I can test peice of different US foods after finish with salads.... If I go USA again then it must be same salad buffet resturant... I do beleive you about strict laws and regulations in USA but that's just I taste different...

What I thought is fact. If you offend by my post then accept my apology. I do not intend to say this but I say open what I think ... I don't beleive being "flattery"... It's me.

I didn't say anything except milk and oatmeal. I can eat anything what I get when I was in different countries but at my home is a different story... I am very picker about read label first before buy the foods and drink.

It doesn't bother me when the people open to me that what they prefer and what they think... because I like their honestly. I accept my knowledge that each person has different taste and thought.

It's good that German stores are everywhere in USA then Germans are able to buy the foods there which is great... I am not saying that they depend on German stores all the time... I do beleive that they buy foods & drink in US stores as well.

I talked about soduim in milk, no more than anything, don't I? Yes, I said that there're no soduim in milk here in Germany... Is "wow" an insult and offensive word to you? Should I write "I am surprised" instead of "wow"? Yes I said that I see that soduim is add on the label. I asked question accord my post #60 what kind of animal feeding, the farmer gave cows... Nobody answers... I suggest that it could be that soduim add in feeding to cow. I said this because of more soduim and sugar in US label than German label. Nobody answers... I repeated 2 questions but that's not what I am asking so I searched the links myself. That's exactly what I want to know.


Unfortunlately yes, I do not denied that I said that American milk is not "real" milk because it taste like not real milk but something add in milk like chemical. I use to say "natural" foods, etc. etc. until I learn from my American co-workers to use word "real"... It's their favorite word... "I like real foods, beers, etc. etc. "... Is those word "Real" foods etc is an insult and offensive to you? Should I write "natural" foods, etc. in next time? If it offend you then accept my apology.... I am too open what I think and what I see... It's me...

I saw the point what you are trying to explain... I am sorry to confuse you with my previous posts about salt... I can see that I didn't make clear to you in my previous posts about which salt. I should add iodized salt, sea salt, herb salt, table salt, dietary salt, etc instead of just "salt". That one I choose cottage cheese including dietary salt instead of soduim.


Some cheeses, cream cheeses etc do have different salts and soduim... Some no salt or soduim on Nutriton Fact but igrendients or have on Nutriton Fact and no salt in igrendient... or both... Depend on different cheeses... Example: I do not buy if I see soduim on Natrituion Fact and then type of salts under igredient... both soduim and salts under Natriution Fact and igrendient is too much for me... I prefer to buy one soduim or type of salt where I read is under Nutrition Facts or Igredient. Yes that's right German don't have to add something if there're no soduim or whatever .... It's waste to print "0" ... they are obligate to print how many gram, mg or % ... on the label. I re-read the US cereal, I brought here with me... They printed soduim and sugar in Natruition Fact and salt and sugar under ingredient.

Everyone knows that much sweetner in foods and drink there in America than in Europe.




Yes I see that.


I already explained in other thread that I don't use salt on the meal table if we have type of salts or soduim in foods... If there're no salt in any foods, I taste then use iodized salt (I mixed myself with dried herbs). I limit with soduim/salt.

Yeah, I know it's you... ... I like good debate with respectful agree to disagree but I admit that it could end heat debate sometimes. I could be bitch sometimes... I do love you and Reba, too... .... Give me milk what you prefer your own taste...


Don't worry about this.. I know you doesn't mean it when you are angry... I am also sorry if I made a harsh posts toward you sometimes, too when I act bitch ..

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Liebling:-)))

[QUOTE]Yeah, I heard like this often... It's their experience and feeling...

Yeah, accord my Polish friends (and also ex-East Germans, too) - they produced few simple sausages, unprocessed meats, dairy, etc. with no additives... They didn't pay their attention when they taste until they escaped from communist to West Germany and shock when they saw many different dairies, meats, etc. They tasted and said that 3,5 % or 3,8 % fat milk is too thin... not thick like their communist time. I was like huh? because 3,5% and 3,&% fat milk are too thick to me. Years later after that, they visited their countries and shock that the taste is so different than they used to taste at long time ago... Intereseting.

but I noticed that some polish foods around here in Germany is salted and too much fat... (read their label)... I didn't try it... My hubby loves Polish sausage.

Which type of German sausages you don't like? There're many different type of German sausages... Some of sausages are salty... I like only few German sausages.

I prefer British fishes to German fishes because of fresh taste (near sea)... If I want fresh fish then go to Island of Sylt or Hamburg... (North Germany), not Bavaria... I only buy fishes from freeze shops, not fresh. I like anything what I buy is pure natural... (organic). My Dad's and brother's view on German fruits, eggs, breads, etc. are better than Britian... Maybe I bought organic foods that they experienced? I do buy foods with additives sometimes... I like German dairy products, any fresh foods, etc more than Britian.

Your post make me hungry... I love yoghurt and buttermilk... I use natural yoghurt or buttermilk to mix with fresh or freeze fruits, teaspoon of honey and oatmeal... mmmhhh... Yes, yoghurt and buttermilk are bit sour - not bad as in England but you will not notice when you add fruits, honey and oatmeal in yoghurt or buttermilk.

Interesting... each person has different taste.


Yes I noticed that German products are everywhere in Europe like we get different product from other Europe countries. I am surprised that German products are in Poland.

I see why not... It's good for them to visit our country and try our foods and tell us what they think of and what they taste... It make me curious, too...

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