rick48

Then your input into raising a child with implants is worthless. Thank you for finally admitting what we knew about you all along!!!!!!!!!!

Deafness

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AlleyCat

Don't worry, DC, as OB fails ALL of the criteria so I would say the lovely Rick's logic is moot.

Audiofuzzy

Merely comparing having Ci and not having CI is not enough.

In between there is a whole lot of circumstances that may contribute to being "****ed up"
about which you might not be aware of.

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Audiofuzzy

No, but that's precisely why I am not here making statements like "too many kids are or are not ****ed up ..... etc.

have YOU?

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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rick48

There seems to be a focus on how difficult it is for some of the posters here to acquire speech. What myself and other ci parents have been saying not only now but for years is that the ci has made a big impact for some to acquire speech. I can tell you, that my daughter's experiences are in no way similar to what some have described. Within months of being implanted she went from a few one syllable words to speaking in sentences. By the time she reached school she had age appropriate langauge.

What I have seen first hand over the years is she is not unique, that she is just one of thousands who have had thier road to speech made significantly easier due to the cochlear implant. It continues to amaze me how well, especially the bi lat kids, are doing.

No, speech is not everything and there are many more factors to consider in raising a child but why not just accept the fact that there are indeed children and now adults who have had good ci experiences, do not have estranged relationships with thier families and are doing fine.

I am truly sorry if your have estranged relationships with your families. I would not wish that upon anyone and if you have found a community that makes you feel comfortable fine but I am not going to accept the blame for everything that went wrong in your lives nor appologize for being a parent who has always been actively involved in thier kid's life and is proud of the fact that she is now an adult and continuing to do well nor am I going to dismiss the substantial positive impact the cochlear implant has had in her life.

deafskeptic

I haven't denied myself implants and I still agree with many of the Deaf posters.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

Audiofuzzy

My point precisely.
To be able to make a bold statement like this,

one must have undeniable scientific data to prove it.

Unbiased, controlled studies done on such subjects.

Is there one here? So far I can't see any.

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Audiofuzzy

Sure, you would.

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
.

deafskeptic

What's so bad about that?

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

rick48

Lovely, fabulous, please stop you are making me blush!

The difference between OB abd Dc is that OB is not telling anyone how they should raise their child as DC constantly is. OB is willing to recognize that each deaf child is different where as DC thinks her experiences and her relationships with her parents are universal to all deaf children.

Audiofuzzy

To me, it brings your objectivity into question.

Fuzzy

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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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DeafCaroline

You know, that excessive rage of yours is rather tiresome. Take it down a notch and calm down.

rick48

So what.

DeafCaroline

It's clear hearing parents have a listening problem because their ego is too loud for them to hear over.

Why does it matter to you so much to come here and spew rage at us over and over again? If you're happy with your decisions to implant your child and she's doing great, then why the hell do you care what we think or say sooo much that you go into these huge fits of rage? Your daughter is a resounding success, according to you. That alone should say enough but no, you come back here again and again to take it out on us like we're your punching bags, using the whole deaf community hates CIs as a justification for doing so.

You've got some serious issues.

Move on already.

Beowulf

I agree with both sides in places, but I laugh at hearing people who pretend to know deafness.

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deafskeptic

She just may have a talent for languages regardless of the CI. According to my first grade teacher, my sentences was nearly perfect which means I was age appropriate .

Speaking of of the focus on speech, yes some can learn to speak. However for the majority of severely and profoundly deaf, being to understand what others say to them will always be a problem and it will often require ideal conditions in many situation for many.
Yes but what about her ability to understand others ? To me, that's the important part.
I don't think the majority of the deaf on this forum are estranged from their families though they may not see them often.

The ones one that I know who are estranged from their families usually had very good reasons for being estranged and though they all had oral upbringing, oralism usually is a factor if not the main reason for the estrangement . Let's just say those families were very dysfunctional.
[quote]
The majority of the Deaf here are blaming their Oral upbringing and not their parents. Many wish their parents had learned ASL.

In order to be close to parents and family members, you need communication and all people have a need to understand and be understood by others.

The reason why so many deaf have a beef with Oralism is that it ignores the deaf's communication needs which is to be understood by others and to be able to understand what others are saying to them.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

DeafCaroline

and p.s. i was very close to my parents and I absolutely do not blame them for how I was raised. Obviously I do not agree with their choice to raise me as oral and mainstreamed but they were doing what the medical community told them was in my best interest. In their misguided way they thought they did the right thing. Consequently this resulted in my being isolated in various ways because I could not hear despite that I could speak.

Asides from that altogether, they were very loving parents.

Not sure how you came to the conclusions I had some dysfunctional relationship with my parents.

Audiofuzzy

I don't think it's about that.

I think it's about how some posters belittle and question his child/ren successes as implanted children,
while themselves not only having little idea about CI or having strongly biased opinion about CI,
then accusing Rick of being bad parent because he dared to implant his child/ren and raise them also as hearing,

conveniently forgetting that she/they also participate in Deaf world as much as they see fit.


Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Audiofuzzy

I was recently watching part of PTSD in American soldiers, mainly on WWII veterans. It was very sad, depressing and horrific.
I learned, for example, that Gen Patton while visiting battle field publicly
face slapped a soldier suffering from nervous exhaustion and yelled
"I won't have any wimps! send this yellow belly right back to the front!' - not in exacts words, but very close.

Today, these soldiers, today septua- and octogenarians, were speaking out about their unimaginable horrors,
and how there was not only nobody who understood what they were going thru once they were back home,
but also how they couldn't speak to each other about that, too,
for somehow you couldn't appear weak, damaged, unadjusted or other.
You were left alone, without help, damaged, suffering, and ended up alcoholic, divorced, violent, or committed suicide.


These things started being understood around Vietnam War.
Now it is understood even more, particularly after Iraq.

Now, isn't it like that with everything else? It takes time to see things better after a while? Experience takes time as well?


The same apply to hearing parents of deaf children, medical establishment, CI professionals, etc.

Each one only wants to do their best job.

All Gen Patton wanted do was his best job, too.
The CI specialists want to do their best job.
Otolaryngologists want to do theirs.
etc, etc.

The question is, is the Deaf doing theirs?

Is denying that CI could be a good thing for the deaf indeed a right thing?

What if CI is not the issue at all?

Fuzzy

__________________
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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deafdyke

[quote=deafskeptic;2029615]She just may have a talent for languages regardless of the CI. According to my first grade teacher, my sentences was nearly perfect which means I was age appropriate .

Speaking of of the focus on speech, yes some can learn to speak. However for the majority of severely and profoundly deaf, being to understand what others say to them will always be a problem and it will often require ideal conditions in many situation for many.


Yes but what about her ability to understand others ? To me, that's the important part.


I don't think the majority of the deaf on this forum are estranged from their families though they may not see them often.

The ones one that I know who are estranged from their families usually had very good reasons for being estranged and though they all had oral upbringing, oralism usually is a factor if not the main reason for the estrangement . Let's just say those families were very dysfunctional.
Yes exactly! Even back when there were hearing aids, there were kids who sucessfully developed oral skills. And yes, oral skills are awesome but they tend to require soundbooth listening conditions. You'll talk to adult oralists, and they'll say usuallly that while they're glad to have oral skills, they don't feel like they fit in totally with the hearing world! They can get along very well, and interact orally yes....but they still have to deal with the inequalities of the oral only approach. Oralism is a biggie as well I mean it does not capitalize on visual processing strengh at ALL! It would be like educating a blind kid by exlcuisvely working with their residual vision and forgetting about Braille, or educating a kid who was smart in English but LD in math, by concentrating on the math defiency!

KristinaB

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Taking life one day at a time.

deafbajagal

A side note, after reading this entire thread...

Isn't the OP asking DEAF parents if they would, or would not, implant their children. And to have hearing people come on this thread specifically to invalidate the DEAF parents' answers, it is wrong.

bbaseballboy123

i really hate when people say "god made me this way" cause honestly, its just a scientific defect.
Not to put down religion, but, do you have to really believe that god wanted you to be deaf (or blind, or mental, or small, or big, or black, or white, or yellow, or brown?) We have ears that are designed to catch vibrations for a reason, we have bunch of features in our eyes to see, we have a brain for knowledge. Why would god want to take something thats so powerful/useful in terms of sense away from us?

Thats why I am very pro-CI. Technology (science) allows us to take these defects, and try to make it as close as possible to the natural way of hearing, seeing, ect.
What makes us who we are is our adaptation to these defects and making best of it. People that dont want CI/hearing aids, cool, you are most likely to be very knitted into the deaf culture with ASL, you made yourself, not god.
Me, I acknowledged that i am deaf yet i use CI, I made myself the person who I am, deaf with hearing as natural as possible can.

I should mention that I am not into religion very much, and always look at things from scientific reasoning.


edit: i dont wanna fight, just expressing how I see CI's. The ****ed up teenagers comment was very uncalled for, as I dont see myself ****ed up or many CI users I have met in my life... a-hole.

__________________
Deaf and Smart. Business Major at RIT. Have Bi-lateral cochlear implants. But know ASL as well.

Working on a new project that will benefit deaf peeps

KristinaB

Sorry you feel this way.

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Taking life one day at a time.

Bottesini

I don't see you or any kids that I have known with CI in that way either.

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deafbajagal

Do you know what diamonds are? Pieces of charcoal that can handle stress well. Being deaf has made me into being a diamond. I am proud to be deaf, and I would not change it for anything.

flip

Yes it's enough for me.

I am aware of whats in between.

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BILATERAL SILENCE ACTIVATED 12/11-2010

flip

Know from talking with people under treatment from psychiatry, research done by real scientist I have met face to face, etc etc. I'm too lazy to explain to you how CI ends up getting a problem, but it does. I know, many more than me know, and that suffice for me.

Not sure if I believe you not an extremist, but so, who cares? Except people with extreme viewpoints maybe?

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BILATERAL SILENCE ACTIVATED 12/11-2010

Cloggy

There are always risk. Part of life. Sometimes one takes risks to prevent other risk..
Risks associated with deafness are OK?

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shel90

Many of us are extremist against audism. Maybe that is what you are misunderstanding here. Thinking we are against CIs (I know some posters here are against them but that is their right to feel that way) when it is audism that we are against.

Ever see it that way, maybe?

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--- Anonymous