Deaf Parents of Deaf kids - Page 2

**shel90** · 02-08-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I was born with a very very very very very severe profound deafness and so was my brother. We probably are more deaf than 90% of the Deaf population and we are both doing fine without CIs. It is all about learning assertiveness, self-advocating, and most of all loving ourselves.

i was taught to hate myself by the audists growing up which made me disabled. Discovering the Deaf community, I was able to learn how to advocate for myself in the hearing world so I feel less disabled.

How is that for amphlication? That is what these ignorant hearing parents conbtinue to not to understand no matter how much we educate them

And I wanted to add..I can speak like a hearing person 100% of the time on a good day. All without these f***cking CIs.

I gotta give myself a HUGE pat on my back considering that i was born with a 110 dB loss in both ears and possess the skills to FOOl stupid hearing people into thinking that I am just as hearing as they are. Imagine the HORROR they must have felt to encounter someone with such a severe deafness as I have to possess such clear clear speech skills as they have even better in some cases.

I went through Hell for my speech skills and I will rub it into people's faces that I did it all without needing a f*** CI!

**deafskeptic** · 02-08-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I was born with a very very very very very severe profound deafness and so was my brother. We probably are more deaf than 90% of the Deaf population and we are both doing fine without CIs. It is all about learning assertiveness, self-advocating, and most of all loving ourselves.

i was taught to hate myself by the audists growing up which made me disabled. Discovering the Deaf community, I was able to learn how to advocate for myself in the hearing world so I feel less disabled.

How is that for amphlication? That is what these ignorant hearing parents conbtinue to not to understand no matter how much we educate them

And that is key to a healthy life as a Deaf person.

deafdyke · 02-08-2012, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And I wanted to add..I can speak like a hearing person 100% of the time on a good day. All without these f***cking CIs.

I gotta give myself a HUGE pat on my back considering that i was born with a 110 dB loss in both ears and possess the skills to FOOl stupid hearing people into thinking that I am just as hearing as they are. Imagine the HORROR they must have felt to encounter someone with such a severe deafness as I have to possess such clear clear speech skills as they have even better in some cases.

I went through Hell for my speech skills and I will rub it into people's faces that I did it all without needing a f*** CI!

Exactly! I do have to agree with you guys that the docs and experts push CI like it's A CURE and that any one who uses it will automaticly get clear speech. Most people who have CI, still sound very Clarkie/obviously oral deaf.

deafdyke · 02-09-2012, 12:09 AM

and I AM NOT oralist at ALL! Simply b/c I suggested that in SOME cases, implantation might be a good idea does not make me oralist at ALL!

Cloggy · 02-09-2012, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

Meaning what? Gets the oral skills you so want all deaf children to have? Otherwise, what's the point? Look at PFH, Shel, me, MANY others who don't need oral skills/speech to get where we are. What does the CI do for us as a child? (And I have a profound loss, remember. Am I that bad off?)

To raise a deaf giving it the opportunity to use ASL with the parents and hear listen and speak with hearing people.. Best of two worlds... Why would you want to deny that to a child?

Cloggy · 02-09-2012, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

I understand the full toolbox. But CIs in babies just because you want them to have oral skills? You have become very oralist, very much like the CI parents on this board. I have a very profound loss. I don't need to explain myself to you. An example from Oregon, and from Wisconsin doesn't justify all. Even another poster and I had to tell you that things are different today. She and I went to the same school -- one that YOU did not attend, and you used a "friend" as a reference for your statements, and we both could tell you it is NOT what you thought it was. I'm tired of this rhetoric.

Sorry, but I just had to smile at this..

An example of someone loosing feeling to his arm is a justified example (even though this remarkable happening is nowhere to be found) and some friends of friends see children with CI twitching is a valid example, but "An example from Oregon, and from Wisconsin" doesn't justify...

You liking an example doesn't justify it or make it valid, nor does you disliking an example make it invalid..

Cloggy · 02-09-2012, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

And I wanted to add..I can speak like a hearing person 100% of the time on a good day. All without these f***cking CIs.

I gotta give myself a HUGE pat on my back considering that i was born with a 110 dB loss in both ears and possess the skills to FOOl stupid hearing people into thinking that I am just as hearing as they are. Imagine the HORROR they must have felt to encounter someone with such a severe deafness as I have to possess such clear clear speech skills as they have even better in some cases.

I went through Hell for my speech skills and I will rub it into people's faces that I did it all without needing a f*** CI!

A pad on the back from me...
And we've met people that are deaf and have learned to speak perfectly. We were surprised to hear she was totally deaf. She explained she had to work hard to achieve this.. Like you say.. "very, very, very, very hard and she did it without a f****** CI"...

But... "I went through Hell for my speech skills" ... is that what you want for your children...???
Not saying that they have to have CI, but why is it so important to have perfect speech?

AlleyCat · 02-09-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Sorry, but I just had to smile at this..

An example of someone loosing feeling to his arm is a justified example (even though this remarkable happening is nowhere to be found) and some friends of friends see children with CI twitching is a valid example, but "An example from Oregon, and from Wisconsin" doesn't justify...

You liking an example doesn't justify it or make it valid, nor does you disliking an example make it invalid..

Yeah, I saw your veiled post to Banjo basically calling him a liar about the arm.

When you quoted my post, you conveniently left out the "ALL" that was at the end of that sentence. I was saying that 2 examples don't justify ALL. That changes that context completely.

**ash345** · 02-09-2012, 10:08 AM

No I would not get my children CI's if they happen to be deaf. I want my kids to grow up proud of who they are, deaf or hearing. My children will be exposed to sign from the day they are born, will grow up in Deaf Culture, will understand they are perfect just the way they are. If my children get older and decide they want to go with a CI, then sure... when they can understand what a CI is what it does, and what the potential risks are, then they can make that decision on their own... but I will not allow my children to get a CI before they are of legal adult age (18)... only then can they make the decision on their own...

**ash345** · 02-09-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

A pad on the back from me...
And we've met people that are deaf and have learned to speak perfectly. We were surprised to hear she was totally deaf. She explained she had to work hard to achieve this.. Like you say.. "very, very, very, very hard and she did it without a f****** CI"...

But... "I went through Hell for my speech skills" ... is that what you want for your children...???
Not saying that they have to have CI, but why is it so important to have perfect speech?

its not important to have perfect speech... though too many parents think it is... I went through hell for my speech skills too (which aren't perfect)... does that mean that I chose it? NO... my parents chose it for me... they chose the oral road for me... and now I am choosing my own, and am MUCH less frustrated! Would I send my kids to speech therapy... maybe... would I force it upon them... NO way... if my kids were in ST, and they told me they wanted to stop... they could stop at any point... speech is not important, having language and having communication is important.

deafbajagal · 02-09-2012, 11:22 AM

Not important to have perfect speech? Then why bother with it? Imperfect speech makes the person look and sound dumb, at least in our society. What is "good enough?" When a child reaches his/her plateau? But a deaf person can have perfect expressive skills through manual communication...why deny him/ her that opprtunity. Speech training ruined my self esteem. No matter how hard I worked, I was never good enough. I avoid family functions because I do not want to be in the position to have to speak. The process of learning to speak and using speech was, and still is, very unnatural and painful.

deafbajagal · 02-09-2012, 11:24 AM

My ability to have speech is not a mark of accomplishment. It's a scar.

**ash345** · 02-09-2012, 11:38 AM

that once again, is something that will be left up to my children... they want to learn to speak, they can... but it isn't a contract that they are setting themselves up for...

DeafCaroline · 02-09-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

A pad on the back from me...
And we've met people that are deaf and have learned to speak perfectly. We were surprised to hear she was totally deaf. She explained she had to work hard to achieve this.. Like you say.. "very, very, very, very hard and she did it without a f****** CI"...

But... "I went through Hell for my speech skills" ... is that what you want for your children...???
Not saying that they have to have CI, but why is it so important to have perfect speech?

Have you grown up being made fun of for your speech? Have you had children bully you and tell you you sound "retarded"? Have you had the experience of both children and adults act discomfited at your less than perfect speech? have you been turned down for jobs because you don't sound "normal"? Have you experienced witnessing a child tug at her mother's coat, point at you and say loudly "why does she talk funny? what's wrong with her?" Have you had even adults shun you in social settings because your less than perfect speech makes them uncomfortable and gives them the impression you're not very bright?

In a way, less than perfect speech is far more damning than no speech skills at all.

I'm surprised you had to ask this question, I thought you had done your research carefully.

**Lissa** · 02-09-2012, 02:59 PM

No, I would wait till they're old enough to decide. I was lucky enough to be old enough to be part of the decision making.

dogmom · 02-09-2012, 04:50 PM

DC, I've experienced most of that....

Speedy Hawk · 02-09-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

I put down maybe for this reason. No way in hell am I going the oral route for my deaf kids.

I agree if I have deaf kids. No way I force them into oral route. I will teach them BSL, and will encourage them learn to speak in fun way, if they can't, don't want to I leave them be.

They MUST have good language (BSL) and MUST have good education (through BSL) and be HAPPY!

Too many hearing parents focus on speech and forget about language and education and happy childhood. When I was growing up SO much focus was on my speech and my education and language was left behind. I got through primary and high school without getting any education, everything I learn was through TV, computer educational games at home and basic english/maths from Dad at weekend only.

deafdyke · 02-10-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Have you grown up being made fun of for your speech? Have you had children bully you and tell you you sound "retarded"? Have you had the experience of both children and adults act discomfited at your less than perfect speech? have you been turned down for jobs because you don't sound "normal"? Have you experienced witnessing a child tug at her mother's coat, point at you and say loudly "why does she talk funny? what's wrong with her?" Have you had even adults shun you in social settings because your less than perfect speech makes them uncomfortable and gives them the impression you're not very bright?

In a way, less than perfect speech is far more damning than no speech skills at all.

I'm surprised you had to ask this question, I thought you had done your research carefully.

THIS. Totally....This. This ****ing literally just brought me to TEARS. Deaf Caroline can I post this on Facebook? Speech skills are a good thing to have yes.....BUT they don't and cannot 100% equalize a dhh kid at ALL! It's exactly like the way while good spoken English abilty serves a Hispanic person well, they still have to deal with discrimination and racism. Good spoken English abilty doesn't completely erase inequality. That is b/c HOH kids are STILL not and can never be hearing the way a hearing person can!!!!

deafdyke · 02-10-2012, 12:26 AM

and Deaf Caroline, this needs to be required reading for EVERY single parent of a dhh kid out there. How I wish those goddamn Auditory-Verbal, and pro oral only experts could read your post!

Cloggy · 02-10-2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Have you grown up being made fun of for your speech? Have you had children bully you and tell you you sound "retarded"? Have you had the experience of both children and adults act discomfited at your less than perfect speech? have you been turned down for jobs because you don't sound "normal"? Have you experienced witnessing a child tug at her mother's coat, point at you and say loudly "why does she talk funny? what's wrong with her?" Have you had even adults shun you in social settings because your less than perfect speech makes them uncomfortable and gives them the impression you're not very bright?

In a way, less than perfect speech is far more damning than no speech skills at all.

I'm surprised you had to ask this question, I thought you had done your research carefully.

... And you missed the point... (not just you)
Of course having good speech skills are important... And it takes hard work to achieve that level.. As Shel explained...
So... If good perch is very important, and you don't want your children to suffer to obtain good speech, like many deaf people have, wouldn't CI be a good option?
With early implantation, speech would develop naturally.
When you wait 15 years for the child to make their own decision, they would first have to work hard to start speech, and then work hard to learn to listen...

So, if good speech is important, I would expect a large support for CI..

-------------
Just to add, (and preventing Lotte saying ILY too many times..)...
Showed our discussion to another parent whose child has difficulties hearing.. and that parent was moved by DeafCorolines post, just like DeafDyke
The parent said:

Quote:

.... we are doing our best to avoid having our children experience "going through hell" to understand and use spoken language. That is one of the reasons we chose cochlear implants.
It must have been extremely difficult trying to produce words and sounds you could not hear, and even worse trying to follow conversations based on tiny lip movements.
That is why we chose to give our child a cochlear implant and give them access to all the sounds of spoken language, that way they wouldn't ever have to go through the "hell" you experienced!

Epilog:
Many of the stories I read on AllDeaf are about hard time in childhood due to deafness. Caused by bad parenting or other reasons. Many stories I read are about the happiness and warmth felt when Deaf Culture is discovered, signlanguage is learned. Finally being able to communicate freely. Be understood completely within that community. In addition the feeling of "why couldn't that have been when I grew up." Perhaps for some a feeling of being betrayed because it was withheld from them...

I can speak for my daughter that she is growing up happy. She learned to hear, listen and speak. And I hope that in the future she will discover Deaf community. (We'll point her in that direction eventually.) And I hope she will learn sign language if she so desires. And that she then will be able to freely communicate with the deaf people that want to communicate with her.

I'm very sure that the one thing she will not feel when/if she embraces Deaf culture is the feeling of being betrayed...

Audiofuzzy · 02-10-2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

Simple answer: no.

Seen too many ****ed up teenagers with CI.

There is too many ****ed up teenagers without CI, too.

How do you know specifically those are ****ed up due to CI?

Fuzzy

DeafCaroline · 02-10-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

... And you missed the point... (not just you)
Of course having good speech skills are important... And it takes hard work to achieve that level.. As Shel explained...
So... If good perch is very important, and you don't want your children to suffer to obtain good speech, like many deaf people have, wouldn't CI be a good option?
With early implantation, speech would develop naturally.
When you wait 15 years for the child to make their own decision, they would first have to work hard to start speech, and then work hard to learn to listen...

So, if good speech is important, I would expect a large support for CI..

-------------
Just to add, (and preventing Lotte saying ILY too many times..)...
Showed our discussion to another parent whose child has difficulties hearing.. and that parent was moved by DeafCorolines post, just like DeafDyke
The parent said:

Epilog:
Many of the stories I read on AllDeaf are about hard time in childhood due to deafness. Caused by bad parenting or other reasons. Many stories I read are about the happiness and warmth felt when Deaf Culture is discovered, signlanguage is learned. Finally being able to communicate freely. Be understood completely within that community. In addition the feeling of "why couldn't that have been when I grew up." Perhaps for some a feeling of being betrayed because it was withheld from them...

I can speak for my daughter that she is growing up happy. She learned to hear, listen and speak. And I hope that in the future she will discover Deaf community. (We'll point her in that direction eventually.) And I hope she will learn sign language if she so desires. And that she then will be able to freely communicate with the deaf people that want to communicate with her.

I'm very sure that the one thing she will not feel when/if she embraces Deaf culture is the feeling of being betrayed...

You are missing the point. CIs do not guarantee you will have good speech, let alone good speech discrimination.

Cloggy · 02-10-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You are missing the point. CIs do not guarantee you will have good speech, let alone good speech discrimination.

Not at all.
You sound as if you want a guarantee that CI will give good speech..
Well, the possibilities are much, much better with CI than without.

Simplified: making your child work, work, work to obtain good speech without CI or making your child play, play, play and obtain good speech... With CI.

deafbajagal · 02-10-2012, 03:24 PM

Mom and Dad said I had a great childhood, was well-adjusted, bright, had friends, and was generally happy. Funny...I don't remember it that way at all. I was a good at pleasing them, which morphed me into being a co-dependent who would do anything to keep others happy. Smile, nod, pretend you understand. Many deaf people are great at parroting so they can mainstreamed with the people around them. And it comes with a big cost.

How many times did I say YES when someone asked me if I understood, to avoid embarassment, to avoid them saying the same thing the exact same way, except yelling, or for them to say, Oh, never mind...it was not important.

Yes, I understand. Yes, I am happy. Yes, I am hearing like you.

DeafCaroline · 02-10-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Not at all.
You sound as if you want a guarantee that CI will give good speech..
Well, the possibilities are much, much better with CI than without.

Simplified: making your child work, work, work to obtain good speech without CI or making your child play, play, play and obtain good speech... With CI.

whatever you say. you clearly know what's best for a deaf person more than deaf people do. how silly of me to ever doubt that.

if i had a deaf child, i would let her play and sign and be with others like herself.

**shel90** · 02-10-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

You are missing the point. CIs do not guarantee you will have good speech, let alone good speech discrimination.

Very very true.

**shel90** · 02-10-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

... And you missed the point... (not just you)
Of course having good speech skills are important... And it takes hard work to achieve that level.. As Shel explained...
So... If good perch is very important, and you don't want your children to suffer to obtain good speech, like many deaf people have, wouldn't CI be a good option?
With early implantation, speech would develop naturally.
When you wait 15 years for the child to make their own decision, they would first have to work hard to start speech, and then work hard to learn to listen...

So, if good speech is important, I would expect a large support for CI..

-------------
Just to add, (and preventing Lotte saying ILY too many times..)...
Showed our discussion to another parent whose child has difficulties hearing.. and that parent was moved by DeafCorolines post, just like DeafDyke
The parent said:

Epilog:
Many of the stories I read on AllDeaf are about hard time in childhood due to deafness. Caused by bad parenting or other reasons. Many stories I read are about the happiness and warmth felt when Deaf Culture is discovered, signlanguage is learned. Finally being able to communicate freely. Be understood completely within that community. In addition the feeling of "why couldn't that have been when I grew up." Perhaps for some a feeling of being betrayed because it was withheld from them...

I can speak for my daughter that she is growing up happy. She learned to hear, listen and speak. And I hope that in the future she will discover Deaf community. (We'll point her in that direction eventually.) And I hope she will learn sign language if she so desires. And that she then will be able to freely communicate with the deaf people that want to communicate with her.

I'm very sure that the one thing she will not feel when/if she embraces Deaf culture is the feeling of being betrayed...

No, you missed the point. Big time.

Jane B. · 02-10-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

No, you missed the point. Big time.

I have seen this kind a response from any number of people here about different issues without them going on and saying what the point that was missed actually is. How are they to do anything about the point missed if they did miss it and thus don't know what it is?

Cloggy · 02-10-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

No, you missed the point. Big time.

Really...
So, a deaf child should just go through the same shit as you went through...

DeafCaroline · 02-10-2012, 04:34 PM

They should not have to go through the same shit at all. that's the point. you seem to think the solution to all deaf children's woes is to simply implant them, problem solved.

View Poll Results: Kids get CI??
Yes. why not	7	25.93%
No.	9	33.33%
Maybe.	11	40.74%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

02-09-2012, 12:09 AM	#34 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,087	and I AM NOT oralist at ALL! Simply b/c I suggested that in SOME cases, implantation might be a good idea does not make me oralist at ALL! Oceanbreeze likes this.

02-09-2012, 10:08 AM	#39 (permalink)
ash345 Audist Free Zone Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 806	No I would not get my children CI's if they happen to be deaf. I want my kids to grow up proud of who they are, deaf or hearing. My children will be exposed to sign from the day they are born, will grow up in Deaf Culture, will understand they are perfect just the way they are. If my children get older and decide they want to go with a CI, then sure... when they can understand what a CI is what it does, and what the potential risks are, then they can make that decision on their own... but I will not allow my children to get a CI before they are of legal adult age (18)... only then can they make the decision on their own... __________________ with a capital D, more than just a state of being, its family, belonging, home "Love and dreams are miraculous, they don't need to be heard or said or translated, only felt" That Deaf Girl

02-09-2012, 11:22 AM	#41 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	Not important to have perfect speech? Then why bother with it? Imperfect speech makes the person look and sound dumb, at least in our society. What is "good enough?" When a child reaches his/her plateau? But a deaf person can have perfect expressive skills through manual communication...why deny him/ her that opprtunity. Speech training ruined my self esteem. No matter how hard I worked, I was never good enough. I avoid family functions because I do not want to be in the position to have to speak. The process of learning to speak and using speech was, and still is, very unnatural and painful. deafdyke and ash345 like this.

02-09-2012, 11:38 AM	#43 (permalink)
ash345 Audist Free Zone Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 806	that once again, is something that will be left up to my children... they want to learn to speak, they can... but it isn't a contract that they are setting themselves up for... __________________ with a capital D, more than just a state of being, its family, belonging, home "Love and dreams are miraculous, they don't need to be heard or said or translated, only felt" That Deaf Girl

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

02-09-2012, 11:24 AM	#42 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	My ability to have speech is not a mark of accomplishment. It's a scar.

02-09-2012, 02:59 PM	#45 (permalink)
Lissa Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,296 Blog Entries: 1	No, I would wait till they're old enough to decide. I was lucky enough to be old enough to be part of the decision making.

02-09-2012, 04:50 PM	#46 (permalink)
dogmom Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5,472	DC, I've experienced most of that....

02-10-2012, 12:26 AM	#49 (permalink)
deafdyke Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 13,087	and Deaf Caroline, this needs to be required reading for EVERY single parent of a dhh kid out there. How I wish those goddamn Auditory-Verbal, and pro oral only experts could read your post! DeafCaroline likes this.

02-10-2012, 03:24 PM	#54 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	Mom and Dad said I had a great childhood, was well-adjusted, bright, had friends, and was generally happy. Funny...I don't remember it that way at all. I was a good at pleasing them, which morphed me into being a co-dependent who would do anything to keep others happy. Smile, nod, pretend you understand. Many deaf people are great at parroting so they can mainstreamed with the people around them. And it comes with a big cost. How many times did I say YES when someone asked me if I understood, to avoid embarassment, to avoid them saying the same thing the exact same way, except yelling, or for them to say, Oh, never mind...it was not important. Yes, I understand. Yes, I am happy. Yes, I am hearing like you. deafdyke, Speedy Hawk and ash345 like this.

02-10-2012, 04:34 PM	#60 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	They should not have to go through the same shit at all. that's the point. you seem to think the solution to all deaf children's woes is to simply implant them, problem solved. deafdyke and ash345 like this.

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