Hearing people's view of CI - Page 6

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

I did. How about you listen for a change?

That wouldn't be a change.... Listening all the time.. Sorry I don't agree with you..

You are saying repeating sounds perfectly is no problem for deaf people...???
Interesting..
Wouldn't you need accurate feedback in order to do that.?

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

That wouldn't be a change.... Listening all the time.. Sorry I don't agree with you..

You are saying repeating sounds perfectly is no problem for deaf people...???
Interesting..
Wouldn't you need accurate feedback in order to do that.?

No.

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flip

You can say it's like that for some parents, at least some in this thread are in danger of appearing that way.

My point was however that not all parents necessary have a strong faith in what they did, but those who claim parents are able to do "informed choices", or claim they managed to do so, rarely admit the drama most parents are caught in, with strong influences, aware or unaware. Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist.

In general, CI surgery teams and audiologist don't communicate well with sociologist, psychologist and linquistics and the deaf community. The result is, sadly, a major ****up in many parents thinking.

There will alway be doubt at any decision one makes. Only time will remove the doubt bit by bit. And that goes both ways. Yes/no for CI.
People that choose not to let their child hear, and raise the child with signlanguage will also have their doubts about their decision. Only in time, seeing that their decision was good, that communication is established, friends are made, school is going well.. all these factors help to grind away the doubt.

Parents that make the choice for CI will have gone through an emotional process leading to their decision, and with it there will will be doubts. Will it work. How successful will it be... Only when CI is activated this doubt will be (for most) reduced when communication is established etc. like with the decision to raise a child deaf.
For me, and many other parents that have made the same decision, any doubts about making the decision TO have faded away. For some faster than for others..

The problems start - in any of the choices made - with communication. When this is not established from day 1, there will be problems. When the child cannot hear, and the parents don't use signs: there will be problems. When the child learns sign, but the parents don't: there will be problems. When the parents decide for CI, but do not establish a form of communication before the child can here: there will be problems. When a child has CI and the parents think that the problems are fixed now.. there will be problems..
When a someone that has been deaf all his/her life and decided to "try" a CI expecting to hear: there will be problems..

Any decision a parent (or any other person) takes regarding CI requires full involvement in the process. Whether learning to use sign language (fluently) or to (help) learn make sense out of the new input. No involvement - no success. And even with that.. success is not guaranteed..
Your child might be fluent in sign language, have many deaf friends, be happy in the Deaf world, but in a family setting the parents have to be interpreters.. Contact with the nearby family and friends is a problem. Your child might be able to hear with CI, but not enough to speak and listen to a conversation..
In the end, success is defined by expectations...

If you expect CI the give you hearing.. you might be disappointed. If you expect sign language is solving the communication gap, you might be disappointed.

But... when it works... when the decision turns out to be successful.. when all the studying you have done has paid off, when all the attention to your child proves to be working... parents have all the right to be proud of it, and to share it. Whether their child is deaf or can hear.

btw.. when you said "Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist."... this is perhaps even more strong the other way around.
The pressure from Deaf community might even be bigger. When part of Deaf community, one has to be very strong to consider CI.. Even stronger to go through with it.. Because... any hint of wanting to hear sounds is regarded as treason.. Let alone enjoying sounds....
Nobody wants to lose their family and friends...

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

No.

I'm listening to you...

Sure

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

There will alway be doubt at any decision one makes. Only time will remove the doubt bit by bit. And that goes both ways. Yes/no for CI.
People that choose not to let their child hear,

Ok, I have a HUGE issue with the word "let" - it's like you're saying a parent is withholding the child's hearing and deciding to "let" the child have it back. No, there was no "letting" or "permission given" - it's a parent paying the doctor to go ahead and implant a CI into their child's body whether or not the child asked for it.

...and raise the child with signlanguage will also have their doubts about their decision. Only in time, seeing that their decision was good, that communication is established, friends are made, school is going well.. all these factors help to grind away the doubt.

Your daughter is still young yet. Wait till she graduates from university before you say her progress has ground away any doubts.

Parents that make the choice for CI will have gone through an emotional process leading to their decision, and with it there will will be doubts. Will it work. How successful will it be... Only when CI is activated this doubt will be (for most) reduced when communication is established etc. like with the decision to raise a child deaf.

You made a decision to raise a child deaf? She was already deaf to begin with and by the way, she's still deaf.

For me, and many other parents that have made the same decision, any doubts about making the decision TO have faded away. For some faster than for others..

Any decision a parent (or any other person) takes regarding CI requires full involvement in the process. Whether learning to use sign language (fluently) or to (help) learn make sense out of the new input. No involvement - no success. And even with that.. success is not guaranteed..
Your child might be fluent in sign language, have many deaf friends, be happy in the Deaf world, but in a family setting the parents have to be interpreters..

No, they don't have to be interpreters. They teach their child how to communicate for themselves. My parents never interpreted for me, they would literally give me a shove and say "I am not going to ask them, you ask." or "If you didn't hear what they said, just ask them to repeat or write it down." My parents were insistent that I learn independence from a very young age.

Contact with the nearby family and friends is a problem. Your child might be able to hear with CI, but not enough to speak and listen to a conversation..
In the end, success is defined by expectations...

Oh, it's problematic for hearing family to learn sign but not for a deaf child to learn to speak and hear... Hmmm....

btw.. when you said "Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist."... this is perhaps even more strong the other way around.
The pressure from Deaf community might even be bigger. When part of Deaf community, one has to be very strong to consider CI.. Even stronger to go through with it.. Because... any hint of wanting to hear sounds is regarded as treason.. Let alone enjoying sounds....

You're way off base on this one. I'm really surprised that you've been on AD for a number of years and still think like this. Do you browse any threads other than the CI thread on AD?

Nobody wants to lose their family and friends...

Sounds like you're saying if we choose not to implant, we will have no family or friends. This is exactly where we keep trying to educate you that you're very much mistaken when you say things like that...would be nice if you actually take in this kind of information instead of dismissing.

I notice you have a lot of opinions, which is fine, but do you ever once say to any AD member:" wow, I learned something new from you, thanks! This will help me understand my daughter better."

Never seen you say that ever.

flip · 01-26-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

There will alway be doubt at any decision one makes. Only time will remove the doubt bit by bit. And that goes both ways. Yes/no for CI.
People that choose not to let their child hear, and raise the child with signlanguage will also have their doubts about their decision. Only in time, seeing that their decision was good, that communication is established, friends are made, school is going well.. all these factors help to grind away the doubt.

Parents that make the choice for CI will have gone through an emotional process leading to their decision, and with it there will will be doubts. Will it work. How successful will it be... Only when CI is activated this doubt will be (for most) reduced when communication is established etc. like with the decision to raise a child deaf.
For me, and many other parents that have made the same decision, any doubts about making the decision TO have faded away. For some faster than for others..

The problems start - in any of the choices made - with communication. When this is not established from day 1, there will be problems. When the child cannot hear, and the parents don't use signs: there will be problems. When the child learns sign, but the parents don't: there will be problems. When the parents decide for CI, but do not establish a form of communication before the child can here: there will be problems. When a child has CI and the parents think that the problems are fixed now.. there will be problems..
When a someone that has been deaf all his/her life and decided to "try" a CI expecting to hear: there will be problems..

Any decision a parent (or any other person) takes regarding CI requires full involvement in the process. Whether learning to use sign language (fluently) or to (help) learn make sense out of the new input. No involvement - no success. And even with that.. success is not guaranteed..
Your child might be fluent in sign language, have many deaf friends, be happy in the Deaf world, but in a family setting the parents have to be interpreters.. Contact with the nearby family and friends is a problem. Your child might be able to hear with CI, but not enough to speak and listen to a conversation..
In the end, success is defined by expectations...

If you expect CI the give you hearing.. you might be disappointed. If you expect sign language is solving the communication gap, you might be disappointed.

But... when it works... when the decision turns out to be successful.. when all the studying you have done has paid off, when all the attention to your child proves to be working... parents have all the right to be proud of it, and to share it. Whether their child is deaf or can hear.

btw.. when you said "Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist."... this is perhaps even more strong the other way around.
The pressure from Deaf community might even be bigger. When part of Deaf community, one has to be very strong to consider CI.. Even stronger to go through with it.. Because... any hint of wanting to hear sounds is regarded as treason.. Let alone enjoying sounds....
Nobody wants to lose their family and friends...

Parents have been saying those things for years, and hoh/deaf people have been unhappy how they were raised for years. Time to move on anyone? No? Ok

flip · 01-26-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

No speech therapy... she never had it...
... on the latter part... what claim was that?

That answer tell me you didn't understand the post. Never mind.

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

There will alway be doubt at any decision one makes. Only time will remove the doubt bit by bit. And that goes both ways. Yes/no for CI.
People that choose not to let their child hear,

Ok, I have a HUGE issue with the word "let" - it's like you're saying a parent is withholding the child's hearing and deciding to "let" the child have it back. No, there was no "letting" or "permission given" - it's a parent paying the doctor to go ahead and implant a CI into their child's body whether or not the child asked for it.
OK.. replace "let" with "providing the ability to hear"..
The child never asks for it. The child is too young.. Been there before.. Parents make the decision.. Guess you don't agree... Shall we go there again... How for CI the (scientifically proven) outcome is best when done early???

...and raise the child with signlanguage will also have their doubts about their decision. Only in time, seeing that their decision was good, that communication is established, friends are made, school is going well.. all these factors help to grind away the doubt.

Your daughter is still young yet. Wait till she graduates from university before you say her progress has ground away any doubts.
Can you hear yourself "wait until... " You cannot imagine it works, can you..???

You cannot imagine that doubts about us taking the right decision are gone. Would something happen later in life, new decisions can be made. But the decision to choose CI for Lotte is a succes. Forfilled all expectations...

Parents that make the choice for CI will have gone through an emotional process leading to their decision, and with it there will will be doubts. Will it work. How successful will it be... Only when CI is activated this doubt will be (for most) reduced when communication is established etc. like with the decision to raise a child deaf.

You made a decision to raise a deaf child? Um, wasn't that decision made at the time of her conception?Funny you..

No.. that would be some other parents.. "decision to raise a child deaf." as in making the decision for the child not to be able to hear but to raise the child without the ability to hear...
OK... hope this cleared it up for you

For me, and many other parents that have made the same decision, any doubts about making the decision TO have faded away. For some faster than for others..

Any decision a parent (or any other person) takes regarding CI requires full involvement in the process. Whether learning to use sign language (fluently) or to (help) learn make sense out of the new input. No involvement - no success. And even with that.. success is not guaranteed..
Your child might be fluent in sign language, have many deaf friends, be happy in the Deaf world, but in a family setting the parents have to be interpreters..

No, they don't have to be interpreters. They teach their child how to communicate for themselves. My parents never interpreted for me, they would literally give me a shove and say "I am not going to ask them, you ask." or "If you didn't hear what they said, just ask them to repeat or write it down." My parents were insistent that I learn independence from a very young age.Very wise parents...

..
So your experience is how we should see the rest of all the deaf people out there? btw.. No way parents out there would feel a need to interpret for their child.??

Contact with the nearby family and friends is a problem. Your child might be able to hear with CI, but not enough to speak and listen to a conversation..
In the end, success is defined by expectations...

Oh, it's problematic for hearing family to learn sign but not for a deaf child to learn to speak and hear... Hmmm....Learning to sign is not a problem... if you sign day in and day out.. Like learning another language. Anyone can.. if you are exposed to it you can learn it fluently.. That would be the immediate family.. So.. the rest of the world needs to sign because someone is deaf. France should learn Chinese because there's a Chinese person that emigrated to France..??
How is the MExican grandmother keep up with ASL signlanguage to communicate with her grandson living in Toronto? Pure willpower?? Or.. would it be nice if the boy would be able to learn Spanish and French and Enlish and speak to his grandmother...

btw.. when you said "Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist."... this is perhaps even more strong the other way around.
The pressure from Deaf community might even be bigger. When part of Deaf community, one has to be very strong to consider CI.. Even stronger to go through with it.. Because... any hint of wanting to hear sounds is regarded as treason.. Let alone enjoying sounds....

You're way off base on this one. I'm really surprised that you've been on AD for a number of years and still think like this. Do you browse any threads other than the CI thread on AD? Yes.. and other messageboards.. Have you?

Nobody wants to lose their family and friends...

Sounds like you're saying if we choose not to implant, we will have no family or friends. This is exactly where we keep trying to educate you that you're very much mistaken when you say things like that...would be nice if you actually take in this kind of information instead of dismissing.Not dismissing anyting. I can see on Alldeaf that there's excellent friendships.. I can also see that there's a lot of problems between members and their parents. Can't you..??
I can see that a lot of the info to "us parents" is coming from miscommunication between parents and their deaf children..
But "Nobody wants to lose their family and friends..." is meant in the way that the Deaf community is providing the family and friends that some people never experienced with their own family before. It's a very powerfull connection.
"Sound of Fury" demonstrated that very well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

I notice you have a lot of opinions, which is fine, but do you ever once say to any AD member:" wow, I learned something new from you, thanks! This will help me understand my daughter better."

Never seen you say that ever.

Never?
I have stated many times that I have learned and am learning a lot here..
But if your opinion about learning is "seeing it only our way" then .. NO.. I haven't learned anything..

If you come with the argument ".. implant a CI into their child's body whether or not the child asked for it." you haven't paying much attention.. Just pushing your arguments..

But I have learned a lot. For example..
If you start a thread here about deaf parents talking about their decision to let there deaf child hear (yes.. I use "let" again).. the thread will be removed asap...
For some reason, arguments of those deaf people, deaf parents, should not be shown on AllDeaf...

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 03:44 PM

Yes, I can imagine CIs work. You are a hearing person who evidently only knows one person who is deaf, your daughter. that's not the same case for me. I know many deaf adults with CIs and many of them are currently learning ASL. They tell me things that they won't say to their own parents because they didn't want to make them upset.

It's the same for me here - there are many things I've written about here on AD that I can never bring up with my family for many complicated reasons.

It's premature to say all doubts have been erased when your child is still so young yet.

Yes, I do browse other threads and I do read about deaf people and deaf culture. I'm deaf, remember? I have a wider interest in deaf matters than you apparently who seem to focus only on CI-related subjects.

Not understanding your last sentence - you're saying deaf parents talking about "letting" their deaf kids hear should not be allowed on AD?

As for pushing my argument, well, you're doing the same for yours.

**GrendelQ** · 01-26-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

I notice you have a lot of opinions, which is fine, but do you ever once say to any AD member:" wow, I learned something new from you, thanks! This will help me understand my daughter better."

Never seen you say that ever.

I have. I've seen Cloggy take and synthesize input from the Deaf community, with gratitude, looking back through his many years here starting well before I began reading regularly almost 5 years ago.

And I've also seen him (and others) as a great source of information and inspiration, and I'm surprised that you don't find that to be the case as well, especially when it comes to topics that he has experience with -- raising a deaf child, making a decision about CIs, etc. -- that most here don't have. Fewer and fewer stick around given the reception, but still, there's a regular stream of new parents of deaf children who stop by looking for information about what it means to be deaf (which those who are themselves deaf can provide) and what's involved in raising deaf kids and making decisions about technology and language and the current state of academic placement (which those who are both deaf and hearing and have raised or are now raising deaf children can provide).

That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, and can also provide a great deal of info. about what our children are experiencing both to this community and to the next generation of new parents who come here. But the deaf community here and beyond is not homogeneous, so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 03:57 PM

"That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, ....so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment."

Majority of dhh/deaf in this community (I'm assuming you mean AD) recommend mainstreaming? Really?

***naisho*** · 01-26-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

But I have learned a lot. For example..
If you start a thread here about deaf parents talking about their decision to let there deaf child hear (yes.. I use "let" again).. the thread will be removed asap...
For some reason, arguments of those deaf people, deaf parents, should not be shown on AllDeaf...

AllDeaf doesn't censor anything other than primarily unwanted posts that might contain: harassment, provoking, belittling, opinion-bashing, and obvious related criteria. If one can express opinions without intending for a flame war, nothing happens to those threads. If a jihad happens, then you pretty much lose the thread, period.

Anything, whether opinion, information, or suggestion that is seen as intended to stir trouble, resentment, hostility or makes members take pitchforks against another is taken away without a second thought.

There is a fine line from what shouldn't be posted vs debating and respecting the opinions of others, even if you beg to differ.

**GrendelQ** · 01-26-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

"That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, ....so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment."

Majority of dhh/deaf in this community (I'm assuming you mean AD) recommend mainstreaming? Really?

It probably would be more clear to you if you hadn't mixed and matched sentence fragments to create a new quote. Take a look at the original sentence:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

But the deaf community here and beyond is not homogeneous, so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

It probably would be more clear to you if you hadn't mixed and matched sentence fragments to create a new quote. Take a look at the original sentence:

didn't mix and match at all and my dots were to show that a part was left out.
You wrote: "That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, and can also provide a great deal of info. about what our children are experiencing both to this community and to the next generation of new parents who come here. But the deaf community here and beyond is not homogeneous, so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment."

I quoted: ""That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, ....so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment."

SAME PARAGRAPH

Where's the mixing and matching? I left out the part in the middle of the same paragraph because I am asking you if you're saying that "from this community...majority of dhh/deaf recommend mainstreaming" and I even threw in "I'm assuming by "this community" you mean AD". If I'm wrong, just say so.

There was no mixing/matching. That made me laugh though, thanks.

You still haven't answered the question BTW.

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

AllDeaf doesn't censor anything other than primarily unwanted posts that might contain: harassment, provoking, belittling, opinion-bashing, and obvious related criteria. If one can express opinions without intending for a flame war, nothing happens to those threads. If a jihad happens, then you pretty much lose the thread, period.

Anything, whether opinion, information, or suggestion that is seen as intended to stir trouble, resentment, hostility or makes members take pitchforks against another is taken away without a second thought.

There is a fine line from what shouldn't be posted vs debating and respecting the opinions of others, even if you beg to differ.

I'm grateful for the info..
However... the thread I started was regarding an article I read and wanted to share. It was removed before any new posts could be made.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

I'm grateful for the info..
However... the thread I started was regarding an article I read and wanted to share. It was removed before any new posts could be made.

Which article?

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

............
Not understanding your last sentence - you're saying deaf parents talking about "letting" their deaf kids hear should not be allowed on AD?
......

Most definitely not..
I'm saying that when I started a thread showing deaf parents making a decision for their child to have CI, this thread was removed in a flash..
As if arguments from those parents are not welcome here.

Already read the post from the Mod naisho that this is not the case..

So, I might try to start that thread again....

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Which article?

In the post: but again, clickable here...
"If you start a thread here about deaf parents talking about their decision to let there deaf child hear (yes.. I use "let" again).. the thread will be removed asap..."

AlleyCat · 01-26-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

I'm grateful for the info..
However... the thread I started was regarding an article I read and wanted to share. It was removed before any new posts could be made.

Then it was clearly removed under guidelines, such as:

Quote:

Originally Posted by naisho

Anything, whether opinion, information, or suggestion that is seen as intended to stir trouble, resentment, hostility or makes members take pitchforks against another is taken away without a second thought.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

In the post: but again, clickable here...
"If you start a thread here about deaf parents talking about their decision to let there deaf child hear (yes.. I use "let" again).. the thread will be removed asap..."

"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to cochlearimplantonline.com
Suggestions:
Access a cached copy of cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Try reloading: cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Search on Google:"

Jane B. · 01-26-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to cochlearimplantonline.com
Suggestions:
Access a cached copy of cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Try reloading: cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Search on Google:"

Do you happen to also have Firefox? It was a bit slow to load but came up just fine in the end for me using Firefox.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 04:54 PM

I don't use FireFox - it keeps hanging during page loading and freezing my Mac so I switched over to Chrome.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 04:57 PM

Saw the article finally...see Cloggy? Not all Deaf people are against CIs in kids.

I'm wondering if the deaf parent grew up with oralism and speech therapy herself. It states ASL as her primary language.

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

"Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to cochlearimplantonline.com
Suggestions:
Access a cached copy of cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Try reloading: cochlearimplanto*nline.*com/*site/*3787/*deaf-*parents-*cochlear-*implant-*story/*
Search on Google:"

I'm on chrome and the link works fine..
Don't search.. click the link..

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

I'm on chrome and the link works fine..
Don't search.. click the link..

See the post before yours.

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

See the post before yours.

Sometimes 6 minutes is what it takes to post...

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline

Saw the article finally...see Cloggy? Not all Deaf people are against CIs in kids.

I'm wondering if the deaf parent grew up with oralism and speech therapy herself. It states ASL as her primary language.

No surprise.. I knew that... Have been talking to many d/Deaf pro CI people.. here and elsewhere...
Surprised?

The thread was started not because I found this astonishing... but to share information..

Cloggy · 01-26-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephaniep21

There have been all these videos circulating on facebook lately of infants being implanted and everyone being like OMG THEY CAN HEAR NOW!!!! Yes, their brain can process sound electronically, but your child is still deaf. People jump to CI when they have a deaf child because they think that the child cannot possibly lead a happy, fulfilling life without them. I'm not against CI, I just think that people should be able to make their own decisions regarding them. My friend who's deaf got her first CI when she was 8; she was old enough to know what was going on and had a say in the decision. My cousin who is deaf is 25 and thinking about getting the esteem implant when and if she can afford it. Again, it's her decision and no one else's.

Who said that?
That's not my experience...

It's interesting you say "..your child is still deaf."
I suddenly realise.. "deaf" is a label here... It's an identification for the group..
The child cannot hear without CI, so it is "deaf". It belongs in the deaf people world..
I see "deaf" as a physical thing... as "not able to hear".. Not a label, but a way to describe a function.

As a parent looking at his daughter listening & chatting away to her family, friends, on the telephone.. my daughter is not deaf. Her whole waking time is spent listening to sounds. And when she goes to sleep, she takes off the CI to be charged, and goes to sleep... after some more chatting...
If "deaf" means "cannot hear anything" or "cannot recognise speech".. then this child is not deaf.

So... she's "deaf" so that she can "belong" in the group with all other people that have been born deaf or became deaf. But otherwise .. she's not deaf.

She's been born deaf... now she can hear.

DeafCaroline · 01-26-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Who said that?
That's not my experience...

It's interesting you say "..your child is still deaf."
I suddenly realise.. "deaf" is a label here... It's an identification for the group..
The child cannot hear without CI, so it is "deaf". It belongs in the deaf people world..
I see "deaf" as a physical thing... as "not able to hear".. Not a label, but a way to describe a function.

As a parent looking at his daughter listening & chatting away to her family, friends, on the telephone.. my daughter is not deaf. Her whole waking time is spent listening to sounds. And when she goes to sleep, she takes off the CI to be charged, and goes to sleep... after some more chatting...
If "deaf" means "cannot hear anything" or "cannot recognise speech".. then this child is not deaf.

So... she's "deaf" so that she can "belong" in the group with all other people that have been born deaf or became deaf. But otherwise .. she's not deaf.

She's been born deaf... now she can hear.

Sigh...back to square one again.

**shel90** · 01-26-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

There will alway be doubt at any decision one makes. Only time will remove the doubt bit by bit. And that goes both ways. Yes/no for CI.
People that choose not to let their child hear, and raise the child with signlanguage will also have their doubts about their decision. Only in time, seeing that their decision was good, that communication is established, friends are made, school is going well.. all these factors help to grind away the doubt.

Parents that make the choice for CI will have gone through an emotional process leading to their decision, and with it there will will be doubts. Will it work. How successful will it be... Only when CI is activated this doubt will be (for most) reduced when communication is established etc. like with the decision to raise a child deaf.
For me, and many other parents that have made the same decision, any doubts about making the decision TO have faded away. For some faster than for others..

The problems start - in any of the choices made - with communication. When this is not established from day 1, there will be problems. When the child cannot hear, and the parents don't use signs: there will be problems. When the child learns sign, but the parents don't: there will be problems. When the parents decide for CI, but do not establish a form of communication before the child can here: there will be problems. When a child has CI and the parents think that the problems are fixed now.. there will be problems..
When a someone that has been deaf all his/her life and decided to "try" a CI expecting to hear: there will be problems..

Any decision a parent (or any other person) takes regarding CI requires full involvement in the process. Whether learning to use sign language (fluently) or to (help) learn make sense out of the new input. No involvement - no success. And even with that.. success is not guaranteed..
Your child might be fluent in sign language, have many deaf friends, be happy in the Deaf world, but in a family setting the parents have to be interpreters.. Contact with the nearby family and friends is a problem. Your child might be able to hear with CI, but not enough to speak and listen to a conversation..
In the end, success is defined by expectations...

If you expect CI the give you hearing.. you might be disappointed. If you expect sign language is solving the communication gap, you might be disappointed.

But... when it works... when the decision turns out to be successful.. when all the studying you have done has paid off, when all the attention to your child proves to be working... parents have all the right to be proud of it, and to share it. Whether their child is deaf or can hear.

btw.. when you said "Even those who takes input from the deaf community or linquistics, are still under pressure from oralist."... this is perhaps even more strong the other way around.
The pressure from Deaf community might even be bigger. When part of Deaf community, one has to be very strong to consider CI.. Even stronger to go through with it.. Because... any hint of wanting to hear sounds is regarded as treason.. Let alone enjoying sounds....
Nobody wants to lose their family and friends...

Have you ever heard of doing both? Whats wrong with that?

01-26-2012, 03:44 PM	#159 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	Yes, I can imagine CIs work. You are a hearing person who evidently only knows one person who is deaf, your daughter. that's not the same case for me. I know many deaf adults with CIs and many of them are currently learning ASL. They tell me things that they won't say to their own parents because they didn't want to make them upset. It's the same for me here - there are many things I've written about here on AD that I can never bring up with my family for many complicated reasons. It's premature to say all doubts have been erased when your child is still so young yet. Yes, I do browse other threads and I do read about deaf people and deaf culture. I'm deaf, remember? I have a wider interest in deaf matters than you apparently who seem to focus only on CI-related subjects. Not understanding your last sentence - you're saying deaf parents talking about "letting" their deaf kids hear should not be allowed on AD? As for pushing my argument, well, you're doing the same for yours. deafdyke and ash345 like this.

01-26-2012, 03:57 PM	#161 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	"That handful of us who are hearing and deaf parents of deaf kids can and do learn a lot from this community, ....so some of us may be listening to those who are deaf/hoh, as you suggest: listening to the majority of those who say go mainstream (whether with ASL or oral support) or deaf school (oral) vs. a minority who advise that deaf kids need to learn in an ASL environment." Majority of dhh/deaf in this community (I'm assuming you mean AD) recommend mainstreaming? Really? ash345 likes this.

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01-26-2012, 04:54 PM	#172 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	I don't use FireFox - it keeps hanging during page loading and freezing my Mac so I switched over to Chrome.

01-26-2012, 04:57 PM	#173 (permalink)
DeafCaroline Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,889	Saw the article finally...see Cloggy? Not all Deaf people are against CIs in kids. I'm wondering if the deaf parent grew up with oralism and speech therapy herself. It states ASL as her primary language.