To Implant or Not to Implant?? - Page 3

**GrendelQ** · 11-03-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I'm more interested in the implications of the stories you tell about your daughter as anything more than stories about your daughter. What purpose exactly do these stories mean other than you are a mom who is very excited to be a mom and loves to tell little stories about your daughter?

Well, then there's also the direct contradiction of your uninformed assumptions about CIs by our real life experiences.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

You can also take a look at one very practical means of assessing what's heard: how she sounds. Output is going to reflect what she hears. So if she's robotic, you can assume that's what she's hearing. If she sounds melodic ... that's how she hears. She's extremely melodic.

You are making some assumptions that don't quite hold up.

Sunshine · 11-03-2011, 03:17 PM

I hear silence. I bet when I laugh (etc) it not sound same I hear it.

Speedy Hawk · 11-03-2011, 03:18 PM

No way CI give access to ALL sounds. It gives SOME access to sound, it might seem lot if CI is successful for child. It happens after long hard training. If CI gives access to all sound then deaf child would hear perfectly well as heading child BUT deaf child don't reach that level with CI. They still need support in education, etc.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

Well, then there's also the direct contradiction of your uninformed assumptions about CIs by our real life experiences.

My assumptions aren't uninformed. I daresay I have studied the mechanics of the CI and the processing of sound in the brain both through mechanical stimulation and natural stimulation,moreso than you ever have.You have a mere few years experience with a CI using pre-schooler. My scope extends over all ages and all factions. My observations are made using that knowlege. Your observations come from the position of a new loving mother. Not quite the subjectivity you need to make some of the conclusion you draw.

Mountain Man · 11-03-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

You can also take a look at one very practical means of assessing what's heard: how she sounds. Output is going to reflect what she hears. So if she's robotic, you can assume that's what she's hearing. If she sounds melodic ... that's how she hears. She's extremely melodic.

One can be melodic with access to a limited range of frequencies. For that matter, even someone profoundly deaf can develop a melodic speaking voice with enough therapy and training. Your anecdote doesn't contradict anything I have said.

**GrendelQ** · 11-03-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshine

I hear silence. I bet when I laugh (etc) it not sound same I hear it.

We're talking about mirroring a sound that's been heard. If I sing a scale to you, and your CI gives you sound as simulated by MM's simulation (it's like static, if you've ever had some hearing and have heard static, nearly impossible to make out words, much less music) -- you would sing back what you hear: something like the static. But, if I sing a scale, and Li sings back the notes correctly, it shows that she's not hearing anything like the staticky simulation -- which doesn't provide all the sounds in that scale.

posts from hell · 11-03-2011, 03:25 PM

Here we go again..............

Mountain Man · 11-03-2011, 03:27 PM

Yeah, I think I will bow out of this one.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

We're talking about mirroring a sound that's been heard. If I sing a scale to you, and your CI gives you sound as simulated by MM's simulation (it's like static, if you've ever had some hearing and have heard static, nearly impossible to make out words, much less music) -- you would sing back what you hear: something like the static. But, if I sing a scale, and Li sings back the notes correctly, it shows that she's not hearing anything like the staticky simulation -- which doesn't provide all the sounds in that scale.

Nope. Incorrect assumption.

BTW, getting ready for that recital?

jillio · 11-03-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Yeah, I think I will bow out of this one.

We all may as well. They have to sleep sometime.

Speedy Hawk · 11-03-2011, 03:29 PM

Don't you think that she hear static or other sound lower quality and able to copy that sound back doesn't mean she can hear sound same as you?

zajko · 11-03-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Hawk

No way CI give access to ALL sounds. It gives SOME access to sound, it might seem lot if CI is successful for child. It happens after long hard training. If CI gives access to all sound then deaf child would hear perfectly well as heading child BUT deaf child don't reach that level with CI. They still need support in education, etc.

Well, I don't think I have only "some" access to sound with a CI. I guess I can hear almost everything, but the main problem is distinguishing those sounds. Especially in noisy situations where lots of sounds are mixed and I'm not able to catch those important sounds correctly.

So I describe it like "I can hear the grass growing, but sometimes I don't know that it is the grass growing."

jillio · 11-03-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zajko

Well, I don't think I have only "some" access to sound with a CI. I guess I can hear almost everything, but the main problem is distinguishing those sounds. Especially in noisy situations where lots of sounds are mixed and I'm not able to catch those important sounds correctly.

So I describe it like "I can hear the grass growing, but sometimes I don't know that it is the grass growing."

Then you hear much better than hearing people do.

Your English certainly has improved compared to your other posts. Hmmm.....

faire_jour · 11-03-2011, 05:24 PM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

i have sat and watched them test my child. She hears at 15 db, that is audiologically considering hearing in the "normal range".

dB and frequency are two different things. You do know this, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

She has also had discrim testing that clearly shows her discriminating all the sounds of speech.

There's a disconnect between what you think you're seeing and what you're really seeing. When a CI is in place, the eardrum is still responding to whatever sound wave is hitting it. That's simple physics. However, a person with CI is typically not able to distinguish between closely grouped frequencies because the CI processes them as a single frequency. To put it another way, it is taking the entire range of frequencies and presenting them as a limited number of frequencies (typically 24 in a modern CI).

So while you could say, in theory, that a CI user has access to to the full range of speech sounds, this does not give an accurate picture of what they're actually hearing.

Does that make sense?

yes, she hears at between 15 and 20 db from 250 hz to 8000 hz. That is not all there is to hear, but that does cover the speech area.

as for pitch perception, i'm not sure what she hears. The processor is a speech processor, so it targets spoken language. I have no idea how she perceives music.

again, NO she does not have typical hearing, but she is able to discriminate all the sounds of spoken language. How do i know? Because she does it.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

yes, she hears at between 15 and 20 db from 250 hz to 8000 hz. That is not all there is to hear, but that does cover the speech area.

as for pitch perception, i'm not sure what she hears. The processor is a speech processor, so it targets spoken language. I have no idea how she perceives music.

again, NO she does not have typical hearing, but she is able to discriminate all the sounds of spoken language. How do i know? Because she does it.

You do understand, do you not, that pitch and timbre don't only involve music? They are important parts of the perception of speech.

zajko · 11-03-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Then you hear much better than hearing people do.

Your English certainly has improved compared to your other posts. Hmmm.....

Oh, do you know the term "hyperbole"?

And about my English - English is not my mother language, so the level of my English expressions can vary, depending on the complexity of what I want to say

jillio · 11-03-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zajko

Oh, do you know the term "hyperbole"?

And about my English - English is not my mother language, so the level of my English expressions can vary, depending on the complexity of what I want to say

The level of your English expressions appear to be able to able to change completely from those that are suspiciously "Russian" to those that are perfect English. Quite the accomplishment.

Yes, I know hyperbole. And a few other words that would be applicable, as well.

Frisky Feline · 11-03-2011, 05:41 PM

zajko how many Ci do you have now? i didnt find any posts about two or one. just curious.i also couldnt find your introducation so thats why i asked.

**shel90** · 11-03-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrendelQ

:laugh2: No parent of a child with a CI thinks that. Many are thrilled with what their children can hear, many children are thrilled with what they can hear, but no one who knows anything at all about how a CI really works would ever consider it a "magic fix." Our children are deaf, but they can access sound amazingly well with this little tool, this technology -- when it's turned on. It's only those who watch from afar who fear we believe it's a "cure" or a "fix." It's not a cure or fix any more than a hearing aid is -- does that make you no longer deaf? Fixed?

A wheelchair might provides someone with access, with mobility, and he or she might thinks that's great. It's wonderful technology, but he doesn't think he's been "fixed."

No parent ever thinks that? Not even one anywhere in this country or even in this world?

Are you sure about that?

**shel90** · 11-03-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Here we go again..............

I know..

My child is hearing!

No, my child is deaf but can hear like normal kids!

Whatever.

AlleyCat · 11-03-2011, 05:55 PM

Same ol' merry-go-round.

zajko · 11-03-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The level of your English expressions appear to be able to able to change completely from those that are suspiciously "Russian" to those that are perfect English. Quite the accomplishment.

It depends. Sometimes I'm really really trying to write correctly (with more or less success) because I don't want to present myself as an idiot

and sometimes I don't care about it and write just what comes on my mind and ignore even those basic rules like capital letters and punctuation and I don't think about grammar very much.
By the way, I'm doing the same even in my mother language, with only one difference - I don't use bad grammar.

Anyways, thanks that you care so much about it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

zajko how many Ci do you have now? i didnt find any posts about two or one. just curious.i also couldnt find your introducation so thats why i asked.

I have one implant for 12 years. With the same old bodyworn processor all that time. But I'm going to upgrade soon, so I'm curious if something changes in my sound and speech perception.
And about introduction.. uh, maybe I can write one. But .. I'm quite lazy

deafdyke · 11-03-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

It means that parents overestimate their child's functioning levels, abilities to function in a totally oral environment, and their happiness and social adjustment. As is evidenced by the differences in parental reports and reports from professionals that actually use specific criteria and know what to look for, and in the reports given by the children themselves.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!! FJ and Grendel, 29 years ago when I got my first hearing aids, the exact same things that are being said abt CI kids were being said about ME!!!! (and other dhh kids) A lot of parents are just "OMG!!!! My kid is functionally in a "healthy normal" sense!" Look at the testamonies of parents of oral kids from 10 or 20 years ago. They are IDENTICAL as to what you guys are saying......IDENTICAL!!! You know oral kids grow up, and very few of them join ODAS of AG Bell. Heck at the Clarke conference, they only had a handful of oral deaf(meaning severe/profound) adults contribuate.....there were a couple of mild moderate (progressive losses) and even a signing voice off and hearing aid off speaker....maybe that's b/c they couldn't find a lot of sucessful oral deaf (severe/profound) adults. heck, I know that one issue that AG Bell groups deal with is trying to find oral deaf aduts who want to be involved in their groups. I think that tells you something!!!!!

jillio · 11-03-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zajko

It depends. Sometimes I'm really really trying to write correctly (with more or less success) because I don't want to present myself as an idiot

and sometimes I don't care about it and write just what comes on my mind and ignore even those basic rules like capital letters and punctuation and I don't think about grammar very much.
By the way, I'm doing the same even in my mother language, with only one difference - I don't use bad grammar.

Anyways, thanks that you care so much about it

I have one implant for 12 years. With the same old bodyworn processor all that time. But I'm going to upgrade soon, so I'm curious if something changes in my sound and speech perception.
And about introduction.. uh, maybe I can write one. But .. I'm quite lazy

Wow, you write like a born American now! Quite a change from "My account "merlouska" was deleted. Can someone explain me, why?
I tried to contact administrator via contactform, but noone bothered with any respond." from less than 30 days ago. That is amazing progress.

posts from hell · 11-03-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Wow, you write like a born American now! Quite a change from "My account "merlouska" was deleted. Can someone explain me, why?
I tried to contact administrator via contactform, but noone bothered with any respond." from less than 30 days ago. That is amazing progress.

Money talks.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posts from hell

Money talks.

Ahhh....so that's it.

Beach girl · 11-03-2011, 06:49 PM

Jillio, no offense, but - considering your own frequent spelling and grammar errors, one might think sometimes that you are an 8th grader impersonating a more educated person. And sometimes you indeed write like a more educated person. So...let's just say people can write differently at different times, if they're paying more attention or not.

My Spanish can be like that: sometimes perfect, sometimes with errors. It happens. No reason to jump on this guy because he manages to write in correct English.

jillio · 11-03-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beach girl

Jillio, no offense, but - considering your own frequent spelling and grammar errors, one might think sometimes that you are an 8th grader impersonating a more educated person. And sometimes you indeed write like a more educated person. So...let's just say people can write differently at different times, if they're paying more attention or not.

My Spanish can be like that: sometimes perfect, sometimes with errors. It happens. No reason to jump on this guy because he manages to write in correct English.

I appreciate your input, but you are about to get into something regarding which you are making some superficial assumptions. The reality is indeed something else.

"Look before you leap" might well apply to this.

And if you will note, I was complementing him on his wonderful improvement in such a short time, not criticising him for writing in correct English.

Frisky Feline · 11-03-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zajko

I have one implant for 12 years. With the same old bodyworn processor all that time. But I'm going to upgrade soon, so I'm curious if something changes in my sound and speech perception.
And about introduction.. uh, maybe I can write one. But .. I'm quite lazy

cool.

11-03-2011, 03:17 PM	#63 (permalink)
Sunshine Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Home of Canucks! Posts: 3,269 Blog Entries: 2	I hear silence. I bet when I laugh (etc) it not sound same I hear it. jillio and ash345 like this.

11-03-2011, 03:18 PM	#64 (permalink)
Speedy Hawk Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: England Posts: 816	No way CI give access to ALL sounds. It gives SOME access to sound, it might seem lot if CI is successful for child. It happens after long hard training. If CI gives access to all sound then deaf child would hear perfectly well as heading child BUT deaf child don't reach that level with CI. They still need support in education, etc. deafdyke and jillio like this.

11-03-2011, 03:25 PM	#68 (permalink)
posts from hell Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9,434	Here we go again.............. deafdyke, jillio, deafskeptic and 1 others like this.

11-03-2011, 03:29 PM	#72 (permalink)
Speedy Hawk Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: England Posts: 816	Don't you think that she hear static or other sound lower quality and able to copy that sound back doesn't mean she can hear sound same as you? jillio and Mountain Man like this.

11-03-2011, 05:55 PM	#82 (permalink)
AlleyCat Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my time zone Posts: 10,833	Same ol' merry-go-round. jillio likes this.

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11-03-2011, 03:27 PM	#69 (permalink)
Mountain Man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 596	Yeah, I think I will bow out of this one.

11-03-2011, 05:41 PM	#79 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,239	zajko how many Ci do you have now? i didnt find any posts about two or one. just curious.i also couldnt find your introducation so thats why i asked.

11-03-2011, 06:49 PM	#88 (permalink)
Beach girl Registered User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: northern Virginia in winter; NC in summer Posts: 3,760	Jillio, no offense, but - considering your own frequent spelling and grammar errors, one might think sometimes that you are an 8th grader impersonating a more educated person. And sometimes you indeed write like a more educated person. So...let's just say people can write differently at different times, if they're paying more attention or not. My Spanish can be like that: sometimes perfect, sometimes with errors. It happens. No reason to jump on this guy because he manages to write in correct English. CSign likes this.

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