faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

not correcting or changing, just expanding and clarifying

speech perception testing and aural rehab/av therapy is done with out lipreading so yes, we know how much they are lipreading and how much they are hearing and discriminating.

Deafness

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GrendelQ

OK, I think I took your post a bit differently Please disregard my earlier take on it.

No offense FJ, but, now I'm a little bit confused about what you mean. I guess I think that SOME deaf kids can hear and understand teacher and classmates in a mainstream classroom, though definitely not perfectly, but not most, not even with a super HA or CI. I think my kid is doing brilliantly with her CIs, but still, I don't think she hears (or learns) in the same exact way as a hearing child and so I really prefer that my child is learning in the very tailored environment of 4-5 kids and 2 teachers that she's in rather than among 28 kids in a noisy classroom.

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deafbajagal

A lot of assessments done to measure speech discrimination, etc. are often done not in the typical educational environment (which is very noisy) but in a quiet room with only one other person...

Daredevel7

Well, it gets a little blurry there, because you are perfectly within your rights to say all that, because she uses her CI very well.

It's really too bad that the same van driver probably will also talk to me behind my back, and react "I don't get it. Why didn't you understand me? An adorable girl named Li had her CI and understands me perfectly". Someone always gets the short end of the stick.

I do it too. I always speak to people and I had HAs for most of my life. Im usually the first deaf person they have met. I am willing to bet some of them have reacted to other deaf people, thinking things like "I don't get it. I know this girl who can understand me and speak very well and she had only HAs. Why can't you do that? Ohhh, you must not be very intelligent."

Just one of those things that it's really no one's fault.......

I try to educate people the best way I can.

faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

i agree with you. I strongly dislike mainstreaming, especially for my own child, bit there are kids who do great with it. I was simply responding to the assertion that a deaf child in a spoken language classroom would not hear or understand their teachers or peers. Like they would be sitting there, with no information or access. That just isn't true. While i doubt that i would mainstream my child without HUGE accomidations, that doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to hear her teachers and peers. It just means that another setting would better meet her needs.

posts from hell

tHATS WHY MISREPRESENTATION SHOULD BE AVERTED.

faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

what sucks even worse is the fact that that bus driver will probably talk to li-li and chat and joke with her, but all in spoken language and those on the bus who don't have access will be left in the dark

posts from hell

wHOA WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE?

faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

yes, but the testing should also be done in noise and therapy will eventually move up the auditory skills hierarchy to include competing noise as well.

faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

what? I think it sucks when employees of a Deaf school don't sign. My daughter's old school had dozens of van drivers and not a single one could communicate with a child who didn't speak and hear. It pissed me off.

GrendelQ

yeah, but what kid wants to talk with some old busdriver when there are Cool Big Girls to sign with? Turns out the driver chats with an adult who rides along to monitor her daughter's feeding tube while the 3 girls sign for 2 hours! Great learning opp-- can't beat peer influence!

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Jiro

precisely why I support your stance much more than FJ's.

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faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

and what "stance" would that be? I'm against mainstreaming, especially without accomidations.

Jiro

let me reword it - I am in agreement with Grendel's reasoning.

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faire_jour

Wirelessly posted

and i agree. I have never understood why a person would want their deaf child mainstreamed if there was another (appropriate) option! Of course i would rather have a teacher of the deaf teaching her in a group of 4 (and in her school, a "large group" setting is still about 10) with the finest professionals rather than a burnt out mainstream teacher with 32 (ah, the joy of utah) that has never met a deaf child in their life.

but, again, i suppose we are in the minority.

deafbajagal

32!!!! Wow....I sorry for any kid in that class. Too many!!!

rick48

Thanks for the insight I do not think any of the ci users or the parents of ci kids were aware of that. The doctors told us it was magically inserted.
Rick

rick48

All valid points Cloggy but as you said tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

BTW did you ever get an explanation as to why your thread was removed?

Rick

rick48

Daredevil,

I admire and appreciate that you are always civil and have a great sense of humor but I disagree with you on this. Do not believe that FJ was in any sense implying that one hears perfectly by using the term "hear".

BTW you are way too young for tv antennas or rabbit ears as my grandmother called them.
Rick

Daredevel7

Yes, I agree that she did not mean to imply, which is why I pointed it out. Trying to show why, while still technically correct, it isn't all that great to hear (har har) "Deaf people CAN hear."

Beowulf

You have my sympathy for believing them.

Jazzberry

I agree its misleading. Even though I don't have a CI, I sometimes get asked about them by hearing people. (It's possible that some of them are hinting they think I should get one. ).

When I answer their questions and explain that:

* In many cases a CI "makes a deaf person hard of hearing."*


* BUT, it's a complete crapshoot as to how hard of hearing they will be.

** Ideally they may be one of the "lucky ones" and be able to have a telephone conversation if the telephones on both ends of the call are very good quality and be able to understand many people with just a little lip reading in a quiet room..

** They may be really lucky and even hear a little bit better that that

** A lot of people will simply just hear more environmental sounds and have an eaiser time not getting hit by a car or skate boarder. They will have an easier time lipreading after their CI operation than they did before their operation.

** And some people may end up losing what little hearing they had and being worse off after the operation.

* It's a gamble and there are possible side effects also -- loss of taste or facial paralysis, for example. Rare, but it does occur. (And since I've joined the list I learned I can add infections and dizziness to the rare possible side effects also.)

* Not everyone is a candidate for the surgery, even if they don't have enough hearing to use the telephone.

The usual response I get is surprise. Most hearing people that ask me about CIs at first think its a "miracle cure", that it can make anyone who is deaf fully hearing and will work for everyone. That is not a helpful illusion to have out there in the world.

I think its worth it to take the time not to spread misinformation.

Is it so much more difficult to say --

The CI makes my daughter hard of hearing vs
The CI makes my daughter hearing?

or

The CI makes me hard of hearing vs
The CI makes me hearing?


The first sentence is true (assuming the operation went well), and helps people understand what the reality is with very few words. The second sentence is not and just spreads misinformation -- IMHO.



* Truthfully, I kind of cringe on the inside when I give that answer -- but most people don't have the patience for long answers.

deafbajagal

I agree.

deafbajagal

[QUOTE=faire_jour;1913833]Wirelessly posted



i can respectfully disagree with you on what percentage of deaf kids can understand spoken language. i tend to see the successful ones because of the programs i have chosen for my child, i admit that.

the only reason i said what i said was because the person i was responding to had JUST claimed it wasn't possible. I was reacting.
i never ever claimed that they hears like hearing kids, and i never claimed it was all. I know that kids with CIs need accomidations. They will never have typical hearing no matter how well they do with it. That is why i am not an advocate for mainstreaming ESPECIALLY without real accomidations.[/QUOTE

Whew! Im glad you pointed out these things. Kids with CIs will never have typical, normal hearing...they may come close. They often do need accommodations. I agree that most mainstreamed programs are not suitable, thus being assertive about finding the best possible school is definitely a good thing.

deafdyke

And in addition, the tester tends to have VERY good speech. People who work and interact with dhh people tend to subconsciously modify their speech patterns so it's easier for them to understand the speaker. However, the average person does not tend to have easy to understand speech, and in fact needs to be taught how to interact with dhh people. Heck I remember back at college, it would take a while for my friends to go back to their "so deafdyke can understand" speech, when we got back from vacations and when I first met them.
Heck even on the CID site, there's something that says that implanted kids do best one on one in perfect listening conditions. But what audis/oral/mainstream advocates don't understand is that the world is not a soundbooth with perfect listening conditions. That is why deaf kids, even oral sucesses can strongly benifit from ASL.

rebeccalj

Too funny!!

rebeccalj

It should never have been termed HoH in the first place. More like a little deaf.

rebeccalj

Apparently a whole heck of a lot more.

deafdyke

Um Cloggy, We are not talking about the Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's/Mystic Oral School/fill in the blank with whatever famous oral school, kids from the 50's who could hear 40% with a body worn hearing aid, and who still had severe spoken language issues. CI kids are functionally hoh, on a par with deaf and hoh kids.....and even with that there are still quite a few deaf people who are functionally hoh even with aids!

Cloggy

The second sentence is what some people THINK that parents of children with CI say.. In reality, parents of children with CI will not say that..
For myself. The sentence "My daughter was born deaf, now she can hear." says it all..
Because.. You can hear when you are "hard of hearing".

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