JennyB

After some hearing problems I had another audiogram today. Here are the results...

Freq L R
250Hz 100 100
500Hz 105 115
750Hz 115 NR

Everything else is NR.

If there was ever any doubt that I am profoundly Deaf...

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

Deafness

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Bottesini

Nah, just ask one of our more famous members. Just a few tweaks of the transpositional element by your audi, and you will be all set.

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It's a joke Nathan!

JennyB

Transposition is on full - no help there. I guess stemcells is clearly the answer. Better buy my plane ticket to china and book a cage next to the test monkey.

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

Bottesini

Good girl! I think you have got it!!

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It's a joke Nathan!

souggy

And bwe served a bowlful of lead-filled rice everyday while you're in ICU!

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Warning! Contains skewed comments & inane ramblings. May cause spontaneous human combustion

TheWriteAlex

Hahaha, you two are funny, but be nice!

BTW, Jenny, what is your audiogram with aids?

Bottesini

We are always nice, Professor. We are very gentle people.

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It's a joke Nathan!

Pinky

LoL! You guys are funny!

Jenny, Wow! You can hearing more than my hearing loss worst. Mine is 120db. I've had 115 db when I was 18 and 22 years old. My hearing is getting worse lost about 5 db. That is why I can't get benefit for new hearing aids. My previous HA was 60% to 65%. My left CI is 30db now. How about your HA's db when you took the hearing test?

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TheWriteAlex

but of course!

deafdude1

Did you notice your hearing getting worse yet again? What kind of hearing problems were you having? As for your thresholds in the lows, did you feel vibrations at anytime, especially at 115db? How are you hearing with the L HA and especially with the R HA?

Ive been reading alot about cochlear dead regions and that the OHC account for 60db of hearing and IHC accounts for another 30db of hearing. Has any conductive component to your loss been suspected? Did you ever respond to a bone conduction test several years ago before your loss progressed? Id like to be tested for dead regions and to get some questions answered, such as how people like me can have more than 90db loss and still hear sounds at the correct pitch. I have a HL of at least 110db at 1000Hz and when I repeat that tone to my dad, he confirms that it sounds the same to him too. I also can tell the pitch differences to around 1200Hz, above that the pitch sounds much the same or I simply hear a low frequency buzz or nothing at all. What's it like for you?

Didn't you say it was helping you just last month when you had a bit of hearing at 1000Hz? Transposition is no help for me either, the cutoff is 1500Hz

TheWriteAlex

Jenny does not have an aided audiogram, but she mentioned she can't have her HA gains maxed cause her brain can't handle more sounds. What's your unaided and aided audiogram, thewritealex? Mine are all here:

A deaf dude's life: All my audiograms thus far with my comments on them!

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TheWriteAlex

DD, I don't have any electronic audiograms, but here's the numbers. This is from a year ago. I suspect I've lost some hearing since. This is unaided. I don't have an audiogram with the Naidas yet, but I am going in on Nov. 2nd for an extensive aided/unaided audiogram and tuning. I'll report the aided scores.

250hz: 15db
500hz: 35db
750hz: 55db
1000hz:90db
1500hz and above: 110db

You seem to have had good good luck in programing your Naidas. What was it that you changed from the program that the computer automatically fits?

I may want to turn off the gain 250-500hz, and only boost 750+ and see what happens...

AliciaM

15dB isn't a loss 35dB is a bit below normal and 55 is mild-moderate and then profound...weird also surprised that u are doing an aided audiogram..usually those are only done with CI evaluations

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Alicia
Phonak versatas
Severe loss
deaf

Ears are cheap. It's what's between the ears that counts

TheWriteAlex

I don't mean to sound crabby, Alicia, but I'm well aware of what levels constitute a loss and to what degree. But just to be clear, 55 is on the high end of moderate, not mild-moderate.

As I mentioned on your thread, I haven't met many people with my type of loss. It's hard to fit with a hearing aid, and it can be very frustrating in real life. Somebody can be talking to me and I hear their voice at a normal level but cannot understand a word of what they're saying, even if I'm speechreading. If I'm not speechreading, I cannot understand anything, at all, in any situation.

I requested the aided audiogram because I wanted to see how I am actually benefiting from the aids in terms of numbers. I am also going to take a proactive role in programming the aid. I'm tired of audis listening to my concerns, making a little adjustment on the computer without telling me what it is, and then saying, "Here, try this." I feel like at this point, I know just as much about sound frequency as them, and I know my own body much better than them, so why shouldn't I have a role in deciding what to change or not?

The audis have mentioned CIs to me, but I don't think I'm a candidate, especially with the normal hearing at lower frequencies.

deafdude1

You have cochlear dead zones, ill discuss this here:

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-...ead-spots.html

I had the gain in the lows maxed out and I was able to hear more sounds and speech. I probably hear aided similar to what you hear unaided, but of course with more distortion than you.

Your HAs have a fitting range that starts at 40db in the lows so I am surprised your audiologist sold you those HAs. Are you able to hear any internal white noise with those HAs in a quiet room?

Do your molds have any vents? Discuss with different audiologists if a vent may help. I read that it would reduce occulsion and roll off the lows, of which you don't need to max the gains anyway.

You have a less common audiogram where your loss slopes precipitously. I read around and most people with your audiogram get little or no improvement with HAs. The problem seems to be that HAs can't be programmed for such a steep audiogram and also they have a huge cochlear dead region.

How often do you wear HAs and how much do they help with speech? Making sounds louder? Ive read that people with your audiogram are able to understand about 50% speech in quiet and of course much less in noise. Is there anyone or any situation where you can understand some speech without lipreading? I can understand about half of what my dad says without lipreading, but with other people, it's much less. With lipreading, it's 80% for anyone who speaks clearly.

I took an active role in having my own HAs programmed. If your audiologist won't cooperate, id buy HAs from America Hears where you can program the HAs yourself. Your HL is in the fitting range out to a little past 750Hz. Anything above won't matter as your cochlea is dead. Id try having your HAs programmed for no gain and minimum SPL above 1500Hz, then no gain above 1000Hz, then no gain above 750Hz and compare the difference. You may find that you hear clearer when not trying to amplify well into a cochlea dead zone.

One of my audies mentioned CI to me but he changed his mind saying he wouldn't recommend a CI for me as there was no guarantee ill hear better and that id forfiet my residual hearing and can never go back to HAs. CI is great for those who can't hear, not even with HAs. Your hearing is way better than mine.

You have cochlear dead zones, ill discuss this in further detail here:

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-...ead-spots.html

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ecp

One thing- yes OHCs contribute ~60dB but you can't just add the 60dB of OHC and 30dB of IHC because inner hair cells transmit sound to the auditory cortex. In people with profound hearing loss Outer and Inner hair cells are damaged.

Here is an illustration I just mashed together:
The complete journey sound takes is this-
1. From outer ear to eardrum
2. Eardrum vibrates and makes the middle ear bones vibrate
3. The vibration of the middle ear bones pushes against an opening in the cochlea which causes a fluid wave
4. The fluid wave in the cochlea stimulates the hair cells
5. Outer hair cells act as amplifiers and distinguish frequency
6. Inner hair cells connect the outer hair cells to the auditory nerve
7. the auditory nerve connects to the brain

Step 6 is the answer to deafdude's question about why people can have thresholds above 90dB. If the connection first part of the connection to the brain (inner hair cells) doesn't work, the signal never reaches the brain. And even if some sound reaches the brain, it is very degraded sound which explains why profoundly deaf people have poor speech recognition.

This also explains how cochlear implants work. The electrode of the CI sits where the inner hair cells should be and provides a stimulus to the auditory nerve.

Untitled-1.jpg

TheWriteAlex

Yes, I hear it a lot, but it's not a problem.

Yes, I have large vents, and they help a lot. The mold is also trimmed down a bit, which helps. Actually, I do not sound plugged up at all. Audi did a great job with that. These have been more or less the most "comfortable" aids I've ever worn, with maybe the exception of the Widex Senso.


Indeed, there is little middle ground to work with. I go from normal hearing to profoundly deaf very rapidly. It can be quite frustrating. The aids do help in certain situations, but not much. Still, I feel it's better than without. One of the big reasons I use them is for the visibility. I WANT people to see my aids and know that I can't hear them. If I didn't, a lot of people would think I am ignoring them, or that I'm stupid or on drugs. The FM system and Bluetooth gadgetry is also useful. Also, they help a bit for listening to music.


I wear them whenever I am out in the hearing world, which is most of the time. I take them off at home. They help with speech a little, but only in certain situations. I understand far less than 50% of speech, even in quiet environments, if I can't see someone's face. Aids make no difference in that case. If I can see the person's face, however, and it's a quiet environment, I can understand almost everything. In a loud environment, I am pretty much deaf as far as being able to decipher speech, with or without aids and speechreading. At the same time, I am able to understand my mother on the phone because I am so used to her voice and all her mannerisms. I can tell what she is saying even if I can't hear her. Same with my twin brother, who has the same loss as mine (he does not wear aids).


Yep, I'm pretty sure of that too. Does this mean that a CI cannot stimulate sound in that region of the cochlea?

CJB

? You? Nawww.

JennyB

I just lost all ability to understand speech slowly over the 2 weeks before the test.

Of course I have had a tactile response. I know the difference between tactile and hearing though.

I am hearing, but not understanding. It's just noise.


I have a mixed loss. My eardrums are a nice little mass of scar tissue. I respond on bone conducted tests because I bypass the eardrums.


I can understand pitch tactically. I have some auditory understanding of pitch as well.



My hearing fluctuates. Sometimes I can hear at 1500hz. Yesterdays test was the worse it has been ever.

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

JennyB

Hehehe.

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

DeafDoc1

JennyB, sorry you've lost that speech perception. That was really exciting when you posted it.

My audiogram last November was very similar to this. I haven't gone back for another yet. I've found my Naidas are less and less useful, and they now spend equal time in my ears and on my dresser. Have you found this too?

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What's up, Doc?

JennyB

These days they maybe get 3-6 hours of use a week at best. That is often the case during the academic year though. I have interpreters for everything, my work is an ASL environment...I don't really need to hear. During the summer I use them more though.

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

ecp

I'm currently trying out a Naida and a Starkey destiny (one in each ear). I really love the Naida but it isn't loud enough.
It does really suck to loose the ability to understand speech.
My hearing loss is progressive. One year I went from being "sorta deaf" to Profoundly deaf. That was a shock.

I also had a new audiogram recently. Still severe to profound but the high frequencies have disappeared. And speech understanding went waaay down. This time is easier. I have an interpreter for classes which makes life easier. Hopefully VocRehab will keep their promise to pay for new hearing aids so that I can go to medical school and be an awesome doctor.

[PS JennyB- I can get you some embryonic stem cells. They are from a mouse but I'm sure you would be "cured" if you injected those suckers. And transposition could work too! Shift all the sound to 500hZ and try to understand sound. That has to work. Forget about temporal and tonotopic processing. Transposition to the rescue!]<----sarcasm with love!

deafdude1

This article may be of interest: http://www.etymotic.com/publications/erl-0043-2000.pdf

If I understand the article, IHC's contribute to sound differently than OHC's.
For an 85db HL, the article explains 40% of the IHCs are missing. Would it appear like this:

OXOOXXOOXOXOOXO

X= missing IHC. This would be seen as intermittant cochlear dead regions.

Have you seen my thread on cochlear dead regions yet? I have a good reply there. Don't worry about others, I never had people rude like that to me. I just say I am hearing impaired and they understand. No one can tell me to wear HAs or not, it's my choice how often I want to wear HAs.

How did you score on any speech tests you got at the audiologist, even a SRT test using spondee words? Perhaps reprogramming your HAs not to amplify well into your cochlear dead zones will really improve your speech. Again, see that thread for more info:

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-...ead-spots.html

A CI does not care how much or little residual hearing you have, it destroys all natural hearing then stimulates your auditory nerves with electrical pulses. You can have cochlear dead zones with CI if some electrodes malfunction or if your auditory nerve is damaged in some frequencies. The CI can be mapped to transport sounds around the dead zones.

Did you respond(other than vibrotactile) to the bone conduction test? Were you able to respond at anytime in the past when you had more hearing? How much of a conductive loss is your eardrums causing? Any possibility for a tactaid?

I find the Naida adequately loud with the gains turned to the max in the frequencies I can still hear. The low frequencies give the loudness, aren't you at 90db HL in the lows? Were you born hearing? What caused the progressive hearing loss? How much speech do you understand today?

Can you scan it and show us or just type it here? My audiograms are in my blog. I lost my highs sometime after age 16. I read your older posts and you mention CI from time to time. Any interest in CI now? When you lose all your hearing? Never want a CI? Good luck on being a doctor, I used to want to be a doctor myself!

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TheWriteAlex

Oh people aren't rude once I explain to them. But the thing is, I hate explaining, especially if it's some meaningless interaction at the store or something. Every time I do, it's like I have to admit that I am defective, like I am apologizing for who I am. F--- that. They can see my aids and make their own conclusion, but I'm sick of demoralizing myself. If it's someone that I am developing a relationship with, then of course I will talk to them about it. But for just everyday interactions? Hell no. Not telling them the specifics of my loss is how I keep myself on an even power level with hearing people. It is how I empower myself.

Just looked at my year old audiogram. My SRT scores: 40 in right. 30 in left. My WRS: 4% in right, 8% in left at 95db

Funny, cause that seems to me worse than a lot of "deaf" people on this forum, and yet because of my normal hearing in the lower frequencies, I don't think many people would actually consider me deaf.

I'm having a new audiogram on Monday. I will talk to the audie about not bothering to boost the dead regions. Makes sense to me.


You know, people, some of us give DD a lot of heat for his constant clucking and pontificating about HAs and stem cells, but he is quite knowledgeable on some matters, and he only means well. I've never seen him say anything mean or nasty (of course, I could have missed something), even when abuse gets hurled at him. I for one appreciate the information he provides. Thanks, DD.

deafdude1

Id try a HINT-Q speech test. Your SRT test appears fine. At 30-40db, you are basically able to understand words using your 500Hz and below hearing which is impressive. I can understand alot of numbers and some sentences my dad says with my HAs. I get a "CNE" on the SRT as I can't understand enough spondee words even at 105db. My 1998 audiogram has a note that numbers were used for my SRT of 95db as I wasn't understanding enough words.

Let's see how you do on a HINT-Q speech test both unaided and aided. After your HAs are reprogrammed, have another test and see how much your speech improved. I am reading on hearing loss to speech score correlation. In your case, you are basically hearing the same as testing hearing people on a low pass speech filter. If I remember correctly, at 500Hz low pass, hearing people were able to score 30% speech. Those with a severe hearing loss, when aided could score much higher since their HAs got the low frequencies to near normal but they had the benefit of being able to hear mid and high frequencies too. Youd of course hear way better unaided than any deaf person.

Have you taken the piano thud test that I linked you to in the cochlear dead region thread? That information will help the audiologist to try different program settings on your HAs. You may find that not amplifying above 1000Hz could cut down on the distortion.

Edit: see if you can get an aided audiogram in the soundfield. It's possible your HAs aren't giving enough gain at 500Hz, 750Hz and 1000Hz. I was looking at lowpass filtered speech samples and hearing people who have speech filtered to 800Hz were scoring better than those with CI! I will do more research on this. It also showed that at 400Hz, speech dropped by a factor of 6 vs. 800Hz! I know someone who has near normal hearing to 750Hz and he impresses the audiologists and everyone by how well he understands speech unaided. HAs give very little improvement as his audiogram quickly slopes to nothing above 750Hz. Even at 1000Hz, his hearing is already quite poor, I think 70-80db HL.

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JennyB

Yes I have heard on bone conduction tests in the past. My ear drums cause about an extra 20dB of loss. Would I benefit from a tactaid - do you actually mean a tactaid where you feel vibrations on your wrist or chest? Or do you mean bone conduction? I wouldn't benefit from bone conduction aids, no.

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Jenny~B
http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

deafdude1

TheWriteAlex, see my reply to you above. Also let us know how you do on the piano thud test.


I was thinking vibrating HAs where there's a vibrator in the earmold that would let you hear 20db better as itll bypass the conductive component. Itll be like that device your audiologist uses to perform bone conduction tests but more powerful. Those HAs also would blast out sounds in addition to vibrations and be great for mixed losses. I don't mean BAHA, but wonder if those would work as well? As for an aid on your wrist or chest, can a tactaid be placed on/in the ear instead?

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