jillio

Quite true, C-NICE.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

deafdude1

The adults who are getting stem cells for deafness and other diseases are getting cord blood stem cells and it's working. You need cord blood that's a close match to your own that your body can accept. If the cells gets rejected, itll simply be expelled from your body as waste.

Let's see how the clinical trial for cord blood stem cells goes for all those children under 18 months using their own cord blood! Not just deafness but all other diseases can be treated. I would risk cord blood stem cells today over a CI, that's how much I support stem cells and from what I read, I honestly believe stem cells is less risky anyway! Once the pioneers get stem cells for their deafness/hearing loss and I see results, I am next.

__________________

jillio

Provided it becomes available during your lifetime. Quite possible to die waiting.

neuro

curiosity: in China, at least Beik, it is always with stem cells from the cord blood ??

neuro

source: Beike Europe - FAQ

"Well, back to the treatment: is there any side effect?

Little or no side effects. Some patients will experience a headache, some nausea, mild fever and excessive urination after their first spinal cord injection of stem cells. These symptoms usually last 48 to 72 hours and can be easily managed. Furthermore, such symptoms do not occur when stem cells are transplanted using an IV (intravenous).


And what about a possible rejection?

No rejection either. Shenzhen Beike Biotechnologies treats patient with stem cells isolated from the umbilical cord blood, and a treatment in this format carries no associated risks. Cord blood has a muted immune system, consequently stem cells are not yet educated to attack the recipient. Another important issue: in front of very little or no immune reactions in the recipients, immune suppressants are not needed and this is good, since immune suppressants can be toxic to neurons.


I heard about GVHD, a potentially fatal rejection case.

Yes, in front of a GVHD (Graft Versus Host Disease) case the risk of death do exists. Anyway, let us point out two very important things: first, GVHD is very rare; second, GVHD strikes within the frame of fetal and/or adult stem cells transplants – nothing to do with Beike’s undifferentiated umbilical cord blood stem cells: these cells proved themselves to be not only the most versatile and powerful, but also the safest. That’s why Beike chose to focus on them.


Did you ever loose a patient following a GVHD case?

Since 2001 we have treated nearly five thousand people -both chinese and westerners- and not a single patient lost his life. Sorry for repeating, but the “worst” rejections we saw consisted in some fever lines and a general sensation of being wrecked: and it’s just a possibility, not a certainty.


What can you tell me about safety? Are your cells absolutely healthy?

The Government of People’s Republic of China has implemented the same standards of the American Association of Blood Banks (AABB) for testing the blood from the placenta and umbilical cord to ensure the highest levels of protection form communicable diseases. There’s more: when stem cells reach Beike’s laboratory they undergo a second test, before being put in a culture medium to proliferate, in conditions of absolute safety and sterility. Shenzhen Beike Biotechnologies issues, for every performed test, a certificate guaranteeing that the stem cells are disease free. Our laboratories have the finest equipment available to control the screening quality.


What does Beike guarantee to me?

First of all, the highest level of safety; then, the highest number of cells at the least cost, a truly huge quantity, i.e. between ten and fifteen million umbilical cord stem cells in a single injection. A certificate from the lab will be provided, clearly indicating such a quantity. In other words, during the treatment the patient will receive between forty and sixty million cells. Shenzhen Beike Biotechnologies guarantees that in front of such a quantity, its price is the least expensive in the world".

ref74

Come on Neuro!!! The FAQs of a chinese private company applying stem cells to humans!!
It's like posting what Cochlear Corp. says about the benefit of CI!!!

The title of the discussion is "INFORMATION FROM SCIENTIFIC SOURCE". If you like to read those people because it increases your expectations and you feel more happy, I am happy too. But if these guys are so good in teelling us how these things work, why the hell there is no trace of them in the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE?!? They would have all the benefit in publishing their astonishing results.
If you have a look to the first post, you will notice that it seems like the most advanced official studies say we are pretty far away and there are several things to understand and several risks to evaluate...

jillio

thank you!

deafdude1

Exactly. If the CI companies are allowed to "hype" CI, then it's only fair that the stem cell companies hype stem cells. There is alot of news about stem cells, in fact clinical trials for babies has already begun! America is just behind with stem cells so we are seeing other countries offer stem cells. I am waiting for the pioneers to get stem cells for hearing loss/deafness and id like to see their results/audiograms/testimonals then im next. We are not "pretty far" it's here today if you travel overseas! I know there's some risks and that's why I am waiting for the pioneers to be the guina pigs. But ill say that if I was "forced" to choose between CI or stem cells today, ill go with stem cells.

__________________

neuro

FAQ: Stem Cells General Questions http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/22375/ste...20china%20.pdf

deafdyke

So what's the difference between the CI company hype and the stem cell company hype? What makes stem cell hype more "legit" then CI hype?

C-NICE

CI's however effective of ineffective people may claim they are they have a near 30 year track record so you know what you are getting!!

deafdude1

Because stem cells will give the best hearing, way better than CI for less cost and risk. See my blog, link in sig of all the advantages of stem cells vs. CI.

Stem cells will move ahead at lighting speed and once there's proof of it giving better hearing than CI, no one will want CI. Youll understand by viewing my blog, link in sig.

__________________

Watermelon

Sorry, I can't agree to that position just yet. If you had said "may" instead of "will", then I'd be more inclined to agree with that position. It would be great if it does, but until we understand more and have more clinical trial results and write ups on stem cell restoring hearing, we can't say that with absolute certainty. Until then, it's hype since it's counting the eggs before they hatch. However, I do understand your viewpoints on how stem cells may be better. I would like to wish success to the stem cell research.

AlleyCat

Same here. I'm extremely optimistic. But I don't know what to think. I researched CI's last year and my whole family went with me to an initial CI audi appt. It was determined I likely wouldn't benefit any further with a CI than what I get with my HAs, so I opted not to get a CI. (I've discussed this elsewhere.) So while I may have put CIs on the back burner for now, I haven't ruled it out entirely, nor other options, such as stem cells or other advanced technology.

ref74

Stem cell will hopefully give the best hearing. Better, in principle stem cells should be able to give.
Premises are excellent, but no single PROOF of success. I am talking about scientific proof.

As for costs and risk, this is pure speculation. You do not have any idea of the costs, no standard therapy does exist, nothing to base this on. The risks are not evaluated yet. In principle they are VERY RELEVANT. Scioentific papers talk about tumors. TUMORS vs facial paralysis/device malfunction. What's worse?
Remember we are still discussing in theory. Stem cells are not here yet, besides the claims of somebody.

This is probably true, but it will depend on some key steps of the research. There are some major points to be overcome, if they will find the solution for them shortly, we can see this magic therapy come true.
Sure after that, HAs and CIs will soon become a niche. the quastion is "when?".

deafdude1

It's a question of when, not if. It's possible the pioneers that get stem cells, some might come close to what CI gives but not quite match it. As stem cell technology rapidly matures and everyone gets down to 80db HL or better, they will be hearing with HAs way better than CI. Not only that, theres so many other advantages including cost and less risk. Give stem cells a few more years to advance and we will all see the hype justified

This is why I stand by the cutoff of 100db for CI. You would be "borderline" for CI. I read your thread here and you are still getting alot of benefit from HAs. You were told that you could get 30-40db across. This is average and realistic for CI. Not everyone gets 20db with CI like Faire Jour likes to think. But even she didn't recommend CI for you! I used to hear at 100db back in 1998 and was aided to 35db which is as good as CI anyway. I would still achieve a quality boost with CI but not hear at better thresholds. I am waiting for stem cells which can improve me across the board and provide numerous advantages over CI. No the wait won't take 15 years, more like 3-5 years because I am getting stem cells experimentally and am just waiting to see results of the pioneers who go before me. I discussed this with my parents and they are excited for me.

My chances with stem cells is way better than CI. A 20db improvement with stem cells of course will give me much better hearing. With CI, I lose my residual hearing and have no idea how much, if any improvement ill get, but can never go back to HAs and I won't be able to get stem cells in the implanted ear.

Looking at websites of Chinese stem cell labs, they treat a wide variety of conditions for less than $30,000. I could treat both ears for under $30,000 which is half the cost of a CI for one ear! As to the risks, ive read stem cell blogs of others getting it for life saving conditions as well as diabetes, blindness, autism, MS and no one's ever died or experienced a major complication. One Chinese website has treated over 5000 people with stem cells without serious complications, including tumors. This is a better safety record than CI.

This is why I am going to wait 3-5 years more. Stem cells is based on science, not magic! CIs will be old news almost overnight. HAs will continue to be widely used because those with mild losses won't be candidates for stem cells and most with moderate losses already hear great with HAs and aren't going to spend the money for 10db improvement. It's those with severe-profound losses like me who could improve down to a moderate loss.

__________________

neuro

"The current stem cell therapy for nerve deafness has also belong to the individual cases of clinical stage, although the clinical result can be seen that some patients return to normal or improved. But still lack sufficient evidence to show that the drug caused damage to the auditory nerve and effective.
从患者的角度而言,如果在经济适合的情况下接受临床证明安全的干细胞治疗是可行的,也有恢复的 希望. From the patient's point of view, if the appropriate circumstances in the economy to prove the safety of clinical stem cell therapy is feasible, but also to restore hope".
source: Google Traductor
I found messages on forums treatment of deafness in a Chinese website, and I found through Blog deafdude! A deaf dude's life: Stem cells is superior to cochlear implants. Well worth the wait!

deafdyke

Ummm, you're buying into the hype. The possibilties are STILL very out there. You don't understand that youre buying into the PR hype, which is NOT based on science. Its almost like.....claiming that alternative medicene is better then teh EVIL Western medicence.
Actually what you are doing is equaliavant to buying into the "results" that Mexican cancer clinics get or that "cancer" diet that was in Death Be Not Proud.

deafdyke

You have to be VERY careful about buying into the stem cell hype. It's intreging...........BUT, the reason I keep saying " be cautious" is b/c I lurk on a site called New Mobilty for wheelchair users. This place has a HUGE pop of spinal cord injuiry folks. Some of them have gone to China for treatment and have recieved rather minimal help. It's too soon to tell if stem cells are gonna be the "magic bullet" for ANYTHING!

deafdude1

Phi4sius will be showing the audiogram of this guy who improved 25db so stem cells are a reality. I know CI is a reality but many people do fine with the right HAs anyway. With stem cells, you can keep wearing HAs and hear better than before.

Minimal help is better than nothing! Right now stem cells gives "rather minimal" help for hearing loss but one guy still got a 25db improvement, Phi4sius will prove it once he can get his audiograms. You are right that it's too soon to tell, that's why I am waiting a few years. I still think a 20-40db improvement in my hearing is in the bag a few years from now. I consider this more than "minimal" help. I am being realistic about stem cells. Will it cure my deafness? It's too soon to tell as you said! But will it give me "rather minimal" improvement and make me less deaf? Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________

faire_jour

Will, will, will, will, will.....

You HOPE. You have ZERO proof, and really high expectations. Why would you jump into something that is in no way proven safe or effective? And that is assuming that it ever does actually happen!

AlleyCat

I will say one thing about high expectations. Regardless of whether stem cells or other forms of technology become available (and I really hope they do), some of us are really wishing for this, and high expectations come as a result. I may not be sure that any of this is realistic, but I have said how much I would love to be hearing, so I can understand other's high hopes as well.

ref74

Hopes and expectation are quite understandable. All of us hope stem cells or any other thing could come right now and finally give a cure without risks and side-effects.
Unfortunately life is much much more complicated than dreams. Stem cells will come, they will be a step forward, but they will carry their own limitations, associated risks, failure rate, etc. They will follow some progress in the years and hopefully they will be the promised land of hearing restoring. Hopefully.
The question still remain unanswered is "when?".

deafdude1

It's realistic to expect an easy 20db improvement in your unaided hearing. I honestly don't expect a complete restoration anytime soon till stem cell technology becomes mature. In the near future, people like me will travel to another country to get stem cells experimentally and get our 20db, even 40db improvement and be less deaf or HOH. Then when stem cells mature, we will get it again in our own country and have our hearing improved to the point we don't need HAs anymore.

The question of when can be answered: Today a few dozen people worldwide have gotten stem cells for hearing loss but a few thousand have gotten stem cells for much more serious conditions. Those with hearing loss don't need to be in any hurry and just like me, they are waiting for stem cell technology to develop/evolve. I give it anywhere from 2 to 5 years before I go ahead with stem cells for hearing loss to get a partial improvement(20-40db better hearing). This timeframe would depend on how many others go ahead before me and how good their results are. For a complete restoration(25db HL or better), I give it anywhere from 10 to 20 years. That's what others are projecting as well. They are thinking of a full restoration when stem cells is mentioned. I am fine with a partial restoration as I can always get a full restoration years later.

__________________

ref74

Really?!?!?
Are you sure of that?!?

neuro

example: in this Chinese website in the forum there are several reviews of treatments for the deaf
Google Traductor

source: RNID.org.uk: Community: Forums: Tinnitus forum: Two Stem Cell Articles

ref74

Guys, I can create tens of websites with any kind of things written on them. Can I expect people would believe?
How can you be sure with information taken from websites you need google translation to understand!?!?
My impression is you believe to these info because you like what you read. How can you believe to that and do not give any credit to scientific information telling the contrary?!?
I am really out of words...

john57

cPanel While it is great to have high hopes there are also setbacks. The latest news I just read states http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/he...ch/09drug.html

What is interesting about this study was that the placebo effect was throwing the positive results of the stem drug off. However the drug did seems to help a much smaller subset of patients however the FDA states that the drug is a failure in the two clinical trials results. This in turn caused the stock price of Osiris Therapeutics to drop. In all my years medical technology always have been frustrating slow.

An there is hope from another source for stem cells from Liposuction leftovers
Liposuction leftovers make easy stem cells: study | Science | Reuters

neuro

I do not know if you've reported on influenza vaccine, for example want to mass vaccinate many people without even having gone through the pilot phase. Yesterday I heard they plan to do experimental tests with a group of children in Spain Los ensayos de la vacuna en España empezarán en 15 días y son «seguros» - Sociedad_Sanidad - Sociedad - ABC.es. We do not know the risks, but it is urgent to control the pandemic. What do you think? Do not you think it is wrong to vaccinate millions of people without formal experimental controls?

neuro

but continue to investigate, they will not stop more being a multinational, draw anything, if something fails go to the other ...