souggy

Au revoir! Have fun with rehabs and therapies! (And quite possibly trips to the mental ward if you can't handle the sensory inputs from the new stereocilia.)

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Deafness

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neuro

DRF 2009-2010 Grant Recipients Announced

Hearing Health Magazine

neuro

Gene therapy for connexin 26

Scientist Solutions - Gene therapy for connexin 26

neuro

hi!.
I have commented by email that the treatment for deafness in Beike stem cells in the auditory nerve does not in the hair cells in the cochlea. Therefore not yet addressed in the hearing cells or ciliary regeneration in the cochlea. Currently they seek the auditory nerve, but not if the damage is in the cochlea.

deafdude1

I don't understand what you mean, but todays stem cells is able to regrow at least a few hundred hair cells. It improved the hearing of this 4 year old who had SNHL. Stem cells will improve my own SNHL due to me missing most of my hair cells.

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neuro

hi.
I have this doubt and hope that progress also in the hair cells.
Beike has informed me that the only cure auditory nerves, not the hair cells in the cochlea. Sensorineural deafness, if I mistake not, is in the hair cells and / or auditory nerve. Some people only have losses in having healthy hair cells or auditory nerve. Also people who have problems in the hair cells and auditory nerve. From what I Beike stem cells with enhanced auditory nerves, but not in hearing cells in the cochlea. Anyway you have to keep asking.

deafdude1

New Stem Cell Therapy May Lead To Treatment For Deafness

They were able to formulate conditions that allowed for the progressive differentiation into neurons and hair cells with the same functional electrophysiological characteristics as cells seen in vivo.

"The results are the first in vitro renewable stem cell system derived from the human auditory organ and have the potential for a variety of applications, such as studying the development of human cochlear neurons and hair cells, as models for drug screening and helping to develop cell-based therapies for deafness," say the authors.

My comments: Stem cells can regenerate both hair and nerve cells! Perhaps they meant that their stem cells can give more of an improvement for nerve than hair cells? The thing is most deaf people have SNHL which means damage to the hair cells. Those with damage to the auditory nerve would not get good results with CI anyway. For them, stem cells is the only choice if they want to hear speech/sounds.

Furthermore, stem cells gives an average of 20db improvement in hearing for most people who have been pioneers for stem cells. Most deaf people have a functioning auditory nerve so the 20db improvement in hearing must be comming from regenerating perhaps a thousand hair cells. Normal hearing is 15,000 hair cells. Stem cell studies on animals have proven that stem cells does regenerate hair cells!

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neuro

I agree with you, plus there are more studies on hair cell regeneration in the cochlea. Beike however informs me that only about auditory nerve. You can check by asking you if you want Beike on its website or by email to representatives of Beike. For example there is a question on the web Google Traductor

"Hello, you listen to the words of a normal nerve, the cochlea damaged stem cells are currently no treated, efficacy can not be predicted, please forgive me".

Anyway for example in Mexico (no details) refers to the hair cells, and there are many reports of possible treatments hair cells ... not lose hope.

neuro

Spanish:
"Método para la regeneración de neuritas a partir de neuronas adultas y envejecidas del
ganglio espiral, para la recuperación auditiva
Universidad española patenta un método para la regeneración de neuritas a partir de
neuronas adultas y envejecidas del ganglio espiral, que incluye tanto una disociación
mecánica como enzimática con tripsina a 37°C, la adhesión de los explantes a superficies
cargadas positivamente y un medio de cultivo acondicionado que incorpora suero de caballo,
L-glutamina, los suplementos B27 y N2 simultáneamente y el factor de crecimiento GAP-43.
La invención se puede aplicar en medicina regenerativa para solucionar problemas
relacionados con hipoacusias y diferentes sorderas neurosensoriales incluida la presbiacusia.
Solicitar información detallada de la patente a info@vitsalud.es"

google translation:

"Method for regeneration of neurites from neurons of adult and aged
spiral ganglion, auditory recovery
Spanish University patented a method for the regeneration of neurites from
adult and aged neurons of the spiral ganglion, which includes both a dissociation
mechanical and enzymatic trypsin at 37 ° C, adhesion to surfaces of explants
positively charged and conditioned culture medium incorporating horse serum,
L-glutamine, B27 and N2 supplements simultaneously and growth factor GAP-43.
The invention can be applied in regenerative medicine to solve problems
associated with sensorineural hearing loss including deafness and different presbycusis.
Ask for details of the patent info@vitsalud.es"

source: http://www.fivecproyectos.org/Gecobio/BVT_N29.pdf

souggy

Since you posted this bloody tadbit (in the above post) in response to my questioning whether or not Deaf culture is dying... and since experimental, non-approved, medical technology has nothing to do with the cultural shaping of things, I think it's more apt to state it here:

Okay, let say that people did figure out how to restore hearing. How are you planning to make it so that those adults can cope with the new sense of hearing? Will they even ever understand what those new sounds means?

Are their brain going to be able to handle the new sensory inputs? How much rehabs will they need? Will they go mentally insane once exposed to new stimuli?

What would be more devastating if the results are not yielded: restoring full hearing to someone that have a 30-80% speech score back to 100%, or reversing the process by destroying the stereocilia to total deafness if the person can't tolerate being fully-hearing?

These are questions that cannot be answered until it's too late. And frankly, I rather focus on the "now" than focus on what might happen a few years later.

It's nice you're looking for a cure, but you're not seeing the psychological and sociological side of things. All this means for now is that the elderly or those who lost their hearing post-lingually have something to look forward to.

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kokonut

Great stuff guys. Keep posting your findings. Someday, this'll benefit millions of people.

deafdude1

People did not figure out how to restore hearing yet stem cells today gives an average of 20db improvement in your hearing. I discussed this with my parents and they agree that when stem cells is able to give 30db average improvement for $30,000 it'll be worth it. I coped fine when I got new HAs and my brain took 2 months to get used to new sounds. Itll be the same story with stem cells.

People said the same for CIs but it's been shown most people are able to adjust fine to CIs, those who can't simply stop wearing their CI.

Stem cells does not make you hearing so it's a moot point. Someone with say 100db hearing loss could improve to 80db or even 70db after stem cells. You will be severely deaf instead of profoundly deaf. Itll be easier to adjust than with CI. If you can't adjust to hearing 20-30db louder, simply have the gain reduced by that much on your HAs. Youd still hear clearer at the same loudness after stem cells since an increase in IHC's means more speech information reaching your brain. Youd of course lose alot of speech with less gains(at 30db HL, you lose 25% speech) but still be better off than before stem cells.

It won't be too late, what's the worry? I explained above.

Id like to be fully hearing but that's not realistic, not for at least 15 years anyway. But even with a 30db improvement which stem cells should give me 3 years from now, ill hear so much better. For those who are or become profoundly deaf, a 30db improvement will let HAs give you more sounds/speech than CIs for less cost and risk. I don't want surgery nor have a foreign object in my head nor risk losing my residual hearing. I don't understand what you guys find unappealing about stem cells? You don't want to be hearing? Stem cells won't cure your deafness, just make you less deaf so you get to hear with HAs better than CI!

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OneSided

Hi Guys and Gyals,
This is my first post im 22 years old and a few months back (feb) I became profoundly deaf in my right ear as in I can’t hear nothing but Tinnitus. My left hear is normal unaided. Obviously I have been adjusting I face ppl with my head slightly turned, unless they have a clear or deep voice etc.

I would really like stem cell treatment, I refuse CI as they permanently damage nerve cells.. and will not be as effective as stem cells will be. I live in London, UK and I am familiar with Dr Marcelo Rivolta in Sheffield, UK. But I must confess I am excited as well as cautious with this thread especially about Biotec in China.

So to get to the question, is there anyway stem cells could damage my good ear? Are these treatments meant for ppl death bilaterally? Obviously I’m in a position where I can wait 10yrs. Till china do some refinement or other treatments become available.

BTW i really appreciate the information that has been posted here

Pinky

Where did you get the information??? I have CI. I didn't get any permanent damage on nerve cells. It just damage in hearing cell during surgery. You need to research about CI. Don't be stir the stories. I refused to get Stem cell to cure for my deafness. Because it taking long time to study. It waste my times. I am happy with CI.

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OneSided

hey there sorry that was my clumsy language what I meant was its irreversible..i.e. once you get it that’s it! If say in 5-15yrs time a complete stem cell or other type cure becomes available you'd be stuck....but if you’re happy with that then good on you. By the way did you get CI in both your ears?

For me my situation is different I have one good ear and one bad one so Im going to wait it out, sorry if I offended you that was not my intention.

Pinky

Don't worry about the language. I don't care if I can't get stem cell. I don't need it. CI will be long lifetime. I have one CI right now. I will get bilateral CI after my baby's give birth. I don't have any issue with CI surgery and after CI.

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souggy

* head smacks into desk *

Hard to argue with someone that haven't developed lateral thinking.

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neuro

See RNID-supported scientists' work at

RNID.org.uk: How we help: Research and technology: Biomedical research: Our research: Projects archive: Restoring hearing


source: RNID.org.uk: Community: Forums: Tinnitus forum

deafdude1

OneSided,

You won't be a candidate for CI since you have a normal ear. CI is for those who are severe-profound deaf in both ears! You could look into bicros HAs first and if those don't work, look into BAHA. Id google BAHA and ask your audiologist about it.

Don't bother getting stem cells today as youll still be deaf. They will make people like me less deaf but I still won't hear normally with HAs, just will hear much better. Youll probably be waiting 15 years for stem cell technology(or some other technology) that is able to get your dead ear to at least near normal unaided hearing.

If you became deaf in your other ear then you could choose to be a pioneer in stem cells or wait a few years in silence(if HAs give no benefit) then get a 30db improvement with stem cells. Stem cells will also improve your tinnitus. Youd have to wear HAs but youll be able to hear better than what a CI can offer and you can always get more stem cells at a future date for additional improvements as technology matures. With CI you are stuck because of the changes CI does to your ear. This is also why I am saving both of my ears, I am getting stem cells right after the pioneers get it. I even blogged about it(click on audiogram link in sig)

souggy,

I am not starting any arguements, just correcting myths about stem cells. If you feel I said anything inaccurate, feel free to disagree and explain your position. I stand by the fact stem cells is not a cure(for 15 years or so) but will give 20-30db improvement to hearing.

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OneSided

Lol was that a passing shot at me?

I understand fully were she is coming from. At her age CI are probably effective enough but this in account of her situation. As I have already mentioned my situation is different.

Can I ask you if there was a cure in 2 years (which I think it impossible), hypothetically speaking would you choose to take it or would you prefer CI, HA or whatever your using now?

Deafdude1

Thanks, I expect to wait 10+ yrs and I really don’t mind i looked into CROS and BAHA but not really convinced I am however considering TRANSear to tide me over for the time being. I don’t think I’ll lose the hearing in my other ear, I lost my right ear due to trauma needless to say i am extra cautious about my left ear now. So wait I must..it was initially a shock but I’ve accepted and gotten used to it I can follow normal conversations , listen to music etc.. so there no rush.

BTW so someone with profound hearing loss or no residual hearing wont benefit from Stem cells today?

Thanks again I read your blog good stuff.

deafdude1

OneSided, I replied to you in the above post. If you have instant messenger, id like to chat to you about stem cells. Post your AIM handle in my blog(click audiogram link in my sig)

I am on AIM right now(you found me!), I await the chance to chat to you. Glad you have adjusted and can hear well with one ear. Some people seem to have trouble to some degree hearing with only one ear(I can understand why some want to go bilateral with CI) hearing with two ears helps alot in sound direction but can sometimes give a small increase in apparant sound loudness and speech.

The answers to stem cells are in this thread and on my blog. I will also discuss this with you.

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OneSided

Done

souggy

It's a shot at deaddude1 and neuro, not at you, since all they do is look at results and past events-- but they fail to realize there are new elements at play with stem cells.

And I wear hearing aids. Frankly, I rather get a CI before getting a stem cell treatment if there is a cure. Why? I never had full-hearing before. My speech comprehension in 2004 or 2005 was 50-60%. There is a couple other reasons, but just look at it from a deaf point of view:

when you get stem cells, there is no way to reverse it right? There is no way to turn them off at will. With new implantees, if things get overwhelming, they can turn them off then try again-- or ask to have them removed. They take them off at night as well. With stem cells, you can't do that. It's on 24/7, and no chance to escape from overwhelming new environmental sounds; at least with CIs, you can escape from them.

So what I get complete restoration back, and it's difficult for me to cope with it since I have never heard the other 40% of that spectrum? I would need a lot of psychotherapies, and a lot of rehab to adjust to that-- and I have already wasted the first 17-19 years of my life to that.

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deafdude1

Ok, what is your degree of hearing loss? You can get less stem cell treatments and stop getting stem cells when your hearing improves enough to make you happy. Improve your hearing to 80db and youll hear with HAs as good as CI. If you want to hear at say 60db unaided with stem cells, youll be able to be aided to 0db with HAs and hear normally with HAs(but not as good as someone hearing 0db unaided)

Wrong! One can always take a low dosage of ototoxic drugs to destroy some hearing. Take more ototoxic drugs to destroy more hearing. But why anyone would want to do that is beyond me. Stem cells is given in stages of treatment and it's much simplier to just get one stage of stem cell treatment at a time, not all at once! Today, people getting 6 stages of stem cell treatments can improve an average of 20db. In the future, more stages of stem cells will be used and each stage will have a larger effect. You could start with 3 stages, each stage administered once a week. Wait 90 days for the full effects and if you are happy with a partial improvement(10, 20, 30db) then you don't need to pay for more stages of stem cells! It's that simple and all the worries of how bad it's to be hearing is unfounded. I want to be hearing but I can decide if I got "enough" improvement and leave well enough alone and save my money and get to enjoy quiet without HAs.

That's why stem cells is administered in stages. You decide how much improvement you want. You decide how much unaided hearing you want. If you choose to hear unaided at 70db(severe deafness) you can turn off your HAs and enjoy silence! I have a 70db loss at 250Hz and I hear virtually nothing unaided. Stem cells can improve my hearing so I hear 70db at every frequency, well ill hear the lows better than 70db but nowhere near normal. Why would I want a CI when getting down to 80db pure tone average with stem cells will match a CI with none of the disadvantages? I will get down as far as I can tolerate, and I believe I can train my brain to get used to being hearing eventually. Todays stem cells can not make you hearing as ive said before, but give you a 20db average improvement! I will repeat the stem cell process as it improves and is capable of further improvements. I can choose to stop getting stem cells when I am happy with how well I hear. Maybe ill be happy with a 60db pure tone hearing loss unaided that can be aided to 0db. I remove my HAs and a 60db PTA HL will still give me silence at normal converstational levels(aka people talking in the same room won't be heard by me) Ill hear way better than a CI with only 60db loss, yet won't experience the "problem" of hearing 24/7.

Then a complete restoration is not for you! I understand and respect this! I don't even know if a complete restoration is for me either, but I can get my improvement gradually and stop when enough is enough. Remember that even a partial improvement with stem cells or even a CI will still take alot of adjusting for everyone. If you aren't willing to spend at least a few months adjusting, neither stem cells nor a CI is for you.

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Pinky

DeafDude, You're the stupid than I thought.

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AlleyCat

One passing thought .. if someone's against this because they've been deaf for only so many years and don't want to "adjust", then someone who's been deaf a long time, say 30+ years will see an adjustment or coping to increased hearing differently. There is something to be said for maturity and learning to cope with changes in your life.

jillio

Re: the bolded. That is not what the article says at all. It says they "have the potential". They do not know at this point whether it will be successful or not, just that the potential is there.

jillio

It is a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath for a physician to prescribe ototoxic drugs with the intent of purposely destroying hearing.

jillio

Quite true, Alleycat. Coping requires a degree of insight that generally improves with maturity.

neuro

Is There Anything Stem Cells Can’t Fix?

Natalie Curry – Cord Blood Saved My Life Blog Archive Is There Anything Stem Cells Can’t Fix?