How can max hearing aid gains ever not be a good thing?

deafdude1 · 04-04-2009, 06:34 AM

I had several different ideas how to word the subject of this post but the questions are the same. I know ive talked about max gains several times and the only answers ive gotten was "distortion" or something silly like "I choose not to hear my best"

It seems that some of the less "deaf" people choose not to max the gains as "saving" the extra gain for later. Why not hear your best now and when your hearing gets worse, either live with hearing less or upgrade to better HAs or even get a CI?(another discussion entirely) Why hear at 40db aided at all times when you can hear at 20db aided and if your hearing gets worse, youd still hear at say 30db aided and when it gets worse again, youll be at 40db aided. In the mean time, you would have enjoyed 20db for years then 30db for years!

Ive always wore the best HAs with the gains maxed out, save for a few db at 250Hz shy of max(which I didn't know back then and missed out on that) but I always had 1000Hz and above maxed out. It has already been tried, I hear worse in every aspect with less gain.

If a HA was not meant to operate at max gain, well then the company should not be claiming a gain of 80db if the HA is not capable of that without feedback or horrible distortion or even breaking down prematurely. They should have a spec sheet showing the HA performance at different amounts of gain and make a note saying something like "performance may be adversely affected if gains exceed 70db"

But another question begs the point, even if you got 2% distortion(which is what the specs claim) how bad can a little distortion be when you hear so much better? Even if you don't experience a big improvement in speech, youll still hear so much more environmental sounds(which are alot less sensitive to distortion) also you can always use the volume control, you don't have to leave it on max at all times. Say you are a passenger in a car and you get tired of hearing the noisy traffic, simply turn the volume down. Then you can turn it back up when the ride is over.

I am trying to learn more, I am honestly surprised for many reasons and even made a poll which alot of people voted that they did indeed have their gains maxed. Some voted that their HL was so profound HAs were nearly useless. Id like to know exactly how much HL at 250Hz, 500Hz, 1000Hz, etc they have. They might be surprised to know that today's HAs could at least let them hear alot of environmental sounds. Ill think of more questions to ask depending on the answers I get.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:42 AM

deafdude,

It does no good to hear environmental sounds if a person can't understand speech (unless a person accepts being able to hear environmental sounds only).

Besides, the more environmental sounds a person hears, the more difficult it is to understand speech in noise.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:47 AM

Say you are a passenger in a car and you get tired of hearing the noisy traffic, simply turn the volume down. Then you can turn it back up when the ride is over.

Using hearing aids isn't this simple -- especially for someone who has a profound loss. Heck, this wasn't even true for me when I had moderately-severe loss because I constantly had to adjust the volume control on my hearing aids. When environmental sounds were too loud, I had to turn them down. When someone spoke to me, I had to turn them back up. One thing I can say though is that I'm so glad the hearing aids I've worn in the past (Oticon 380Ps and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs) had volume controls. They were a must for me. If my hearing aids didn't have them, I have no idea how I would have functioned.

shel90 · 04-04-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

deafdude,

It does no good to hear environmental sounds if a person can't understand speech (unless a person accepts being able to hear environmental sounds only).

Besides, the more environmental sounds a person hears, the more difficult it is to understand speech in noise.

I am that person!

I never found turning my hearing aids to the max when talking with hearing people a problem. I use lipreading and some of my hearing combined. I cant do one without the other.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I am that person!

It's funny you should say that shel because I was thinking of you when I wrote that!

shel90 · 04-04-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

It's funny you should say that shel because I was thinking of you when I wrote that!

Growing up, I used to want to hear and understand speech so badly and I would become obsessive about it. When learning ASL, I realized that life can be ok without hearing speech. Since then, I have found myself being able to understand hearing people better..it is weird.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Growing up, I used to want to hear and understand speech so badly and I would become obsessive about it. When learning ASL, I realized that life can be ok without hearing speech. Since then, I have found myself being able to understand hearing people better..it is weird.

I wonder if this might be due to the fact that you feel more comfortable now that you have another way to communicate (ASL)? When I started using tactile sign, I noticed myself having an easier time hearing with my Comtek FM system. I wasn't so stressed about being unable to hear and felt comfortable knowing that I always had another form of communication (tactile sign) I could rely on.

***candybrowneyes*** · 04-04-2009, 09:06 AM

I am frustrated with this post, YET AGAIN!

deafdude, NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LOSS! If we maxed our gains out it would damage our ears!! There is a reason why they are able to be adjusted! If we hiked the gains up I wouldn't only be ringing my head but my hearing would get much worse in a short amount of time!
I don't know what it is going to take for you to understand that not every ones ears are like yours. Not everyone feels like you do. This subject is just getting redundant.

shel90 · 04-04-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I wonder if this might be due to the fact that you feel more comfortable now that you have another way to communicate (ASL)? When I started using tactile sign, I noticed myself having an easier time hearing with my Comtek FM system. I wasn't so stressed about being unable to hear and felt comfortable knowing that I always had another form of communication (tactile sign) I could rely on.

I am sure that is the case. That's what makes me pissed off is that I didnt have that growing up...would have saved me a lot of misery!

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I am sure that is the case. That's what makes me pissed off is that I didnt have that growing up...would have saved me a lot of misery!

I bet it would have. I feel the same way even though I had moderately-severe hearing loss in high school. If I had been given access to tactile sign, I'm sure school would have been much easier for me. We did have a Deaf student in my high school. Like me being the only blind student, she was the only Deaf student. Sometimes I envied her because she was able to use a terp in class and understand everything that was said. I had difficulty hearing female voices from the back of the room as well as hearing speech in background noise.

There was also a time when I was hospitalized for severe depression after I lost my hearing. There was a Deaf patient there who used a terp. It infuriated me because he could understand everything that was being said in group therapy while I could not. That only fueled my anger and made my hearing loss that much more difficult to accept.

Daredevel7 · 04-04-2009, 10:28 AM

Oh god, not again...

I don't think you understood 2% distortion. PERCENT means it relies on volume (or gain?) meaning when you increase volume/gain, you increase the distortion.

You said that you hear "better" with more gains, but you never specified how. Do you recognize more environmental sounds or do you understand speech better? At this point, I think "better" to you simply means "louder".

Sometimes I hear MUCH louder with the HA than the CI, but that means JACK SQUAT because I STILL can't discriminate much with that HA!

Bottesini · 04-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Oh god, not again...

I don't think you understood 2% distortion. PERCENT means it relies on volume (or gain?) meaning when you increase volume/gain, you increase the distortion.

You said that you hear "better" with more gains, but you never specified how. Do you recognize more environmental sounds or do you understand speech better? At this point, I think "better" to you simply means "louder".

Sometimes I hear MUCH louder with the HA than the CI, but that means JACK SQUAT because I STILL can't discriminate much with that HA!

Temper, temper. I think he is a lovely contrast to Faire-Jour insisting willy nilly that cochlear implants will solve everything for all people.

Daredevel7 · 04-04-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Temper, temper. I think he is a lovely contrast to Faire-Jour insisting willy nilly that cochlear implants will solve everything for all people.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry! *breathes in* *breathes out*

It's just way too early for redundant threads.

AlleyCat · 04-04-2009, 11:41 AM

Interestingly enough, I have never heard at 20 or 40 db aided. I think the best results I've ever seen on my audiograms with HAs is about 50-60 db. I'm not sure why that is, but it's always been that way for me. I do hear a lot of environmental sounds, but not at 20 or 40 db so I'm not sure what exactly I've been missing out on. But I've always lip-read and do so well at that, that I haven't felt the need for maxed-out HAs (even though I didn't realize I potentially could have better HAs than what I have now.)

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Temper, temper. I think he is a lovely contrast to Faire-Jour insisting willy nilly that cochlear implants will solve everything for all people.

I guarentee that if he gets a CI he will be back here doing exactly that. I have certainly never said that CI's work for everyone. I say that they work for the vast majority that choose to get them, and the research backs me up.

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 12:52 PM

So, deafdude, if your hearing aids are at 20 db, should a person just talk really loud to over come the difference? Why not? Isn't louder better?

john57 · 04-04-2009, 03:04 PM

One of the issues using maximum gain is that your dynamic range will be reduced. Your threshold of pain remains roughly the same and each time you increase the gain the more limited your dynamic range will be for the sounds that you can still hear. So some that means you will need more compression in your hearing aids to fit the more limited dynamic range you have. It is a compromise in getting enough gain to hear and not to much output that will cause pain or cause compression distortion that will limited me in hearing in noise. I have been wearing hearing aids that set to give outputs greater that 130db as needed for most of my life and I glad that my hair cells were able to function at those levels for all that time. I used to be against CI for a long period since I feel that I was getting good benefit from hearing aids and did not want to learn to hear in a alternative sound environment. My friends were surprised about my about-face decision in getting a CI implant two years ago.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 03:51 PM

When I started wearing my Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs, compression was enabled and I could barely hear a thing. I had my audi turn it off and noticed a significant difference in my ability to hear environmental sounds.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So, deafdude, if your hearing aids are at 20 db, should a person just talk really loud to over come the difference? Why not? Isn't louder better?

If deafdude's hearing aids were programmed so that he could hear at 20 dB, he wouldn't need someone to talk very loud. 20 dB aided or unaided hearing is good enough for most people to be able to hear/understand conversational speech at normal volume levels.

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

If deafdude's hearing aids were programmed so that he could hear at 20 dB, he wouldn't need someone to talk very loud. 20 dB aided or unaided hearing is good enough for most people to be able to hear/understand conversational speech at normal volume levels.

Sorry, I was trying to make the point that a person yelling is going to sound distorted and that it will be unhelpful, just like turning up hearing aids louder and louder. Sorry that wasn't clear!

Bottesini · 04-04-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I guarentee that if he gets a CI he will be back here doing exactly that. I have certainly never said that CI's work for everyone. I say that they work for the vast majority that choose to get them, and the research backs me up.

No he won't. You don't have one but you think you know all. The people who actually are using CI's are much more restrained and accurate in what they say.

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

No he won't. You don't have one but you think you know all. The people who actually are using CI's are much more restrained and accurate in what they say.

Tell me what I have done that is dishonest or misleading in any way?

defgrl · 04-04-2009, 07:24 PM

I can identify with feeling less anxious and/or frustrated by having an additional way to communicate. I learned to sign almost twenty years ago. Deaf people taught me. I thought learning to sign was very interesting. But, then, I became interested in the people. They eventually shared their "stories" with me-of how they became deaf: birth, sickness, accident, high fever, etc. They trusted me enough to tell me those very special things about themselves. And they gave me a BEAUTIFUL and PRECIOUS gift:Sign Language. In the past year or so, especially in the last several months, Deaf people have been gracious and kind. And there have been those from the Hearing world who have been that way as well. But, I have been able to achieve clear and meaningful communication only through Sign. The sharing of hopes, dreams, feelings, faith, etc. I finally feel alive.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by defgrl

I can identify with feeling less anxious and/or frustrated by having an additional way to communicate. I learned to sign almost twenty years ago. Deaf people taught me. I thought learning to sign was very interesting. But, then, I became interested in the people. They eventually shared their "stories" with me-of how they became deaf: birth, sickness, accident, high fever, etc. They trusted me enough to tell me those very special things about themselves. And they gave me a BEAUTIFUL and PRECIOUS gift:Sign Language. In the past year or so, especially in the last several months, Deaf people have been gracious and kind. And there have been those from the Hearing world who have been that way as well. But, I have been able to achieve clear and meaningful communication only through Sign. The sharing of hopes, dreams, feelings, faith, etc. I finally feel alive.

What a great post, defgirl!

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Sorry, I was trying to make the point that a person yelling is going to sound distorted and that it will be unhelpful, just like turning up hearing aids louder and louder. Sorry that wasn't clear!

No problem, faire_jour!

for clarifying!

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

What a great post, defgirl!

I shared my story with a parent this week. She had just found out about her child's severe hearing loss at age 5(!) She asked about CI's, so I did some explaining:

Ok, now the advice. Your child needs language and he needs it NOW! Being 5 years old and unable to communicate is not ok. Also, right now spoken language is not accessible, because he can not hear, maybe later with the CI he will be able to, but right now it isn't. So, the only other option is a visual language. If I was in your position I would start signing ASAP. If your child isn't signing enough, it's because you aren't signing enough. Our kids have to pick up language from us, so we have to put it out there! I am begging you, please, start signing. Everyday pick out 3 more words that you are going to sign today and use them. It is a lot of work to learn ASL, but our kids are worth it! Please, again, please start right now, your child needs language

Ok, now the CI. Yes, implanting this late, especially with a child that has been deaf since birth is very difficult. Statistically speaking, it is unlikely that he will become a oral language user. It is possible, but even if he doesn't, I don't think that is a reason not to implant!!! Even if all it does is give him environmental sounds, or awareness of loud speech (not understanding) that is wonderful!!!!! You can scream if you see a car coming and maybe he'll turn and look or at least stop...GREAT! Well worth it! I love my daughter's CI, and so does she. It has been a great choice for us. In fact, it is the second best thing we ever did for her, and the best was ASL. She has been severely speech delayed since she was 2, but she was never language delayed. She was always able to communicate her needs, wants and feelings to us, even if she couldn't speak, and that is what is important. Yes, the CI has changed her life, but ASL is what saved it.

JennyB · 04-04-2009, 08:35 PM

I am profoundly Deaf. This means that the haircells in my cochlea are relatively non-existant and at the very least extremely damaged. Due to that sound is not very clear when I can hear it through my hearing aids. When that sound gets louder, it doesn't get clearer just louder.

I don't understand many sounds. I can hear lots with my hearing aids but I rely on my hearing friends, or on an interpreter to tell me what I am hearing. I don't only mean speech, but environmental sounds too.

So, fine-go for it, max out my hearing aids and so I can hear more things I can't understand. There isn't a point and it is just annoying.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I shared my story with a parent this week. She had just found out about her child's severe hearing loss at age 5(!) She asked about CI's, so I did some explaining:

Ok, now the advice. Your child needs language and he needs it NOW! Being 5 years old and unable to communicate is not ok. Also, right now spoken language is not accessible, because he can not hear, maybe later with the CI he will be able to, but right now it isn't. So, the only other option is a visual language. If I was in your position I would start signing ASAP. If your child isn't signing enough, it's because you aren't signing enough. Our kids have to pick up language from us, so we have to put it out there! I am begging you, please, start signing. Everyday pick out 3 more words that you are going to sign today and use them. It is a lot of work to learn ASL, but our kids are worth it! Please, again, please start right now, your child needs language

Ok, now the CI. Yes, implanting this late, especially with a child that has been deaf since birth is very difficult. Statistically speaking, it is unlikely that he will become a oral language user. It is possible, but even if he doesn't, I don't think that is a reason not to implant!!! Even if all it does is give him environmental sounds, or awareness of loud speech (not understanding) that is wonderful!!!!! You can scream if you see a car coming and maybe he'll turn and look or at least stop...GREAT! Well worth it! I love my daughter's CI, and so does she. It has been a great choice for us. In fact, it is the second best thing we ever did for her, and the best was ASL. She has been severely speech delayed since she was 2, but she was never language delayed. She was always able to communicate her needs, wants and feelings to us, even if she couldn't speak, and that is what is important. Yes, the CI has changed her life, but ASL is what saved it.

This is another wonderful post.

I couldn't agree with you more. Even though I have bilateral CIs, I still keep up my signing skills because my implants do not make me hearing. I'm still deaf/deafblind and need tactile sign as a form of communication -- not to mention a means of communicating with my Deaf and deafblind friends.

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

This is another wonderful post.

I couldn't agree with you more. Even though I have bilateral CIs, I still keep up my signing skills because my implants do not make me hearing. I'm still deaf/deafblind and need tactile sign as a form of communication -- not to mention a means of communicating with my Deaf and deafblind friends.

This is why I get so upset when people say I'm an audist! I was actually told that I am trying to set Deaf ed back 200 years, by someone on this site! I just don't get it....

deafdude1 · 04-04-2009, 09:34 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will address your replies in the order as I read them. I have an appointment with an audiologist on April 6(That's Monday at 2pm) he's not the same one who sold my HAs but he will be able to test my HAs(and possibly some aspects of my hearing) and ill be asking him a bunch of questions, including the questions I made in this post. If any of you have some ideas of what I should ask him, let me know.

If a person can't understand speech regardless, might as well still benefit from hearing more environmental sounds. This is still important to be hearing sounds. I agree that volume control is a must.

I apologize to anyone frustrated with my post. I am only trying to get answers and even made an appointment with another audiologist for more testing and answers. I know each person's hearing is different and I suggest you and your audiologist work together. I will be working with all my audiologists to give what's best for me. My results won't be the same as another person's but it will be the best for me and only me. My audiologist did say my HAs have the potental to further damage my hearing, but he will adjust my HAs in a such way that they will not damage my hearing, yet at the same time give me the best possible hearing. I will let my audie know if I experience any ringing or discomfort. He feels I can be hearing better without any adverse effects. Again, I know each person is different, please see your own audiologist and work with him. Your audiologist and you know best how to let you hear the best possible.

You are right, I do not fully understand distortion and it's one of the questions I will ask my audies. By hearing better, I reconize alot more environmental sounds. I am hearing all kinds of new sounds I never heard before with my old HAs. My speech comphrension has also improved. Men's voice sounds deeper and better. I am able to discriminate an average of 70% of what my dad says without lipreading. I could never have done that with my old HAs cause alot of speech was inaudible. Same with alot of environmental sounds being inaudible.

I would never be happy hearing at only 50db aided, id be missing out on more than 75% of the environmental sounds. Ive turned the volume down on my HAs so I know this. I lose all ability to understand speech and when people talk, it sounds like they are barely even whispering. If 50db was the best I could get with HA, I honestly would take the risks with a CI, the odds are great that itll give me better than 50db threshold.

If I can be aided to 20db, a person only needs to talk a little louder than when talking to a hearing person. Right now a person would need to talk alot louder for me to hear him or her. But still not so loud that the voice starts to distort as well as causing discomfort for the person to be shouting at the top of his or her lungs. With the current gains I have, I can hear up to 80% of what my dad says without reading his lips. I had him test my hearing(at close range, talk louder) and I can differnate "snake" and "snakes" despite my poor aided higher frequency hearing. My audiologist feels ill hear much better when he reprograms my HAs.

john57's reply answers some of my questions. That's true about the dynamic range, doesn't it mostly have to do with how much residual hearing a person has? At 2000Hz with 120db HL and setting the SPL to 125db, that's 5db dynamic range there. My HAs can give up to 70db gain at 2000Hz so at least ill hear down to 50db and use 5:1 compression to "extend" the dynamic range to 25db. How did you handle over 130db SPL without discomfort or pain? How much SPL exactly is "safe" I don't care for high SPLs, I want good thresholds, not to try and exceed my tolerance levels. I am not against CI, but if you check my blog and if my math is correct, I have too much hearing to benefit from today's CI technology.

**********I will address the rest of the posts when I return. Going to CVS then watching a DVD. Thanks again for your replies!**************

04-04-2009, 06:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
deafdude1 Getting stem cells soon! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,269 Blog Entries: 1	How can max hearing aid gains ever not be a good thing? I had several different ideas how to word the subject of this post but the questions are the same. I know ive talked about max gains several times and the only answers ive gotten was "distortion" or something silly like "I choose not to hear my best" It seems that some of the less "deaf" people choose not to max the gains as "saving" the extra gain for later. Why not hear your best now and when your hearing gets worse, either live with hearing less or upgrade to better HAs or even get a CI?(another discussion entirely) Why hear at 40db aided at all times when you can hear at 20db aided and if your hearing gets worse, youd still hear at say 30db aided and when it gets worse again, youll be at 40db aided. In the mean time, you would have enjoyed 20db for years then 30db for years! Ive always wore the best HAs with the gains maxed out, save for a few db at 250Hz shy of max(which I didn't know back then and missed out on that) but I always had 1000Hz and above maxed out. It has already been tried, I hear worse in every aspect with less gain. If a HA was not meant to operate at max gain, well then the company should not be claiming a gain of 80db if the HA is not capable of that without feedback or horrible distortion or even breaking down prematurely. They should have a spec sheet showing the HA performance at different amounts of gain and make a note saying something like "performance may be adversely affected if gains exceed 70db" But another question begs the point, even if you got 2% distortion(which is what the specs claim) how bad can a little distortion be when you hear so much better? Even if you don't experience a big improvement in speech, youll still hear so much more environmental sounds(which are alot less sensitive to distortion) also you can always use the volume control, you don't have to leave it on max at all times. Say you are a passenger in a car and you get tired of hearing the noisy traffic, simply turn the volume down. Then you can turn it back up when the ride is over. I am trying to learn more, I am honestly surprised for many reasons and even made a poll which alot of people voted that they did indeed have their gains maxed. Some voted that their HL was so profound HAs were nearly useless. Id like to know exactly how much HL at 250Hz, 500Hz, 1000Hz, etc they have. They might be surprised to know that today's HAs could at least let them hear alot of environmental sounds. Ill think of more questions to ask depending on the answers I get. __________________ My reasons for choosing stem cells over CI are numerous. Many thousands have gotten stem cells for all conditions with 90% success rate. I have emailed/contacted stem cell centers, read articles, did my research and know the facts. Chloe got such good results she can hear well without HAs! My hearing loss is the same in both ears. Recent audiogram: 125Hz=55db, 250Hz=70db, 500Hz=90db, 750Hz=110db, 1000Hz-8000Hz=NR at 110db. I discuss my deafness and stem cells in my blog

04-04-2009, 08:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,087 Blog Entries: 6	deafdude, It does no good to hear environmental sounds if a person can't understand speech (unless a person accepts being able to hear environmental sounds only). Besides, the more environmental sounds a person hears, the more difficult it is to understand speech in noise. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

04-04-2009, 08:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,087 Blog Entries: 6	Say you are a passenger in a car and you get tired of hearing the noisy traffic, simply turn the volume down. Then you can turn it back up when the ride is over. Using hearing aids isn't this simple -- especially for someone who has a profound loss. Heck, this wasn't even true for me when I had moderately-severe loss because I constantly had to adjust the volume control on my hearing aids. When environmental sounds were too loud, I had to turn them down. When someone spoke to me, I had to turn them back up. One thing I can say though is that I'm so glad the hearing aids I've worn in the past (Oticon 380Ps and Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs) had volume controls. They were a must for me. If my hearing aids didn't have them, I have no idea how I would have functioned. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

04-04-2009, 09:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
*candybrowneyes* Tangled in the InterWebz Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 625 Blog Entries: 1	I am frustrated with this post, YET AGAIN! deafdude, NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LOSS! If we maxed our gains out it would damage our ears!! There is a reason why they are able to be adjusted! If we hiked the gains up I wouldn't only be ringing my head but my hearing would get much worse in a short amount of time! I don't know what it is going to take for you to understand that not every ones ears are like yours. Not everyone feels like you do. This subject is just getting redundant. __________________ Love is the force that transforms and improves the soul of the world...

04-04-2009, 03:51 PM	#18 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,087 Blog Entries: 6	When I started wearing my Oticon DigiFocus II super power BTEs, compression was enabled and I could barely hear a thing. I had my audi turn it off and noticed a significant difference in my ability to hear environmental sounds. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

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04-04-2009, 10:28 AM	#11 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 1,980	Oh god, not again... I don't think you understood 2% distortion. PERCENT means it relies on volume (or gain?) meaning when you increase volume/gain, you increase the distortion. You said that you hear "better" with more gains, but you never specified how. Do you recognize more environmental sounds or do you understand speech better? At this point, I think "better" to you simply means "louder". Sometimes I hear MUCH louder with the HA than the CI, but that means JACK SQUAT because I STILL can't discriminate much with that HA!

04-04-2009, 11:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
AlleyCat Chicken in a Cat Suit Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,736	Interestingly enough, I have never heard at 20 or 40 db aided. I think the best results I've ever seen on my audiograms with HAs is about 50-60 db. I'm not sure why that is, but it's always been that way for me. I do hear a lot of environmental sounds, but not at 20 or 40 db so I'm not sure what exactly I've been missing out on. But I've always lip-read and do so well at that, that I haven't felt the need for maxed-out HAs (even though I didn't realize I potentially could have better HAs than what I have now.)

04-04-2009, 12:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
faire_jour Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,223	So, deafdude, if your hearing aids are at 20 db, should a person just talk really loud to over come the difference? Why not? Isn't louder better?

04-04-2009, 03:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
john57 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 316	One of the issues using maximum gain is that your dynamic range will be reduced. Your threshold of pain remains roughly the same and each time you increase the gain the more limited your dynamic range will be for the sounds that you can still hear. So some that means you will need more compression in your hearing aids to fit the more limited dynamic range you have. It is a compromise in getting enough gain to hear and not to much output that will cause pain or cause compression distortion that will limited me in hearing in noise. I have been wearing hearing aids that set to give outputs greater that 130db as needed for most of my life and I glad that my hair cells were able to function at those levels for all that time. I used to be against CI for a long period since I feel that I was getting good benefit from hearing aids and did not want to learn to hear in a alternative sound environment. My friends were surprised about my about-face decision in getting a CI implant two years ago.

04-04-2009, 07:24 PM	#23 (permalink)
defgrl Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 87	Thankful For Sign I can identify with feeling less anxious and/or frustrated by having an additional way to communicate. I learned to sign almost twenty years ago. Deaf people taught me. I thought learning to sign was very interesting. But, then, I became interested in the people. They eventually shared their "stories" with me-of how they became deaf: birth, sickness, accident, high fever, etc. They trusted me enough to tell me those very special things about themselves. And they gave me a BEAUTIFUL and PRECIOUS gift:Sign Language. In the past year or so, especially in the last several months, Deaf people have been gracious and kind. And there have been those from the Hearing world who have been that way as well. But, I have been able to achieve clear and meaningful communication only through Sign. The sharing of hopes, dreams, feelings, faith, etc. I finally feel alive.

04-04-2009, 08:35 PM	#27 (permalink)
JennyB Deaf Activist! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 909	I am profoundly Deaf. This means that the haircells in my cochlea are relatively non-existant and at the very least extremely damaged. Due to that sound is not very clear when I can hear it through my hearing aids. When that sound gets louder, it doesn't get clearer just louder. I don't understand many sounds. I can hear lots with my hearing aids but I rely on my hearing friends, or on an interpreter to tell me what I am hearing. I don't only mean speech, but environmental sounds too. So, fine-go for it, max out my hearing aids and so I can hear more things I can't understand. There isn't a point and it is just annoying. __________________ Queer, Deaf, radical disability theorist, feminist, activist, advocate, and linguist. Fear me! Jenny~B http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

04-04-2009, 09:34 PM	#30 (permalink)
deafdude1 Getting stem cells soon! Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,269 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks for the replies everyone. I will address your replies in the order as I read them. I have an appointment with an audiologist on April 6(That's Monday at 2pm) he's not the same one who sold my HAs but he will be able to test my HAs(and possibly some aspects of my hearing) and ill be asking him a bunch of questions, including the questions I made in this post. If any of you have some ideas of what I should ask him, let me know. If a person can't understand speech regardless, might as well still benefit from hearing more environmental sounds. This is still important to be hearing sounds. I agree that volume control is a must. I apologize to anyone frustrated with my post. I am only trying to get answers and even made an appointment with another audiologist for more testing and answers. I know each person's hearing is different and I suggest you and your audiologist work together. I will be working with all my audiologists to give what's best for me. My results won't be the same as another person's but it will be the best for me and only me. My audiologist did say my HAs have the potental to further damage my hearing, but he will adjust my HAs in a such way that they will not damage my hearing, yet at the same time give me the best possible hearing. I will let my audie know if I experience any ringing or discomfort. He feels I can be hearing better without any adverse effects. Again, I know each person is different, please see your own audiologist and work with him. Your audiologist and you know best how to let you hear the best possible. You are right, I do not fully understand distortion and it's one of the questions I will ask my audies. By hearing better, I reconize alot more environmental sounds. I am hearing all kinds of new sounds I never heard before with my old HAs. My speech comphrension has also improved. Men's voice sounds deeper and better. I am able to discriminate an average of 70% of what my dad says without lipreading. I could never have done that with my old HAs cause alot of speech was inaudible. Same with alot of environmental sounds being inaudible. I would never be happy hearing at only 50db aided, id be missing out on more than 75% of the environmental sounds. Ive turned the volume down on my HAs so I know this. I lose all ability to understand speech and when people talk, it sounds like they are barely even whispering. If 50db was the best I could get with HA, I honestly would take the risks with a CI, the odds are great that itll give me better than 50db threshold. If I can be aided to 20db, a person only needs to talk a little louder than when talking to a hearing person. Right now a person would need to talk alot louder for me to hear him or her. But still not so loud that the voice starts to distort as well as causing discomfort for the person to be shouting at the top of his or her lungs. With the current gains I have, I can hear up to 80% of what my dad says without reading his lips. I had him test my hearing(at close range, talk louder) and I can differnate "snake" and "snakes" despite my poor aided higher frequency hearing. My audiologist feels ill hear much better when he reprograms my HAs. john57's reply answers some of my questions. That's true about the dynamic range, doesn't it mostly have to do with how much residual hearing a person has? At 2000Hz with 120db HL and setting the SPL to 125db, that's 5db dynamic range there. My HAs can give up to 70db gain at 2000Hz so at least ill hear down to 50db and use 5:1 compression to "extend" the dynamic range to 25db. How did you handle over 130db SPL without discomfort or pain? How much SPL exactly is "safe" I don't care for high SPLs, I want good thresholds, not to try and exceed my tolerance levels. I am not against CI, but if you check my blog and if my math is correct, I have too much hearing to benefit from today's CI technology. ********I will address the rest of the posts when I return. Going to CVS then watching a DVD. Thanks again for your replies!************ __________________ My reasons for choosing stem cells over CI are numerous. Many thousands have gotten stem cells for all conditions with 90% success rate. I have emailed/contacted stem cell centers, read articles, did my research and know the facts. Chloe got such good results she can hear well without HAs! My hearing loss is the same in both ears. Recent audiogram: 125Hz=55db, 250Hz=70db, 500Hz=90db, 750Hz=110db, 1000Hz-8000Hz=NR at 110db. I discuss my deafness and stem cells in my blog

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