How can max hearing aid gains ever not be a good thing? - Page 2

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 10:25 PM

I would never be happy hearing at only 50db aided, id be missing out on more than 75% of the environmental sounds.

How do you figure that? When I had 60-70 dB aided hearing, I was able to hear alot of environmental sounds.

By the way, if you are able to differentiate between the word "snake" and "snakes" with a profound loss, you are doing considerably better than I was when I had a moderately-severe loss. At that time, I couldn't tell the difference between singular words and plurals because they sounded the same. Even now that I have CIs, it depends on who is talking (i.e. male vs. female voice) whether or not I can make this differentiation.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 10:28 PM

I am not against CI, but if you check my blog and if my math is correct, I have too much hearing to benefit from today's CI technology.

If you can understand 80% of speech in a noisy environment, then yes, you do have too much hearing to benefit from a CI.

Hear Again · 04-04-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I was actually told that I am trying to set Deaf ed back 200 years, by someone on this site! I just don't get it....

Why did they tell you that?

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

Why did they tell you that?

Because I posted research that shows that kids with CI's in oral school placements do better with speech than kids in TC enviroments.

faire_jour · 04-04-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I am not against CI, but if you check my blog and if my math is correct, I have too much hearing to benefit from today's CI technology.

If you can understand 80% of speech in a noisy environment, then yes, you do have too much hearing to benefit from a CI.

Right. But as far as you unaided audiogram, that piece is a candidate.

faire_jour · 04-05-2009, 12:01 AM

Wow, deafdude, read your blog. It's full of untruths....

Hear Again · 04-05-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Right. But as far as you unaided audiogram, that piece is a candidate.

His unaided audiogram doesn't matter. If he understands 80% of speech in a noisy environment with hearing aids, he is not a CI candidate.

faire_jour · 04-05-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

His unaided audiogram doesn't matter. If he understands 80% of speech in a noisy environment with hearing aids, he is not a CI candidate.

I understand. But on his blog he is talking about how people with his same hearing loss should not be getting CI's. I just wanted to say that another person with his exactly loss, which is clearly a profound loss, who does not hear 80% of speech in noise (which let's face it, I doubt any of them could), could be a candidate.

Hear Again · 04-05-2009, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I understand. But on his blog he is talking about how people with his same hearing loss should not be getting CI's. I just wanted to say that another person with his exactly loss, which is clearly a profound loss, who does not hear 80% of speech in noise (which let's face it, I doubt any of them could), could be a candidate.

That makes sense.

for clarifying.

I don't want to read deafdude's blog because I'm afraid that it will upset me.

LadySekhmet · 04-05-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because I posted research that shows that kids with CI's in oral school placements do better with speech than kids in TC enviroments.

Interesting... very interesting. I'll take your word on that, I never really hear you say anything untruthful.

I grew up in a TC environment...however, during that time, CI's were non-existent. It wasn't until I reached HS that there was very few CI users. Now, there's a lot. I visited that school a little while ago, and I met some of the students...one had CI, the other had HA. They never signed. I thought that really ticked me off because I remember we used to sign all the time.

However, as for "speech" issues...you're pretty much right on the money. Out of 10 students in my class, only 3 students could speak very well, 4 can speak okay, but not that great. The last 3 do not take speech classes as their parents don't want them to or the child was more profoundly deaf. (keep in mind that all of this was PRE-CI hype, PRE-digital HA hype).

deafdude1 · 04-05-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyB

I am profoundly Deaf. This means that the haircells in my cochlea are relatively non-existant and at the very least extremely damaged. Due to that sound is not very clear when I can hear it through my hearing aids. When that sound gets louder, it doesn't get clearer just louder.

I don't understand many sounds. I can hear lots with my hearing aids but I rely on my hearing friends, or on an interpreter to tell me what I am hearing. I don't only mean speech, but environmental sounds too.

So, fine-go for it, max out my hearing aids and so I can hear more things I can't understand. There isn't a point and it is just annoying.

How would we know what "clear" sounds are like? What I hear sounds normal to me since birth, I always heard that way. Even the speech I hear sounds normal to me and any speech I don't understand sounds like the person isn't pronouncing the words correctly. I never had to relay on anyone for environmental sounds, but I did have a note taker in school. The teachers talked fast and not clear so id miss some of what theyd say. CI technology back then was only for those who had no residual hearing left.

Id rather at least hear things, even if I don't always understand them. What if there's a dog barking a block away or a siren? I would never hear it without enough gain. Same for walking into a store and hearing music, something id miss out if I turn the volume down on my HAs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

How do you figure that? When I had 60-70 dB aided hearing, I was able to hear alot of environmental sounds.

By the way, if you are able to differentiate between the word "snake" and "snakes" with a profound loss, you are doing considerably better than I was when I had a moderately-severe loss. At that time, I couldn't tell the difference between singular words and plurals because they sounded the same. Even now that I have CIs, it depends on who is talking (i.e. male vs. female voice) whether or not I can make this differentiation.

Well, I never heard alot of environmental sounds with the volume turned down, if you were happy hearing at 60-70db, your choice. You still got a CI for speech reasons. I would be getting it for speech and to hear more sounds. I would easily qualify for a CI if I heard no better than 60db aided with HAs and got less than 40% speech.

I had to be no more than 3 feet away from dad and he had to hiss out the "S" sound louder than normal, but at least I could still hear it so I know the hissing sound an "S" makes is no more than 2000Hz. Both you and my dad have a moderate high frequency loss, yet you both can hear the "S" as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

If you can understand 80% of speech in a noisy environment, then yes, you do have too much hearing to benefit from a CI.

I have a new post on my blog about this man who has a 95db+ profound HL, yet he understands over 90% of speech in noise! I am now thinking that most people have the potental to achieve a high % of speech despite being profoundly deaf with the best HAs programmed by an expert audiologist. One of the ladies I know has a moderate HL that slopes down to profound and she scored a 95% speech comphrension on the online test. For those reasons, I am impressed by HA technology and what it can achieve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Right. But as far as you unaided audiogram, that piece is a candidate.

Just a few years ago, people with my unaided audiogram would never be CI candidates. They should have never relaxed their audiogram requirements.(especially when many profoundly deaf people can score high on speech recognition with proper HAs, see my blog for proof.) Many CI centers still require a 90db to 110db+ HL but now people are just seeking a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion and shopping at different centers till they find one that has lax requirements. My dad says it's so they can do more CIs and earn more money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Wow, deafdude, read your blog. It's full of untruths....

Please point out the errors in my math on the blog. I will read your comments and respond to those. Any mistakes would be due to my sources being wrong, I only repeat what information I find. Ok for example if someone is aided to 20db with HAs, what would a CI person need to be aided to in order to have equal speech comphrension? I had added 5db for CIs, meaning CI is 5db better than HAs due to better quality sound and less distortion from what ive been told and confirmed as true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I understand. But on his blog he is talking about how people with his same hearing loss should not be getting CI's. I just wanted to say that another person with his exactly loss, which is clearly a profound loss, who does not hear 80% of speech in noise (which let's face it, I doubt any of them could), could be a candidate.

I spent an hour searching Google and found a case study of a guy with profound hearing loss(no better than 95db) being able to understand even more speech than me, he scores over 90%! He did get CI in the worse ear but it only raised his speech score a few percent. I commented alot in my blog about this case study. I now am a firm believer that if a person is given a chance with the best HAs and the audiologist is an expert and you train that person for 6 months, his speech will be well above the 40% cutoff required for CI candidacy. Honestly, everyone considering CI should be doing that first with HAs and speech training, I bet a large majority(even including the profoundly deaf) will have way too much speech recognition for CIs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I don't want to read deafdude's blog because I'm afraid that it will upset me.

Then I respect your choice. I am very frank and blunt in my blog and some people might get offended but I have the right to freedom of speech in my blog. I do point out numerous times in my blog that im not against CI, only that people should be realistic, forget all the CI hype and try proper HAs and I bet they will be surprised what HAs are capable of for anyone with measurable residual hearing that can be amplified. If they still insist on CI, fine that is their choice, I just want them to be fully informed and understand the risks.

Hear Again · 04-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Both you and my dad have a moderate high frequency loss, yet you both can hear the "S" as well.

My hearing loss in the high frequencies isn't considered moderate. It's normal to NR with my left CI and mild to moderately-severe with my right CI:

Left CI

1000 Hz - 20 dB
2000 Hz - 20 dB
4000 Hz - 60 dB
8000 Hz - NR

Right CI

1000 Hz - 30 dB
2000 Hz - 30 dB
4000 Hz - 60 dB
8000 Hz - 70 dB

Hear Again · 04-05-2009, 09:39 AM

Many CI centers still require a 90db to 110db+ HL but now people are just seeking a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion and shopping at different centers till they find one that has lax requirements. My dad says it's so they can do more CIs and earn more money.

As I've said before, CI centers/hospitals lose a significant amount of money on every CI surgery they perform. They don't implant everyone just to make more money.

For example, my CI center is the largest in the Midwest yet they only implant 7 people/year.

Hear Again · 04-05-2009, 09:53 AM

I had to be no more than 3 feet away from dad and he had to hiss out the "S" sound louder than normal, but at least I could still hear it so I know the hissing sound an "S" makes is no more than 2000Hz.

Actually, the letter "s" is considered to be a sound that is between 4000 and 8000 Hz.

faire_jour · 04-05-2009, 02:57 PM

The reason the FDA guidelines have changed is because research has shown that people with better and better residual hearing are doing better with CI's than with hearing aids. That is why the standards have changed. As the technology improves, the guidelines have changed because more people can get better results.

Lissa · 04-06-2009, 11:54 AM

I do agree with some of deaf dude's post and his blog, i think people should explore every option and try out the best hearings aids before jumping ahead for the CI option as some people would do better with their HA than their CI's. Faire Jour, some of your posts are certainly untrue

faire_jour · 04-06-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deafteen90

I do agree with some of deaf dude's post and his blog, i think people should explore every option and try out the best hearings aids before jumping ahead for the CI option as some people would do better with their HA than their CI's. Faire Jour, some of your posts are certainly untrue

I would love to have you point out my untruths.

shel90 · 04-06-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I would love to have you point out my untruths.

Deafteen is a CI user...she has the experience of having a CI unless I am wrong.

faire_jour · 04-06-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Deafteen is a CI user...she has the experience of having a CI unless I am wrong.

Yeah, and she said that I have written things that are untrue, so I would like to know what they are, so I can correct the misinformation.

shel90 · 04-06-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Yeah, and she said that I have written things that are untrue, so I would like to know what they are, so I can correct the misinformation.

ok....

Hear Again · 04-06-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I would love to have you point out my untruths.

For one, you said deafdude would qualify for a CI based on his unaided audiogram yet you failed to mention that speech discrimination is based on aided scores.

Second, you said children and adults are approved for CIs under FDA guidelines even though it is up to each CI center to determine who they wish to implant.

faire_jour · 04-06-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

For one, you said deafdude would qualify for a CI based on his unaided audiogram yet you failed to mention that speech discrimination is based on aided scores.

Second, you said children and adults are approved for CIs under FDA guidelines even though it is up to each CI center to determine who they wish to implant.

I actually posted the FDA guidelines. I have no idea what each center uses as criteria. And as far as his audiogram goes, that piece of the overall puzzle meets the FDA guidelines for implantation. As far as his speech discrimination, I wasn't aware that he had been tested by an audiologist, did I miss it, or am I forgetting?

JennyB · 04-07-2009, 12:38 AM

How would we know what "clear" sounds are like?

I used to have a bit more hearing. I know that when I did things sounded clearer.

What I hear sounds normal to me since birth, I always heard that way. Even the speech I hear sounds normal to me and any speech I don't understand sounds like the person isn't pronouncing the words correctly. I never had to relay on anyone for environmental sounds, but I did have a note taker in school.

I rely on my intepreter for all sound related information.

The teachers talked fast and not clear so id miss some of what theyd say. CI technology back then was only for those who had no residual hearing left.

I need to have note-takers and interpreters with me in every class.

Id rather at least hear things, even if I don't always understand them. What if there's a dog barking a block away or a siren? I would never hear it without enough gain. Same for walking into a store and hearing music, something id miss out if I turn the volume down on my HAs.

I would not. If I am outside and there is a dog barking, a siren, traffice...it all sounds the same. It is all just a jumbled mess of sound. It is pure noise and I don't understand it. Even when people tell me I have a hard time identifying it the next time I hear it. I find it confusing and annoying.

Do you wear your hearing aids at every waking moment?

I don't and maybe that is one place where we are different. I don't rely on sound for anything. I don't need it for communication, or to understand my environment. I never put my hearing aids on today!

Hear Again · 04-07-2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I actually posted the FDA guidelines. I have no idea what each center uses as criteria. And as far as his audiogram goes, that piece of the overall puzzle meets the FDA guidelines for implantation. As far as his speech discrimination, I wasn't aware that he had been tested by an audiologist, did I miss it, or am I forgetting?

deafdude said that he could understand 80% of what his father said when he was riding in the car. It would be interesting to find out how well he scored on 50 single words, 50 sentences in noise and 50 sentences in quiet to see how much he could really understand.

LadySekhmet · 04-07-2009, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

deafdude said that he could understand 80% of what his father said when he was riding in the car. It would be interesting to find out how well he scored on 50 single words, 50 sentences in noise and 50 sentences in quiet to see how much he could really understand.

I agree. If I was driving with my mother, I would understand 99% of what she said...simply because I'm used to hearing her and how she speaks. Now, if she was behind me, i probably can pick up a few words here and there. If it was a totally new person - such as the speaker on the tapes - I would have much more difficulty. So I would not rely on his "results". It's moot. Even online test doesn't do it justice. This was the exact reason why audiobooks doesn't really help me much because I can easily follow it 99.9% of the time.

overthepond · 04-07-2009, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadySekhmet

This was the exact reason why audiobooks doesn't really help me much because I can easily follow it 99.9% of the time.

Thats what i have been trying to explain people... the audio books are easy to follow while reading a book at same time.... but without book it's hard for me to understand. I told my hearing therapist this, they say patience, (I am really sick of hearing this word!!) Yes i have no patience BUT why can't they help me a little bit more to learn how to listen for words (i had one session on how to listen for sylables, another easy questions thats all) while i have the drive to do it now. I am told at my 6 month that i don't need hearing therapy anymore. I am fully aware that i need alot of therapy to gain some spoken words in to my shrivelled up old brain who haven't heard of a word for 30 years.
Daredevel had given me good advices through email. I just need some people willing to help but there is noone, none of my "friends" are deaf aware, There is two but she's in Falklands and he's in Peru, hope the falklands girl comes home soon. I would love to do this with my parents in Austria but they are techo phobe! They refused to set up Skype in case of high costs in phone bill!! I keep telling them it's free but they refused point blank!

Lissa · 04-07-2009, 06:36 AM

Me and Deafdude had a long talk outside of AllDeaf.com and he was explaining his theories and had evidence to back up when he has been saying. some of them are quite reasonable and some of them I am not sure about, I think Fair Joure also need to make sure she is 100 percent sure about things before she says them because I have noticed in her post she has told some untruths and misinformation

LadySekhmet · 04-07-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deafteen90

Me and Deafdude had a long talk outside of AllDeaf.com and he was explaining his theories and had evidence to back up when he has been saying. some of them are quite reasonable and some of them I am not sure about, I think Fair Joure also need to make sure she is 100 percent sure about things before she says them because I have noticed in her post she has told some untruths and misinformation

FairJour understands that. She will admit if she's wrong. She hears information and has done research on CIs and stuff, so that's where she's getting the info from. She does not like it when (neither do I for that matter) people say she is wrong, and do not explain WHY she's wrong. If you explain WHERE and WHY she is wrong, she will be apologetic. She has simply asked where do you think she said something was not true...and you haven't replied (if you did, then I must have missed it).

That's her point. It's the same for me too. If someone told me that I'm wrong or saying untruths, I want you to prove it, and so I don't go around telling the same "untruth" again. Make sense? We are all here to learn.

We have repeatedly asked DeafDude to GIVE us the research, tell us the documentations that proves his point...he still hasn't done that. That's why some of us are skeptical. If he proves it to us, then we will go , "Ohh! Okay!..." etc. If there's no proof, then I don't care.

The one thing I hate is when someone focus on ONE little story that a CI didn't really help them or they didn't get much benefit from them. There's HUNDRED THOUSANDS of CI users. At LEAST one will have issues with the CI.

It doesn't mean the CI is BETTER than HA. It goes on individual case to case basis.

Somewhere, someone mentioned that each of us perceive the world differently from one another. I see this color as eggshell white. She sees this color as off-white. I hear a dog bark this way. She hears the dog bark slightly different. We have to use what we have and what we know.

04-04-2009, 10:25 PM	#31 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,073 Blog Entries: 6	I would never be happy hearing at only 50db aided, id be missing out on more than 75% of the environmental sounds. How do you figure that? When I had 60-70 dB aided hearing, I was able to hear alot of environmental sounds. By the way, if you are able to differentiate between the word "snake" and "snakes" with a profound loss, you are doing considerably better than I was when I had a moderately-severe loss. At that time, I couldn't tell the difference between singular words and plurals because they sounded the same. Even now that I have CIs, it depends on who is talking (i.e. male vs. female voice) whether or not I can make this differentiation. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

04-04-2009, 10:28 PM	#32 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,073 Blog Entries: 6	I am not against CI, but if you check my blog and if my math is correct, I have too much hearing to benefit from today's CI technology. If you can understand 80% of speech in a noisy environment, then yes, you do have too much hearing to benefit from a CI. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

04-05-2009, 09:34 AM	#42 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,073 Blog Entries: 6	Both you and my dad have a moderate high frequency loss, yet you both can hear the "S" as well. My hearing loss in the high frequencies isn't considered moderate. It's normal to NR with my left CI and mild to moderately-severe with my right CI: Left CI 1000 Hz - 20 dB 2000 Hz - 20 dB 4000 Hz - 60 dB 8000 Hz - NR Right CI 1000 Hz - 30 dB 2000 Hz - 30 dB 4000 Hz - 60 dB 8000 Hz - 70 dB __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual Last edited by Hear Again; 04-05-2009 at 10:20 AM.

04-05-2009, 09:39 AM	#43 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,073 Blog Entries: 6	Many CI centers still require a 90db to 110db+ HL but now people are just seeking a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion and shopping at different centers till they find one that has lax requirements. My dad says it's so they can do more CIs and earn more money. As I've said before, CI centers/hospitals lose a significant amount of money on every CI surgery they perform. They don't implant everyone just to make more money. For example, my CI center is the largest in the Midwest yet they only implant 7 people/year. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

04-05-2009, 09:53 AM	#44 (permalink)
Hear Again Each day is a gift. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 20,073 Blog Entries: 6	I had to be no more than 3 feet away from dad and he had to hiss out the "S" sound louder than normal, but at least I could still hear it so I know the hissing sound an "S" makes is no more than 2000Hz. Actually, the letter "s" is considered to be a sound that is between 4000 and 8000 Hz. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual

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04-05-2009, 12:01 AM	#36 (permalink)
faire_jour Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,698	Wow, deafdude, read your blog. It's full of untruths....

04-05-2009, 02:57 PM	#45 (permalink)
faire_jour Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,698	The reason the FDA guidelines have changed is because research has shown that people with better and better residual hearing are doing better with CI's than with hearing aids. That is why the standards have changed. As the technology improves, the guidelines have changed because more people can get better results.

04-06-2009, 11:54 AM	#46 (permalink)
Lissa Just me....Lissa Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,093 Blog Entries: 3	I do agree with some of deaf dude's post and his blog, i think people should explore every option and try out the best hearings aids before jumping ahead for the CI option as some people would do better with their HA than their CI's. Faire Jour, some of your posts are certainly untrue __________________ Left Ear Nucleus Freedom Implanted-October 25th 2000 Activation-November 28th 2000

04-07-2009, 12:38 AM	#53 (permalink)
JennyB Deaf Activist! Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 784	How would we know what "clear" sounds are like? I used to have a bit more hearing. I know that when I did things sounded clearer. What I hear sounds normal to me since birth, I always heard that way. Even the speech I hear sounds normal to me and any speech I don't understand sounds like the person isn't pronouncing the words correctly. I never had to relay on anyone for environmental sounds, but I did have a note taker in school. I rely on my intepreter for all sound related information. The teachers talked fast and not clear so id miss some of what theyd say. CI technology back then was only for those who had no residual hearing left. I need to have note-takers and interpreters with me in every class. Id rather at least hear things, even if I don't always understand them. What if there's a dog barking a block away or a siren? I would never hear it without enough gain. Same for walking into a store and hearing music, something id miss out if I turn the volume down on my HAs. I would not. If I am outside and there is a dog barking, a siren, traffice...it all sounds the same. It is all just a jumbled mess of sound. It is pure noise and I don't understand it. Even when people tell me I have a hard time identifying it the next time I hear it. I find it confusing and annoying. Do you wear your hearing aids at every waking moment? I don't and maybe that is one place where we are different. I don't rely on sound for anything. I don't need it for communication, or to understand my environment. I never put my hearing aids on today! __________________ Queer, Deaf, radical disability theorist, feminist, activist, advocate, and linguist. Fear me! Jenny~B http://journysofadeafgirl.blogspot.com/

04-07-2009, 06:36 AM	#57 (permalink)
Lissa Just me....Lissa Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,093 Blog Entries: 3	Me and Deafdude had a long talk outside of AllDeaf.com and he was explaining his theories and had evidence to back up when he has been saying. some of them are quite reasonable and some of them I am not sure about, I think Fair Joure also need to make sure she is 100 percent sure about things before she says them because I have noticed in her post she has told some untruths and misinformation __________________ Left Ear Nucleus Freedom Implanted-October 25th 2000 Activation-November 28th 2000

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