Whoa! - Page 5

Byrdie714 · 07-25-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

The parent is a friend of a friend, so she gave written consent for the audiologist to speak with me. And unfortunately, it is true what I've posted. It is outrageous, and it does seem far-fetched. What the audiologist has scheduled is the initial part of the whole, long process of getting the child approved for a CI. Thenshe told the mother that she needs to go to the appointment. This practice is unethical and by doing so, she's overstepping the boundaries.

It makes me very angry that a person in this field would abuse her "power." She should give her advice to the parent...and leave it to the parents to make the next step of what they think is the best.

The mother and I both are going to meet with her this week.

Keep us posted...

jillio · 07-25-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomToDeafChild

What I don't understand is why the mom is going to the appointment with the ENT at ALL if she feels so strongly that she is being pushed into something she doesn't want to do? Why doesn't she just say, "Thanks, but no thanks", and find another audiologist who will better understand her needs? She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do. This is why I can imagine it would be easy for the mom and the audi to have a miscommunication in the first place, since mom hasn't even taken charge to not go to an appointment she isn't comfortable with...

The mom never stated that she was going to the appointment. She stated that the appointment was made for her, and then she was told she "needed" to go. That is why deafbajagal and the mother are meeting with the audi. Whether the mother goes to the appointment or not is not the issue. How the mother handles the situation with the audi is not the issue. The issue is the audi stepping outside professional standards for practice. She needs to be confronted with her unethical behavior, because, quite obviously, no one has had the courage to do so prior. That is exactly why her behavior has become the norm for her. I applaud deafbajagal and this mother for having the courage to address the issue.

MomToDeafChild · 07-25-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The mom never stated that she was going to the appointment. She stated that the appointment was made for her, and then she was told she "needed" to go. That is why deafbajagal and the mother are meeting with the audi. Whether the mother goes to the appointment or not is not the issue. How the mother handles the situation with the audi is not the issue. The issue is the audi stepping outside professional standards for practice. She needs to be confronted with her unethical behavior, because, quite obviously, no one has had the courage to do so prior. That is exactly why her behavior has become the norm for her. I applaud deafbajagal and this mother for having the courage to address the issue.

I see! I thought the appointment they were both going to was for the ENT, but now I see that they are going to see the audi, not the ENT. Thanks for clearing that up!

jillio · 07-25-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomToDeafChild

I see! I thought the appointment they were both going to was for the ENT, but now I see that they are going to see the audi, not the ENT. Thanks for clearing that up!

No problem!

Grummer · 07-25-2008, 11:24 AM

let us know how you got on.....wow you are brave...here's a nice long island iced tea drink for you....

Oceanbreeze · 07-25-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

And were you so "intimidated" by them that you agreed to subscribe to that particular treatment even though you did not agree with it?

I was a child at the time. My parents were the ones advocating for me when that was going on. To answer your question, though, no. We fought that particular Dr for years. When I became old enough, we left that particular hospital and I was under the care of another Dr then.

You seem to think that it doesn't happen. It does, Rick. That's my point. That audi overstepped herself and that is why we're (myself included) are so upset. The audi's job is to simply give information and work with asistive devices. It's up to the parents to decide how to prooceed.

This audi superceded her authority; BIG TIME!

Oceanbreeze · 07-25-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That is the whole point. Deafbajagirl never meant it as widespread criticsm of the whole profession. She was addressing this one particular audi's actions. And when kept in that context, this one audi is indeed out of line. Unfortunately, rather than commenting on this one situation as described, some people seem to think the way to address it is to discount what has been claimed. The point is, the mother has stated what happened from her perspective. If the mother walked away from her meeting with this audiologist feeling that she was being pressured, and having appointments set up for her child that she did not autorize, did this audi treat this client ethically and under the guideline of professional practice standards?

deafbajagal · 07-25-2008, 10:33 PM

After talking to the mother and getting her consent, it was requested for the meeting to be postponed for Tuesday. The audiologist's office did not provide an ASL interpreter (and yes, I did request for one in advance)- and I wanted to make sure that I understood everything that was being discussed. The audiologist came out to meet with us in the waiting room and recognized me immediately since we've worked together as she worked/works with many of my students. She apologized for forgetting to get an interpreter and assured me that there will be one on Tuesday. We were almost in the car when the mother (now a friend) had to go inside to get something she had left in the waiting room. She came back to the car and was grinning. I asked her, "What is so funny?" She said, "Oh, boy. Apparently your reputation precedes you." I asked her what she meant. "I overheard the lady in the office say that you make **** very nervous." I replied, "If she is doing what I suspect, then she better be very nervous."

deafbajagal · 07-25-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

How can you not be sure? Earlier you said you had spoken to the audiologist directly:

"I called the audiologist just a few moments ago because I wanted a straight answer. Apparently she does this (call for an appointment to meet with the surgeon and even will schedule the surgery because the surgeon and her are great friends) for a lot of parents to help them with the "transition process." This person is claimed to be one of the most successful audiologists (who is also a speech pathologist) in the state. She has a lot of recognition for her work...and is highly praised by the field. Oh, boy."

There seems to be a lot of miscommunication and backtracking going on.
Rick

Hence the purpose of this meeting - to clear things up once and for all. I refuse to report her to the board unless I feel it is warranted. At this time, I don't have solid information. I've never said that I knew what was going on - just that there's something not quite right with the picture.

deafbajagal · 07-25-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That is the whole point. Deafbajagirl never meant it as widespread criticsm of the whole profession. She was addressing this one particular audi's actions. And when kept in that context, this one audi is indeed out of line. Unfortunately, rather than commenting on this one situation as described, some people seem to think the way to address it is to discount what has been claimed. The point is, the mother has stated what happened from her perspective. If the mother walked away from her meeting with this audiologist feeling that she was being pressured, and having appointments set up for her child that she did not autorize, did this audi treat this client ethically and under the guideline of professional practice standards?

Thank you for reinforcing my statements and the whole point of this thread.

deafbajagal · 07-25-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Yes, there are always bad eggs in every group, who pull down the rest. If not this woman, then someone else. Good luck with your meeting and hope that it's not too difficult and ends on a more positive and constructive note.

I do, too. Thank you for your encouragement.

Cloggy · 07-26-2008, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

I just found out about something that had happened very recently in my hometown. A mother very recently found out her two year old daughter is deaf. She's overwhelmed with all of the information about deafness, communication philosophies, etc. Her audiologist discussed getting a CI. The mother said she wanted to wait until she had time to sort through all of the information first (and to have time for her shock to sink in).

The audiologist went ahead and scheduled the surgery anyway. She insisted that if the mother puts off the CI, then it may be "too late" for the child. Now the mother feels pressured to proceed with the CI surgery.

What's wrong with this picture?

Just found this thread, so I'll jump in before I read the other 7 pages...

Perhaps you there's a wrong interpretation...

WOW... drama everywhere! (btw Rick.. isn't the "ignore-list" a great feature..)

What I would like to know is ...
how did this info start...??? Did someone lipread the mother and interpretated it in the wrong way?
Just curious.....

Still think the story has too many holes, but obviously it will get strong responses.... Like with many myths.

Scheduled surgery? I very much doubt that it can even be done.
... or they went ahead and started a request... Big difference.

I wish that they had started the procedure for CI when we were trying out the HA's with Lotte. A request is easily stopped if it is not needed. With us, only when it showed HA's were no help the request for CI started... losing valuable time...

Still, everything should be done at the parents request... also starting CI procedure..

**shel90** · 07-26-2008, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

I can't help but wonder what would happen if all of us got together and play flag football one day. Rick could be the caption of one team...and naturally Jillo would be the caption of the other team. Wouldn't that be so much fun?! LOL.

I know we all have our views...and there's a lot of passion that comes with those views. But in the end...we're all dirty and sore from the football game. Hopefully - that's when we get together for pizza and beer and have a great time - football aside.

LOL!

Well, see what happens on Tuesday. I am glad u make them nervous.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

After talking to the mother and getting her consent, it was requested for the meeting to be postponed for Tuesday. The audiologist's office did not provide an ASL interpreter (and yes, I did request for one in advance)- and I wanted to make sure that I understood everything that was being discussed. The audiologist came out to meet with us in the waiting room and recognized me immediately since we've worked together as she worked/works with many of my students. She apologized for forgetting to get an interpreter and assured me that there will be one on Tuesday. We were almost in the car when the mother (now a friend) had to go inside to get something she had left in the waiting room. She came back to the car and was grinning. I asked her, "What is so funny?" She said, "Oh, boy. Apparently your reputation precedes you." I asked her what she meant. "I overheard the lady in the office say that you make **** very nervous." I replied, "If she is doing what I suspect, then she better be very nervous."

"Forgetting" to get an interpreter? Speaks volumes regarding attitude toward the very people she is supposed to serve. Looks like her alliance is not with her clients, as it should be, but with the medical community doing implants. Hmmm...since clients would normally provide her with her income, one wonders if she is receiving financial assistance that would cause her loyalty to be swayed in another direction>

**shel90** · 07-26-2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

"Forgetting" to get an interpreter? Speaks volumes regarding attitude toward the very people she is supposed to serve. Looks like her alliance is not with her clients, as it should be, but with the medical community doing implants. Hmmm...since clients would normally provide her with her income, one wonders if she is receiving financial assistance that would cause her loyalty to be swayed in another direction>

I wondered the same thing too...never heard of an audi "forgetting" to get a terp. Wonder if that was on purpose in the hopes of avoiding the meeting?

jillio · 07-26-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

Just found this thread, so I'll jump in before I read the other 7 pages...

Perhaps you there's a wrong interpretation...

WOW... drama everywhere! (btw Rick.. isn't the "ignore-list" a great feature..)

What I would like to know is ...
how did this info start...??? Did someone lipread the mother and interpretated it in the wrong way?
Just curious.....

Still think the story has too many holes, but obviously it will get strong responses.... Like with many myths.

Scheduled surgery? I very much doubt that it can even be done.
... or they went ahead and started a request... Big difference.

I wish that they had started the procedure for CI when we were trying out the HA's with Lotte. A request is easily stopped if it is not needed. With us, only when it showed HA's were no help the request for CI started... losing valuable time...

Still, everything should be done at the parents request... also starting CI procedure..

Oh, yeah! Invasive surgery is ALWAYS the first recommendation for treatment.

Please, cloggy, there is a reason they try noninvasive procedures first. It is called "risk". And the hippocratic Oath that specifically states "Do no harm."

Obviously, you are unfamiliar with the meaning of the word "myth". This is not a myth, it is an actual occurrance. The myth is that audis are incapable of unethical action simply because they possess credentials. You and rick seem to buying into that little myth quite easily, but then, fairy tales are always a nice break from real life. It can get quite dysfunctional, however, when you, yourself start to believe them.

Perhaps if you had bothered to read all of the 7 pages, your comments would have been more appropriate. But it doesn't surprise me in the least that you read only partially, and then claimed to have enough information to pronounce a definitive judgement regarding the situation. It is quite typical of you.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

LOL!

Well, see what happens on Tuesday. I am glad u make them nervous.

Yeah, me, too. BTW, why would the audi be nervous if she did nothave something to hide?

**shel90** · 07-26-2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Yeah, me, too. BTW, why would the audi be nervous if she did nothave something to hide?

Good point!

jillio · 07-26-2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I wondered the same thing too...never heard of an audi "forgetting" to get a terp. Wonder if that was on purpose in the hopes of avoiding the meeting?

or having a ready made excuse to claim "misunderstanding"

vallee · 07-26-2008, 09:42 AM

Good to see you Cloggy. The pictures are great!

Deadbajabal,
thanks for the update. I look forward to your report on Tuesday. Since this audie is doing all this, you should report her. Since all this equals an unethical professional and you owe it to the patients to report her. I won't wait to Tuesday. You must do it now. Your list equals someone who should not be seeing patients. What happens if one of us are using her and this is how she treats her patients, I would want to know.

The other side this thread seems like the game telephone. I will wait for your posting. I have not seen this audie and even know your location, but others feel free to post in your name. If you skip the 7 pages maybe one pages has all the information.

I have never had this situation as the majority of my audies and ENTs have been fantastic. I have been through the process of CIs and that I do know. While it has changed my life, it is not for everyone. It took many years for me to make my decision.

So I will check back on Tuesday to read what happens.

john57 · 07-26-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I wondered the same thing too...never heard of an audi "forgetting" to get a terp. Wonder if that was on purpose in the hopes of avoiding the meeting?

I would not be second guessing what happened it was not the client that needed the terp but a friend of the client that need a term. In one of my situations the person in the front office scheduling provide a terp when I needed one to see a ENT. I would not think to much about it.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's cold if someone is blaming the deaf person for lipreading wrong. Really really

Did someone lipread the mother and interpretated it in the wrong way?
Just curious.....

How did this info come out anyway? Did someone lipread the mother and interpreted it wrong.. Perhaps the mother only knew a little sign and used "surgery" instead of "procedure".

Right there it is, from posts #191 and #192. Since deafbajagal is the deaf individual in the equation, cloggy was basically saying that this never occurred as she has related it, but is just a case of her not "lipreading" the mother correctly, or that the mother used the sign for "surgery" when she meant "procedure" and deafbajagal interpreted it wrong.

Given that the mother requested deafbajagal's assistance, we all know that it wasn't a case of misinterpretation. But such an accusation is most certainly a case of ingorance. Not to mention, as you stated,

jillio · 07-26-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john57

I would not be second guessing what happened it was not the client that needed the terp but a friend of the client that need a term. In one of my situations the person in the front office scheduling provide a terp when I needed one to see a ENT. I would not think to much about it.

It wasn't second-guessing. Deafbajagal stated that the audi told her that she "forgot" to schedule" a terp. And, in her position as an advocate for this parent, she is perfectly entitled to one.

deafbajagal · 07-26-2008, 12:34 PM

Hmmm...Cloggy is right! I could have made lots of mistakes lipreading and using my speech.

Shoot. I guess we should all drop oral education right here and now so all children will learn sign language so when they grow up- they won't be like me.

deafbajagal · 07-26-2008, 12:57 PM

Topic: Ethical issues related to an audiologist's actions and making decisions for a parent; parent's rights to make informed choices

Off topic: Insulting posters; Anti-CI/Pro-CI views; Direct communication between posters (please use the PM feature for this purpose); whether or not the OP is lying about the situation or doesn't know what she's talking about; how "far fetched" the "story" seems to you

I would hate to ask a mod to close, lock, and delete this thread...but if the insults continue, I will.

Let's play nice, folks. And I respectfully ask for all of us to get back on topic.

**shel90** · 07-26-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

Topic: Ethical issues related to an audiologist's actions and making decisions for a parent; parent's rights to make informed choices

Off topic: Insulting posters; Anti-CI/Pro-CI views; Direct communication between posters (please use the PM feature for this purpose); whether or not the OP is lying about the situation or doesn't know what she's talking about; how "far fetched" the "story" seems to you

I would hate to ask a mod to close, lock, and delete this thread...but if the insults continue, I will.

Let's play nice, folks. And I respectfully ask for all of us to get back on topic.

Gotcha! My apologies.

Anyways, what will the mother do if the audi did say that she felt it was needed for her to make the appt without the her contest? What would be the next plan of action to be taken? If that's too personal, I undy.

jillio · 07-26-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Gotcha! My apologies.

Anyways, what will the mother do if the audi did say that she felt it was needed for her to make the appt without the her contest? What would be the next plan of action to be taken? If that's too personal, I undy.

My apologies, too, deafbajagal!

That's a good question, Shel. As a mother, I know I would find another audi ASAP! As an advocate, I would definately ask for peer review of both this audi, and the surgeon to who she refers.

07-25-2008, 11:24 AM	#125 (permalink)
Grummer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In the Batcave Posts: 9,825	let us know how you got on.....wow you are brave...here's a nice long island iced tea drink for you.... __________________ "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of awareness that created them." Albert Einstein

07-26-2008, 09:42 AM	#140 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,216	Good to see you Cloggy. The pictures are great! Deadbajabal, thanks for the update. I look forward to your report on Tuesday. Since this audie is doing all this, you should report her. Since all this equals an unethical professional and you owe it to the patients to report her. I won't wait to Tuesday. You must do it now. Your list equals someone who should not be seeing patients. What happens if one of us are using her and this is how she treats her patients, I would want to know. The other side this thread seems like the game telephone. I will wait for your posting. I have not seen this audie and even know your location, but others feel free to post in your name. If you skip the 7 pages maybe one pages has all the information. I have never had this situation as the majority of my audies and ENTs have been fantastic. I have been through the process of CIs and that I do know. While it has changed my life, it is not for everyone. It took many years for me to make my decision. So I will check back on Tuesday to read what happens. __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

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07-25-2008, 10:33 PM	#128 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	After talking to the mother and getting her consent, it was requested for the meeting to be postponed for Tuesday. The audiologist's office did not provide an ASL interpreter (and yes, I did request for one in advance)- and I wanted to make sure that I understood everything that was being discussed. The audiologist came out to meet with us in the waiting room and recognized me immediately since we've worked together as she worked/works with many of my students. She apologized for forgetting to get an interpreter and assured me that there will be one on Tuesday. We were almost in the car when the mother (now a friend) had to go inside to get something she had left in the waiting room. She came back to the car and was grinning. I asked her, "What is so funny?" She said, "Oh, boy. Apparently your reputation precedes you." I asked her what she meant. "I overheard the lady in the office say that you make **** very nervous." I replied, "If she is doing what I suspect, then she better be very nervous."

07-26-2008, 12:34 PM	#144 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	Hmmm...Cloggy is right! I could have made lots of mistakes lipreading and using my speech. Shoot. I guess we should all drop oral education right here and now so all children will learn sign language so when they grow up- they won't be like me.

07-26-2008, 12:57 PM	#145 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	Topic: Ethical issues related to an audiologist's actions and making decisions for a parent; parent's rights to make informed choices Off topic: Insulting posters; Anti-CI/Pro-CI views; Direct communication between posters (please use the PM feature for this purpose); whether or not the OP is lying about the situation or doesn't know what she's talking about; how "far fetched" the "story" seems to you I would hate to ask a mod to close, lock, and delete this thread...but if the insults continue, I will. Let's play nice, folks. And I respectfully ask for all of us to get back on topic.