Swimming with CI...

Cloggy · 04-01-2008, 09:39 PM

(Go to her blog to see some pictures..)
Swimming - With CI - Why Not !!

Lotte & swimming is a great combination. The one minor setback was that she could not wear her CI. We used signs when we were in the pool, but it was clear that for us - and Lotte - that it mattered that she couldn't hear..

Some time ago we came across an excellent suggestion for swimming with the CI... (via CiCircle - see video-link below)
You do need to have the rechargeable batteries for this (as the others need O2 to operate), and since November we are using them. (To our delight.. another success story...)

The solution it to seal them in a plastic bag. (Video on YouTube..)
However... we don't own one of those seal&vacuum machines for the kitchen like shown in the video, and getting one in Norway is not easy - nor cheap.
Dutch as we are, or just creative, ( :-) we found those plastic bags that can be closed with an air ( and water-) tight seal/strip.

So... we put the CI processor and coil in the bag.... closed the seal, put it all in a second bag (just to be sure) and all this went under a swimming cap....
And ... it worked!!

Lotte loved it, and for us, being able to talk to her when she is in the pool reduces a lot of stress....
In the pool she is very happy on her own, but we do see the will to understand the other children. And let's face it, the sounds around the swimming-pool are part of the experience. Same for experiencing sound under water....
And it seems as if she experiemented with it... she would lie in the water, head (processor) under water and just lying there.... very "Zen"....

Here the video that gave us the inspiration

**JClarke** · 04-01-2008, 09:43 PM

I think this is a repost. Correct me if I am misaken

R2D2 · 04-01-2008, 09:47 PM

Are you talking about a zip lock bag? So the coil attached to the magnet on Lotte's head as usual but all inside the zip lock bag and swimming cap? Was it tricky to position it?

neecy · 04-01-2008, 09:51 PM

No its not a repost - he did make another post a while back about swimming, but this one is different.

Cloggy - I have a question - was the sound muffled at all for her? I find it surprising that putting the CI in a watertight bag doesn't stop it from picking up sound!

Cloggy · 04-01-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Are you talking about a zip lock bag? So the coil attached to the magnet on Lotte's head as usual but all inside the zip lock bag and swimming cap? Was it tricky to position it?

Yep...that's the name.. (have to put that in her blog..) all inside. And the coil has enough "power" to stay attached... most of the time. We tested it frequently. (Calling her to see if she could hear.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by neecy

..........Cloggy - I have a question - was the sound muffled at all for her? I find it surprising that putting the CI in a watertight bag doesn't stop it from picking up sound!

No idea what the sound was. We never ask as she can't explain. For her it's natural I guess....

And the processor was behind the swimming-cap and two plastic bags, but she heard fine!

You girls anxious to try it??
Had a look at the video ??

Aleser · 04-02-2008, 05:22 AM

Ziplock bags are far more prone to leaking.. that's a huge risk to be taking, in regards to water damage. Could you try ordering the foodsaver through an international shop and paying the extra postage? Seems a great deal cheaper than repairing the damage.

Cloggy · 04-02-2008, 06:49 PM

You're probably right, but that's why we tested before we used it.
Also, we only used 1 CI. Never the 2.

The ziplocks can actually hold quite some pressure. And we experienced that the bags were never wet on the inside. (Some moisture in the first bag, but never anything in the second one..)

But of course one takes a risk. Then again.... children should be as free as possible to play. Hearing is part of that freedom..

vallee · 04-02-2008, 08:17 PM

I am so afraid of damaging my CIs, I can't do it. I jumped into the pool with my ha on when I was about 12. Since then I am so worried about doing it again.

GarnetTigerMom · 04-02-2008, 09:33 PM

I always take my C.I. off before going swimming.

deafbajagal · 04-02-2008, 09:39 PM

This just blew me away. Wow.

R2D2 · 04-02-2008, 09:40 PM

Same here and it won't change unless Cochlear can come up with a CI that is completely waterproof. Apparently, as a young girl I hated swimming and my mother withdrew me from lessons but I did eventually get to a stage where I felt comfortable with not hearing anything in the water. You get by.

SCBassist · 04-09-2008, 04:51 AM

I experimented with an enlarged balloon, except I used a headband to keep it in place. Also, I used pliers to open it and turned it inside out to avoid getting the powder inside the components, its still a risky thing to do, but luckily, no leaks. The sound quality sounds like hearing with a bucket over your head, but increasing the volume helps. One tip, careful with slamming or splashing your head into water, you will hear one good bass drum to the nerve! LOL

Cloggy · 04-09-2008, 05:11 AM

SCBassist,
First-hand experience - excellent. Thanks !!

And a balloon... good idea!

About splashing.... she didn't seem to be affected... but then.... to her, when she would experience that, it's the normal experience for her....

Etoile · 04-10-2008, 01:28 PM

This is great! I watched the video linked on your blog, too. I am wondering, can she hear under the water? I know water is a good sound conductor (ask a dolphin!) but I think hearing people cannot hear/understand sound under the water. But maybe a CI can! Have you ever tried talking to your daughter while she is under water and then having her come up to say her answer?

Cloggy · 04-10-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etoile

This is great! I watched the video linked on your blog, too. I am wondering, can she hear under the water? I know water is a good sound conductor (ask a dolphin!) but I think hearing people cannot hear/understand sound under the water. But maybe a CI can! Have you ever tried talking to your daughter while she is under water and then having her come up to say her answer?

Have to try it.
She can stay under water quite long.
Mind you, speaking under water is not easy..... Something to do with water entering the mouth....

SCBassist · 04-11-2008, 01:25 AM

In my experience, low frequency sounds can be perceived, higher frequency sounds are next to impossible to hear.

Cloggy · 04-11-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCBassist

In my experience, low frequency sounds can be perceived, higher frequency sounds are next to impossible to hear.

Whales, dolphins and submarines would know everything about that...

Got interested and found some good info:

Quote:

Sound under water travels at a speed that is five times greater than in the air. One might expect that hearing under water is easier but this is not so. The volume does not depend on the speed of sound; rather, it is dependent on the amplitude of sound waves and on the perceptive capabilities of the audial organs. There are two methods of perceiving sound waves; the first being air conductivity (outer audial opening, eardrum or tympanum, audial bones of the middle ear) and the second being bone conductivity (the vibration of the bones of the skull). Air conductivity is prevalent in the air, whereas bone conductivity is prevalent under water. © Bill WoodThis peculiarity is due to the fact that the acoustic resistance of water is close to that of human tissues and the loss of energy for the transition of sound waves into skeletal bones is less under water than it is in the air. Air conductivity under water disappears because the outer audial opening is filled with water and there are no conditions for normal vibration of the eardrum. It has experimentally been proven that bone conductivity is weaker than air conductivity by 40%. Consequently, hearing under water is impeded. The distance within which sound can be heard depends on tonality rather than on the volume of sound. Sounds of greater tonality can be heard at greater distances than those of lower tonality. Sounds that are being emitted under water are usually inaudible above the surface of the water and vice versa.

Quote:

Relying on one’s hearing, it is extremely difficult to orientate oneself under water. In the air, sound reaches one of the ears .00003 seconds earlier than the other. This fact allows the source to be identified within an error of 3?. Because of the high speed of sound under water, it is perceived by both ears virtually simultaneously and the orientation error may reach up to 180?. Bad orientation under water is also due to the prevalent bone conductivity. Sufficient audial orientation is possible to be acquired only after systematic training. After training ceases, however, this ability disappears.

Quote:

The human ear is an extremely sensitive pressure detector in air, but it is less efficient in water. A sound must therefore be more intense in water (+20 dB to 60 dB, SPL) to be heard. Hearing under water is very similar to trying to hear with a conductive hearing loss under surface conditions: a smaller shift in pressure is required to hear sounds at the extreme high and low frequencies, because the ear is not as sensitive at these frequencies. The SPL necessary for effective communication and navigation is a function of the maximum distance between the diver and the source (-3 dB SPL for every doubling of the distance between the source and the measurement point), the frequency of the signal, the ambient noise level and frequency spectrum, type of head covering, experience with diver-communication equipment, and the diver's stress level.

SCBassist · 04-11-2008, 05:24 AM

Norway should have a great deal of experience using sonar to locate Russian SSBNs possibly lurking close to the fjords. This explains the strong amplitudes necessary to "hear" the sound in water. :grin:

lovezebras · 04-11-2008, 11:12 AM

as a past hearie lol..u can hear underwater kinda..like loud noises and if ppl are making noise under the water too u can hear it somewhat..if u put ur head underwater (in a tub) and u speak with mouth out of the water...it sounds very muffled. I can't hear very many noises while im under water anymore lol

drphil · 01-19-2012, 06:50 PM

Good news for the above: Advanced Bionics how has a waterproof Cochlear Implant for swimmers.
As a daily swimmer absolutely no interest in a waterproof implant which one takes off after swimming to "dry off". Not unduly concerned about not hearing the music playing. I have got used to "DEAF swimming" over the last 25 years.

To each their own!

**Phillips** · 01-20-2012, 06:12 PM

I read this and my heartbreak!

CSign · 01-24-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillips

I read this and my heartbreak!

What did your heart break for?

CSign · 01-24-2012, 06:26 PM

Cloggy- that's great that you guys found a solution to Lotte wearing her CI in the water! She looked like she was having a blast. Probably a good idea for her to have only worn one though :-)

Cloggy · 01-25-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSign

Cloggy- that's great that you guys found a solution to Lotte wearing her CI in the water! She looked like she was having a blast. Probably a good idea for her to have only worn one though :-)

She was... and you realise this was 2008?
Nowadays, actually, since that summer, she didn't use them in the water..
But at that age, it worked perfect....

Cloggy · 01-25-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drphil

Good news for the above: Advanced Bionics how has a waterproof Cochlear Implant for swimmers.
As a daily swimmer absolutely no interest in a waterproof implant which one takes off after swimming to "dry off". Not unduly concerned about not hearing the music playing. I have got used to "DEAF swimming" over the last 25 years.

To each their own!

A terrible comment there somewhere:

Quote:

"I think that a waterproof processor is going to revolutionize the industry. The one place our patients are not able to hear is in the water. Being able to now hear in the water is going to change their lives dramatically.”

Joan G. Hewitt, Au.D., Pediatric Audiologist at Project TALK, Inc.
and Pediatric Hearing Specialists, Inc.

".. change their lives dramatically."
Being able to swim with the CI on is not going to accomplish that...

CSign · 01-26-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloggy

She was... and you realise this was 2008?
Nowadays, actually, since that summer, she didn't use them in the water..
But at that age, it worked perfect....

LOL. Yes, I figured those weren't current pictures :-)

AJWSmith · 01-26-2012, 02:34 PM

Sounds are definitely louder for me in the swimming pool

coolgirlspyer90 · 01-27-2012, 09:31 PM

I dont think i would risk my CI being laminated into a bag like the one in the video. I mean I'm willing to take risks. but for something that my parents took money out of their pocket for something so expensive like the CI, i wouldn't do it. I mean, honestly, to me it isn't worth it. I think it would be great to be able to go swimming with your CI on, But for now, i'm just glad that the CI's are water resistant, for now. There are going to be many years until cochlear can figure out how to make the CI's waterproof. And i mean, i asked my family whose hearing what's it like underwater, being able to hear underwater, and they just said it sounds muffled, nothing too special.

drphil · 01-27-2012, 10:16 PM

Cloggy post #25. Not sure what is terrible about my experience of swimming which I do almost every day. Of course I have been swimming since becoming bilateral DEAF December 20, 2006. No change at all

As I am a customer of Advanced Bionics having a Harmony Cochlear Implant since July 2007 and have duly advised them of my thoughts on whether I want info on their new Neptune. Not a surprise- no comment on my above stated thoughts.

Cloggy · 01-28-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drphil

Cloggy post #25. Not sure what is terrible about my experience of swimming which I do almost every day. Of course I have been swimming since becoming bilateral DEAF December 20, 2006. No change at all

As I am a customer of Advanced Bionics having a Harmony Cochlear Implant since July 2007 and have duly advised them of my thoughts on whether I want info on their new Neptune. Not a surprise- no comment on my above stated thoughts.

I have not made a comment about your swimming experiences.. I made a comment about a quote on the website..

I stated in post #25:

Quote:

".. change their lives dramatically." Being able to swim with the CI on is not going to accomplish that...

If that would be the case for you. I stand corrected.

The main thing about children being able to hear in the water is actually being able to communicate with them outside the water. They hop out and start running and in no way you can sign at them, let alone yell at them to stop running..

04-01-2008, 09:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cloggy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 4,710	Swimming with CI... (Go to her blog to see some pictures..) Swimming - With CI - Why Not !! Lotte & swimming is a great combination. The one minor setback was that she could not wear her CI. We used signs when we were in the pool, but it was clear that for us - and Lotte - that it mattered that she couldn't hear.. Some time ago we came across an excellent suggestion for swimming with the CI... (via CiCircle - see video-link below) You do need to have the rechargeable batteries for this (as the others need O2 to operate), and since November we are using them. (To our delight.. another success story...) The solution it to seal them in a plastic bag. (Video on YouTube..) However... we don't own one of those seal&vacuum machines for the kitchen like shown in the video, and getting one in Norway is not easy - nor cheap. Dutch as we are, or just creative, ( :-) we found those plastic bags that can be closed with an air ( and water-) tight seal/strip. So... we put the CI processor and coil in the bag.... closed the seal, put it all in a second bag (just to be sure) and all this went under a swimming cap.... And ... it worked!! Lotte loved it, and for us, being able to talk to her when she is in the pool reduces a lot of stress.... In the pool she is very happy on her own, but we do see the will to understand the other children. And let's face it, the sounds around the swimming-pool are part of the experience. Same for experiencing sound under water.... And it seems as if she experiemented with it... she would lie in the water, head (processor) under water and just lying there.... very "Zen".... Here the video that gave us the inspiration __________________ . The limits of my language mean the limits of my world. . . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951) Information about . . . . . . . . . Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.

04-01-2008, 09:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
JClarke I.T Guru Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 28,139 Blog Entries: 6	I think this is a repost. Correct me if I am misaken __________________ "...shit just got real" BAD BOYS II Nucleus 5 CI - Implanted 6/21/2013 Activated: 7/03/2013 CI Journey blog

04-01-2008, 09:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
R2D2 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,605	Are you talking about a zip lock bag? So the coil attached to the magnet on Lotte's head as usual but all inside the zip lock bag and swimming cap? Was it tricky to position it? __________________ Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006 Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom Cochlear implant myths

04-01-2008, 09:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
neecy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Posts: 1,409	No its not a repost - he did make another post a while back about swimming, but this one is different. Cloggy - I have a question - was the sound muffled at all for her? I find it surprising that putting the CI in a watertight bag doesn't stop it from picking up sound! __________________ Friends are angels that lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

04-02-2008, 05:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
Aleser Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 965	Ziplock bags are far more prone to leaking.. that's a huge risk to be taking, in regards to water damage. Could you try ordering the foodsaver through an international shop and paying the extra postage? Seems a great deal cheaper than repairing the damage. __________________ "She thinks... she can make people do what she wants or needs, what is right, by the sheer force of her own talent, not by forcing them... she can teach them and persuade them... that they'll catch it from her. This is still faith in their rationality, in the omnipotence of reason. The mistake? Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them."

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

04-02-2008, 06:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cloggy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 4,710	You're probably right, but that's why we tested before we used it. Also, we only used 1 CI. Never the 2. The ziplocks can actually hold quite some pressure. And we experienced that the bags were never wet on the inside. (Some moisture in the first bag, but never anything in the second one..) But of course one takes a risk. Then again.... children should be as free as possible to play. Hearing is part of that freedom.. __________________ . The limits of my language mean the limits of my world. . . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951) Information about . . . . . . . . . Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.

04-02-2008, 08:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,216	I am so afraid of damaging my CIs, I can't do it. I jumped into the pool with my ha on when I was about 12. Since then I am so worried about doing it again. coolgirlspyer90 likes this. __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

04-02-2008, 09:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,958	I always take my C.I. off before going swimming. coolgirlspyer90 likes this. __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

04-02-2008, 09:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
deafbajagal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 5,171	This just blew me away. Wow.

04-02-2008, 09:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
R2D2 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 2,605	Same here and it won't change unless Cochlear can come up with a CI that is completely waterproof. Apparently, as a young girl I hated swimming and my mother withdrew me from lessons but I did eventually get to a stage where I felt comfortable with not hearing anything in the water. You get by. __________________ Left ear implanted 9th June 2006 Activated 29th June 2006 Right ear implanted 31st August 2007 Activated 18th September Both Nucleus Freedom Cochlear implant myths

04-09-2008, 04:51 AM	#12 (permalink)
SCBassist Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,355	I experimented with an enlarged balloon, except I used a headband to keep it in place. Also, I used pliers to open it and turned it inside out to avoid getting the powder inside the components, its still a risky thing to do, but luckily, no leaks. The sound quality sounds like hearing with a bucket over your head, but increasing the volume helps. One tip, careful with slamming or splashing your head into water, you will hear one good bass drum to the nerve! LOL

04-09-2008, 05:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
Cloggy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 4,710	SCBassist, First-hand experience - excellent. Thanks !! And a balloon... good idea! About splashing.... she didn't seem to be affected... but then.... to her, when she would experience that, it's the normal experience for her.... __________________ . The limits of my language mean the limits of my world. . . . Ludwig Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951) Information about . . . . . . . . . Lotte Sofie . . . . . . . . . How the ear works . . . . . . . . . Parents info . . . . . . . . . Nonsense/ Myths about CI here or here.

04-10-2008, 01:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
Etoile Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts: 1,184	This is great! I watched the video linked on your blog, too. I am wondering, can she hear under the water? I know water is a good sound conductor (ask a dolphin!) but I think hearing people cannot hear/understand sound under the water. But maybe a CI can! Have you ever tried talking to your daughter while she is under water and then having her come up to say her answer?

04-11-2008, 01:25 AM	#16 (permalink)
SCBassist Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,355	In my experience, low frequency sounds can be perceived, higher frequency sounds are next to impossible to hear.

04-11-2008, 05:24 AM	#18 (permalink)
SCBassist Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,355	Norway should have a great deal of experience using sonar to locate Russian SSBNs possibly lurking close to the fjords. This explains the strong amplitudes necessary to "hear" the sound in water. :grin:

04-11-2008, 11:12 AM	#19 (permalink)
lovezebras Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3,967	as a past hearie lol..u can hear underwater kinda..like loud noises and if ppl are making noise under the water too u can hear it somewhat..if u put ur head underwater (in a tub) and u speak with mouth out of the water...it sounds very muffled. I can't hear very many noises while im under water anymore lol

01-19-2012, 06:50 PM	#20 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,169	Good news for the above: Advanced Bionics how has a waterproof Cochlear Implant for swimmers. As a daily swimmer absolutely no interest in a waterproof implant which one takes off after swimming to "dry off". Not unduly concerned about not hearing the music playing. I have got used to "DEAF swimming" over the last 25 years. To each their own! __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

01-20-2012, 06:12 PM	#21 (permalink)
Phillips Lets ride horses! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Spaceship Posts: 11,170	I read this and my heartbreak! __________________ My journal! http://poochie21.blogspot.com/ *Enjoy life today, Yesterday has past and Tomorrow may never come.*

01-24-2012, 06:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
CSign Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Best Coast, USA Posts: 3,216	Cloggy- that's great that you guys found a solution to Lotte wearing her CI in the water! She looked like she was having a blast. Probably a good idea for her to have only worn one though :-)

01-26-2012, 02:34 PM	#27 (permalink)
AJWSmith Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: live? I'm the walking dead! Posts: 685	Sounds are definitely louder for me in the swimming pool __________________ Born deaf. Profound hearing loss in both ears (90-105dB). Wears Oticon Spirit Zest C SP (Chili) You can also find me on twitter as @AJWSmith and on Google+ as AJW Smith

01-27-2012, 09:31 PM	#28 (permalink)
coolgirlspyer90 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,635	I dont think i would risk my CI being laminated into a bag like the one in the video. I mean I'm willing to take risks. but for something that my parents took money out of their pocket for something so expensive like the CI, i wouldn't do it. I mean, honestly, to me it isn't worth it. I think it would be great to be able to go swimming with your CI on, But for now, i'm just glad that the CI's are water resistant, for now. There are going to be many years until cochlear can figure out how to make the CI's waterproof. And i mean, i asked my family whose hearing what's it like underwater, being able to hear underwater, and they just said it sounds muffled, nothing too special.

01-27-2012, 10:16 PM	#29 (permalink)
drphil Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 4,169	Cloggy post #25. Not sure what is terrible about my experience of swimming which I do almost every day. Of course I have been swimming since becoming bilateral DEAF December 20, 2006. No change at all As I am a customer of Advanced Bionics having a Harmony Cochlear Implant since July 2007 and have duly advised them of my thoughts on whether I want info on their new Neptune. Not a surprise- no comment on my above stated thoughts. __________________ Get Real:Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto -Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

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