CI Robots?

AquaBlue · 03-20-2008, 06:41 PM

Why would some Deaf individuals say that CI patients are robotic? Isn’t CI technology just a way to improve hearing? I mean the person does not change who they are as an individual- their behavior and thinking in the months/years following surgery, right? They don't adapt a more "hearing" type of personality. I would surely think not.

Now, I am not talking about culture but personality. My target here is in the individual and not the group: Personal perspectives and not the accepted values of a culture. I hope I’m clear on that because it’s important to understand prior to replying.

Please keep in mind that I am brand new (kinda) to all this…so forgive me if I caused offense.

AliciaM · 03-20-2008, 07:54 PM

I don't have a ci (so any ci'er correct me if i am wrong) but it's not really robotic but bionic "The cochlear implant is often referred to as a bionic ear" "...works by directly stimulating any functioning auditory nerves inside the cochlea with electrical impulses"

I think it is called bionic because people are being able to hear who haven't heard hardly anything at all or next to nothing these are people who 40-50 years ago even 20 years ago when ci's were not popular yet had to live with their deafness. Now some people don't mind living with deafness and some do. Cochlear Implant surgery is able to bypass wat was not possible before. The ci is a sort of mechanical thing in your head that let's you hear even tho your deaf! wat i said may be confusing..but that's my take on it...lol

Drew's Dad · 03-20-2008, 08:41 PM

From stories I've heard from others, some people do change their personality after getting cochlear implant(s). Sometimes they stop associating with their other Deaf friends and can take on an air of self-importance.

I find that very sad and relatively disgusting, but I have heard of it happening. It must be something with some people where being able to hear makes them in some way want to stop being deaf, or just associate with hearing people when they couldn't before.

I don't know why it happens, but I have heard of it happening.

As far as wondering if a CI makes you robotic or less human, I think that's silly - having a CI doesn't change your personality, but some act different once getting it.

AquaBlue · 03-20-2008, 09:30 PM

I have heard it being said, by the deaf, to be "rebotic" and not "bionic." Of that I am sure.

In fact in the documentary, Sound and Fury, one deaf woman (among other deaf people) says that CI technology would only create robots. Review the video and see for yourself. Robotic, not bionic is the word used.

Drew's Dad · 03-20-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaBlue

I have heard it being said, by the deaf, to be "rebotic" and not "bionic." Of that I am sure.

In fact in the documentary, Sound and Fury, one deaf woman (among other deaf people) says that CI technology would only create robots. Review the video and see for yourself. Robotic, not bionic is the word used.

I've heard the term "robotic" used as well. It's just not an accurate description. I think that's what liltalia is trying to say.

vallee · 03-20-2008, 10:29 PM

I have come back a few times before I posted. I don't feel like a robot. My personality has not changed, except my self-confidence and esteem.

The only comment I get is about my speech and my confidences. Someone said I have a glitter in my eye.

shel90 · 03-20-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaBlue

Why would some Deaf individuals say that CI patients are robotic? Isn’t CI technology just a way to improve hearing? I mean the person does not change who they are as an individual- their behavior and thinking in the months/years following surgery, right? They don't adapt a more "hearing" type of personality. I would surely think not.

Now, I am not talking about culture but personality. My target here is in the individual and not the group: Personal perspectives and not the accepted values of a culture. I hope I’m clear on that because it’s important to understand prior to replying.

Please keep in mind that I am brand new (kinda) to all this…so forgive me if I caused offense.

I have met some people who changed after they got their CIs. They have stated that they didnt need Deaf culture and the Deaf community anymore cuz they are part of the hearing world now. It does happen to some people after getting their CIs...they change. Those people that turned their backs to us were of course, called "robots" even by other CI users who still consider themselves a part of the Deaf community. I find it odd.

I dont call them robots....I just think it is sad that those who turned their backs to their deaf friends just like those deaf people who turned their backs on their friend who got CIs. The world isnt perfect, oh well.

authentic · 03-20-2008, 10:44 PM

I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body.
no bashing please

shel90 · 03-20-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body.
no bashing please

U got a good point...

no bashing here too pls

AquaBlue · 03-20-2008, 10:47 PM

I guess that this the core question: Does CI technology truly (in all earnestly) bring a real danger to the Deaf community: when a few (minority) of its CI members reject the culture?

Drew's Dad · 03-20-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body.
no bashing please

You might consider a CI to be a robotic device, but a human with a CI does not thereby become a robot. You might call them a cyborg, but calling them a robot would not meet the definition of the word.

For instance, "Robocop" (from the movie) was not a robot, it was a cyborg. Similarly, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker could be called cyborgs, but not robots. R2D2 was a robot, and C3P0 was an android.

(I also noticed you said a heart/kidney transplant makes someone a robot? I don't understand that one.)

rick48 · 03-20-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body.
no bashing please

I have a filling in one of my teeth from a cavity, does that make me robotic too? Also, I have six screws in my hand as a result of a severe multiple fractures, does that make me robotic also?

What about breast implants, would they make a woman robotic or fembotic a la Austin Powers?

uacardinal · 03-20-2008, 10:57 PM

Are you there cyborg?

vallee · 03-20-2008, 11:05 PM

[QUOTE=AquaBlue;942447]I guess that this the core question: Does CI technology truly (in all earnestly) bring a real danger to the Deaf community: when a few (minority) of its CI members reject the culture?

QUOTE]

Do you realize that the answer depends on the person? I can say no, and another person will disagree with me. I don't believe it does, but there are alot of variables.

My question is this How can the Deaf Community include all person with a hearing loss without isolating anyone? And how can all persons with a hearing loss, for example, deaf, hard of hearing, hearing aid wearers or CI wearers be respectful of individuals within the community without disrespecting the core of the Deaf Culture or each other?

authentic · 03-20-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

I have a filling in one of my teeth from a cavity, does that make me robotic too? Also, I have six screws in my hand as a result of a severe multiple fractures, does that make me robotic also?

What about breast implants, would they make a woman robotic or fembotic a la Austin Powers?

Breast Implant is not robotic, because they do not make breast to move, they just added something to make it look bigger.

My question is:

What do you call this?

I call this as robotic ankle, don't you disagree?

authentic · 03-20-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uacardinal

Are you there cyborg?

That was not necessary.

shel90 · 03-20-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

Breast Implant is not robotic, because they do not make breast to move, they just added something to make it look bigger.

My question is:

What do you call this?

I call this as robotic ankle, don't you disagree?

I dont know why but I laughed at your post. I dont know what was humorous about it but I bust out laughing. LOL!

No offense to anyone..ok?

sr171soars · 03-20-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body.
no bashing please

Er...I disagree.

Taking a look at dictionary.com here is the definition of a "robot"

ro·bot /ˈroʊbət, -bɒt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[roh-buht, -bot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine tasks on command.
2. a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner, usually subject to another's will; automaton.
3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically with humanlike skill.
–adjective
4. operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline terminals.
[Origin: < Czech, coined by Karel Čapek in the play R.U.R. (1920) from the base robot-, as in robota compulsory labor, robotník peasant owing such labor]

There is a distinct difference in what robot means and what bionic means. Having man-made parts in one's body is having bionic parts and makes one bionic. See below for that definition...

From Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary

Main Entry: bi·on·ic
Pronunciation: bI-'än-ik
Function: adjective
1 : of or relating to bionics
2 a : having natural biological capability or performance enhanced by or as if by electronic or electromechanical devices <our future may lie not with the bionic man but with natural man —Susan Schiefelbein> b : comprising or made up of artificial body parts that enhance or substitute for a natural biological capability <a bionic heart>

Nobody with a CI, artificial knee, or any other man-made part in their body can be called a robot by definition. They have bionic parts that mimic the natural body parts. If anything, they can only be called a bionic person or better a cyborg. That doesn't make them any less human. The body is just one component to what makes up a human being.

There have been fascinating discussions elsewhere about the nature of being human as pertains to bionic parts. In particular, what percentage of bionic parts in a person makes him no longer human. Micheal Chorost brings this up in his book "Rebuilt".

I take the tack as long as the personality, will, and soul of a person is not altered by these parts, the person is human.

vallee · 03-20-2008, 11:20 PM

sr171soars, good posting much better than I could say.

I don't like that comment with the picture. That is my opinion...

Drew's Dad · 03-20-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by authentic

Breast Implant is not robotic, because they do not make breast to move, they just added something to make it look bigger.

My question is:

What do you call this?

I call this as robotic ankle, don't you disagree?

Actually, no, I would agree. It looks like a robotic ankle. However, I wouldn't call the person (assuming there is more than just legs attached) a robot. Perhaps a cyborg, by definition.

shel90 · 03-20-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallee

sr171soars, good posting much better than I could say.

I don't like that comment with the picture. That is my opinion...

I gotta to be honest with you, that prothestic foot reminds me of a robot. Not saying that it makes the person a robot but by looking at it, I am reminded of a robot.

The OP brought up this question on why do some people in the Deaf community call people who have CIs robots so it is nice to discuss it here and learn from each other. I think this can be an interesting debate...

vallee · 03-20-2008, 11:41 PM

I agree it is an interesting debate. As someone who wears cis, robot just does not feel right. I don't feel like a robot, don't talk like a robot or walk like one, or even hear like one.

I guess it goes with what we view ourselves and the tools we use. I view my cis as technology just like my hearing aid. It just works better on me.

authentic · 03-20-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

There have been fascinating discussions elsewhere about the nature of being human as pertains to bionic parts. In particular, what percentage of bionic parts in a person makes him no longer human.

I take the tack as long as the personality, will, and soul of a person is not altered by these parts, the person is human.

This is one of example.

authentic · 03-20-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vallee

I agree it is an interesting debate. As someone who wears cis, robot just does not feel right. I don't feel like a robot, don't talk like a robot or walk like one, or even hear like one.

I guess it goes with what we view ourselves and the tools we use. I view my cis as technology just like my hearing aid. It just works better on me.

Have you skydiving with your ci on?
Have you went to scuba diving (30 feet or deeper) with your ci on?

Texan Guy · 03-20-2008, 11:45 PM

Guys, guys, take it easy with Authenic, and I'm a CI-Borg, too. I don't mind if I'm being called a robot, half-robot, or cyborg. I've always find this funny if I'm a half-robot and half-human.

sr171soars · 03-21-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texan Guy

Guys, guys, take it easy with Authenic, and I'm a CI-Borg, too. I don't mind if I'm being called a robot, half-robot, or cyborg. I've always find this funny if I'm a half-robot and half-human.

It's just an interesting discussion. I don't think anybody is all riled up about it.

As for calling oneself a robot, that is your business. If one is going to call me anything, I'll accept being a cyborg but not a robot. I much prefer to be "accurate" in what terms I use lest I confuse everybody around me. That is what communication is all about...eh?

Buffalo · 03-21-2008, 12:05 AM

When I read this thread about "robot", I think of their behavior rather than the CI in their head. You know, one who kowtows to the hearing people - doing what they want him/her to do - be a hearing, not Deaf. I can understand why some Deaf people would call them robots.

I don't call them robots. I don't even call them borgs right in their faces. If they think they are too good for the Deaf community, they should leave. If they opt to stick around, I will study them to see how much the CI work for them.

jillio · 03-21-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew's Dad

From stories I've heard from others, some people do change their personality after getting cochlear implant(s). Sometimes they stop associating with their other Deaf friends and can take on an air of self-importance.

I find that very sad and relatively disgusting, but I have heard of it happening. It must be something with some people where being able to hear makes them in some way want to stop being deaf, or just associate with hearing people when they couldn't before.

I don't know why it happens, but I have heard of it happening.

As far as wondering if a CI makes you robotic or less human, I think that's silly - having a CI doesn't change your personality, but some act different once getting it.

Well said.

jillio · 03-21-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I gotta to be honest with you, that prothestic foot reminds me of a robot. Not saying that it makes the person a robot but by looking at it, I am reminded of a robot.

The OP brought up this question on why do some people in the Deaf community call people who have CIs robots so it is nice to discuss it here and learn from each other. I think this can be an interesting debate...

Actually, that prosthetic foot does use robotics in its design. So you were on target shel!

Boult · 03-21-2008, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

Er...I disagree.

Taking a look at dictionary.com here is the definition of a "robot"

ro·bot /ˈroʊbət, -bɒt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[roh-buht, -bot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine tasks on command.
2. a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner, usually subject to another's will; automaton.
3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically with humanlike skill.
–adjective
4. operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline terminals.
[Origin: < Czech, coined by Karel Čapek in the play R.U.R. (1920) from the base robot-, as in robota compulsory labor, robotník peasant owing such labor]

There is a distinct difference in what robot means and what bionic means. Having man-made parts in one's body is having bionic parts and makes one bionic. See below for that definition...

From Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary

Main Entry: bi·on·ic
Pronunciation: bI-'än-ik
Function: adjective
1 : of or relating to bionics
2 a : having natural biological capability or performance enhanced by or as if by electronic or electromechanical devices <our future may lie not with the bionic man but with natural man —Susan Schiefelbein> b : comprising or made up of artificial body parts that enhance or substitute for a natural biological capability <a bionic heart>

Nobody with a CI, artificial knee, or any other man-made part in their body can be called a robot by definition. They have bionic parts that mimic the natural body parts. If anything, they can only be called a bionic person or better a cyborg. That doesn't make them any less human. The body is just one component to what makes up a human being.

There have been fascinating discussions elsewhere about the nature of being human as pertains to bionic parts. In particular, what percentage of bionic parts in a person makes him no longer human. Micheal Chorost brings this up in his book "Rebuilt".

I take the tack as long as the personality, will, and soul of a person is not altered by these parts, the person is human.

+1 good posting!

03-20-2008, 06:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
AquaBlue Go Away I'm Sleeping. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,677	CI Robots? Why would some Deaf individuals say that CI patients are robotic? Isn’t CI technology just a way to improve hearing? I mean the person does not change who they are as an individual- their behavior and thinking in the months/years following surgery, right? They don't adapt a more "hearing" type of personality. I would surely think not. Now, I am not talking about culture but personality. My target here is in the individual and not the group: Personal perspectives and not the accepted values of a culture. I hope I’m clear on that because it’s important to understand prior to replying. Please keep in mind that I am brand new (kinda) to all this…so forgive me if I caused offense. __________________ My Facebook Reading List Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to. - Mark Twain

03-20-2008, 07:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
AliciaM Midge Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 1,590	I don't have a ci (so any ci'er correct me if i am wrong) but it's not really robotic but bionic "The cochlear implant is often referred to as a bionic ear" "...works by directly stimulating any functioning auditory nerves inside the cochlea with electrical impulses" I think it is called bionic because people are being able to hear who haven't heard hardly anything at all or next to nothing these are people who 40-50 years ago even 20 years ago when ci's were not popular yet had to live with their deafness. Now some people don't mind living with deafness and some do. Cochlear Implant surgery is able to bypass wat was not possible before. The ci is a sort of mechanical thing in your head that let's you hear even tho your deaf! wat i said may be confusing..but that's my take on it...lol __________________ Alicia Phonak versatas Severe loss deaf Ears are cheap. It's what's between the ears that counts

03-20-2008, 08:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Drew's Dad Drew Activated 6/28/2007 Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 226	From stories I've heard from others, some people do change their personality after getting cochlear implant(s). Sometimes they stop associating with their other Deaf friends and can take on an air of self-importance. I find that very sad and relatively disgusting, but I have heard of it happening. It must be something with some people where being able to hear makes them in some way want to stop being deaf, or just associate with hearing people when they couldn't before. I don't know why it happens, but I have heard of it happening. As far as wondering if a CI makes you robotic or less human, I think that's silly - having a CI doesn't change your personality, but some act different once getting it. __________________ Drew received simultaneous, bilateral cochlear implants at 8 months of age. Read his story here! Visit Drew on Facebook! Send Love and Start A Home Business - Send Cards with SendOutCards

03-20-2008, 09:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
AquaBlue Go Away I'm Sleeping. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,677	I have heard it being said, by the deaf, to be "rebotic" and not "bionic." Of that I am sure. In fact in the documentary, Sound and Fury, one deaf woman (among other deaf people) says that CI technology would only create robots. Review the video and see for yourself. Robotic, not bionic is the word used. __________________ My Facebook Reading List Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to. - Mark Twain

03-20-2008, 10:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,212	I have come back a few times before I posted. I don't feel like a robot. My personality has not changed, except my self-confidence and esteem. The only comment I get is about my speech and my confidences. Someone said I have a glitter in my eye. __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

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03-20-2008, 10:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
authentic vrai vainqueur Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: DC! Posts: 3,164	I have many friends who use CI, etc. but sorry to say this I do still consider CI as robot, because CI is not natural body. It is man-made material, and put it in the human body is robot. Same with heart/kidney transplant, pacemaker, etc. is robotic material to assist the human body. no bashing please __________________

03-20-2008, 10:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
AquaBlue Go Away I'm Sleeping. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,677	I guess that this the core question: *Does CI technology truly (in all earnestly) bring a real* danger to the Deaf community: when a few (minority) of its CI members reject the culture? __________________ My Facebook Reading List Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to.** - Mark Twain

03-20-2008, 10:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
uacardinal Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1	Are you there cyborg?

03-20-2008, 11:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,212	[QUOTE=AquaBlue;942447]I guess that this the core question: *Does CI technology truly (in all earnestly) bring a real* danger to the Deaf community: when a few (minority) of its CI members reject the culture?** QUOTE] Do you realize that the answer depends on the person? I can say no, and another person will disagree with me. I don't believe it does, but there are alot of variables. My question is this How can the Deaf Community include all person with a hearing loss without isolating anyone? And how can all persons with a hearing loss, for example, deaf, hard of hearing, hearing aid wearers or CI wearers be respectful of individuals within the community without disrespecting the core of the Deaf Culture or each other? __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

03-20-2008, 11:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,212	sr171soars, good posting much better than I could say. I don't like that comment with the picture. That is my opinion... __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

03-20-2008, 11:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
vallee Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,212	I agree it is an interesting debate. As someone who wears cis, robot just does not feel right. I don't feel like a robot, don't talk like a robot or walk like one, or even hear like one. I guess it goes with what we view ourselves and the tools we use. I view my cis as technology just like my hearing aid. It just works better on me. __________________ Right and Left Implanted July 19, 2007 Activated August 9, 2007 Both Advanced Bionics Harmony

03-20-2008, 11:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
Texan Guy Chief of Secret Police Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 2,199	Guys, guys, take it easy with Authenic, and I'm a CI-Borg, too. I don't mind if I'm being called a robot, half-robot, or cyborg. I've always find this funny if I'm a half-robot and half-human. __________________

03-21-2008, 12:05 AM	#27 (permalink)
Buffalo Anobium Pertinax Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,473	When I read this thread about "robot", I think of their behavior rather than the CI in their head. You know, one who kowtows to the hearing people - doing what they want him/her to do - be a hearing, not Deaf. I can understand why some Deaf people would call them robots. I don't call them robots. I don't even call them borgs right in their faces. If they think they are too good for the Deaf community, they should leave. If they opt to stick around, I will study them to see how much the CI work for them. __________________ It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem. - Gilbert Chesterton

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